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Old 08-03-2018, 07:31 PM   #1
blackyblue
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Default Scotland 39 England 40 (79 wars fought)

Here is a statistic i bet you are unaware of.

England the greatest army in the world.

Or so they say.

Well if it were a football league table, below is what it would look like unofficially

unofficially, including civil wars
(1) England p79 w40 L39 pts120
(2) Scotland p79 w39 L40 pts117

Scotlands most amazing victory over England came in 1514 when after Scotlands border region adult population had been wiped out in the previous years war at Flodden, all that was left to defend the Scottish borders were boys and girls not fully grown, so the English tried to take advantage of this and began raiding the Scottish borders until the children came to arms and went to fight the English army, and the Scottish youths WON!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hornshole

Amazingly, up until the Crown and Jewels in 1575 Scotland had won seven more battles than England, leading 35-28, and that was officially the full-time result, as Scotland and England finished being proper recognised seperate country's after this date and so Scottish factions that still opposed British rule were no longer considered a legitimate army but instead loyalists and rebels, and also they were loyalists and rebels officially fighting Brits, not English
But i have included the civil wars between officially recognised British army and unofficial loyalists just to keep the English happy.

(Before the Crown and Jewels)
596 Battle of Raith - Decisive Angle victory - Sco 0-1 Eng
671 Battle of Two Rivers - Northumbrian victory - Sco 0-2 Eng
20 May 685 Battle of Dun Nechtain - Pictish victory - Sco 1-2 Eng
937 Battle of Brunanburh - English victory - Sco 1-3 Eng
1018 Battle of Carham - Scottish victory - Sco 2-3 Eng
13 Nov 1093 1st Battle of Alnwick - English victory - Sco 2-4 Eng
10 June 1138 Battle of Clitheroe - Scottish victory - Sco 3-4 Eng
22 Aug 1138 Battle of the Standard - English victory - Sco 3-5 Eng
13 July 1174 2nd Battle of Alnwick - Scot's king becomes POW - Sco 3-6 Eng
30 March 1296 Capture of Berwick - English victory - Sco 3-7 Eng
27 April 1296 Battle of Dunbar - Decisive English victory - Sco 3-8 Eng
June 1297 Raid of Scone - Decisive Scottish victory - Sco 4-8 Eng
11 Sep 1297 Battle of Stirling Bridge - Scottish victory - Sco 5-8 Eng
22 July 1298 Battle of Falkirk - English victory - Sco 5-9 Eng
24 Feb 1303 Battle of Roslin - Scottish victory - Sco 6-9 Eng
1304 Action at Happrew - English victory - Sco 6-10 Eng
24 July 1304 Sieges of Stirling Castle - English victory - Sco 6-11 Eng
Sep 1304 Action at Earnside - Wallace defeated - Sco 6-12 Eng
19 June 1306 Battle of Methven - English victory - Sco 6-13 Eng
March 1307 Battle of Glen Trool - Scottish victory - Sco 7-13 Eng
10 May 1307 Battle of Loudoun Hill - Scottish victory - Sco 8-13 Eng
19 Feb 1314 Siege of Roxburgh Castle - Scottish victory - Sco 9-13 Eng
24 June 1314 Battle of Bannockburn - Decisive Scots victory - Sco 10-13 Eng
10 Sep 1315 Battle of Connor - Scottish victory - Sco 11-13 Eng
1315 Siege of Carlisle - English victory - Sco 11-14 Eng
Nov 1315 Battle of Kells - Scottish victory - Sco 12-14 Eng
1316 Battle of Skaithmuir - Scottish victory - Sco 13-14 Eng
26 Jan 1316 Battle of Skerries - Scottish victory - Sco 14-14 Eng
14 Oct 1318 Battle of Faughart - English victory - Sco 14-15 Eng
April 1318 Capture of Berwick - Scottish victory - Sco 15-15 Eng
20 Sep 1319 Battle of Myton - Scottish victory - Sco 16-15 Eng
16 March 1322 Battle of Boroughbridge - English victory - Sco 16-16 Eng
14 Oct 1322 Battle of Old Byland - Scottish victory - Sco 17-16 Eng
3–4 Aug 1327 Battle of Stanhope Park - Scottish victory - Sco 18-16 Eng
6 Aug 1332 Battle of Wester Kinghorn - English victory - Sco 18-17 Eng
11 Aug 1332 Battle of Dupplin Moor - Decisive English victory Sco 18-18 Eng
16 Dec 1332 Battle of Annan - Decisive De Bruce victory - Sco 19-18 Eng
25 March 1333 Battle of Dornock - English victory - Sco 19-19 Eng
19 July 1333 Battle of Halidon Hill - Decisive English victory - Sco 19-20 Eng
30 July 1335 Battle of Boroughmuir - Scottish victory - Sco 20-20 Eng
30 Nov 1335 Battle of Culblean - Decisive De Bruce victory - Sco 21-20 Eng
17 Oct 1346 Battle of Neville's Cross - English victory - Sco 21-21 Eng
1355 Battle of Nesbit Moor - Decisive Scottish victory - Sco 22-21 Eng
1372 Battle of Duns - Decisive Scottish victory - Sco 23-21 Eng
19 Aug 1388 Battle of Otterburn - Decisive Scottish victory - Sco 24-21 Eng
22 June 1402 2nd Battle of Nesbit Moor - Decisive English Victory - Sco 24-22 Eng
14 Sep 1402 Battle of Homildon Hill - Decisive English victory - Sco 24-23 Eng
1415 Battle of Yeavering - English Victory - Sco 24-24 Eng
10 Sep 1436 Battle of Piperdean - Decisive Scottish victory - Sco 25-24 Eng
23 Oct 1448 Battle of Sark - Decisive Scottish victory - Sco 26-24 Eng
3 Aug 1460 Capture of Roxburgh - Limited Scottish victory - Sco 27-24 Eng
24 Aug 1482 Capture of Berwick - Decisive English victory - Sco 27-25 Eng
22 July 1484 Battle of Lochmaben Fair - Scottish victory - Sco 28-25 Eng
9 Sep 1513 Battle of Flodden - English victory - Sco 28-26 Eng
1514 The Battle of Hornshole - a Scottish border youth team consisting of boy's and girls from Hawick formed to defend the Scottish borders from English raiders after the adult population in the borders had been eradicated the year previous at Flodden, and the boy's brigade and girl guides pulled off an amazing victory over the English army - Sco 29-26 Eng
24 Aug 1542 Battle of Haddon Rig - Significant Scottish Victory - Sco 30-26 Eng
24 Nov 1542 Battle of Solway Moss - Decisive English victory - Sco 30-27 Eng
7 May 1544 Burning of Edinburgh - Scots defended Edinburgh castle successfully Sco 31-27 Eng
27 Feb 1545 Battle of Ancrum Moor - Decisive Scottish victory - Sco 32-27 Eng
10 Sep 1547 Battle of Pinkie Cleugh - Decisive English victory - Sco 32-28 Eng
1549 Siege of Haddington - Scottish victory - Sco 33-28 Eng
1550 Broughty Castle - Scottish victory - Sco 34-28 Eng
7 July 1575 Raid of the Redeswire - Scottish victory - Sco 35-28 Eng
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nd_and_England

(Scotland aka rebels v England aka Britain after Crown and Jewels civil war)
1640 Battle of Newburn Ford - Scottish victory - Sco 1-0 Eng (36-28)
1650 Battle of Invercharron - Victory for Oliver Cromwell - Sco 1-1 Eng (36-29)
1650 Battle of Dunbar - Oliver Cromwell conquered lowland Scotland - Sco 1-2 Eng (36-30)
1651 Battle of Pitreavie - The end of Scottish kings - Sco 1-3 Eng (36-31)
1651 Battle of Dundee - Comprehensive Cromwell victory - Sco 1-4 Eng (36-32)
1651 Battle of Inverkeithing - Comprehensive Cromwell victory - Sco 1-5 Eng (36-33)
1679 Battle of Drumclog - Scottish loyalist victory - Sco 2-5 Eng (37-33)
1679 Battle of Bothwell Bridge - English victory - Sco 2-6 Eng (37-34)
1689 Battle of Airds Moss - Victory for English army - Sco 2-7 Eng (37-35)
1689 Battle of Killiecrankie - Jacobite uprising begins - Sco 3-7 Eng (38-35)
1689 Battle of Dunkeld - Jacobite victory - Sco 4-7 Eng (39-35)
1692 Glencoe Massacre - The Campbells turned traitor and defeated the Macdonalds on behalf of the English - Sco 4-8 Eng (39-36)
1715 Battle of Sheriffmuir - English morale boosting victory - Sco 4-9 Eng (39-37)
1719 Battle of Glenshiel - Jacobites defeated - Sco 4-10 Eng (39-38)
1746 Battle of Culloden - Decisive English victory - Sco 4-11 Eng (39-39)
1882 Battle of the Braes - Last ever Scotland v England war faught between Westminster and remnants of Scottish clansmen in the highlands which England decisively won - Sco 4-12 Eng (39-40).
http://skyelander.orgfree.com/sbattles.html


Official full time result not including civil wars faught by rebel Scots against British army
(1) Scotland p63 w35 L28 pts105
(2) England p63 w28 L35 pts 84


If we include the civil wars against Scottish rebel factions, and then assume the British army as the English army, then England obtained their 40-39 victory at the very last ever battle between England and Scotland
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Last edited by blackyblue; 08-03-2018 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 09-03-2018, 06:53 AM   #2
hokuspokus
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Excellent.

What is the score if we exclude any victories that include mercenaries or foreign
national soldiers? For example the seige of Haddington which had French soldiers
fighting.
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:26 AM   #3
iamawaveofthesea
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I don't know if the battelines were always that clearly defined

Scotland hasn't always been a homogenous thing with there being cultural differences between the highlands and the lowlands

Also there were battles that were not decisive and saw both sides retreating and claiming victory like at sherrifmuir which you have down as an english victory

Then i don't think the highlanders could call the battle of dunkeld a victory as they attacked a hanoverian garrison in the town but were repulsed so not sure that was a 'scottish' victory

Also in some battles there were both english and scots on the same side....its not always so clear cut
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Last edited by iamawaveofthesea; 09-03-2018 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:13 AM   #4
blackyblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
I don't know if the battelines were always that clearly defined

Scotland hasn't always been a homogenous thing with there being cultural differences between the highlands and the lowlands

Also there were battles that were not decisive and saw both sides retreating and claiming victory like at sherrifmuir which you have down as an english victory

Then i don't think the highlanders could call the battle of dunkeld a victory as they attacked a hanoverian garrison in the town but were repulsed so not sure that was a 'scottish' victory

Also in some battles there were both english and scots on the same side....its not always so clear cut
True, i handed the victory to England at Sherrifmuir because 4000 English/Brits drawing with 10,000 Rebels is a victory for England more than Scotland.
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Last edited by blackyblue; 09-03-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:52 AM   #5
iamawaveofthesea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackyblue View Post
True, i handed the victory to England at Sherrifmuir because 4000 English/Brits drawing with 10,000 Rebels is a victory for England more than Scotland.
ok but they weren't 'rebels'

they didn't acknowledge the suzereignety of the hanoverian kings

so it was a rising not a rebellion aimed at throwing off the attempted subjugation by a foreign ruler
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