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Old 05-04-2009, 04:22 PM   #21
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Death is as much a part of nature as life. It comes to us all. To hunt effectively you have to be at one with your enviroment, tuned in with nature. If you aren't you won't achive your quarry.

Are you saying the fox is unatural to hunt its animal friend the rabbit.

Yes I agree people who know how to find fruits, nuts mushrooms and how to cultivate plants are also in tune with nature. Such people usually make the best hunters, I don't think this is purely coincidence

I also believe that the hunter who does not respect his quarry does not get rewarded with large bags.

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Old 05-04-2009, 04:36 PM   #22
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I don't want to change your mind or convert anyone because it has to come to you naturally. My view however is that the fox is unaware of other choices, it has limited options. I can get what I want from the supermarket (I live in a city with no natural options immediately available) so I can CHOOSE not to eat meat by conscious choice and thought and there are options which are calorific enough to meet my needs. A fox wouldn't get by on berries etc.
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Old 05-04-2009, 04:49 PM   #23
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I don't want to change your mind or convert anyone because it has to come to you naturally. My view however is that the fox is unaware of other choices, it has limited options. I can get what I want from the supermarket (I live in a city with no natural options immediately available) so I can CHOOSE not to eat meat by conscious choice and thought and there are options which are calorific enough to meet my needs. A fox wouldn't get by on berries etc.
I'm happy for people who don't want to eat meat.

But i think my diet is 100% natural, my way of life is very sustainable, and far more in tune with the planet than using a supermarket.

A fox eats the rabbit because it's natural for it to do so. Hunting is natural its natures way, you only have to watch animals to see this.

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Old 09-04-2009, 07:15 PM   #24
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I am vegetarian and think you have a valid point waylander at least you are prepared to kill what you eat and i respect you for that.As long as the animal does not suffer and you dont waste anything. I have read a lot on survival and being prepared and i am interested about living of the land because it is something we should all have the knowledge of who knows it could save a life.
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Old 22-02-2010, 10:26 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by waylander View Post
Point of information for the uninformed.

People that shoot/hunt/stalk/fish are far more in touch with the natural order of life and nature than people who don't.

Wild animals are free range. They have a totally natural life.
A pheasant shot on a rough shoot has had a better time on this planet than a super market chicken (by the way chickens don't actually grow in fridges-honest)

People who are critical of country sports, yet still eat meat, are kidding themselves and in my opinion are hypocrites.

A true hunter has the utmost respect for his quarry, he has learnt its ways and studied it, without this knowledge nature would not reward him with a kill.

Eating meat is natural 100%. Hunting is also natural to the human animal.

Waylander
What a crock of shit, sorry but someone has to say it.

You "enjoying" killing animals for sport isn't admirable, its moronic.
Don't for one minute try and compare yourself or what you do to the aspect of the "hunter/gatherer". What a fool you must be or anyone here that agrees with you who tries to excuse the modern past time of "hunting for fun" as "hunting for survival".

"Eating meat is 100% Natural"

Hmmm, Scientific proof please? Or is that another excuse by another mindless drone trying to excuse a blood lust without reason?

Imagine I have just appeared on this planet and you are tasked with convincing me that I need to take a knife or a gun and kill an animal to eat its flesh to survive when an over abundance of everything I need is scientifically proven to exist in plants?
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Old 22-02-2010, 11:02 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by waylander View Post
Point of information for the uninformed.

People that shoot/hunt/stalk/fish are far more in touch with the natural order of life and nature than people who don't.

Wild animals are free range. They have a totally natural life.
A pheasant shot on a rough shoot has had a better time on this planet than a super market chicken (by the way chickens don't actually grow in fridges-honest)

People who are critical of country sports, yet still eat meat, are kidding themselves and in my opinion are hypocrites.

A true hunter has the utmost respect for his quarry, he has learnt its ways and studied it, without this knowledge nature would not reward him with a kill.

Eating meat is natural 100%. Hunting is also natural to the human animal.

Waylander
there are a few points to consider when making a post about hunting game and or animals .

did you know that the reason why mankind has various blood types is because of the introduction to meats ? there is very strong evidence to support this too .

at 1st ( if we believe the puzzle of man kinds origin ) man was a monkey , or so they say , some type of upright monkey .
thus mankind was 1st and for most a plant eater .
it was the beginning of walking on land away from tress that gave mankind the hardships he faced for which he had to compensate to eat bugs and animals .

it was this situation they say that gave rise to the brain being larger , bit this does not mean it was natural .Im not totally disregarding other data , im just saying that this is the history we know .

from that , man also began to eat fish .

it was this that created different blood types .

hence why a person who might be AB+ , finds it harder to digest meat than a OO blood type .
it is a fact that various blood types do indeed digest meat differently , for instance , my blood type mees thinks is AB+ .
I can digest meat , but not masses of it , my metabolism gets on better with fish and plants , this i know through experience .

I wont deny that a good hunter keeps in touch with nature and picks and chooses his prey , that is true .
but ( and i do say but ) hunting isnt as productive as many think.

take the issue of survivalism for instance .

you've got to shoot and kill with one shot .
if you miss or hit a none vital part , you could easily create a situation where the animal gets away from you but dies and rots in pane .

hunting is the natural order of nature but man is not of the natural order according to today's society and living .

there is far more chances of survival learning how to gather and process roots and berries etc than hunting .
this sint an opinion , its true .

thats not to say that one should not hunt , after all , when faced with starvation , one must adapt and if only animals are the last choice of protein or any kind of food intake , it is then necessary to kill them to eat them .

better off alive than dead starving meees says .

but how long can one hunt ?
till the gun you carry gets too heavy ?
till the amo runs out ?

what then ?

learning to rely on a gun isnt a good thing .

learning to hunt ? maybe , it is a life saver as we all know .

but fail to get clued up on plant life and your fkd !

when the adventures went to Australia , a lot of them starved to death because although they had guns to shoot game etc , the place they found them self in was not full of animals , just plants .
did you know that they starved to death surrounded by edible plants ?

totally surrounded by plants they could eat , yet , because all they knew was guns and rifles , they starved to death needlessly .

Understanding guns and hunting is a good survival tactic , a must know for all , however , fail to learn how to crop and harvest plant life , could be a matter of life and death .and no amount of guns can change that .

I do understand what you are saying .
learning to hunt is good !
eating meat isnt exactly bad for you .
a good hunter keeps to the laws of nature .
all true .

but don't think that this will save your life in all situations is my point .

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Old 22-02-2010, 06:28 PM   #27
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What a crock of shit, sorry but someone has to say it.

You "enjoying" killing animals for sport isn't admirable, its moronic.
Don't for one minute try and compare yourself or what you do to the aspect of the "hunter/gatherer". What a fool you must be or anyone here that agrees with you who tries to excuse the modern past time of "hunting for fun" as "hunting for survival".

"Eating meat is 100% Natural"

Hmmm, Scientific proof please? Or is that another excuse by another mindless drone trying to excuse a blood lust without reason?

Imagine I have just appeared on this planet and you are tasked with convincing me that I need to take a knife or a gun and kill an animal to eat its flesh to survive when an over abundance of everything I need is scientifically proven to exist in plants?
That's upset me so much, I may have to go out and shoot a few dozen rabbits, to chill out.

And maybe a fox or two.

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Old 22-02-2010, 08:18 PM   #28
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I don't hunt for food, wouldn't know where to start either. However, I think it's a crime to throw uneaten meat in a bin like it's a piece of rubbish.

If an animal has lost its life to enter the food chain then it should at least be respected as such and where possible, all be eaten. Any left overs I have are readilly received by my dogs, cats and parrot. Yes, even parrots enjoy a little chicken now and again and even the bone marrow from the chicken leg bones are a favorite of his.

I just feel it's a waste of a life if it all cannot be eaten or recycled. After all, we recycle vegetable waste and that enters the food chain again doesn't it?
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Old 22-02-2010, 08:38 PM   #29
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I have always pondered over taking a dog in bad situations .
it acts as a guard dog and can help the empty tummy once plant life has run out .

you know the score , shep went to a good home and all that .
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Old 22-02-2010, 08:43 PM   #30
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I have always pondered over taking a dog in bad situations .
it acts as a guard dog and can help the empty tummy once plant life has run out .

you know the score , shep went to a good home and all that .
i think thats not a bad idea tbh tracker, they guard you , find you food , pick it from where you can't get it are loyal and if you have a dog like a lurcher they will even catch it for you

not much meat on a lurcher though
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Old 23-02-2010, 10:19 AM   #31
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I watched that 3/4 part documentry last year about ed mardle who attempted to survive in the wilderness in canada for 3 months. The reason why he didnt last out was that he was not allowed to hunt (i think they are different laws if you come from outside Canada) and he could not find the salmon run. He became disorniented and week because of the lack of protein that his ration packs and berries/roots could not provide. He had the books and interviewed people before he went out there on exactly what he could and couldnt eat.
The problem with surviving on just berries,leaves etc they are usually very seasonal and only available for a short time. Which would leave only roots to eat in winter. Mushroom/fungi, whos know whether its safe to eat and you hardly get any energy/benefit from eating a mushroom anyway.
Look at the native tribes around the world when they kill an animal nothing goes to waste and they usually do a ritual to say thankyou for the animal. If you come accross a wild animal and need it for food then I have no problem with you taking it as long as you do it justice.
Hunting should be considered an important aspect of survival (i know everyone doesnt eat meat).
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Old 23-02-2010, 12:28 PM   #32
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I watched that 3/4 part documentry last year about ed mardle who attempted to survive in the wilderness in canada for 3 months. The reason why he didnt last out was that he was not allowed to hunt (i think they are different laws if you come from outside Canada) and he could not find the salmon run. He became disorniented and week because of the lack of protein that his ration packs and berries/roots could not provide. He had the books and interviewed people before he went out there on exactly what he could and couldnt eat.
The problem with surviving on just berries,leaves etc they are usually very seasonal and only available for a short time. Which would leave only roots to eat in winter. Mushroom/fungi, whos know whether its safe to eat and you hardly get any energy/benefit from eating a mushroom anyway.
Look at the native tribes around the world when they kill an animal nothing goes to waste and they usually do a ritual to say thankyou for the animal. If you come accross a wild animal and need it for food then I have no problem with you taking it as long as you do it justice.
Hunting should be considered an important aspect of survival (i know everyone doesnt eat meat).

wrong !

the only thing he didnt hunt was deer which was protected .

he starved mostly because he rellied on hunting actually .

1 ) he spent most of his time day dreaming in his hammock tent

2 ) spent loads of time making fires and sitting around them talking to a camera

3 ) carried too much kit

4 ) did not have enough knowledge of local plant life .

5 ) although he knew some of the plant life he only took berries thus his knowledhe was indeed limited .

6 ) he spent loads of time wondering about like an idiot looking for fish ( as you have mentioned )

7 ) when he didnt find any fish he still took ALL DAY fishing there thus waisted a good 13 hours doing jack ! despite thatfact he knew no fish were there .

the point im making is this , missout on plant knowledge and your fked ! relly on hunting only like that dude did in the film and your fkd !

I know

i watched it .

Infact my self and wazaap commented on this program over the phone at regualr intervals and the comments above are our observations made from that , we both saw that , we both saw what his callosal mistakes were .


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Old 23-02-2010, 03:05 PM   #33
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^^^^^ I agree tracker......... The man did not seem to know what he got hes self into, and seemd to go on a total downer after a day or two. In my mind thats not someone who likes nature and is familiar with it. Watch the tv series what i posted on another thread with "lars monsen" - He actually saw a bear and was over the moon, the other man seen one and shit hes self lol...... Totally diffrent mind sets at play.......... Alot of survival is mental prepardness aswell, you need to be comfterble in yourself and your surroundings............ If you are not, it does not matter how much you know........


Quote:
If an animal has lost its life to enter the food chain then it should at least be respected as such and where possible, all be eaten. Any left overs I have are readilly received by my dogs, cats and parrot. Yes, even parrots enjoy a little chicken now and again and even the bone marrow from the chicken leg bones are a favorite of his.

I just feel it's a waste of a life if it all cannot be eaten or recycled. After all, we recycle vegetable waste and that enters the food chain again doesn't it?
I agree completely - The left overs from our sunday dinners get put out for the birds/rats.......Although people think they are pests ect i think all life is precious and if you can help them out, why not??

.........................................

Regarding this topic though - i eat meat so i cant say much about it, although i do agree that eating wild animals is better because there quality of life as been better than some animals which just get put in cages and fatned up to be killed.

But i dont think ALL hunters are intune with nature, alot of them are senseless killers imo and i have seen it...... Just killing for the fun of it...... People cating fish and then swinging them around the pier and haveing a good laugh about it..........

And theres a diffrence with killing for food/survival and killing for fun, Alot of people think its just a sport and in my mind i bet they would not like it - Lets get 20 or so dogs to chase after you and then tear you apart eh?????

So what i am saying is Killing out of need and with respect, i dont see a problem with. Its just the senseless killing of life which sickens me sometimes.

^I think sometimes we have been conditioned, and feel that deadened in ourselves, that we actually dont realize that the thing is alive, its life just like you and me, it is actually a real living thing, not a toy or some couch ect.... Its actually got a life force. <<< And people forget that.

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Old 23-02-2010, 10:55 PM   #34
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^^^^^ I agree tracker......... The man did not seem to know what he got hes self into, and seemd to go on a total downer after a day or two. In my mind thats not someone who likes nature and is familiar with it. Watch the tv series what i posted on another thread with "lars monsen" - He actually saw a bear and was over the moon, the other man seen one and shit hes self lol...... Totally diffrent mind sets at play.......... Alot of survival is mental prepardness aswell, you need to be comfterble in yourself and your surroundings............ If you are not, it does not matter how much you know........

I am glad you saw it .
it sounds to me as though you spotted the important part that I did forget to add .
he did indeed go on a downer after a day .
his kit was king kongs handbag lol.

mental preperations are indeed very important and I am glad you added this to the responce to that video because it is true .

I dont diss hunting , but it aint all that .

a full understanding of the stats when concerning animals and hunting is important because did you even see him try to shoot a bird ?

he missed big time and frightened most of the wild life around him away .



I will add to this however that I think that guy had guts !

he wasnt sure of things and tried it anyway .

hands up to the guy , he did what he thought was hard to do .

and in his own way lol , he proved him self right but yes , brave dude .

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Old 24-02-2010, 10:18 AM   #35
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Yes you are partly right tracker, I dont think mentally he was prepared to be away from his wife/girlfriend for a long period. He did carry too much stuff and he wasted a lot of time/energy doing unproductive things. He worried 2much about bears. He did kill porkupines etc so he did have some kind of meat, but he was drulling over the deer/moose that he was unable to kill and not finding the salmon ws the final straw for him.
I also thing most people (possibly including non meat eaters) put in that situation as Ed, having to to survive alone for a long period of time in a strange environment would carry a gun. Not least it gives you proctection from a bear. Plants, leaves and roots are great but not very useful if you were trying to survive through winter. Most survivalists, adventure types all do some kind of hunting including Dick Proenneke and Ray Mears. One of my favourate Mears moments in those excellent early survival series was cooking the deer with hot rocks in the ground (think it was on the beach) I bet that tasted good!.
All this talk of survivalling is really wetting my appetite to give it a go. Have you done any bothing Tracker in scotland (staying at various remote shelters that are free to stay in)? I stayed on Bardsey (island off wales) last year where you can have a cottage for a week without electricity. This was amazing. While I was there someone put in an offer to stay in a cottage for 3 months in the off season.so he would have been virtually alone on an island. I do wonder how he went on, theres no hiding place there in winter if you are not used to your own company, short days, long nights, bad weather and cold. He would not be allowed to use a gun there (there are no rabbits anyway) but I bet it was an amazing experience!
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Old 24-02-2010, 11:12 AM   #36
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Yes you are partly right tracker, I dont think mentally he was prepared to be away from his wife/girlfriend for a long period. He did carry too much stuff and he wasted a lot of time/energy doing unproductive things. He worried 2much about bears. He did kill porkupines etc so he did have some kind of meat, but he was drulling over the deer/moose that he was unable to kill and not finding the salmon ws the final straw for him.
I also thing most people (possibly including non meat eaters) put in that situation as Ed, having to to survive alone for a long period of time in a strange environment would carry a gun. Not least it gives you proctection from a bear. Plants, leaves and roots are great but not very useful if you were trying to survive through winter. Most survivalists, adventure types all do some kind of hunting including Dick Proenneke and Ray Mears. One of my favourate Mears moments in those excellent early survival series was cooking the deer with hot rocks in the ground (think it was on the beach) I bet that tasted good!.
All this talk of survivalling is really wetting my appetite to give it a go. Have you done any bothing Tracker in scotland (staying at various remote shelters that are free to stay in)? I stayed on Bardsey (island off wales) last year where you can have a cottage for a week without electricity. This was amazing. While I was there someone put in an offer to stay in a cottage for 3 months in the off season.so he would have been virtually alone on an island. I do wonder how he went on, theres no hiding place there in winter if you are not used to your own company, short days, long nights, bad weather and cold. He would not be allowed to use a gun there (there are no rabbits anyway) but I bet it was an amazing experience!
No Ive not done it my self .
I am very enthusiaser it and do wish to venture further into the subject which is why I do a lot of threads on it .

many years ago I was in the army but as you ca understand , survivalism isnt army training .
even the army has to pay for soldiers who wish to go on survivalist courses .
mainly in the army you are trianed to take orders , run around alot , dig and ditch hide , and most of the time rations are given to soldiers .
if they wish to do real survivalism they have to go on courses .

thats why I am not afraid ( as mentioned in my news letter ) to let folks know just how much I was amazed / surprised at how much i didnt know compared to wazaap and mariantisocial .

Im all for learning and am looking forward to this year if any trips are made .

but you can guarentee one thing , I wont be bringing a gun

the best way actually IMO , is to learn with out even a knife .

to bare hand it as they say , start from scratch
like finding flint and making an axe from that .
one couldlearn how to make a home made cross bow eventually but that takes time . spears , axes , cross bows , throwing spears that use sticks to launch , all need to be learned .

starting from jack , and ending up a grizzly adams --- now thats my aim , but for now , its me taking
tarps/sleeping bags/compass/1st aid kits / all the normal stuff .

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Old 24-02-2010, 11:48 AM   #37
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No Ive not done it my self .
I am very enthusiaser it and do wish to venture further into the subject which is why I do a lot of threads on it .

many years ago I was in the army but as you ca understand , survivalism isnt army training .
even the army has to pay for soldiers who wish to go on survivalist courses .
mainly in the army you are trianed to take orders , run around alot , dig and ditch hide , and most of the time rations are given to soldiers .
if they wish to do real survivalism they have to go on courses .

thats why I am not afraid ( as mentioned in my news letter ) to let folks know just how much I was amazed / surprised at how much i didnt know compared to wazaap and mariantisocial .

Im all for learning and am looking forward to this year if any trips are made .

but you can guarentee one thing , I wont be bringing a gun

the best way actually IMO , is to learn with out even a knife .

to bare hand it as they say , start from scratch
like finding flint and making an axe from that .
one couldlearn how to make a home made cross bow eventually but that takes time . spears , axes , cross bows , throwing spears that use sticks to launch , all need to be learned .

starting from jack , and ending up a grizzly adams --- now thats my aim , but for now , its me taking
tarps/sleeping bags/compass/1st aid kits / all the normal stuff .


Question for you Tracker. How or why do you ever see yourself in this position in the Uk in the future ???
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Old 24-02-2010, 06:33 PM   #38
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Question for you Tracker. How or why do you ever see yourself in this position in the Uk in the future ???
I only see my self adapting to the situation .

this however has no implications upon my wish to learn how to survive and hunt with out guns .

I can use them ------profesionally .

it is this very reason why I only use them in extreme curcumstances .

learning survivalism doesnt warrent handling a gun .

armagedon maybe ?

but not simple survival trips because this is what my remark is based upon . survival trips and activities , not armogedon lol

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Old 26-02-2010, 10:48 PM   #39
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I only see my self adapting to the situation .

this however has no implications upon my wish to learn how to survive and hunt with out guns .

I can use them ------profesionally .

it is this very reason why I only use them in extreme curcumstances .

learning survivalism doesnt warrent handling a gun .

armagedon maybe ?

but not simple survival trips because this is what my remark is based upon . survival trips and activities , not armogedon lol
I thought the idea was to learn and get and edge if the shtf ??? Making axes from flint is not going to give you an edge. !!

Do you realize the amount of shit you will be able to scavenge on the edge of forests and in rural locations>

Fly tipping at the moment is a curse to the countryside, but If it goes tits up that fly tipping may just save your life. Im talking about wooded areas with tracks. There is a place I often go for a walkabout and every week a new burnt out car appears or some kant fly tips. Now in the present climate that is shit, but in a different climate that could be gold dust

So I think you would never need to make a flint axe unless its for your own amusement, and especially in a real life situation

Do you think if it seriously goes tits up that you will not need a weapon ??
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Old 26-02-2010, 11:27 PM   #40
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I thought the idea was to learn and get and edge if the shtf ??? Making axes from flint is not going to give you an edge. !!


entrangermercenary I have to tell you before this keeps going on and on . I Know how to profesionally use a weapon or two , this includes from the bottom
Air pistals
air rifles
33 Bren
7.62mm ( both SLR and GPMG )
SA80 ( 5.52mm)
and yes ( the amreican M16 )
Sub machine guns
Milan anti tank
USAGE of Clamor and other party poppers. Including home made ones .

and just a bit more like
cross bows
sling shots
bow and arrow
I even know how to make a cross bow out of tent poles and make them my self .

so can you now see why I do not go on and on about guns ? why dont you make a thread about guns and rifles and I will get involved and tell all I know .I will do what I can to bring as much info as possible to it which will include personal experience .

But this thread isnt about GUNS ,

This thread is about hunting animals , how natural it is and , how a good hunter is in tune with nature .


Quote:
Originally Posted by entrangermercenary View Post
Do you realize the amount of shit you will be able to scavenge on the edge of forests and in rural locations>
but,

Quote:
Originally Posted by entrangermercenary View Post
Fly tipping at the moment is a curse to the countryside, but If it goes tits up that fly tipping may just save your life. Im talking about wooded areas with tracks.
but


Quote:
Originally Posted by entrangermercenary View Post
There is a place I often go for a walkabout and every week a new burnt out car appears or some kant fly tips. Now in the present climate that is shit, but in a different climate that could be gold dust
I know , but ?



Quote:
Originally Posted by entrangermercenary View Post
So I think you would never need to make a flint axe unless its for your own amusement, and especially in a real life situation
BUT



Every body razzle dazzle

.

Last edited by tracker; 27-02-2010 at 10:22 AM.
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