Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > 9/11 & 7/7

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-04-2008, 06:05 AM   #21
dave52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,141
Likes: 985 (411 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyince View Post
Who are?
Gee, the perps... let me think. Maybe Osama, he could have arranged it all when he met with the CIA in a Dubai Hospital just before the attacks.

Maybe the 19 Arabs with box cutters (apart from the ones still alive).

Come on mate, it doesn't really matter how you slice it. The official story, as reinforced by the Keane commision (which was made up of Neo-Con and Oil Company cronies - with the exception of Max Cleland who left pretty quickly calling the whole thing a sham), is pretty easy to dismantle.
__________________
Dave.

www.DaveWare.co.uk
Are You Listening...?

Last edited by dave52; 03-04-2008 at 09:51 AM.
dave52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 07:32 AM   #22
weston white
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 600
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

What are you talking about you are the only debunker in the thread, lol.

Click to have your numbed mind refreshed: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...ghlight=cables

But sure go ahead and do my research for me, we all know that you are so good at it, laff. BTW, how are those Canadian documentaries going for you, they working out pretty good for you?

Larry is a very rich man because of 9/11 what in the hell are you even talking about, do you not know how to add and subtract, are you baffled by basic mathematic principles? Geez get real and get serious. Really, truly, seriously.

So now are you saying that the fire was hot enough to melt a composition of metals? Please tell me that you are, please, oh please, oh, please, please, please!


Quote:
A massive building collapsed, releasing massive amounts of energy. That really doesn't provide any proof of explosive devices planted within it.

Hello, Cyince, this is your wakeup call, you keep saying "collapsed", but see you covet that fact that what they did was "explode", the buildings are you ready for this... you ready... ok you ready... the buildings they...

E X P O L O D E D ! ! !

Do you get me sweetheart?

Quote:
I stand corrected.
ROFLMAO, oh yea seismic data can't be counted on because the field of vision was clouded by the debris from the falling buildings... where do you get this crap and why do you even bother, really!
__________________
weston white is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 10:02 AM   #23
dave52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,141
Likes: 985 (411 Posts)
Default

Quote:
I stand corrected
That was classic...! Of course this raises an important issue. People who believe the official theory don't really know the ins and outs of the events of 9/11. Cyince was under the impression that the towers fell in 14-18 seconds. This just isn't true and can be proved incorrect very easily, but he has picked that up from somewhere.

We can argue about the minute details or even the big picture, and let's face it - we spend a lot of time doing that (NPT/DEW/Thermite/Missiles etc), but at the end of the day, we can all agree that the official theory is wafer thin and can be deconstructed in minutes.
__________________
Dave.

www.DaveWare.co.uk
Are You Listening...?
dave52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 11:36 AM   #24
cyince
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 299
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weston white View Post
What are you talking about you are the only debunker in the thread, lol.

Click to have your numbed mind refreshed: http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showt...ghlight=cables
Is it your contention now that no building has ever been pulled down with cables? I didn't know this was a debunker issue.

Quote:
But sure go ahead and do my research for me, we all know that you are so good at it, laff. BTW, how are those Canadian documentaries going for you, they working out pretty good for you?
I honestly havne't had time to watch them (or any thing for that matter), I've been pretty busy. (Are you trying to tell me canadian income tax is illegial now?)


Quote:
Larry is a very rich man because of 9/11 what in the hell are you even talking about, do you not know how to add and subtract, are you baffled by basic mathematic principles? Geez get real and get serious. Really, truly, seriously.
*Approximations here

He got about 7 billion from insurance. He is contractually obligated to rebuild the buildings. The rebuilding cost is in the area of 12-16 billion. That is not making a lot of money.

Quote:
So now are you saying that the fire was hot enough to melt a composition of metals? Please tell me that you are, please, oh please, oh, please, please, please!
Yes

Magnesium, copper, aluminum alloy (you know materials common in an office buildings)

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tab...tingpoints.htm

*Thoes are just common metals, there are others in electronic components that were abundant in the wtc. When in different compositions they can have higher and lower melting points. More to the point the heat can release different fluorocarbons which are volatile in a fire situation.


Quote:
Hello, Cyince, this is your wakeup call, you keep saying "collapsed", but see you covet that fact that what they did was "explode", the buildings are you ready for this... you ready... ok you ready... the buildings they...

E X P O L O D E D ! ! !

Do you get me sweetheart?
You think they exploded because there were explosives present. I think it looked like an explosion because of the ejected debris. I think the release of kentic energy was enough to cause the ejections, where as you do not. I get you, and I need more than that to be convinced there were explosives planted.

Oh can you explain to me how explosives would leave molten metal for 'weeks' after as some claim?


Quote:
ROFLMAO, oh yea seismic data can't be counted on because the field of vision was clouded by the debris from the falling buildings... where do you get this crap and why do you even bother, really!
I said I was wrong. Something we will probably never see you do. Someone said 8 seconds, I said I thought it was 12-14. I was wrong, and i posted the NIST findings paraphrased (not by me) saying that it was 9 seconds and 10 seconds.

Hear that, I was wrong in my initial post, and said I stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave52 View Post
That was classic...! Of course this raises an important issue. People who believe the official theory don't really know the ins and outs of the events of 9/11. Cyince was under the impression that the towers fell in 14-18 seconds. This just isn't true and can be proved incorrect very easily, but he has picked that up from somewhere.
Again, I said "I think", (not F that the god damn tower fell in..., I said I think)....I did some quick searches, and guess what I was wrong. People posted evidence, and I stood corrected. The 14 seconds was not a corner stone of my beliefs, when error was legitimately pointed out I conceded.

Quote:
We can argue about the minute details or even the big picture, and let's face it - we spend a lot of time doing that (NPT/DEW/Thermite/Missiles etc), but at the end of the day, we can all agree that the official theory is wafer thin and can be deconstructed in minutes.
So can DEW, No Planes, Missiles etc. In fact there is a mountain of evidence for the official story, and conjecture and myth for the rest. I find it funny that you hold these ideas sacred but outright reject a theory that is supported by so much. To this day I have not seen a comprehensive thruther theory (or any alternate) that accounts for all the observable data. I keep asking, but as usual I just keep getting ignored.

Last edited by cyince; 03-04-2008 at 11:38 AM.
cyince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 12:58 PM   #25
barbitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: KURANDA,QLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,272
Likes: 3 (2 Posts)
Default

Fair play Cyince. I am only probing you because I have been investigating 911 and related issues for years now and I value an outside perspective so to speak. It helps me put things in perspective etc.....

Can I throw this one at you:




See the heat shown in the area of building seven? What's your take on how that amount of heat ended up where it ended up?


This is an awful lot of heat to end up like this for so long. The temperatures needed are surely higher than what could possibly be generated by a jet fuel fire any which way I look at it.



These were created by the jet fuel heat?



Sorry about the size of this picture but this shows guns from WTC6 that were incased in concrete from the intense heat.

Jet fuel did this?






Notice how the top is falling off to the side? Where is the weight being distributed? How can it collapse the building in a symmetrical fashion all the way to the ground? Why wouldn't the top just fall off and the collapse stop?

Also keep in mind that the way the towers were built (according to a doco about the construction of the towers), the steel gets lighter and lighter in weight towards the top.

Also, quite obviously a great deal of the tower is being ejected out sideways. Where then is the immense, perfectly symmetrical weight that is needed for such a "collapse"?


I don't have all the answers. No one does. But we have legitimate questions which are not only being ignored, they are being ridiculed and such.
We are not saying we know how it all transpired, we might, however, be saying how it didn't (couldn't of) happen. (ie- official version)


What do think about these points? Am I being paranoid?

btw heres another pic of molten steel (or at least the heat coming off) at ground zero:
__________________
Squeegee your third-fucking-eye-(Bill Hicks)

barbitone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 01:03 PM   #26
barbitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: KURANDA,QLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,272
Likes: 3 (2 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Oh can you explain to me how explosives would leave molten metal for 'weeks' after as some claim?
They probably wouldn't but thermite\thermade probably would.
__________________
Squeegee your third-fucking-eye-(Bill Hicks)

barbitone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 03:06 PM   #27
cyince
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 299
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbitone View Post
Fair play Cyince. I am only probing you because I have been investigating 911 and related issues for years now and I value an outside perspective so to speak. It helps me put things in perspective etc.....

Can I throw this one at you:
[/qutoe]

I don't mind people asking questions, I just dislike how dismissiive and arrogant some are. But it really doesn't bother me. (Weston just likes theatrics)



See the heat shown in the area of building seven? What's your take on how that amount of heat ended up where it ended up?
Small Smouldering fires prehaps. Piles of molten material being deprived of oxygen. The interestiog thing is that people claim this proves molten steel, but the temps observed arent' that high.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-...ermal.r09.html

Quote:
This is an awful lot of heat to end up like this for so long. The temperatures needed are surely higher than what could possibly be generated by a jet fuel fire any which way I look at it.



These were created by the jet fuel heat?
Pressure, and heat, yes.



Sorry about the size of this picture but this shows guns from WTC6 that were incased in concrete from the intense heat.

Jet fuel did this?
[/quote]

Pressure, and heat, yes.

Quote:




Notice how the top is falling off to the side? Where is the weight being distributed? How can it collapse the building in a symmetrical fashion all the way to the ground? Why wouldn't the top just fall off and the collapse stop?


One the reaction started, there was nothing that could have stopped it. Your talking about massive amounts of weights under gravity, that have had their support mechanisims obsensibly removed. The momentum escalates as it progresses. The spporting structures underneath were not designed with that massive of a saftey margin.

Quote:
Also keep in mind that the way the towers were built (according to a doco about the construction of the towers), the steel gets lighter and lighter in weight towards the top.
Quote:
Also, quite obviously a great deal of the tower is being ejected out sideways. Where then is the immense, perfectly symmetrical weight that is needed for such a "collapse"?
Its not perfectly symmetrical (saying perfectly symetrical is redundant). It appers to be. Yes much steel was ejected, but the ratio of ejected steel to 'collapsed' steel is probably 10:1, not to mention the concrete in the floors.

Quote:
I don't have all the answers. No one does. But we have legitimate questions which are not only being ignored, they are being ridiculed and such.
We are not saying we know how it all transpired, we might, however, be saying how it didn't (couldn't of) happen. (ie- official version)
The questions havn't been ignored, the NIST faqs specifically address much of these topics. Its not the questions that have been ignored, but the answers.
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_12_2007.htm
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/f...gation_911.htm

Quote:
What do think about these points? Am I being paranoid?
Your right to ask questions, and question everything. I don't fault anyone for questioning things. I just feel that many 'questions' people have, have been answered already, and they just don't want to see that. (I guarntee that someone will say the same thing about me). I understand that people are ideologically tied to the inside job thing, and i understand the allure, (I would love to see GW et al. implicated in it....but sadly they are not guilty)

Quote:
btw heres another pic of molten steel (or at least the heat coming off) at ground zero:
Its a doctored photo. I'll link when I'm not at work (sorry for the spelling mistakes, and grammar, quick response on coffee)
cyince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 04:05 PM   #28
cyince
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 299
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Here is a good discussion

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

http://911guide.googlepages.com/wtc
cyince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 08:20 PM   #29
citroen999
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
I stand corrected.
well done cyince for admiting that.. now that you have made that first step of finding out that some of what you have read my be false and misleading, you might aswell go and recheck and anylize all your other 911 beliefs.

To be honest if you had watched loose change, or 911 mysteries you would have learned that fact.
__________________
I refuse to tiptoe quietly through life to safely arrive at death!!

There are 2 sides to every story and then there's the truth!!

If i left you alone in the woods with only a hatchet how long before you could send me an email?
citroen999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 08:35 PM   #30
weston white
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 600
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbitone View Post
They probably wouldn't but thermite\thermade probably would.
And I bet that the concrete basin was the perfect container.
__________________
weston white is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 08:38 PM   #31
weston white
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 600
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Is it your contention now that no building has ever been pulled down with cables? I didn't know this was a debunker issue.
Really, I find that odd, especially considering it is you yourself that keeps bringing that lame theory up over and over and over and over again and again and again and again. But you got it. That is exactly what I am saying, of course as so stated within the previous post I made on this subject.

Quote:
I honestly havne't had time to watch them (or any thing for that matter), I've been pretty busy. (Are you trying to tell me canadian income tax is illegial now?)
I am not even a Canadian and have watched those videos several times over the last few months. lol.

Quote:
He got about 7 billion from insurance. He is contractually obligated to rebuild the buildings. The rebuilding cost is in the area of 12-16 billion. That is not making a lot of money.
Really, show me where this is so, because at this point is really seems as if you are making all of this up as you go along.

What is even funnier is realized within your own article in which you posted:

Quote:
$8.4 billion -- would replace the property that was destroyed in the attacks, Perrone said.
The remaining $3.9 billion would pay for lost income and expenses associated with renting the new buildings.
Quote:
Yes

Magnesium, copper, aluminum alloy (you know materials common in an office buildings)

http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tab...tingpoints.htm

*Thoes are just common metals, there are others in electronic components that were abundant in the wtc. When in different compositions they can have higher and lower melting points. More to the point the heat can release different fluorocarbons which are volatile in a fire situation.
Do you know what temperatures it takes to melt steel how long an open flame combustible fire would take to melt steel, who am I kidding obviously you do not… it is not even possible, you need the correct oxygen to fire ratio, which is to force air into the flames creating superheating, this by the way is a very long process and the WTC’s fell within the first hour, thus again impossible.

But are you saying that the structure of the WTC’s was made of copper and aluminum? Lol

We are not talking about little sheets of aluminum, or hard drives, or computers, or desks, we are talking about massive steel beams that are glowing red hot and massive pools of smelted steel.

Quote:
You think they exploded because there were explosives present. I think it looked like an explosion because of the ejected debris. I think the release of kentic energy was enough to cause the ejections, where as you do not. I get you, and I need more than that to be convinced there were explosives planted.
The energy would have driven the structure down, it would not have launched it upwards and outwards for that to occur the energy would have had to come from the inside out, look at any high speed vehicle collision to understand these principles. That theory that you hold, actually makes no sense, because the weight from above would have been so reduced from being launched all around the World Trade Center that there would have been nothing left to cause the bottom portion of the building to collapse, it would have reduced its burden of stress, in essence, thus solving the issue of failed floors, trusses, columns, ect., that is according to the theory that you hold.

Quote:
Oh can you explain to me how explosives would leave molten metal for 'weeks' after as some claim?
Somebody else was kind enough to show you this... yet again of course.


Quote:
Again, I said "I think", (not F that the god damn tower fell in..., I said I think)....I did some quick searches, and guess what I was wrong. People posted evidence, and I stood corrected. The 14 seconds was not a corner stone of my beliefs, when error was legitimately pointed out I conceded.
But I thought you were a truther in the past, any truther worth half their salt knows about these types of issues like the back of their hand, this is Truther 101 type information, these are the first things you learn about, the basic information, which is what this is, exactly what this is as a matter of fact.
__________________
weston white is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 10:23 PM   #32
cyince
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 299
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weston white View Post
Really, I find that odd, especially considering it is you yourself that keeps bringing that lame theory up over and over and over and over again and again and again and again. But you got it. That is exactly what I am saying, of course as so stated within the previous post I made on this subject.
What theory? I think when silversteen said 'pull it' he meant cease firefighting operations. weather or not he actually had a phone conversation with anyone of significance (or at all) is the issue in my opinion here, as no one in FDNY, says they even made the call, and even if he did, it would not be his decision to make.

Calbe pull downs are typically small structures (houses, barns) that either are structurally weak, or have been pre weakened. IF you think that nothing has ever been pulled down with cables thats your issue not mine. I never made the argument that Silversteen was calling for wtc 7 to be pulled down with cables.

Quote:
I am not even a Canadian and have watched those videos several times over the last few months. lol.
What does that have to do with me not having the time to watch them?
Are you making the claim that income tax is illegal/unconstitutional in Canada?

Quote:
Really, show me where this is so, because at this point is really seems as if you are making all of this up as you go along.

What is even funnier is realized within your own article in which you posted:

$8.4 billion -- would replace the property that was destroyed in the attacks, Perrone said.
The remaining $3.9 billion would pay for lost income and expenses associated with renting the new buildings.
Yes if he wins the law suit, he will have covered all of his liabilities (come out even {arguably ahead with new buildings/but less units**). He as of right now, has not done that. Right now he has lost money and will continue to lose money until new buildings re open.

Quote:
Do you know what temperatures it takes to melt steel how long an open flame combustible fire would take to melt steel, who am I kidding obviously you do not… it is not even possible, you need the correct oxygen to fire ratio, which is to force air into the flames creating superheating, this by the way is a very long process and the WTC’s fell within the first hour, thus again impossible.
I never said anything about melted steel, so I really don't get this tirade. I did pose probable causes and sources of molten material. I also questioned the existence of this molten material. I posted the USGS temperature summary of the thermal image, and then a melting point list of common metals.

Quote:
But are you saying that the structure of the WTC’s was made of copper and aluminum? Lol

We are not talking about little sheets of aluminum, or hard drives, or computers, or desks, we are talking about massive steel beams that are glowing red hot and massive pools of smelted steel.
No we are not. There is no evidence of this. We see a handful of photographs of what appears to be molten material. We do not see massive pools of melted steel.

Quote:
The energy would have driven the structure down, it would not have launched it upwards and outwards for that to occur the energy would have had to come from the inside out, look at any high speed vehicle collision to understand these principles. That theory that you hold, actually makes no sense, because the weight from above would have been so reduced from being launched all around the World Trade Center that there would have been nothing left to cause the bottom portion of the building to collapse, it would have reduced its burden of stress, in essence, thus solving the issue of failed floors, trusses, columns, ect., that is according to the theory that you hold.
Applying high speed colision principlas to a collapse? I don't follow.

What percentage of the towers do you think was ejected?

Because what your saying sounds like 70-80% of the mass of the towers was ejected, therefore there was not enough weigh to collapse the building.

I reject this because a proportionally small amount (relative tot he overall mass of the towers) of debris was ejected, causing a negligible reduction of the towers weight. You are also failing to take into account energies released from the snapping and breaking of structural components.

Quote:
Somebody else was kind enough to show you this... yet again of course.
Someone explained how explosives would cause molten metal not to cool for days and weeks after the collapse? Saying thermite could have caused it does't suffice, and if you think it does, you have to answer how thermite can now explode and eject materials hundreds of feet. (*mite, mate, etc who cares)

Quote:
But I thought you were a truther in the past, any truther worth half their salt knows about these types of issues like the back of their hand, this is Truther 101 type information, these are the first things you learn about, the basic information, which is what this is, exactly what this is as a matter of fact.
Every truther knows it? Why did he post 8 seconds, then when challenged, post 9 and 11 seconds?
Edit here: Its 8 and ten seconds, I guess I can't read.

Really, I just made a statement saying I thought off the top of my head that it was longer than 8 seconds (had wtc7s collapse time in my head) which it was. Just not as long as I typed in my response.

Last edited by cyince; 03-04-2008 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Can't read...haha
cyince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 10:33 PM   #33
dave52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,141
Likes: 985 (411 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by weston white View Post
But I thought you were a truther in the past, any truther worth half their salt knows about these types of issues like the back of their hand, this is Truther 101 type information, these are the first things you learn about, the basic information, which is what this is, exactly what this is as a matter of fact.
Truther 101:

Steel cannot melt at low temperatures.
Collapse was at free-fall speed.
Some hijackers have turned up alive.
Passports made of paper cannot pass through fireballs (and still be covered in hjet fuel).
Pentalawn (nuff said).
Mohamed Atta spent his spare time at strip joints (my, how devout of him).
Bin Laden was visited by a CIA agent months prior to the attack while in a hospital in Dubai.
Lt General Mahmoud of the ISI wired $100,000 to Atta prior to the attack, then spent the morning of 9/11 in a breakfast meeting on Capitol Hill with Bob Graham and Porter Goss.
FEMA Team already in place the day befor 9/11.
War Games paralysed Air Defense.
War Games included live fly hijacks into buildings (yet US intelligence said they'd never thought of it before).
Fake Bin Laden Video where he admits responsibility


Please feel free to add to the list...
__________________
Dave.

www.DaveWare.co.uk
Are You Listening...?

Last edited by dave52; 03-04-2008 at 10:56 PM.
dave52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 10:57 PM   #34
dave52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,141
Likes: 985 (411 Posts)
Default

Kean Commision by the numbers, just for Cyince...

Well, for starters, the original choice to head up the commision was Henry Kissinger, but that got such bad press, it was changed to Thomas Kean. Let's go through the movers and shakers...

Thomas Kean (Chairman)

Director and shareholder of Amerada Hess Corp, involved in a joint venture with Delta Oil of Saudi Arabia (owned by the Al-Amoudi clans) to explore and develop oil fields in the Caspian region. Former Governor of New Jersey and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). Co-chair of the Homeland Security Project which, under the Century Foundation laid the groundwork for the Office of Homeland Security legislation. Delta officials played a key role in negotiations with the Taliban over the planned Trans-Afgan Pipeline, along with officials from Enron.

Lee Hamilton (Vice Chair)

Member of CFR and was appointed to chair a committee investigating the Iran/Contra affair. He found that there was no truth to the charges of CIA/Contra drug smuggling (although the CIA has since admitted there was a drug connection). He was also said to be involved in the October Suprise and the damage control that followed.

Philip Zelikow (Executive Director)

One of only two commision officials to be allowed access to the highly classified documents, Zelikow wrote a book in 1995 with Condi Rice, was on the transition team for Bush's National Security Council and has close ties to Carl Rove, through work at the University of Virginia. Since 2001 he has been a member of Bush's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and made a public statement in 2002 saying that an attack on Iraq would be to protect Israeli interests. He also had discussions with Richard Clarke in 2000 about Bin Laden and al Qaeda, he probably should have been a witness.

Jamie Gorelick

Again a member of CFR, in May 1995 co-chaired the Intelligence Community Law Enforcement Board to discuss concerns of the Attorney General and Director of the CIA. The other co-chair was George Tenet. This is the same time frame (spring 1995) in which the Philippine government apprised the FBI, CIA and State Department of "Project Bojinka". An Islamic terrorist plot which included hijacking commercial airlines planes and flying them into the Pentagon, the WTC and several other buildings. Gorelick is also thought to be a board member of Schlumberger (pronounced slumber-shay), who are the worlds premier oil drilling company.

Richard Ben-Veniste

Washington attorney who defended Barry Seal, the drug-running CIA asset of Iran/Contra fame.

Fred Fielding

Served for Nixon under John Dean at the time of Watergate, served as Whitehouse Council to Reagan and on the Bush transition team in early 2001.

Max Cleland

Triple-amputee from service in Vietnam, eventually left the commision calling it a "scam" and saying that "America is being cheated". He added that "As each day goes by we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before September 11 than it has ever admitted... Lets chase this rabbit into the ground. They had a plan to go to war and when 9/11 happened, that's what they did; they went to war".

Bob Kerrey (replaced Cleland)

Selected by Thomas Daschle, he was vice-chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and approved the nomination of CIA Director Tenet and remains his political ally. He was the leading member of an outfit known as the "Committee for the Liberation of Iraq", which was an off-shoot of the Project for the New American Century.


Follow the dots....
__________________
Dave.

www.DaveWare.co.uk
Are You Listening...?
dave52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 11:00 PM   #35
barbitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: KURANDA,QLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,272
Likes: 3 (2 Posts)
Default

Perfectly preserved bandana of "hijacker" found at the hole in the ground crash site of Pennsylvania.
DNA from hijackers found in the shredded remains of the twin towers which somehow they had DNA database to match it with. (pop mechanics claim)
WTC7 had "huge scoop" out of the bottom - photographic evidence - can only look at it if you are popular mechanics magazine.
Explosion experienced in the basement BEFORE the first plane struck.
Fireball from impact finds its way all the way down the tower through air tight elevator shaft with enough power to explode at the bottom floor.
Secret service men pick up "plane debri" on Pentagon lawn. (why would they do that?)
Impact on Pentagon inconsistent of jet airliner (engine holes, wing tips, tail section)
Previous pilot of the pentagon plane says he couldn't have carried out that manouver - plane would fall out of the sky.
Thermade residue found on steel from WTC's.
WTC7 committed suicide! Symmetrically.
__________________
Squeegee your third-fucking-eye-(Bill Hicks)

barbitone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 11:13 PM   #36
dave52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,141
Likes: 985 (411 Posts)
Default

Although fireball allegedly barrels down the elevator shafts, Naudet Brother's DVD cleary shows intact elevators and an entire scene based around some people emerging from said elevators.

Pentagon "Punch Out" exit hole (including images showing the trajectory of plane through a number of the Pentagon Rings).

Fire so intense at the Pentagon that it can disintegrate titanium jet engines, yet most passengers and hijackers are identified and there are images of intact windows, desks and documents in the impact zone.
__________________
Dave.

www.DaveWare.co.uk
Are You Listening...?
dave52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 11:56 PM   #37
cyince
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 299
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave52 View Post
Truther 101:

Steel cannot melt at low temperatures.
Steel didn't melt

Quote:
Collapse was at free-fall speed.
How does the debis fall faster than freefall?

Quote:
Some hijackers have turned up alive.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Hijackers_still_alive
Here are some links
Ramzi Binalshibh's confession (audio)
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...64674&hl=en-GB
Atta & Jarrah martyrdom videos
http://tailrank.com/613215/Mohammed-Atta-Video-Released
September 11 mastermind 'confesses' (KSM, March 15, 2007)
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...44E3479F2A.htm
Quote:
Passports made of paper cannot pass through fireballs (and still be covered in hjet fuel).
The whole passport thing I can take or leave, its not impossible they survived, but I understand the skeptisism.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Pe...Proof_Passport
Quote:
Pentalawn (nuff said).
What about it?
Quote:
Mohamed Atta spent his spare time at strip joints (my, how devout of him).
His 'girl friend' was lying
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/At...lubs_and_drugs
Quote:
Bin Laden was visited by a CIA agent months prior to the attack while in a hospital in Dubai.
No he wasn't
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Bin_Laden_met_the_CIA
Quote:
Lt General Mahmoud of the ISI wired $100,000 to Atta prior to the attack, then spent the morning of 9/11 in a breakfast meeting on Capitol Hill with Bob Graham and Porter Goss.
*Gotta find the links for a perfect game

Quote:
FEMA Team already in place the day befor 9/11.
This is a new one to me
Source
Quote:
War Games paralysed Air Defense.
Quote:
War Games included live fly hijacks into buildings (yet US intelligence said they'd never thought of it before).
Like I've said before, if the full incompetence of the intelligence community was made public immediately in the aftermath I think there would have been serious repercussions (ie more terrorist attacks). This however does not mean I support this lying or misdirection by the government.

Quote:
Fake Bin Laden Video where he admits responsibility
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...stcount=195%20
http://www.911myths.com/html/fake_video.html


Quote:
Please feel free to add to the list...

Last edited by cyince; 03-04-2008 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Fing media tags
cyince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 12:28 AM   #38
weston white
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 600
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
when silversteen said 'pull it' he meant cease firefighting operations.
When you refer to people do you commonly call them “it’s” or do you say “them”, moreso when you refer to policemen or fireman to you call them people or do you all them “policemen” and “firemen”? See where I am going with this? Do you think Larry is stupid and uneducated?

Furthermore, cease what firefighting operations, nothing was going on in building 7, they claim they had no water, so why would they be there? Either they had water and could have put the flames out rather then permitting them to burn for 5+ hours nonstop or they had no water and would therefore not attempt to fight the fire because they had nothing to fight the fire with. You can’t have it both ways sunray.

Quote:
Calbe pull downs are typically small structures (houses, barns) that either are structurally weak, or have been pre weakened. IF you think that nothing has ever been pulled down with cables thats your issue not mine. I never made the argument that Silversteen was calling for wtc 7 to be pulled down with cables.
You argue that this terminology means something else, that it does not mean to CD a building or that it means or can mean either or.

Quote:
What does that have to do with me not having the time to watch them?
Are you making the claim that income tax is illegal/unconstitutional in Canada?
All first world countries operate under the same principles and structures, the tax is legal and constitutional same as in the USA, it is just being misapplied through omission and complacency. You should watch the videos really, good stuff.

But this is were a large part of the problem lies, I say taxes are being conducted under a perpetuation of fraud and you come back and say that I am saying they are illegal, you are using that same false logic when looking into 9/11.

Quote:
Yes if he wins the law suit, he will have covered all of his liabilities (come out even {arguably ahead with new buildings/but less units**). He as of right now, has not done that. Right now he has lost money and will continue to lose money until new buildings re open.
His initial investment was a few hundred million, he was awarded ~7 billion or so. Again show me where he is contractually obligated to use his own money to rebuilt so much as a tent anywhere. Moreso, if he opts to rebuild he gets to use his own architectural company to do the job, so he is really just paying himself back his own money, minus the building material and labor costs, which I am sure he has tons of connections in those respects as well. Not to mention that his company will hold the record once again for building the worlds largest/tallest building, making his company huge profits from future building contracts.

Besides that tell me that he could not if he so chose to, in a case where he stood to loose so much as a dime that he would not have a team of attorneys in court to break out of his contract. If he were in such a case we know he would do his damndest to keep a trial going for years and years and years and that is at the very least.

Quote:
I never said anything about melted steel, so I really don't get this tirade. I did pose probable causes and sources of molten material. I also questioned the existence of this molten material. I posted the USGS temperature summary of the thermal image, and then a melting point list of common metals.
Then why are you debating it?

Quote:
Applying high speed colision principlas to a collapse? I don't follow.

What percentage of the towers do you think was ejected?

Because what your saying sounds like 70-80% of the mass of the towers was ejected, therefore there was not enough weigh to collapse the building.

I reject this because a proportionally small amount (relative tot he overall mass of the towers) of debris was ejected, causing a negligible reduction of the towers weight. You are also failing to take into account energies released from the snapping and breaking of structural components.
You need to go back and watch frame by frame the towers collapsing. When a car crashes does it explode all over the city block or does it crush and implode within itself. I think any fireman will state it is the latter.

Quote:
Someone explained how explosives would cause molten metal not to cool for days and weeks after the collapse? Saying thermite could have caused it does't suffice, and if you think it does, you have to answer how thermite can now explode and eject materials hundreds of feet. (*mite, mate, etc who cares)
Thermate was used to cut the columns, explosives were used to initiate the collapse. They went grossly overboard in their calculations, it was done very Hollywoodish, this I feel was to add to the dramatic effect, though could have also had to do with them reverse collapsing the buildings, which is not the normal method and they are not familiar in that capacity, so they needed to make sure they did the job correctly the first time along with the fact that they do not get to use the buildings weight to drive down the detonated lower floors working upwards… also taking into account that this is such a massive building, more so then they are use to.


Quote:
Every truther knows it? Why did he post 8 seconds, then when challenged, post 9 and 11 seconds?
Edit here: Its 8 and ten seconds, I guess I can't read.

Really, I just made a statement saying I thought off the top of my head that it was longer than 8 seconds (had wtc7s collapse time in my head) which it was. Just not as long as I typed in my response.
Lets us debate a 1 second variation, yes lets do this, really now.
__________________
weston white is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 12:33 AM   #39
barbitone
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: KURANDA,QLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,272
Likes: 3 (2 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Steel didn't melt


WHAT IS THIS THEN!!!!!?????????
__________________
Squeegee your third-fucking-eye-(Bill Hicks)

barbitone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2008, 12:53 AM   #40
weston white
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: California
Posts: 600
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
WHAT IS THIS THEN!!!!!?????????
Oh that is more of those doctored photos. lolchopters.

Dang, speaking of out of control fires, Dave, just threw one onto Cyince, hehehehee
__________________
weston white is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.