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Old 13-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #1
bobbydiva
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Default An Argument AGAINST naming and shaming paedos

Go in to this with an open mind, I think you'll see I'm being fair.

The Story of CHRIS: A Critique of Naming and Shaming Paedophiles

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...There exists a number of proactive citizens who are not content with leaving the naming and shaming to the Government. They create their own public websites and Facebook groups and do the finger pointing themselves. One would be naïve to think the Government don’t make errors and cannot be outperformed by private individuals, but some of these vigilantes are getting it wrong, and some of their own actions are immoral and verging on criminality.

This is the story of C.H.R.I.S. (Children Have Rights In Society) – a website run by a convicted football hooligan who couldn’t be a worse poster child for the do-it-yourself, name and shame concept...
Full Article:
http://wideshut.co.uk/the-story-of-c...g-paedophiles/
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Old 13-02-2013, 10:33 AM   #2
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Child abuse is and always will be one of the worst possible crimes that can be committed. It causes universal outrage and the very thought that abuse could be going on in your town, maybe even your street; or worse, the idea that convicted paedophiles are living amongst us, is enough to spur some people in to action.
They are paedophiles everywhere, I can remember in school starting about grade 4 people were having sex and this continued throughout school. How many were arrested and charged with child molestation? 1, he molested his probabtion officers daughter (he was 17, she was 6, all the rest in school were rawing the girls and fingering them and they were getting sucked off and until they start raiding all the schools, they are not serious obout the paedo problem because it is the same everywhere.

The above paragraph is a joke b/c paedos are everywhere and they don't do shit about it, but mainly they hide out in schools, because thats where the others they can molest are at and because law says they have to attend school, its like a pig sent to slaughter. Raid all the schools, arrest the paedos, then we can talk.
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Old 13-02-2013, 10:45 AM   #3
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Honestly I don't see the point you're making.
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:10 AM   #4
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I am vaguely aware of the CHRIS website, never really had a proper look at it,I don't think pushing the point that hes a convicted football hooligan adds any weight to the article, if hes done his time and been punished for teh crime then fair play. Whats more disturbing is his connection to the EDL, which means he probably hasn't changed at all, no doubt, prison made him worse.

I suppose you have to weigh up, how many pedao's he rightly named and shamed compared to the wrong ones and personal grudges hes got into.

To be fair he sounds unprofessional and a bit of a c**k, but ask yourself, at least hes doing something and the police seem to do sweet fuck all TBH.

At least hes fueling his hate in a direction that's useful now.

If it saves one child from getting abused, IMO its worth it.

Good Article, did you write it OP?

I watched wideshut 7/7 doc and the riot one last nite, well decent.

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Old 13-02-2013, 11:25 AM   #5
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Imo they rejected their humanity by destroying lives of children, who didnt even know sex is nor are they ready for it. I say name them so parents know from whom they need to protect their children. The worst thing is that someones kid could be a paedos next victim because naming them would hurt their feelings or/and privacy. I find that ridicilous. Why do normal ppl have to have an ID? I mean if normal ppl can be named(which isnt normal by me) I see no problem with naming the scum that destroys lives.
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:33 AM   #6
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I think that the reason that this subject is and has been discussed ALOT over the last 15 years or so, is to get it into our psyche that we should all lose our right to privacy for the greater good.


It's a psyop.
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:44 AM   #7
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Only speculating, but I think that sex offendors will be the first wave of people to be chipped.
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbydiva View Post
Go in to this with an open mind, I think you'll see I'm being fair.

The Story of CHRIS: A Critique of Naming and Shaming Paedophiles



Full Article:
http://wideshut.co.uk/the-story-of-c...g-paedophiles/
That is a nonsense post. It is not an argument for not naming and shaming pedos, it is an argument for not leaving such an important safety measure to unpaid amateurs. Could the government maybe please do its job instead of persecuting unpaid, unqualified people trying valiantly to fill a protection vacuum created by their negligence?
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:56 AM   #9
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Should a 13year old boy be put on the sex offenders register for the rest of his life with no prospects money and work because he slapped a girls bottom? This has happened too many times already.....The scenario is... You have a drunk man in a night club, does the same thing. Jokingly slaps a ladies bottom. She presses charge the perpetrator gets arrested and is put on the sex offenders register. Is this fair? Or just a tadge OTT?
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Old 13-02-2013, 11:58 AM   #10
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Haven't seen the website, but I am undecided on the debate.
Firstly, paedos ARE everywhere, you don't need to look up on a website if someone has a conviction.
Secondly, it could be dangerous to name and shame due to error, or if it was broadcasted that a certain paedo molested his own kids, then those kids are also potentially shamed (a usual victim response).
Thirdly, I knew a paedo who was convicted and eventually went to prison, but his brother, who has his own family and had absolutely nothing to do with these activities had his car smashed in, his property smashed in and when the brother came out to confront the thugs, he got a very nasty beating in front of his family.
Whether the thugs thought he was the abuser, or knew he was closely related to a paedo, I don't know.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devorian View Post
Should a 13year old boy be put on the sex offenders register for the rest of his life with no prospects money and work because he slapped a girls bottom? This has happened too many times already.....The scenario is... You have a drunk man in a night club, does the same thing. Jokingly slaps a ladies bottom. She presses charge the perpetrator gets arrested and is put on the sex offenders register. Is this fair? Or just a tadge OTT?
Men need to get it into their heads that slapping or nipping bottoms and any other groping without the express consent of the person being assaulted because it IS assault) is not ok...and it's still not ok if they're drunk either.

No I don't think it's fair for a 13 year old boy to be in that situation - are there really "too many" instances of this actually happening?

Where any adults are concerned, well, if you want to go around inappropriately touching strangers then on your own head be it if there are consequences. If they can't keep their hands to themselves when drunk then perhaps they should stop drinking.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandfordhilldave View Post
Only speculating, but I think that sex offendors will be the first wave of people to be chipped.
I don't think too many MPs, Councillors or anybody affiliated with a political party would vote to have themselves or their brethren chipped.

http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/41036-re...ty-affiliated/


However for the "plebs"...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...layground.html

Paedophiles to be tagged with GPS alarms which are triggered if they go near a school or playground
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New GPS tags set to be introduced in April will mean paedophiles can be banned from areas where children gather.

The system, which monitors the most dangerous criminals via satellites orbiting the earth, will set off an alarm if the sex offenders go too near a school.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:22 PM   #13
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There is no need for a site like this. You don't need to know you have a kiddie-fiddler living on the same street as you before you start to take care of your children's safety, you should be doing that anyway.

The only time such a strategy falls down is when the parent is the abuser, then what use would this website be?

So naming and shaming is a misdirection, if anything it'll just provoke more criminality, vigilantism, giving TPTB more DNA to add to their databases.

Also, a potentially worse scenario, if you check these sites and find none near to you it could give you a false sense of security; you think you're living in a child safe area and let your guard down.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:33 PM   #14
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Ppl should be mature enough to make a difference between a paedo and his/her familiy as theyre not to blame unless proven otherwise, that being said paedos should be not only named and shamed but Id rather stop there.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metaspiral View Post
I am vaguely aware of the CHRIS website, never really had a proper look at it,I don't think pushing the point that hes a convicted football hooligan adds any weight to the article, if hes done his time and been punished for teh crime then fair play. Whats more disturbing is his connection to the EDL, which means he probably hasn't changed at all, no doubt, prison made him worse.

I suppose you have to weigh up, how many pedao's he rightly named and shamed compared to the wrong ones and personal grudges hes got into.

To be fair he sounds unprofessional and a bit of a c**k, but ask yourself, at least hes doing something and the police seem to do sweet fuck all TBH.

At least hes fueling his hate in a direction that's useful now.

If it saves one child from getting abused, IMO its worth it.

Good Article, did you write it OP?
I do understand your point, but I guess with such a sensitive topic parents should probably be aware of who is behind the site, their character and perhaps their motives, this is not only the hooligan issue, but the fact that he listed innocent people due to personal grudges...One of the main points I wanted to get across is that it's all well and good rallying against the Government, saying their systems are wrong or ineffectual, but if you can do better...then...do better. I think the article demonstrates that no only is CHRIS doing a worse job, but he's causing harm and damage to innocent people.

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I watched wideshut 7/7 doc and the riot one last nite, well decent.
Thanks glad you enjoyed them...I'm currently working on a new series about the relationship between Western Governments and Islamic Extremists.

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Imo they rejected their humanity by destroying lives of children, who didnt even know sex is nor are they ready for it. I say name them so parents know from whom they need to protect their children. The worst thing is that someones kid could be a paedos next victim because naming them would hurt their feelings or/and privacy. I find that ridicilous. Why do normal ppl have to have an ID? I mean if normal ppl can be named(which isnt normal by me) I see no problem with naming the scum that destroys lives.
If you read the article you'll see that you're misinterpreting it. First off the Government already does "name and shame" convicted paedophiles; parents and guardians are now allowed to contact the police to ask who is in their area.

I'm not against groups naming and shaming publicly...BUT, they need to ensure their information is accurate, which CHRIS has not done, and they certainly shouldn't allow personal grudges to spill over on to the website.

Quote:
That is a nonsense post. It is not an argument for not naming and shaming pedos, it is an argument for not leaving such an important safety measure to unpaid amateurs. Could the government maybe please do its job instead of persecuting unpaid, unqualified people trying valiantly to fill a protection vacuum created by their negligence?
I wrote the article, so I know what it's about. You're correct, it's about holding amateurs to the same level of scrutiny as the Government. Maybe my title to this thread is a bit confusing.

The notion that Chris Wittwer is trying valiantly to fill a protection vacuum created by the Government's negligence I'd say is highly debateable. And since I don't work for the Government, the notion that the Government is doing the persecuting, or that it is even persecuting (I'd prefer constructive criticism) is false.

Quote:
Should a 13year old boy be put on the sex offenders register for the rest of his life with no prospects money and work because he slapped a girls bottom? This has happened too many times already.....The scenario is... You have a drunk man in a night club, does the same thing. Jokingly slaps a ladies bottom. She presses charge the perpetrator gets arrested and is put on the sex offenders register. Is this fair? Or just a tadge OTT?
Beyond the scope of the article, but I'd agree that's a debatable scenario.
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Old 13-02-2013, 12:42 PM   #16
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Of course the info needs to be accurate, I think the state knows that or they would be facing lawsuits, and they love their(our) money.
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Old 13-02-2013, 01:15 PM   #17
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Let me repeat:

This is a nonsense post. It is not an argument for not naming and shaming pedos, it is an argument for not leaving such an important safety measure to unpaid amateurs. Could the government maybe please do its job instead of persecuting unpaid, unqualified people trying valiantly to fill a protection vacuum created by their negligence?

The original post seems to be articulating an establishment false dichotomy.

Naming and shaming is wrong; it is the methodology of underclass thugs.

Oaky...naming and shaming could be a good idea in principle, but hey! It just wont work in practice...sorry about that.

The establishment have a multilevel intellectual response to this issue, but a mono-level hands off physical response.

Reminds me of the holocaust really. There is a "Schindler's List" story for emotionalist sheep and a spurious scholarship for those of an intellectual bent who see beyond soap and lampshades schlock and horror, either way it all vectors to six million.
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Old 13-02-2013, 01:26 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dopey View Post
Men need to get it into their heads that slapping or nipping bottoms and any other groping without the express consent of the person being assaulted because it IS assault) is not ok...and it's still not ok if they're drunk either.

No I don't think it's fair for a 13 year old boy to be in that situation - are there really "too many" instances of this actually happening?

Where any adults are concerned, well, if you want to go around inappropriately touching strangers then on your own head be it if there are consequences. If they can't keep their hands to themselves when drunk then perhaps they should stop drinking.
I totally agree, but does the punishment fit the crime? They should be dealt with by the law if it's offended anybody, but do they really need to be on the sex offenders register?
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Old 13-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #19
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Filed Under: Crime News
NEW YORK (July 25) -- Two middle-school students in Oregon are facing possible time in a juvenile jail and could have to register as sex offenders for smacking girls on the rear end at school.


Photo Gallery: Juvenile Justice?
Chrissy Ragulsky, News-Register Cory Mashburn, left, walks with his parents, Tracie and Scott Mashburn, from a juvenile detention facility. He and Ryan Cornelison were arrested in February after they were allegedly caught in the halls of their Oregon middle school slapping girls on the rear end.
< Previous 1 of 3 Next >
Cory Mashburn and Ryan Cornelison, both 13, were arrested in February after they were caught in the halls of Patton Middle School, in McMinnville, Ore., slapping girls on the rear end. Mashburn told ABC News in a phone interview that this was a common way of saying hello practiced by lots of kids at the school, akin to a secret handshake.

The boys spent five days in a juvenile detention facility and were charged with several counts of felony sex abuse for what they and their parents said was merely inappropriate but not criminal behavior.

The local district attorney has since backed off -- the felony charges have been dropped and the district attorney said probation would be an appropriate punishment. The Mashburns' lawyer said prosecutors offered Cory a plea bargain that would not require him to register as a sex offender, which the family plans to reject.

But the boys, if convicted at an Aug. 20 trial, still face the possibility of some jail time or registering for life as sex offenders.

The boys' families and lawyers said even sentencing them to probation would turn admittedly inappropriate but not uncommon juvenile rowdiness into a crime. If they are convicted of any of the misdemeanor charges against them, they would have to register as sex offenders.

"It's devastating," said Mark Lawrence, Cory Mashburn's lawyer. "To be a registered sex offender is to be designated as the most loathed in our society. These are young boys with bright futures, and the brightness of those futures would be over."


'Lots of Kids Do It' Cory Mashburn said he and Ryan Cornelison slapped each others' and other kids' bottoms every Friday. "Lots of kids at school do that," he said.

Cory and Ryan were brought to the principal's office Feb. 22, where they were questioned by school officials and a police officer. They were arrested that day and taken in handcuffs to a juvenile detention facility.

Court papers said the boys touched the buttocks of several girls, some of whom said this made them uncomfortable. The papers also said Cory touched a girl's breasts. But police reports filed with the court said other students, both boys and girls, slapped each other on the bottom.

"It's like a handshake we do," one girl said, according to the police report.

The boys were initially charged with five counts of felony sexual abuse. At a court hearing, two of the girls recanted, saying they never felt threatened or inappropriately touched by the boys. The judge released the boys but barred them from returning to school and required that they be under constant adult supervision.

District Attorney Bradley Berry has since dismissed the felony counts. The boys face 10 misdemeanor charges of harassment and sexual abuse. They face a maximum of up to one year in a juvenile jail on each count, though Berry said there was no way the boys would ever serve that much time.

"An appropriate sentence would be probation," he said. "These are minor misdemeanor charges that reflect repeated contact against multiple victims. We never intended for them to get a long time in detention."

"We're not seeking major penalties," he said. "We're seeking change in conduct."

'We Just Want This to Be Over' Tracie Mashburn, Cory's mother, said they will not accept plea and plan to fight the charges.

The arrests, critics said, reflect a trend toward criminalizing adolescent sexual behavior. Between 1998 and 2002, juvenile arrests for sex offenses other than rape or prostitution rose 9 percent -- the only kind of juvenile arrests that rose during that time, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

"More and more, they are criminalizing normal adolescent or preadolescent behavior," said Chuck Aron, co-chairman of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers juvenile justice committee.

Even probation, the Mashburns and their attorney said, would be too severe a punishment.
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Old 13-02-2013, 01:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voxvot View Post
Let me repeat:

This is a nonsense post. It is not an argument for not naming and shaming pedos, it is an argument for not leaving such an important safety measure to unpaid amateurs. Could the government maybe please do its job instead of persecuting unpaid, unqualified people trying valiantly to fill a protection vacuum created by their negligence?

The original post seems to be articulating an establishment false dichotomy.

Naming and shaming is wrong; it is the methodology of underclass thugs.

Oaky...naming and shaming could be a good idea in principle, but hey! It just wont work in practice...sorry about that.

The establishment have a multilevel intellectual response to this issue, but a mono-level hands off physical response.

Reminds me of the holocaust really. There is a "Schindler's List" story for emotionalist sheep and a spurious scholarship for those of an intellectual bent who see beyond soap and lampshades schlock and horror, either way it all vectors to six million.
Repeat all you want, I am not part of some "multilevel intellectual response to this issue".

I've never said naming and shaming is wrong...I'm saying GET IT RIGHT, prove you're better than the Government.

CHRIS has not done this.

Is he above criticisms in your eyes. Is everyone who goes about naming and shaming "valiantly trying to fill a protection vacuum created by the Government's negligence?"

Are the Government even being negligent on this issue? If you have a kid you can phone the police today and they will tell you who's in your area.
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