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Old 05-02-2013, 05:16 PM   #21
ksigmason
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OK, I'll throw you a bone - I haven't heard of a one of them. I suppose now you can explain the relevance of this question to the thread?
Well, earlier I asked:

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What are the higher levels?
Then you said:

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The ones that we're ignorant of
So by your very logic those groups are "high levels" since you are ignorant of them. That's my point. Now are they really high levels? Not really, but they have important lessons and interesting histories.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:41 PM   #22
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Now are they really high levels? Not really, but they have important lessons and interesting histories.
Is there nothing beyond the 33 degrees made public? Does knowledge of these important lessons & history qualify one to go beyond the public aspect of the masonic institution altogether?

I've seen people argue that the 32rd degree is just the beginning..?
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:43 PM   #23
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Well, earlier I asked:

Then you said:

So by your very logic those groups are "high levels" since you are ignorant of them. That's my point. Now are they really high levels? Not really, but they have important lessons and interesting histories.
Your logic has failed. I referred to the ones the WE'RE ignorant of, not the ones I'M ignorant of.

Please read more closely next time - unless you're trying to spin my words to deceive people here.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:57 PM   #24
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Lightbulb TT's

You know what I love about troll thread's is that they are so informative

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=509
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=143

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Old 06-02-2013, 05:00 AM   #25
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Is there nothing beyond the 33 degrees made public? Does knowledge of these important lessons & history qualify one to go beyond the public aspect of the masonic institution altogether?

I've seen people argue that the 32rd degree is just the beginning..?
There's more to Freemasonry than the Scottish Rite. In the Scottish Rite however there is the Supreme Council that stands as authority over the Scottish Rite jurisdiction. There is nothing above the 33rd degree in the Scottish Rite.

All I groups I listed stem from the American York Rite.

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Your logic has failed. I referred to the ones the WE'RE ignorant of, not the ones I'M ignorant of.
I'm just pointing out that there may be groups you're ignorant of may not necessarily mean others are ignorant of them. There is no secret, hidden body within Freemasonry.
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:53 AM   #26
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There is no secret, hidden body within Freemasonry.
How could it be possible for you to say this with any confidence?

There could be a secret, hidden body within my soccer club and it's entirely plausible that I would never know about it.

I'm not trolling you, I'm only asking how it could be that you can speak with confidence about something that could not be known.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:56 AM   #27
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How could it be possible for you to say this with any confidence?

There could be a secret, hidden body within my soccer club and it's entirely plausible that I would never know about it.

I'm not trolling you, I'm only asking how it could be that you can speak with confidence about something that could not be known.
We can speak with confidence because we know what we are on about! Get it?
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Old 07-02-2013, 06:45 AM   #28
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We can speak with confidence because we know what we are on about! Get it?
Ah, the cavalry's arrived.

So I have to trust you. Just bow the head and "yes master, whatever you say master"?

I don't mind doing that, but it won't be to someone I don't know online.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:20 AM   #29
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There could be a secret, hidden body within my soccer club and it's entirely plausible that I would never know about it.

I'm not trolling you, I'm only asking how it could be that you can speak with confidence about something that could not be known.
The difference being that you would be more likely to know about secret groups within your soccer club than you would in someone else's golf club. Freemasonry is our "soccer club", so we are more likely to know about what goes on.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:49 PM   #30
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The difference being that you would be more likely to know about secret groups within your soccer club than you would in someone else's golf club. Freemasonry is our "soccer club", so we are more likely to know about what goes on.
Yet another logic fail.

If it's secret from you, then it's secret from me. This is true.

But none of you appear willing to even consider the possibility that there are secret groups operating within the fraternity. Because there is no way you can know for certain that there isn't, you are being dishonest here.

You are asking me to believe something that is not provable. No honest man could ever ask another to do this.

I know that the most basic strategy of the confidence trickster is to pretend that he knows something that his mark does not. You lot are claiming to know something that cannot be known - ergo, you are liars.

Get it?
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:05 PM   #31
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How could it be possible for you to say this with any confidence?
Because of my experience and research within the Fraternity.

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So I have to trust you. Just bow the head and "yes master, whatever you say master"?
I'm a Past Master of my Lodge and the current Master was a Mason I raised (gotta love that feeling to see one of my initiates taking up the mantle). I am Commander for my Knights Templar Commandery.

In many avenues, particularly on Masonic history, I know more than the Master of my Lodge.

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But none of you appear willing to even consider the possibility that there are secret groups operating within the fraternity. Because there is no way you can know for certain that there isn't, you are being dishonest here.
We know they don't exist because that's not how we operate. You assume we're some deceitful band constantly hoarding information, even from each other...we're not.

Plus what purpose would a secret group serve? It couldn't override the legislative and executive/management processes in place. I can guarantee that wouldn't happen.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:58 PM   #32
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Because of my experience and research within the Fraternity.


I'm a Past Master of my Lodge and the current Master was a Mason I raised (gotta love that feeling to see one of my initiates taking up the mantle). I am Commander for my Knights Templar Commandery.

In many avenues, particularly on Masonic history, I know more than the Master of my Lodge.


We know they don't exist because that's not how we operate. You assume we're some deceitful band constantly hoarding information, even from each other...we're not.

Plus what purpose would a secret group serve? It couldn't override the legislative and executive/management processes in place. I can guarantee that wouldn't happen.
This post is nothing but hot air. You only continue to make assertions - even if those of you who post here are honest, you can't know for sure that there are no traitors in your midst.

You're essentially claiming to have a solidarity that no group of people ever has. Ever.

For you to be speaking the truth you would have to have God-like ability to detect liars and cheats - which is the oldest trick in the book. Claim to be God and people treat you like it.
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Old 08-02-2013, 07:43 AM   #33
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Yet another logic fail.

If it's secret from you, then it's secret from me. This is true.

But none of you appear willing to even consider the possibility that there are secret groups operating within the fraternity. Because there is no way you can know for certain that there isn't, you are being dishonest here.

You are asking me to believe something that is not provable. No honest man could ever ask another to do this.

I know that the most basic strategy of the confidence trickster is to pretend that he knows something that his mark does not. You lot are claiming to know something that cannot be known - ergo, you are liars.

Get it?
The problem is that for us to consider the possibility that there are secret groups operating within the fraternity we would really need some reason for doing so. There is no evidence of this sort of secret group.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:11 AM   #34
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This post is nothing but hot air. You only continue to make assertions - even if those of you who post here are honest, you can't know for sure that there are no traitors in your midst.
There's always bad apples in every orchard, but regardless, that doesn't mean they have established some "secret group."

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For you to be speaking the truth you would have to have God-like ability to detect liars and cheats - which is the oldest trick in the book. Claim to be God and people treat you like it.
I do have an amazing BS meter.

No, I don't have to have god-like abilities to speak the truth.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:40 AM   #35
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The problem is that for us to consider the possibility that there are secret groups operating within the fraternity we would really need some reason for doing so. There is no evidence of this sort of secret group.
You don't need evidence of it to consider the possibility it exists.

How's this for a reason: some people might not be loyal to the aims of Freemasonry and have joined the fraternity in an effort to sabotage it and/or use its knowledge for other means?

Every organised group considers the possibility that some of its members are not loyal to it. It is ludicrous to claim that none of you have considered this possibility.

How could you tell that a prospective new member is what they claim they are?
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:47 AM   #36
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I do have an amazing BS meter.

No, I don't have to have god-like abilities to speak the truth.
An amazing BS meter, eh? I've got a decent one, too - and when people claim to know things that can't be known, I hear six alarms, all at once.

I'm not claiming that there are secret groups within Freemasonry. I'm merely asking how it could be known that there aren't - and references to "BS meters" will only convince idiots.

In order to speak the truth, you have to know what it is, which means that you're claiming there are things that can be known with 100% certainty. Godels Incompleteness Theorem tells me this is impossible. Why can you not admit that this principle of basic logic holds in the case of the fraternity?
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:56 PM   #37
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This guy sounds like a self-important douchebag.

Occupy Freemasonry? Good luck with that, we have rights and your paranoia doesn't override that.

Masonic trial? He's nothing more than a bitter ex-Mason who has fabricated a bullshit story of danger and abuses. Also note, he could bring his "security escort" and the "press", but they must stay outside the Lodge Hall.

Lost rights? What is he talking about when he says they lost the right to call themselves "Knights Templar"? He's also advocating cyber crimes and infringing on property rights. The whole 3rd World War-Pike thing is a myth and a proven hoax. If this is the kind of crap he spewed in his book then he's nothing more than a propagator of anti-Masons lies.
Thanks for your input ksigmason.

The reality is that you do not know if he is the real deal or not and your opinion of who is and what he represents is just that. Like everyone else, yours is just an opinion because the facts are even though you are a self proclaimed 32 degree Freemason, that does not mean you know everything going on in the craft or are an official spokesman for them on this matter.

In regards to the Knights Templars, anyone who call themselves a Knight or a Sir is essentially breaking the law because the facts are under UN law, someone who calls themselves a Knight and Sir who has not been Knighted by the Queen is doing so illegally. Just because you are a Freemason or an alleged Templar, does not preclude you from obeying the law and customs of the true Knights Templars recognized under UN law who follow the law of the land.

What are your rights in Freemasonry that no one cannot protest, openly criticize or attempt to discredit the fraternity?

In regards to Albert Pike and WWIII, I guess next you are going to tell me the George Bush's grandfather did not fund Hitler and the Nazi's and that the Roman Catholic Church is not in collusion with Freemasonry and a New World Oder.

Did you know that Washington DC was once called Rome and that Freemason, George Washington is related to Scandanavian and British royalty?
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #38
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Mate, I'm so skeptical about this Mason stuff.

If the secrets are all at the higher levels, of which the vast majority of people, Masons and non-Masons, are ignorant, we're all just speculating.

Which means all the talk about "the true agenda of the Masons" has as much value as the sound produced by a sloppy shit.
If you have done your homework on the history of Freemasonry, then you would know they 'help' run the show via ORDO AB CHAO. They are the agents and grand masters of CHAOS. Hence, it is their job to lie, mislead and cause confusion with everything they do.

Therefor, tis the reason why everything is secret, confusing and why those who are non 33rd degree masons speculate. If you are a 33rd degree mason and reveal the agenda in an ORDO fashion, I would safely guess that your voice would be simply taken out one way or another.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:09 PM   #39
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anybody can become a 32nd degree... and most are completely ignorant ...
he is just guessing.

10:44 PM < a number game again.
I have to agree with this because I have met a few in my life and they seemed to be all pretty ignorant and very naive in regards to the esoteric aspects of the craft, the true history masonry and also life in general. When you go online, everyone is a 32 degree Freemason with a blog as if they are ascended masters or adepts when they are far from it.

This reminds me of "some" of the mason behavior that we see in this forum. A bunch of know it all masons with 32 degrees that really don't mean shit when it comes to the esoteric, self mastery and being a true adept.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:16 PM   #40
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actually the 33rd degrees i know don't seem to have any clue... they are just harder working slaves to the club... my guess is that you have to have certain bloodline.

some 33rd blogged about it being no big deal.
I would have to agree that to become a 33rd degree, you have to be part of the ruling blood lines of the the bible, church, governments and secret societies. After all, there are still a ruling elite who manage the affairs and destiny of their subjects, you and I.
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