Vegan vs Meat Eating Mega Thread

[zarah]

Question:

Why eat meat, dairy, eggs?

I'd really appreciate some feedback.

[vegan_on_the_land]

Good decision!

Why do people eat those things? Mostly from habit and because they like the taste. Some believe they need them. But we don't need them, as all the healthy vegans prove.

[weeman]

Originally Posted by zarah

Question:

Why eat meat, dairy, eggs?

I'd really appreciate some feedback.

Personally, I simply cannot grow enough veg to provide for myself and family throughout the year, so we have to buy in. We have chickens for meat and eggs. (Growers and layers)

Luckily, most westerners can afford to have a choice of what they eat. Sadly the question you pose would have no bearing to the poor or malnourished.

You have made a lifestyle choice probably for ethical reasons? but also because you can afford to.

[farros]

See movie in my sig.. worse than any saw or hostel movie.

[wingedwolfpsion]

Why eat meat?
Because it contains important vitamins, minerals, and amino acids, which are beneficial for one's health. It also tastes good. (Essentially, the same reason one would choose to eat anything else--to fuel your body).

Dairy: Probiotic dairy foods like kefir and yogurt are extremely good for you, and it's difficult to get those benefits from any other foods. They also contain complete proteins and vitamins and minerals that are beneficial.

Eggs: Complete proteins, vitamins, and minerals, and all in a convenient package that has a long storage life. What's not to love?

All of the above contain fats, proteins, and nutrients that are healthful for humans to eat--provided the animals they came from were living on healthy food themselves, of course. (Just as veggies from depleted land are bad, animal foods from animals fed a poor diet are bad).
Our bodies are designed to make good use of them.

Why NOT eat meat, dairy, and eggs? They are all part of a complete and healthy diet for human beings. You could live off of plants, but it's far more challenging, and some individuals simply can't get all they need from plant matter alone, so why on earth would you bother?

I guess if you have some unusual health issues, or allergies, that make consuming animal products an issue for you, you could be vegan, but otherwise....why would you ever want to?
A vegan diet is an essentially unnatural diet for human beings, after all. It's always best to trust mother nature, she knows what she is doing.

Our environment designed us well...just as with all other species. We ignore that at our peril.

All other arguments invariably lead back to religion, which has often been the root of some pretty unhealthy and antisocial behavior in humans.

[macchoi]

I hope your vegan diet isn't based 100% on plant foods and soy products. It's possible to do the vegan thing and get all the macronutrients required for health, but it requires a lot of work, and you have to be very anal about your food choices. It also requires some supplementation.

I remember reading in David Icke's latest book that humans and animals once lived together in harmony. This was a time when humans did not have to eat meat. However, when TPTB took over, the biology of humans changed, as did the communication between man and animal. Humans and animals went from a state of harmony into a state of survival, which we are currently living in.

With our CURRENT biological and physiological structure, our bodies require nutrients that can only be found in animal products. I highly recommend going on a paleolithic diet; the same diet our early ancestors ate. It worked for them back when disease was minimal, and it will work for us, providing we get our food from the correct sources.

Now, there are many people who are avoiding animal products for spiritual reasons, perhaps to re-connect with our ancient state of being (mentioned above), but I don't think it's possible unless our DNA changes; DNA modification/improvement is possible through diet, but not to the extent of achieving optimal health via veganism.

I'll stick with my meat, eggs and dairy... oh, and some greens

[vegan_on_the_land]

Zarah, don't listen to the doom mongers. A vegan diet is completely healthy. I have been vegan for over 30 years. Many people have been vegan from birth.

[wingedwolfpsion]

I doubt you'll find anyone who has been vegan from birth.

Infant humans require their mother's milk for optimal health, and infants raised on vegan formulas do not generally thrive, and DO generally have health problems, if they survive at all.

As for many people living healthy lives as vegans...I have issue with the vague term 'many'. First, there aren't many vegans. Second, there are a number of people who have tried a vegan diet, and failed to thrive on it. Whether that number is higher or lower than the number who have tried it and succeeded...well, I don't know...and neither do you.
Those statistics do not exist.

All that we DO know is that some people seem to be able to eat a vegan diet and stay healthy, and other people do NOT.

We also know that, out of the folks on a vegan diet, many develop deficiencies of some kind, which require supplementation or dietary changes to correct. It is not that easy to live as a vegan.

Which agains comes around to the question...WHY be vegan?

[vegan_on_the_land]

I know people who have been vegan from birth. There may not be a high percentage of vegans but there are thousands. I don't know how many thousands.

I don't think anyone would deny that mother's milk is best for babies. Vegan soya formula is safe. In the early days, before it was fortified with iodine, it caused problems for some babies who were deficient in iodine.

You are scare mongering by hinting that some vegan babies fed formula won't survive or that they have health problems. What figures do you have for that? Don't quote the idiot parents who fed their babies with cabbage soup or some such inadequate diet.

The only supplementation needed is B12 and vitamin D in the winter. You use the word 'many' but condemned me for using it. The only vegans likely to develop deficiencies are those whose diet is deficient. A balanced vegan diet is not deficient in anything.

Many meat eaters develop deficiencies.

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by vegan_on_the_land

I know people who have been vegan from birth. There may not be a high percentage of vegans but there are thousands. I don't know how many thousands.

I don't think anyone would deny that mother's milk is best for babies. Vegan soya formula is safe. In the early days, before it was fortified with iodine, it caused problems for some babies who were deficient in iodine.

You are scare mongering by hinting that some vegan babies fed formula won't survive or that they have health problems. What figures do you have for that? Don't quote the idiot parents who fed their babies with cabbage soup or some such inadequate diet.

The only supplementation needed is B12 and vitamin D in the winter. You use the word 'many' but condemned me for using it. The only vegans likely to develop deficiencies are those whose diet is deficient. A balanced vegan diet is not deficient in anything.

Many meat eaters develop deficiencies.

And toxicities.



Any cooked animal product is way to high in fat and protein causing Lipemia (fatty blood) and Calciuria (loosing calcium via the urine).

Raw milk is alkaline, cooked milk is not, so I am looking into whether or not raw meats might be alkaline !!

Raw milk is probably the exception since we are designed to consume it at birth.

Baby humans are not designed to eat meat cooked or raw.

[thelucifer]

Originally Posted by vegan_on_the_land

Good decision!

Why do people eat those things? Mostly from habit and because they like the taste. Some believe they need them. But we don't need them, as all the healthy vegans prove.

I think its much more serious than that !

I think we have been led into eating meat etc so as to shorten our life spans and cause all kinds of havoc/chaos with animal torture diseases etc.

In the Bible pre-flood people didnt eat meat and lived for hundreds of years, after the flood people ate meat and life span dropped to 120 years max.

The "flood" is negative in more ways than one.

[indolering]

What's not to love?

I'll tell you, wingedwolfspin.

The rampant cardiovascular disease caused by animal fats.

The insane, industrialized torture and slaughter of cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, fish, and any old creature we might fancy. Horses, dogs, whales, there's no end to the wholesale desecration of sentient life.

The destruction of the ecosystem by factory farming.

Kudos to you, zarah, for following your conscience and refusing to participate in one of the real travesties of our post-modern nightmare.

[elirien]

Originally Posted by zarah

Question:

Why eat meat, dairy, eggs?

I'd really appreciate some feedback.

http://www.curetoothdecay.com/

[hadabusa]

Originally Posted by zarah

Question:

Why eat meat, dairy, eggs?

I'd really appreciate some feedback.

because it tastes excellent.

enjoy life and all that.

vegans to me are like people who eat tree roots or something.

a tasty steak is the best imagineable food there is.

[plam]

Originally Posted by zarah

Question:

Why eat meat, dairy, eggs?

I'd really appreciate some feedback.

I eat meat because ... see my avatar!
Rrrr!

First thing you'll notice after a couple of months is that you'll also lose your appetite for sex. But don't worry you don't want to produce another human being in this cruel world.

[mandrake]

Milk is unnatural to drink, only humans drink it after weaning at it's not ever our own species' milk!

Eating meat is unnatural. Because we have to change it by cooking to make it even palatable. I wonder how many people would eat raw chicken or raw pork.

Not many I'm guessing.

[plam]

Originally Posted by mandrake

Milk is unnatural to drink, only humans drink it after weaning at it's not ever our own species' milk!

Eating meat is unnatural. Because we have to change it by cooking to make it even palatable. I wonder how many people would eat raw chicken or raw pork.

Not many I'm guessing.

I eat it raw! Not pork though, I don't eat at all!
Wild boar, oh yes! Imagine the blood running down my chin! Yummy!

And why do you think eating veggies are more natural than eating meat?

Did you know that raw veggies from the cabbage family contain hyroid inhibitors and must be cooked to destroy them? You didn't did you?

Raw veggies diet is not good for men as it feminises them and no good for women as it screws up their thyroid.
So why do it?
Because Veganism is a religion and vegans are ... weak and not very bright (my personal observation)!

[macchoi]

There are so many threads already about vegan vs meat eating.

One only has to read through them to realize that some people thrive on the vegan diet, and some thrive on eating meat.

It is my opinion that if you want to be a physically strong and healthy hunter-type person, then animal product is awesome for that. There are many people on this forum who are involved in athletics, myself included - meat helps us.
If there are successful vegan athletes here, I would be interested in how they do it.

If you want to be a skinny fat person who does not need to perform physical movements at high intensity, you can get by on being a vegan.

If you're a very smart vegan, who supplements correctly, you can achieve amazing things, but I have yet to meet one who can perform at th level of their meat eating counterparts

Would you rather be a rabbit or a lion? I choose to be a lion. Yeah buddy!

[wingedwolfpsion]

Animal fats don't cause cardiovascular disease.
That lie has been perpetuated for decades, but science is finally proving it to be BS.

Most vegetable oils are actually much worse for your body than animal fats. Partially hydrogenated oils are the worst of all.

There's a reason why people who've been on Atkins for more than a couple of years are generally in marvelous health.

Modern commercial agriculture sucks. The plant farming is just as destructive, if not more so, than the animal farming, so your argument there is completely invalid.

As for sentient life, I don't really see how your argument has weight. Do you believe a lion would hesitate to eat you, merely because you are sentient? Of course not. So why in the world you should hesitate to eat it? Humans are a predatory species, and eating animals is natural to us, and it ALWAYS HAS BEEN. (The fossil records tell the story well). We also cook a lot of our food, because that is natural behavior for us as well, and always has been. (Homo sapiens has always had fire--there was never a time when we did not. This is because the species that came before us had fire. We evolved with fire).

I do not consider myself to be better than other species, nor worse than other species. I believe that living things have the inherent right to behave in accordance with their evolved nature. I have the right to be a predatory omnivore, because that is what nature has made me to be. I do not need to hold myself to any artificially created standards in order to achieve some sort of enlightenment. There is NOTHING enlightening about ignoring your nature, or deluding yourself into thinking it is something other than what it is.

You can't change things by pretending you aren't human. You are not a rabbit or a cow. You are not an herbivore.

If you want to change the mess that is modern agriculture, you won't do it by becoming a vegan. You can only do it by working from within the system to promote PROPER AGRICULTURE--to raise animals and crops humanely, without the use of chemicals or foods that they aren't evolved to consume. Your failure to have a steak dinner makes 0 difference, and there's a reason why there are so few vegans in the world. There will never be more of you than there are now. You need to accept that. Humans like meat, and many of them need animal foods to stay healthy. You will never change anything by changing what you eat, or by trying to force others to do likewise.

You want to ensure that farm animals are treated humanely? Raise some farm animals, and treat them humanely. You'll get a premium price for their meat, because omnivorous people understand the value in that.

That isn't what you want to do? Stop deluding yourself that anything less will make a difference.

[mandrake]

Originally Posted by plam

I eat it raw! Not pork though, I don't eat at all!
Wild boar, oh yes! Imagine the blood running down my chin! Yummy!

And why do you think eating veggies are more natural than eating meat?

Did you know that raw veggies from the cabbage family contain hyroid inhibitors and must be cooked to destroy them? You didn't did you?

Raw veggies diet is not good for men as it feminises them and no good for women as it screws up their thyroid.
So why do it?
Because Veganism is a religion and vegans are ... weak and not very bright (my personal observation)!

Lol. Probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!

Tell that to Mike Tyson