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Old 03-01-2011, 06:28 PM   #41
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...aren't we in an invaded planet right now?
you're the author, you tell me.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:40 PM   #42
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you're the author, you tell me.
Look around you, does this look like a planet where everyone is free to
live in peace and harmony? Isn't it plausible that the few who rule us and
make life miserable, might have come from another place than Earth?

There is physical evidence that aliens have come here, in the form of the
sumerian tablets. Or do you think an indian 5000 years ago would have
the imagination to carve an alien in a spaceship into the wall?

Last edited by zsymon; 03-01-2011 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:50 PM   #43
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...Or do you think an indian 5000 years ago would have the imagination to carve an alien in a spaceship into the wall?
well, you believe you're tormented by astral demons so why shouldn't an indian from 5000 years ago have a similarly vivid imagination ?
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:00 PM   #44
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well, you believe you're tormented by astral demons so why shouldn't an indian from 5000 years ago have a similarly vivid imagination ?
That argument is not sufficient even for the skeptic scientists who
investigated the sumerian stone tablets. Being a skeptic does not
mean simply dismissing everything that doesn't fit your beliefs.

Last edited by zsymon; 03-01-2011 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:07 PM   #45
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As Creation evolves, energies become more advanced and complex and life
becomes more interesting, what is there not to like? What do you want to
do as an eternal spirit, sit on your butt all day and ponder on the Universe,
or get deep and dirty into invaded planets to bring freedom and release?

Duality and polarization is what makes life as an eternal being interesting
and worth it, it brings thrill and excitement, motivation and learning. Sure
we do suffer when we enter an invaded planet to bring freedom, but that
is only temporarily, what we get out of such an experience, is so much
more than we can imagine right now.
Have you achieved freedom yourself, that you can give it to others?
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:11 PM   #46
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Have you achieved freedom yourself, that you can give it to others?
Others will work to grant us spiritual freedom, so we on our part can work
to grant others spiritual freedom. That is why we come to an invaded planet,
to give freedom to those that were there from the beginning and who got
trapped by the invaders.

I have been on Earth at least since 77.000BC, I don't have details from
before that. I got trapped here, badly blocked and wounded, but someone
has come to give me freedom.. I am almost free now, and as soon as I am,
I will start working to give others the freedom I have been given.

Last edited by zsymon; 03-01-2011 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:28 PM   #47
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I don't know about all the philosophical tenets of duality, like "you have to have dark to have light, etc.". I just think it's lame when people twist these concepts into an excuse to revel in their own darkness, as if they are doing themselves or others a favor. Like people who want to be vampires and goths say it's okay because of duality. I would guess this is an improper use of the concept.

You don't have to have satanism to have christianity (as some people assert) but it would seem we had christianity before we had satansim...in this way, "light" came before the "dark"...did the darkness have to infiltrate for people to appreciate or fully comprehend the light? I don't think so. I think this way is not giving people enough credit for choosing their path (light or dark), if it is in this fixed system of duality.

If you are going to say that people are born light or dark and there is nothing they can do about it, then that pretty much rules out choice and opportunity for spiritual evolution.

I don't know about the one creators or two. I do that think entire civilizations exist without evil/darkness, and there doesn't necessarily have to be a corresponding civilization that exists without good/light, although there may be some that do.

Last edited by biblegirl; 03-01-2011 at 08:05 PM. Reason: for clarity
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:30 PM   #48
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No, it wasn't an obervation, it was an accusation. Because there is no way
you can possibly know if I wanted to get your point or not, you can't read
my mind.

Words have energy behind them, and that energy directly affects people.

If you insult someone then the energy of those words will harm the person
you are insulting. You can't insult someone and then tell them it's their own
fault for choosing to let the insult affect them. That's like punching someone
in the face and telling them it's their own fault for choosing to have their
nose break from the punch, it just doesn't work that way.

Not saying you insulted me, just providing an example.

If you insult someone and the person is hurt, then that is your responsibility,
not the other one's. The person didn't choose to let the insult affect him, it
just happened. We usually don't have the choice to let someone affect us
or not, it just happens that way.

The more we evolve the more we can control what affects us, but you can
not blame someone for not being evolved enough to prevent your insult from
affecting them. If you insult someone and he is hurt, then that's your fault,
your responsibility.

You are not the only one who seems to think this way.. many people here
believe that we are responsible for everything that happens in their lives,
but when they insult someone then they shift the blame to their victim and
the belief goes out the window.
No, it was an observation based on your unconscious behavior and tendency to blindspot yourself from anything and everything which doesn't fit your model of "how things are" or "should be" to you. If I wanted to insult you, then I can assure you that you would have known about it.

Why are you always determined to play the victim?

The only way theres any "someone" or "something else" controlling what goes on within you is if you've convinced yourself that there is -and even thats still you.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:30 PM   #49
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Being a skeptic does not
mean simply dismissing everything that doesn't fit your beliefs.
i don't believe in anything.
beliefs are the problem. we don't need them.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:34 PM   #50
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i don't believe in anything.
beliefs are the problem. we don't need them.
Hmm, do you make a difference between knowledge and beliefs?

Between scientific theories and religious faiths? What do you
feel is the difference between them, and how do you think we
can make discoveries without believing things to be possible?

Many scientific theories are nothing but that, theories, but if
a scientist doesn't believe in them, he won't try to prove them
or find evidence for them.. and an important discovery might
never be made.

Isn't belief and faith important for mankind to progress socially,
physically and spiritually?

Last edited by zsymon; 03-01-2011 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:48 PM   #51
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No, it was an observation based on your unconscious behavior and tendency to blindspot yourself from anything and everything which doesn't fit your model of "how things are" or "should be" to you. If I wanted to insult you, then I can assure you that you would have known about it.

Why are you always determined to play the victim?

The only way theres any "someone" or "something else" controlling what goes on within you is if you've convinced yourself that there is -and even thats still you.
thats a tough mastery right there. Reprogramming ourselves to our omni receiver is tough.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:54 PM   #52
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Do you believe that one can be born what most would call evil then?

I do not mean the exception, I mean the rule.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:56 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
Others will work to grant us spiritual freedom, so we on our part can work
to grant others spiritual freedom. That is why we come to an invaded planet,
to give freedom to those that were there from the beginning and who got
trapped by the invaders.

I have been on Earth at least since 77.000BC, I don't have details from
before that. I got trapped here, badly blocked and wounded, but someone
has come to give me freedom.. I am almost free now, and as soon as I am,
I will start working to give others the freedom I have been given.
Jolly good, I hope your total freedom is not far off then.

It´s just that I´ve grown very disillusioned about the idea of helping others.
When I was younger I had high hopes and ideals like you. But I found out that in spite of all my good intentions, that it is indeed very difficult to help, because often people don´t want to be helped, and/or they are far more interested in dragging you down in their own quagmire so they can step on you.

Sorry if this sounds pessimistic, but I guess that´s what I am.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:24 PM   #54
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Do you believe that one can be born what most would call evil then?

I do not mean the exception, I mean the rule.
I believe that what we term evil is just a natural state of atomic deconstruction. its influence via electrical signals is negative.

Meaning our physical bodies influence our negativity naturally.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:31 PM   #55
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Jolly good, I hope your total freedom is not far off then.

It´s just that I´ve grown very disillusioned about the idea of helping others.
When I was younger I had high hopes and ideals like you. But I found out that in spite of all my good intentions, that it is indeed very difficult to help, because often people don´t want to be helped, and/or they are far more interested in dragging you down in their own quagmire so they can step on you.

Sorry if this sounds pessimistic, but I guess that´s what I am.
I have always had the desire to help others, no matter how much I suffered,
no matter how much people hurt me all my life, I never lost that desire to do
good for others.. however I do think I understand what you mean to limited
extent. I have a friend who has had a difficult life because of religion, and
he has been hurt as well because he cannot cope with his family imposing
Islam onto him.. and he got desillusioned with helping others as well.

And thank you for the good wishes.

Last edited by zsymon; 03-01-2011 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:33 PM   #56
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Hmm, do you make a difference between knowledge and beliefs?
of course... to know something requires no belief whatsoever. belief is only required for things that can't be known.

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Originally Posted by zsymon View Post
Many scientific theories are nothing but that, theories, but ifa scientist doesn't believe in them, he won't try to prove them
or find evidence for them.. and an important discovery might never be made.
you're mixing the terminology. scientists prove theories, not beliefs.

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Isn't belief and faith important for mankind to progress socially,physically and spiritually?
on the contrary. belief and faith are the main things that cause conflict and are holding mankind back from intellectual progress.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:38 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by skeptik View Post
of course... to know something requires no belief whatsoever. belief is only required for things that can't be known.



you're mixing the terminology. scientists prove theories, not beliefs.



on the contrary. belief and faith are the main things that cause conflict and are holding mankind back from intellectual progress.
scientists prove theories within the context of dogma.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:39 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by biblegirl View Post
I don't know about all the philosophical tenets of duality, like "you have to have dark to have light, etc.". I just think it's lame when people twist these concepts into an excuse to revel in their own darkness, as if they are doing themselves or others a favor. Like people who want to be vampires and goths say it's okay because of duality. I would guess this is an improper use of the concept.

You don't have to have satanism to have christianity (as some people assert) but it would seem we had christianity before we had satansim...in this way, "light" came before the "dark"...did the darkness have to infiltrate for people to appreciate or fully comprehend the light? I don't think so. I think this way is not giving people enough credit for choosing their path (light or dark), if it is in this fixed system of duality.

If you are going to say that people are born light or dark and there is nothing they can do about it, then that pretty much rules out choice and opportunity for spiritual evolution.

I don't know about the one creators or two. I do that think entire civilizations exist without evil/darkness, and there doesn't necessarily have to be a corresponding civilization that exists without good/light, although there may be some that do.
Universal duality doesn't mean duality has to exist everywhere, it only means
it exists on a Universal scale. Balance means that an entire solar system is
pure.. meaning it is completely dark or completely Light. Our solar system is
a place that is meant to be completely Light, without any darkness, without
any negativity.. and the process going on now is returning to that state of
purity.

Spiritual dimensions are always either completely Light or completely dark, in
spiritual realms there cannot exist both Light and dark more than just a few
moments, and it cannot anchor there.

For example the darkness can find a way to invade a spiritual Light world, but
it can only stay there for a few moments, it cannot anchor there to stay. A
Light soul can be pulled into a dark dimension, but it can never be trapped
there. For example if I am pulled out of my body into an astral hell, and my
physical body would be killed, I would instantly be pulled back into the Light,
as Light souls can never be trapped in darkness, and dark souls can never
stay in Light.

A planet, and a solar system, is always meant to be either Light or dark, not
both. When a Light planet or solar system is weakened, it can be invaded,
and if it is not destroyed then the Light will always find a way to restore the
place to purity, to only Light again.

The Light has no right to invade a dark world.. and it never does.
The dark has no right to invade a Light world.. but it often does this.

That is the difference.. Light and dark are equal in value, but they are very
different in desire, energy, nature and attitude. Where as darkness seeks to
disrupt and block the flow of Light, the Light seeks balance and seeks to
restore the flow of Light where it is blocked or disrupted. That is how both
sides evolve.. darkness gets better at deception and destruction, and Light
gets better at restoration and healing.

Evolution for darkness means evolving within power, control, destruction.
Evolution for Light means evolving within healing, restoration, freedom.

They evolve on different paths.

But it is true that a soul is either Light or dark, they did not choose this,
they got born that way.. and neither of them would ever want to change
what they are. A Light soul would never want to be dark, and a dark soul
would never want to be Light.. they are perfectly happy that way.

Last edited by zsymon; 03-01-2011 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:43 PM   #59
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scientists prove theories within the context of dogma.
The scientific method don't you mean!!
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:53 PM   #60
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The scientific method don't you mean!!
no the dogma that its not based on sentience. That creationism and evolution cant co exist.
that existence cant be proven to be the unavoidable effect of the interaction between infinitissimal matter and what we call infinite consciousness.

The socratic or scientific method is the way it should be done. But mainstream science is predisposed to belive that consciousness isnt an elemental force , hence religion.
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