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Old 20-03-2010, 07:00 PM   #41
lightindarkness
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Thanks zero1. Your responses are always the least condescending to a newbie on this spiritual path. I appreciate all the responses to my OP , really opens my mind to the different schools of thought.

So zero1, I took your advice and did the research on your lead. I am probably going to be blasted for this, probably from the actual, assumed or imagined highest degree of masons that post on these forums, but here goes...

My prelimanary deduction (from skimmed research), is that - Freemasonry is Maat. For lack of time I won't go into the detail of why I've come to this conclusion as I think the information is readily available.

That's it until further contradictory research proves otherwise...

Thanks
GG
I find it quite interesting that freemasons themselves have directly answered your questions and yet you just keep on going down this path of trying to figure out what freemasonry "is"...now you've decided its Maat.

Nope. Not Maat. No connection to any egyptian diety. Never has been.

So, again, I will tell you the 100% truth, which will be ignored, again, because it isn't as sexy as Maat:

Freemasonry is a secular fraternity devoted to the study of esoteric philosophy. The types of esoteric philosophy study concern the nature of men, which is: that we are all equal as human beings and have an innate right to freedom of thought and religion. In that vein, we do some charity.

That is what Freemasonry is. Not Maat. Not anything else.

But hey, what do I know, being a freemason and all - of the highest and most authoritative degree, the 3rd degree. But you'd rather believe people who think there are magical higher level masons that don't exist because its what you want to believe.

This is the biggest secret in all of Freemasonry: That freemasons themselves can come on here, and tell you the whole truth, and that you will ignore them because it isn't as sexy as you want to believe. You'd rather believe someone who tell you stories about mythical "high degrees" and "red lodges" that don't exist. And this is why, though we have no real secrets in this fraternity, that our knowledge is truly guarded well. The truth is so simple that people refuse to believe it and would rather believe in lies.

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Old 20-03-2010, 07:42 PM   #42
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Freemasonry is ...[snip by stewart for dramatic effect].... devoted to the study of esoteric philosophy. The types of esoteric philosophy study concern the nature of men
Looks like I have written a couple of masonic books then
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Old 20-03-2010, 08:33 PM   #43
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what happened to the grand secretary?

has he been bumped off by tptp?
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Old 20-03-2010, 08:47 PM   #44
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I find it quite interesting that freemasons themselves have directly answered your questions and yet you just keep on going down this path of trying to figure out what freemasonry "is"...now you've decided its Maat.

Nope. Not Maat. No connection to any egyptian diety. Never has been.

So, again, I will tell you the 100% truth, which will be ignored, again, because it isn't as sexy as Maat:

Freemasonry is a secular fraternity devoted to the study of esoteric philosophy. The types of esoteric philosophy study concern the nature of men, which is: that we are all equal as human beings and have an innate right to freedom of thought and religion. In that vein, we do some charity.

That is what Freemasonry is. Not Maat. Not anything else.

But hey, what do I know, being a freemason and all - of the highest and most authoritative degree, the 3rd degree. But you'd rather believe people who think there are magical higher level masons that don't exist because its what you want to believe.

This is the biggest secret in all of Freemasonry: That freemasons themselves can come on here, and tell you the whole truth, and that you will ignore them because it isn't as sexy as you want to believe. You'd rather believe someone who tell you stories about mythical "high degrees" and "red lodges" that don't exist. And this is why, though we have no real secrets in this fraternity, that our knowledge is truly guarded well. The truth is so simple that people refuse to believe it and would rather believe in lies.
Are you 1 of those harvey type characters.................................sorry I got you confused with lamb chops.







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Not Maat. No connection to any EGYPTIAN diety. Never has been.

That is what Freemasonry is. Not Maat. Not anything else.

The truth is so simple that people refuse to believe it and would rather believe in lies.[/b]
Sons Of Maat,

Writing about the Udjet, the Egyptian eye-symbol Bauval cites Rundle Clark (Myth and Symbol in Ancient Egypt). The reconstruction of the eye symbolised the return of the full moon and ultimately the cosmic order, known as Ma'at:

"I am seeking the Eye of Horus, that I might bring it back and count it.I am Thoth who brings back Maat.I am he who returns the Udjet Eye, I am he who abolishes its dimness, when its brightness was damaged.in the House of the Moon."

Here we have unquestionable Masonic principles the eye, the moon, the dimness and the quest for light and the cosmic order.

More Masonic references emerge on pages 94-95 where Bauval states:

"The principal tenets of the ancient temple cult and the Pharaonic state that administered it were that during this golden age of the gods a system of 'cosmic law' called Maat had been established by Osiris, and that it was the duty and function of his son Horus and all successive Horus-kings to ensure that Maat was upheld and kept unchanged through the ages. As the ancient texts proclaim:

"Great is Maat, enduring is its effectiveness, for it has not been changed since the time of Osiris (i.e. the First time)."

With the ceremonies and ritual of Freemasonry are we seeing a more modern assumption of this Osirian command. Do Freemasons see themselves as the sons of Maat? Ma'at's sons.

Could this be the reason for the fervid adoration of all things Egyptian and especially the concentration upon Osiris and Horus?

Wallis Budge author of The Gods of the Egyptians says that Maat is:

".the personification of law, order, rule, truth, right, righteousness, canon, justice, straightness, integrity, uprightness and the highest conception of physical and moral law known to the Egyptians."

http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/myste...tory/maat.html

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Old 20-03-2010, 08:55 PM   #45
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Are you 1 of those harvey type characters.................................sorry I got you confused with lamb chops.





Do you choose to remain willfully ignorant, or are you trolling?

Thats a decorating style, its called Egyptian Revival. It was quite popular in the Victorian era, and lots of people decorating tons of things in it that had nothing to do with Egypt. By the way, where is Maat in there? No where to be found...but I guess in twisted CT logic, because some lodge room some where decorated in a popular Egyptian style, that must mean Maat is the secret of freemasonry!

Do you believe that every building with Greek columns is worshiping Zeus too?

Next you'll find the Scottish Rite degree that uses Egyptian deities as characters and tell me its an Isis cult.

Try again. No Maat. You won't find it, because it isn't something Freemasonry concerns itself with.

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Old 20-03-2010, 08:58 PM   #46
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Do you choose to remain willfully ignorant, or are you trolling?

Thats a decorating style, its called Egyptian Revival. It was quite popular in the Victorian era, and lots of people decorating tons of things in it that had nothing to do with Egypt. By the way, where is Maat in there? No where to be found...but I guess in twisted CT logic, because some lodge room some where decorated in a popular Egyptian style, that must mean Maat is the secret of freemasonry!

Do you believe that every building with Greek columns is worshiping Zeus too?

Next you'll find the Scottish Rite degree that uses Egyptian deities as characters and tell me its an Isis cult.
The 2nd oldest lodge in the world Just for Revival, LOL that is a good one.


Maybe it is you who is ignorant ETC ETC,

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Old 20-03-2010, 09:01 PM   #47
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The 2nd oldest lodge in the world Just for Revival, LOL that is a good one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Lodge_of_Ireland
The Grand Lodge of Ireland has dozens of lodge rooms decorated in an equal number of varying motiffs. That room was not decorating as such until Egyptian Revival became a popular decorating style. The actual lodge room that the Grand Lodge uses for its actual meetings isn't that one - its too small.

By the way, Egyptian Revival lodge rooms are quite popular. If you are going to embrace the lie about Maat you should have at least copy and pasted the one in the Scottish Rite's headquarters, its much prettier AND would let you continue to spread the lie about all those "high degree" freemasons that don't actually exist.

You will believe anything except the truth, won't you?


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Old 20-03-2010, 09:04 PM   #48
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The Grand Lodge of Ireland has dozens of lodge rooms decorated in an equal number of varying motiffs. That room was not decorating as such until Egyptian Revival became a popular decorating style. The actual lodge room that the Grand Lodge uses for its actual meetings isn't that one - its too small.

By the way, Egyptian Revival lodge rooms are quite popular. If you are going to embrace the lie about Maat you should have at least copy and pasted the one in the Scottish Rite's headquarters, its much prettier AND would let you continue to spread the lie about all those "high degree" freemasons that don't actually exist.

You will believe anything except the truth, won't you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptia...l_architecture


Somehow I do not believe you,

I feel Freemasonry or freemasonrie has everything to do with Egypt,anyone can see that.

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Old 20-03-2010, 09:11 PM   #49
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Somehow I do not believe you,

I feel Freemasonry or freemasonrie has everything to do with Egypt,anyone can see that.
As I said - you never will believe the truth. Freemasonry has no strong connection with Egypt and never has.There is 0 relationship with "Maat." If it did, there would be no problem admitting it - it wouldn't matter. Lots of lodges are decorated in the style of the day they were built - including Egyptian revival. There are also lodges decorated in Greek Revival and every other architecture type.

A few side orders, including the Scottish Rite, have one or two degrees that have Egyptian themes. That is the entire extent of "egypt" in freemasonry.

But because you would rather believe lies, no amount of evidence will convince you. Because freemasons surely have no idea whats going on in their own fraternity, but conspiracy sites you find on google know the "real truth" of course

Ignored.

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Old 20-03-2010, 09:16 PM   #50
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Nice.

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Gesundheit, Lightgiver, appreciate that; good to see another address this.

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Old 20-03-2010, 09:17 PM   #51
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Default Origins of Freemasonry: Ancient Egypt

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Originally Posted by lightindarkness View Post
As I said - you never will believe the truth. Freemasonry has no strong connection with Egypt and never has.There is 0 relationship with "Maat." If it did, there would be no problem admitting it - it wouldn't matter. Lots of lodges are decorated in the style of the day they were built - including Egyptian revival. There are also lodges decorated in Greek Revival and every other architecture type.

A few side orders, including the Scottish Rite, have one or two degrees that have Egyptian themes. That is the entire extent of "egypt" in freemasonry.

But because you would rather believe lies, no amount of evidence will convince you. Because freemasons surely have no idea whats going on in their own fraternity, but conspiracy sites you find on google know the "real truth" of course

Ignored.
It is you who are telling lies,or you are blissfully unaware or are trying to dissuade.

Origins of Freemasonry: Ancient Egypt(and Beyond)

According to Masonic historians, Freemasonry is based on the principles and values of ancient Egypt.

The most important principle of the Freemasons that is traced to ancient Egypt is the belief in materialist evolution. This theory of evolution is based on the belief that the universe exists by and of itself, evolving only by chance. In this theory of evolution, matter was always extant, and the world originated when order arose from chaos. This state of chaos was referred to as Nun. A latent, creative force exists within this state of disorder which has the potential to rise above the disorder.

Another philosophical connection established between the ancient Egyptians and the Freemasons is believed to be the common rituals associated with death and burial practices. Specifically, the link between ancient Egypt and the Masons can be found in the text known as The Book of the Dead. This text’s original title is in fact The Book of Coming Forth by Day. It is an ancient Egyptian funerary text that outlines instructions for the afterlife.

Contrary to popular belief, The Book of Coming Forth by Day does not instruct individuals on how to raise the dead in order to escape death, but rather provides instructions for the afterlife. These instructions, in the form of spells, were used by the Egyptian elite for their burial practices. In addition, spells were offered as gifts to the gods, for healing such ailments as the inability to walk, and to prevent death during the afterlife. The ultimate aim of The Book of Coming Forth by Day was to enable the individual to overcome the hardships and obstacles

Furthermore, members of the Freemasons are believed to consider themselves to be special heirs of the people of ancient Egypt, a belief that experts have attributed to the philosophical commonality between the Freemasons of today and the ancient Egyptians.

According to some experts, these principles and theories were adopted by the Freemasons, and were incorporated into the moral and metaphysical ideals espoused by members of Freemasonry.

Freemasonry in Egypt developed alongside that of the Ottoman Empire. The Scottish Rite of the Freemasons was founded in 1886 by Halim Pasha, the son of the first viceroy of Egypt. Its development flourished until the 1950s when it fell from popularity during the dethronement of King Farouk and was closed after the 1956 Seuz Crisis.



The Hiram Key,

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57412

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Old 20-03-2010, 09:28 PM   #52
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According to Masonic historians, Freemasonry is based on the principles and values of ancient Egypt.
Of course it is; real Freemasonry is pre-Davidic. Any reputable scholar or historian knows this. Even Grand Secretary on here knew this.

One cannot expect the low-level Masons (UGLE Blues and their like) on here to know; they lie from ignorance, mostly. But also to lie from malice? Possibly, but I doubt it.
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Old 20-03-2010, 09:31 PM   #53
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Of course it is; real Freemasonry is pre-Davidic. Any reputable scholar or historian knows this. Even Grand Secretary on here knew this.

One cannot expect the low-level Masons (UGLE Blues and their like) on here to know; they lie from ignorance, mostly. But also to lie from malice? Possibly, but I doubt it.
You do not even have to be a reputable scholar or historian to know it,it is obvious

The Papyrus Of Ani.:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ebod/ebod12.htm

and not forgetting the other room,LOL



in Bristol.

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Old 20-03-2010, 09:48 PM   #54
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Default The Chamber of the Sphinx

(Source: The Symbolic Prophecy of the Great Pyramid (Plate V) By H. Spencer Lewis, Former Imperator of the Rosicrucian Order)



"Art thou, dwellers of the outer darkness where ignorance dwelleth, praying admittance into our sacred Temple to seek the Light of Initiation?" The candidates nodded affirmatively responding: "Yes, we are". Then he said, "The Path to initiation is treacherous and filled with trials and temptation. Art thou willing to take it?".


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Old 20-03-2010, 10:21 PM   #55
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As I said - you never will believe the truth. Freemasonry has no strong connection with Egypt and never has.There is 0 relationship with "Maat." If it did, there would be no problem admitting it - it wouldn't matter. Lots of lodges are decorated in the style of the day they were built - including Egyptian revival. There are also lodges decorated in Greek Revival and every other architecture type.

A few side orders, including the Scottish Rite, have one or two degrees that have Egyptian themes. That is the entire extent of "egypt" in freemasonry.

But because you would rather believe lies, no amount of evidence will convince you. Because freemasons surely have no idea whats going on in their own fraternity, but conspiracy sites you find on google know the "real truth" of course

Ignored.
I must say, this guy 'LightinDarkness' is priceless! It's all just a matter of who was the hot interior decorator at the time, and which motif was popular....Nothing to see here...move along.... Again, with Mr. Lightin' evidence is only valid if he or any of his cohorts on the JREF "skeptics" (ROFL)
deem it so....

However one thing is abundantly clear...The fact that he has not been banned, as almost all of those who disagree with the so called "skeptics" at JREF are in a matter of weeks, is evidence of which one of these forums is really about getting to the TRUTH, and which one is there for the obvious purpose of protecting the LIES!! I also notice the respect that he is being shown here on these threads, which reflects positively on the gracious nature of the membership here.

On JREF Mr. Lightin' is one of a frothing, rabid, smarmy bunch of attack dogs who immediately ratpack every new member they disagree with and do what they can to get him banned from their little circle jerk.


Thanks boys and girls...
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Old 20-03-2010, 10:27 PM   #56
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Default Truth

I feel Dim Light should pay this Pillar a visit.


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Old 20-03-2010, 10:35 PM   #57
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You do not even have to be a reputable scholar or historian to know it, it is obvious
True.

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in Bristol.
Ah, thanks.
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Old 21-03-2010, 12:57 AM   #58
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True.

Ah, thanks.
Another 1 for you http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Gesundheit.ogg

ANCIENT EGYPT : The Ten Keys of Hermes Trismegistos:

The link between Egyptian wisdom, under the guise of Hermetism, Christianity and Islam is also pertinent and often forgotten.

"The mystical powers of Hermes exerted themselves far beyond the Pagan world of Late Antiquity, transmuting medieval Christian and Islamic understanding of the relationship between rational knowledge and revelation."
Green, 1992, p.85.

"Do You not know, Asclepius, that Egypt is an image of heaven, or, to speak more exactly, in Egypt all the operations of the powers which rule and work in heaven have been transferred to Earth below ?"

Asclepius III, 24b.

http://www.maat.sofiatopia.org/ten_keys.htm

Hermes Trismegistus

The alleged teacher the magical system known as Hermetism of which high magic and alchemy are thought to be twin branches. The name Trismegistus means thrice greatest Hermes, and is the title given by the Greeks to the Egyptian god Thoth or Tehuti, a lord of wisdom and learning.

At one time the Greeks thought two gods inseparable. Thoth governed over mystical wisdom, magic, writing and other disciplines and was associated with healing, while Hermes was the personification of universal wisdom and the patron of magic.

The myths go further. Both gods are associated with sacred writings. As scribe for the gods, Thoth was credited with all the sacred books. In various Egyptian writings he is called "twice very great" and "five times very great." Hermes is credited with writing 20,000 books by Iamblichus (ca. 250-300 BC), a Neo-platonic Syrian philosopher, and over 36,000 books by Manetho (ca. 300 BC), an Egyptian priest who wrote the history of Egypt in Greek, perhaps for Ptolemy I.

The combined myths of these gods report that both Thoth and Hermes revealed to humankind the healing arts, magic, writing, astrology, science, and philosophy. Thoth wrote the record of the weighing of the souls in the Judgment Hall of Osiris. Hermes led the souls of the dead to Hades.

The English occultist Francis Barrett in Biographia Antiqua wrote that Hermes "communicated the sum of the Abyss, and divine knowledge to all posterity"

According to legend Hermes Trismegistus is said to have provided the wisdom of light in the ancient mysteries of Egypt. "He carried an emerald, upon which was recorded all of philosophy, and the caduceus, the symbol of mystical illumination. Hermes Trismegistus vanquished Typhon, the dragon of ignorance, and mental, moral and physical perversion."

Surviving Hermes Trismegistus is the wisdom of the Hermetica, 42 books that have profoundly influenced the development of Western occultism and magic. A.G.H.

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Old 21-03-2010, 02:20 AM   #59
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I had words with Lightindarkness in the other thread about Jay-z. He doesnt appear to be the sharpest tool in the shed
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Old 21-03-2010, 07:46 AM   #60
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As I said - you never will believe the truth.
But how do you know the truth when different freemasons contradict each other so often? (eg higher orders, pikes relevance, the amount of inner work required, how long to 32nd degree etc etc). The harsh reality is that freemasons are neither trusted nor credible in some sectors of society. Sad, but you reap what you sow and all that. Having fallen into darkness myself c15 years ago now I do sympathise with the masonic plight.

Quote:
Freemasonry has no strong connection with Egypt and never has.
Ever visited a lodge named after an Egyptian Diety? If you are in London you wont have far to travel to visit them (note plural and they are most likely older than you).

Quote:
There is 0 relationship with "Maat."
So Freemasonry has nothing to do with truth, justice, harmony, etc.. Ok thanks for clearing that up lightindarkness.


Quote:
If it did, there would be no problem admitting it - it wouldn't matter.
Pity I must be misinformed about what freemasonry is all about - you know the theory. Stuff that some call mummery.


Quote:
Lots of lodges are decorated in the style of the day they were built - including Egyptian revival. There are also lodges decorated in Greek Revival and every other architecture type.
You may be suprised to know that I agree with you here lightindarkness. Even UGLEs GQS Egyptian Temple doesnt have the energetic ambiance of some lodges (unlike the one in the old grand secretaries office) [dont get me wrong it is a nice temple it just didnt "do it" for me - but as one mason explained to me it could be that the tyling was effective and the energy temple was properly deconstructed after use].

* Note to non masonic members here. Some masons truly believe that tyling is all about keeping people out who shouldnt be in the lodge. Other masons do see tyling as this and as being keeping bad energy out to enable the lodge to build an energy temple. Though from my personal experience they are not the bad boys that some fear, in fact they tend to be the most masonic in terms of the tenets. You occassionally find masons talking about energy issues in lodge on masonic forums, though ugle and amity masons tend to give them a hard time (perhaps no suprise there). In many ways such esoteric lodges are very similar to many of the people here and the new age. Many ugle and amity masons will tell you that they are not masonic but I prefer to judge by people actions and not by their words. If you visit the masonic forums that I have been on you will occasionally come across masons discuss such matters seriously.

I do understand from a very good source that large tranches of the masonic world find it politically unacceptable to talk about such things, which is a real shame. I can understand why, out of fear of conspiracy theorists (but plenty of masons have written about such things) and perhpas out of political sensitivities given that Egypt and the Near East are not perhaps the biggest supporters of Freemasonry in our world today. But it does mean that the masonic world has internal darkness and division, and us on the outside dont know who to believe, the various masonic authors who have published on esoterics or the masons, who often hide behind screen names, who deny it.

Its about time that the masonic world grew some balls.






While it related to the "higher order" issues Kadoshs words remain relevant here
Quote:
There is some fundamental misunderstanding being applied here (through lack of internal Masonic knowledge unfortunately
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