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Old 08-02-2018, 03:38 PM   #1
surfsteve
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Default A new look at coffee

Seems like whether coffee is good or bad for you is getting battered around like it was a ping pong ball. Before I get into it and do any research I figured I'd just collect my thoughts in this post.

It's been a few years since I looked into coffee. I guess more than that because the last thing I remember was watching a TV show and they were saying that it was "boiled" coffee that was bad for you and that it caused heart disease by clogging up your arteries.

At the time I accepted it because it was on Discovery or some such channel that was gospel before the internet took over. It might have been 60 Minutes. I can't remember for sure. Anyway. I was thinking about it today and it doesn't make sense or at least requires more investigation. What difference should boiling coffee make? Coffee doesn't even have any cholesterol in it; so how can it cause your arteries to clog up?

You don't hear much about coffee causing heart disease anymore. Why is that? Could boiling the coffee till it tastes like battery acid be responsible for making it so that it damages your arteries and the body be using cholesterol to repair them?

These are the things I'd like to know!
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Old 08-02-2018, 03:54 PM   #2
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For starters, I googled coffee and heart disease and was surprised at what I found. Or rather what I didn't. It seems coffee has done another complete 180 degree turn around in the last generation and the top results are not only in favor of it not causing heart disease but also suggesting that it prevents it!

Seems like everything on the internet flip flops. One day it's good. The next day it's bad. It depends on who you ask. You'd think with all this data available it would be easy getting down to the truth; but if anything, everyday facts have become more confusing than ever! I'll bet there are more people alive today than back in Columbus's time who believe the world is flat and that it's all due to the internet!
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Old 08-02-2018, 04:06 PM   #3
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For starters, I googled coffee and heart disease and was surprised at what I found. Or rather what I didn't. It seems coffee has done another complete 180 degree turn around in the last generation and the top results are not only in favor of it not causing heart disease but also suggesting that it prevents it!

Seems like everything on the internet flip flops. One day it's good. The next day it's bad. It depends on who you ask. You'd think with all this data available it would be easy getting down to the truth; but if anything, everyday facts have become more confusing than ever! I'll bet there are more people alive today than back in Columbus's time who believe the world is flat and that it's all due to the internet!
Yeah, same with red wine, the ole good for you, bad for you flip flopping. I just consume what I like, within reason and moderation.

I'd say from personal experience that overdoing it on the coffee can put a strain on the heart, not necessarily from the drink itself, but from the effects of being "wired" all the time.

.

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Old 08-02-2018, 04:07 PM   #4
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OK so the TV show I saw some time back seems to be right. I googled “boiled coffee” and heart disease and got completely different results, and all the top ones are suggesting a link between “boiled” or “Scandinavian” style coffee and heart disease.

I guess the next thing to do is to try and find up how boiling can turn something that is supposed to be heart healthy into something that allegedly causes heart disease! Got me wondering. What's so special about coffee? Couldn't the same thing also be true of other foods?
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Old 08-02-2018, 04:13 PM   #5
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I think it is a deliberate ploy on the part of the controllers to constantly give us contradictory advice as this creates a paralysing cognitive dissonance where people no longer know up from down

We can counter this by simply exercising common sense

All things in moderation and also if we stick to organic produce then at least we can rule out the negative effect of external factors such as pesticides that might also affect a product negatively

A coffee to kick start your day is not going to cause you any harm but drinking it non stop every day is probably going to throw your body out of whack
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:22 PM   #6
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http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content...5/607.full.pdf

In this study subjects were given boiled coffee, filtered boiled coffee and no coffee. There was only a slight difference between boiled and almost no difference in the no coffee group, suggesting that the boiled coffee is mostly hype. Got a feeling that coffee companies and makers of coffee machines have had a larger impact on the studies, than the studies themselves.

Quote:
Several studies have reported on the hypercholesterolemic effect of boiled coffee; this effect is eliminated by filtration of the coffee through a paper filter.
Quote:
Observations on Norwegian men and women, most of whom consumed boiled coffee, suggested that coffee may affect mortality from coronary heart disease over and above its effect in raising
cholesterol concentration.
Wishy washy!
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
I think it is a deliberate ploy on the part of the controllers to constantly give us contradictory advice as this creates a paralysing cognitive dissonance where people no longer know up from down

We can counter this by simply exercising common sense

All things in moderation and also if we stick to organic produce then at least we can rule out the negative effect of external factors such as pesticides that might also affect a product negatively

A coffee to kick start your day is not going to cause you any harm but drinking it non stop every day is probably going to throw your body out of whack
The only thing I would disagree with is what you said about organic. These days organic may be just as bad and in some cases even worse because organic farmers are allowed to use organic pesticides. Fluoride is one such organic pesticide and I consider it to be worse than many of the pesticides that organic farmers are not allowed to use!
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:08 PM   #8
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The only thing I would disagree with is what you said about organic. These days organic may be just as bad and in some cases even worse because organic farmers are allowed to use organic pesticides. Fluoride is one such organic pesticide and I consider it to be worse than many of the pesticides that organic farmers are not allowed to use!
nothing would surprise me these days steve
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:20 PM   #9
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nothing would surprise me these days steve
YEP!

Fluoride: The Hidden Poison in the National Organic Standards

By Ellen and Paul Connett, Ph.D.
Quote:
Introduction

The US Department of Agriculture's (USDA) revised rule on National Organic Standards (NOS), proposed in March 2000, was finalized in December. For the most part, the standards have been written with care and integrity. For the rest, they attracted over 40,000 comments from the public. The standards were first proposed in 1997 and included proposals to use sewage sludge, irradiation, antibiotics in livestock, and genetically modified organisms. USDA withdrew the proposal after receiving over 275,000 comments from the public-- the most comments received on any US agency proposal in history.

In the main the public's efforts on this issue paid off well. In the final NOS the four practices listed above were out, but unfortunately, despite over 100 comments, those concerned about fluoride were ignored. Incredibly, the new standards allow the use of the toxic substance sodium fluoride in organic agriculture.

Fluoride is a persistent and non-degradable poison that accumulates in soil, plants, wildlife, and humans. Many organic farmers may be unaware that this highly toxic substance has been allowed for use in the NOS, because its presence is hidden. However, it is there:
https://www.organicconsumers.org/old...c/flouride.php
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:24 PM   #10
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YEP!

Fluoride: The Hidden Poison in the National Organic Standards

By Ellen and Paul Connett, Ph.D.]
there's also an issue over what water they spray over the crops. I think i read something a while back about how waste water was sprayed on some crops in california and that the water was contaminated

also if we consider that all land is being sprayed with chemtrails then we can factor in contaminants from that too

So i agree that things are not black and white with this thing but at the same time i feel that while voting is largely a waste of time we can shape the world with how we spend our money

Each pound or dollar or ruble or whatever we spend IS a vote for what kind of world we want to live in.

So i think we should publicise any problems we see with organic while at the same time as far as our finances can manage seek to support those oraganic growers out there who are trying to do the right thing
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:36 PM   #11
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Getting back to coffee I don't think the difference lies in whether it's boiled or not. Especially since they can virtually eliminate the difference by filtering with a coffee filter. Perhaps it's something else in the coffee that's bad. Could it be due to the fact that it's roasted and that all charred foods increase heart disease?
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:44 PM   #12
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Getting back to coffee I don't think the difference lies in whether it's boiled or not. Especially since they can virtually eliminate the difference by filtering with a coffee filter. Perhaps it's something else in the coffee that's bad. Could it be due to the fact that it's roasted and that all charred foods increase heart disease?
being a stimulant it is going to get the old ticker working harder

so isn't that part of the issue: strain on the heart by over stimulation? There may well be more but that is surely a factor

Also people who run on coffee might not be giving their body the other nutrients it needs? People who live like that will have to pay the piper at some point
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Old 11-02-2018, 02:33 AM   #13
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Both good points about what is bad about coffee. Guess I should have said I was referring to the difference between boiled coffee and filtered coffee.
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:48 AM   #14
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It's Well understood coffee is not good ...caffeine is a toxin put in the beans by the plant to stop bugs eating it!!!

It's a billion $ industry ....don't you think the sellers are going to finance 'research' to prove that it's good for you ...Youtube is full of videos of people who gave up and the effect it had ....no ones paying them , they have no reason to lie.

http://

http://

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