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Old 04-06-2014, 05:37 PM   #121
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Where did I say that?
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Paedophilia is beyond awful, in my book. But racism is utterly intolerable.
I'd say something described as "beyond awful" trumps something described as "utterly intolerable"?

Appologies If that's not the case.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:41 PM   #122
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I'd say something described as "beyond awful" trumps something described as "utterly intolerable"?

Appologies If that's not the case.
You can say that. But you'd be wrong.

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Old 04-06-2014, 05:41 PM   #123
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I'd say something described as "beyond awful" trumps something described as "utterly intolerable"?

Appologies If that's not the case.
'beyond awful' and 'utterly intolerable' seem fairly synonymous.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:43 PM   #124
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You can say that. But you'd be wrong.

Good!
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:45 PM   #125
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'beyond awful' and 'utterly intolerable' seem fairly synonymous.
I don't know i could describe my mother in law as "beyond awful" but not quite "utterly intolerable".....yet!
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:48 PM   #126
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'beyond awful' and 'utterly intolerable' seem fairly synonymous.
We need a richter scale thing for each concept. Then we can say "with regards to concept x, my mental measurement against it is 10. With regards to concept y, my mental measurement against it is 10".

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Old 04-06-2014, 06:07 PM   #127
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You think racism is worse than paedophillia?
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We need a richter scale thing for each concept. Then we can say "with regards to concept x, my mental measurement against it is 10. With regards to concept y, my mental measurement against it is 10".

If murder equals death, Is rape/peaophila a fate worst then death?.....
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:21 PM   #128
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If murder equals death, Is rape/peaophila a fate worst then death?.....
FairyP, do you mean being the victim of rape/paedophilia, or do you mean being the perpetrator of them?
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:22 PM   #129
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FairyP, do you mean being the victim of rape/paedophilia, or do you mean being the perpetrator of them?
The victims
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:31 PM   #130
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The victims
Well, it's hard to know. Every person is different. Every victim copes differently....or do they cope at all? I don't know what could have been of people's lives had they NOT been molested. Most are very damaged by the experience...

I/we see death as an unknown? The known 'life' though, is pretty harrowing to say the least.

Paedophilia victims though, I would say, can be strongly linked to their mental, emotional, physical and social status at the time of the abuse. By this I mean their age, their experience of life, the knowledge of what is happening, their emotional health. Also, their race and nationality in some cases can make them more susceptible to abuse i.e. the case of primarily white western rich nonces going to poor Asian countries where they have easier access to the children etc.

But there are two types of paedos imo. The run of the mill freakwho's a relative, friend or neighbour....and usually gets away with it. Then there's the elites with their version of sordid abuse of children.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:45 PM   #131
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Anyway, back on topic, I had a golliwog when I was a child... I never associated it with black people. I also remember the black and white minstrel show.. again, I was young and did not associate this with black people either.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:49 PM   #132
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Anyway, back on topic, I had a golliwog when I was a child... I never associated it with black people. I also remember the black and white minstrel show.. again, I was young and did not associate this with black people either.
i never saw a black person until i was eight years old, except on tv, of course.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:54 PM   #133
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i never saw a black person until i was eight years old, except on tv, of course.
I left my home town 20 years ago.. you would rarely ever see black, brown, or oriental faces... I understand my home town had one of the highest Ukip votes. And I totally understand why... it is not racist to be against high levels of immigration. Not one teeny bit.
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:55 PM   #134
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Anyway, back on topic, I had a golliwog when I was a child... I never associated it with black people. I also remember the black and white minstrel show.. again, I was young and did not associate this with black people either.
Hello mrunhappy It's hard to write your name without sounding like I'm teasing you or something!

Like many posters in this thread, we read about them in storybooks, some posters had them. Do we still do this now? No.

Would we want people who want to 'celebrate' whatever the fuck "Britishness" is using golliwogs, to represent us in politics?

Do we determinedly go around telling people that golliwogs didn't represent racism, or didn't help to entrench bitter racist ideals consciously and subconsciously? If we are made aware of the history of these ugly things, of colonialism (both past and present), of zionism (a racist political ideology that underpins much of the elites' machinations, and so on, would we still try to demand that people believe that golliwogs are innocent, have nothing to do with racism, and are not offensive to the black people they caricature?
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Old 04-06-2014, 06:57 PM   #135
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I left my home town 20 years ago.. you would rarely ever see black, brown, or oriental faces... I understand my home town had one of the highest Ukip votes. And I totally understand why... it is not racist to be against high levels of immigration. Not one teeny bit.
What does immigration (the big stupid hyped lie) have to do with gollywogs and UKIP candidates and supporters who endorse them?
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:02 PM   #136
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Hello mrunhappy It's hard to write your name without sounding like I'm teasing you or something!

Like many posters in this thread, we read about them in storybooks, some posters had them. Do we still do this now? No.

Would we want people who want to 'celebrate' whatever the fuck "Britishness" is using golliwogs, to represent us in politics?

Do we determinedly go around telling people that golliwogs didn't represent racism, or didn't help to entrench bitter racist ideals consciously and subconsciously? If we are made aware of the history of these ugly things, of colonialism (both past and present), of zionism (a racist political ideology that underpins much of the elites' machinations, and so on, would we still try to demand that people believe that golliwogs are innocent, have nothing to do with racism, and are not offensive to the black people they caricature?
But this thread has gone on for 8 pages and wasn't the celebration of golli just the campaign of two ex tories who have since defected to Ukip? It's almost irrelevant surely? Ukip is more than just two of its members? Blair is a ****, but there are surely some decent Labor members?

I must confess to not having much knowledge about the history of the golliwog, but was he actually based on a black stereotype at all? According to wikipedia he was originally a black gnome?

Edited to add.. I see... the golli was also based on a minstrel.. ok, the minstrels might have been a bit iffy. Ok very iffy.. and interestingly we still see its influence...

Damn!

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Old 04-06-2014, 07:08 PM   #137
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What does immigration (the big stupid hyped lie) have to do with gollywogs and UKIP candidates and supporters who endorse them?
What does it have to do with golliwogs? Well you seem to be suggesting that all those that turned to Ukip are racists. And I don't believe that is true. nor do I believe that uncontrolled immigration is a hyped lie. It clearly isn't.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:09 PM   #138
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Anyway, back on topic, I had a golliwog when I was a child... I never associated it with black people. I also remember the black and white minstrel show.. again, I was young and did not associate this with black people either.
I dont know anyone who associated a "gollywog" with black people until political correctness was invented.

Like I said earlier, i personally know two black families who collect "gollywog" memorabilia, are they raving racists too?

What next?....they gonna try to ban the milky bar kid incase it offends nerdy looking white kids with spectacles?
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:22 PM   #139
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But this thread has gone on for 8 pages and wasn't the celebration of golli just the campaign of two ex tories who have since defected to Ukip? It's almost irrelevant surely? Ukip is more than just two of its members? Blair is a ****, but there are surely some decent Labor members?

I must confess to not having much knowledge about the history of the golliwog, but was he actually based on a black stereotype at all? According to wikipedia he was originally a black gnome?
But, mrunhappy, I don't know if you read some of my ranty posts, but I loathe all the mainstream parties, AND of course UKIP has joined this special place as they are now being seen as the great hope for 'saving Britain'.

Apart from Farage's awful track record, he himself was a tory, his ignorance of his own manifesto, his close relationships with tax-dodging billionaires The Barclay Twins, his dinner with Rupert Murdoch, his donations from fruitcake and former tory Paul Sykes (who is/was also a staunch tory supporter), his support for fracking, his willingness to form an alliance with Italy's crackpot Five Star Party which is lead by Beppe Grillo, a man with (a/three) manslaughter conviction(s) [he caused the death of three passengers in his car]...apart from just these things to start with, UKIP's ideas are barmy. They loathe the unemployed. Are you unemployed mrunhappy? They can't fucking bear the "unemployed".

Anyway apart from all of the above, we have two twats posing with their golliwogs. It doesn't matter to me if they were Tory, Labour, LibDem or anything else. They're racist, and were sending out a clear signal to attract fellow thinkers/haters. They joined UKIP. They're still the same, with the same ideas. UKIP = racist, xenophobic, nutcase party.

See this post of mine, where I did some digging on the golliwog. It was modelled on black people. It's creator was some privileged prick named Florence K. Upton, an English woman born in the USA. She came up with it in the late 1800s. Was that a good time for blacks in the USA or UK? NO. What was the situation with blacks, their social standing and so on? Was it a time of empire for Britain? Was it a time of global white dominance over land and people?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=110

Read from where it begins - I found some great information about its origins:

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=110
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Golliwogs were originally created by a little prick born to English parents in the USA. Her name was Florence K. Upton. In her stupid storybooks, the golliwogs were described as "a horrid sight, the blackest gnome". As the book below details, golliwogs were depicted as having paws for hands and feet. Ultimately though, their image was of the black-faced minstrels who toured the USA/Europe.....
Now you see why these 'toys' have no place in current reality. None, unless people are willing to offend, and wish to offend. Racism is entrenched in multiple ways. It's not something they now still blatantly reinforce as they did back then. At the time of golliwogs being 'created' blacks were still loathed, and were only good for being slaves. Racism is much more cleverly done these days. The racism against them was rampant. And racism against blacks and other large numbers of people of different races continues. If racism is allowed to continue against colonised people or people from colonised backgrounds, then what would be the most likely outcome after so many decades of the same crap directed at the same people? Is the idea to incite and foment hatred towards whites? Is the idea to engender mass intolerance and pitch us all against each other?? There's a reason why KKK members and EDL members enjoy golliwogs. Check out this moron:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news...hilips-5391195
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man has appeared in court to face racial hatred charges after he allegedly posted footage on YouTube in which he apparently staged a mock hanging of a lifesize golliwog.

Christopher Philips, 23, of Willenhall, faced two race hate counts when he appeared before Walsall magistrates on Wednesday (July 31).

Philips is accused of using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with the intention or likelihood of stirring up racial hatred.

He is further charged with playing a recording of sounds intending to, or likely to, cause racial hatred.

The charges relate to a gig following an extreme right-wing ‘white pride’ march held in south Wales on March 9 this year, when it is also alleged Philips wore a Ku Klux Klan outfit. He allegedly posted a video on YouTube three days later.

Philips did not enter a plea to the charges and was told by magistrate Patricia Whistance his case would be sent to Wolverhampton Crown Court on October 24.

Philips, wearing a grey suit, white shirt, light blue tie and sporting short brown hair, was granted bail on the condition that he lived at his home address, observed a 9pm-7am curfew, reported to Bloxwich police station twice a week, and did not post anything on or access social media sites including YouTube, Facebook and Twitter.
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Old 04-06-2014, 08:08 PM   #140
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I dont know anyone who associated a "gollywog" with black people until political correctness was invented.

Like I said earlier, i personally know two black families who collect "gollywog" memorabilia, are they raving racists too?

What next?....they gonna try to ban the milky bar kid incase it offends nerdy looking white kids with spectacles?
Only if the white kid happens to come from a background where people like him were shackled, enslaved, whipped, raped, sold, bought, and treated like filth, yes.

I used to watch westerns, and played 'cowboys and injuns' as a kid. Then I grew up and figured it out. The MSM is not going to trumpet a message to the population to please stop watching westerns etc. It's for each person to think for themselves, and see where it will lead. Then I grew up more and read people's writings on the repetitive representation of non-white, non-western, and 'foreign' people as 'others' in the overwhelmingly dominant western media. James Bond shit films for example....typical baddies are Russians. Is it a coincidence that these films emerged during the Cold War?


http://hypervocal.com/entertainment/...lective-fears/
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So our research team took a look at more than 100 popular action films from the past 60+ years in an attempt to figure out what kind of person is suited to be a great bad guy and what that villain represents. The results are interesting: America went Superhero after 9/11, so Arab/Middle Eastern villains are few and far between; maybe Jews really do run Hollywood, as evidenced by the lack of Bar Mitzvah’d Bad Guys; and Soviets and Germans really knew how to scare the crap out of a post-World War II America heading straight into the Cold War. Our findings, along with a detailed spreadsheet, follow…
The Rise of the Russians (and Germans)

Skipping ahead to the 1950s film noir genre, which coincides with the beginning of the Cold War and McCarthy-era paranoia in America, films shifted away from the fanciful adventures of Errol Flynn or the slaptick comedy of Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin and began to tackle series themes like the failings of government and the dangers of Communism. There was an element of realism to Hollywood productions, digging down into the seedy, dark side of life....


Read more at http://hypervocal.com/entertainment/...1GG2tcCIBgM.99


Hollywood's perpetual bad guys:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15989...ereotypes.html

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People think of Hollywood as the most liberal place in the known universe, but really that only goes as far as the drugs and orgies are concerned. When it comes to minorities, Hollywood still seems to have a few shamefully corny and simplistic roles in mind. Here's the six Hollywood stereotypes that can't die soon enough:
....

In children's programmes too, stereotyping, hatred, distrust, fear and so on begin to be programmed into children's minds. Villains are almost always given foreign accents. :
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21103826344821



http://racerelations.about.com/od/ho...Television.htm
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Americans of Arab and Middle Eastern heritage have long faced stereotypes in Hollywood. In classic cinema, Arabs were often depicted as belly dancers, harem girls and oil sheiks. Old stereotypes about Arabs continue to upset the Middle Eastern community in the U.S. A Coca-Cola commercial featured during the 2013 Super Bowl featured Arabs riding on camels through the desert in hopes of beating other groups to a bottle of giant Coke. This led Arab-American advocacy groups to decry the advertisement for stereotyping Arabs as “camel jockeys.” In addition to this stereotype Arabs have been depicted as anti-American villains even before the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The 1994 film “True Lies” featured Arabs as terrorists, leading to protests of the movie by Arab groups nationwide. Movies such as Disney’s 1992 hit “Aladdin” also faced protests from Arab groups for depicting Middle Easterners as a barbaric and backwards people.

Native Americans are a diverse racial group with diverse customs and cultural experiences. In Hollywood, however, American Indians are typically characterized with a broad brush. Stereotypes of indigenous peoples abound on the small and big screen alike. When Native Americans aren’t being depicted as silent, stoic types in film and television shows, they’re depicted as bloodthirsty warriors out to spill the white man’s blood and harm white women. When Native Americans are characterized more favorably in film and television usually they’re portrayed as medicine men who guide whites through difficulties. American Indian women are frequently depicted one-dimensionally—as beautiful maidens or princesses or as squaws. These narrow Hollywood stereotypes have made Native American women vulnerable to sexual harassment and sexual assault in real life, feminist groups argue.

Blacks face both positive and negative stereotypes in Hollywood. When African Americans are portrayed as good on the silver screen, it’s usually as a “Magical Negro” type like Michael Clarke Duncan’s character in “The Green Mile.” Such characters are typically wise black men with no concerns of their own or desire to improve their status in life. Instead, these characters function to help white characters overcome adversity. The mammy stereotype and the black best friend stereotype are similar to the “Magical Negro.” Mammies traditionally took care of white families, valuing the lives of their white employers (or owners during slavery) more than their own. The number of television programs and films featuring blacks as selfless maids perpetuates this stereotype. While the black best friend isn’t a maid or nanny, she typically functions to help her white friend, normally the protagonist of the show, transcend difficult circumstances. These stereotypes are arguably as positive as it gets for black characters in Hollywood. When African Americans aren’t playing second fiddle to whites as maids, best friends and “Magical Negroes,” they’re depicted as thugs or brash women with no tact or class.

Latinos may be the largest minority group in the United States, but Hollywood has consistently portrayed Hispanics very narrowly. Viewers of American television shows and films, for example, are far more likely to see Latinos play maids and gardeners than lawyers and doctors. Furthermore, Hispanic men and women have both been sexualized in Hollywood. Latino men have long been stereotyped as “Latin Lovers,” while Latinas have been characterized as exotic, sensual vamps. Both the male and female version of the “Latin Lover” are stereotyped as having fiery temperaments. When these stereotypes aren’t at play, Hispanics are portrayed as being new immigrants with thick accents and no social standing in the U.S. or as gang-bangers and criminals.

Like Latinos and Arab Americans, Asian Americans are frequently portrayed as foreigners in Hollywood films and television shows. Though Asian Americans have lived in the U.S. for generations, there is no shortage of Asians speaking broken English and practicing “mysterious” customs on both the small and big screen. In addition, stereotypes of Asian Americans are gender specific. Asian women are often portrayed as “dragon ladies,” or as domineering women who are sexually attractive but immoral and therefore bad news for the white men who fall for them. In war films, Asian women are most often portrayed as prostitutes or other sex workers. Asian-American men meanwhile are consistently depicted as geeks, math whizzes, techies and a host of other characters viewed as non-masculine. About the only time Asian men are portrayed as physically threatening is when they’re depicted as martial artists. But Asian actors says the kung fu stereotype has hurt them also because after it rose in popularity all Asian actors were expected to follow in Bruce Lee’s footsteps.
This one is fabulous - it explains about the Blackfaces or Minstrels!
http://black-face.com/
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The stock characters of blackface minstrelsy have played a significant role in disseminating racist images, attitudes and perceptions worldwide. Every immigrant group was stereotyped on the music hall stage during the 19th Century, but the history of prejudice, hostility, and ignorance towards black people has insured a unique longevity to the stereotypes. White America's conceptions of Black entertainers were shaped by minstrelsy's mocking caricatures and for over one hundred years the belief that Blacks were racially and socially inferior was fostered by legions of both white and black performers in blackface.

Racist Black Stereotypes

Originating in the White man's characterizations of plantation slaves and free blacks during the era of minstrel shows (1830-1890), the caricatures took such a firm hold on the American imagination that audiences expected any person with dark skin, no matter what their background, to conform to one or more of the stereotypes:







...... LOTS more to see there. I just put a few pics of the stereotypes which the minstrels exhibited regarding blacks. There are explanations below each picture...

I'm sure there must be at least a few people still alive who reminisce about how innocent and playful it all was. And how they didn't think it meant anything bad at all...so why all the fuss?


Please click on the links to read them - they're quite interesting.

I found this too. Haven't seen the film linked in this. No idea what it's like:
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/3/2...tackles_racial

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Dear White People...

As colleges across the country, from Harvard to University of Mississippi, continue to witness racism on campus, we look at a new film that tackles the issue through comedy and satire. "Dear White People" follows a group of black students at a fictional, predominantly white, Ivy League school. One of the main characters, Sam, hosts the campus radio show "Dear White People," where she confronts the racist stereotypes and dilemmas faced by students of color. Racial tensions on campus come to a head when a group of mostly white students throw an African-American-themed party, wearing blackface and using watermelons and fake guns as props. We speak to actor Marque Richardson and award-winning, first-time director Justin Simien.
Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: A new film tackling racial politics in contemporary America is getting a major Hollywood break. The film, Dear White People, took the Sundance Film Festival by storm earlier this year, winning U.S. Dramatic Special Jury Award for Breakthrough Talent. Now, Lionsgate and Roadside Attractions have acquired rights to the film, pretty much guaranteeing a wide U.S. and Canadian distribution.

Dear White People examines race relations through comedy and satire. While it elicits many laughs from the audience, at its core, it’s a serious film. The film follows a group of black students at a fictional, predominantly white, Ivy League school called Winchester University. One of the main characters, Sam, hosts a radio show on campus called Dear White People, where she confronts the racist stereotypes and dilemmas faced by students of color. Racial tensions on campus come to a head when a group of mostly white students throw an African-American-themed party wearing blackface and using watermelons and fake guns as props.

The concept is not all that far-fetched. Just as the film was premiering at Sundance, a fraternity at Arizona State University decided to mark Martin Luther King Day by holding a, quote, "MLK Black Party" where white partygoers donned basketball jerseys, flashed gang signs and drank from cups made of watermelons. When posting photos of the event to social media, they used hashtags like "hood," "blackout for MLK," "my boy martin" and "kill em."

More recently, three freshmen were expelled from their fraternity at University of Mississippi, popularly known as Ole Miss, for hanging a noose and plastering a flag bearing the Confederate symbol on a statue of James Meredith, a civil rights hero who was the first African American to attend the university. The fraternity was also suspended after the incident, which took place in February during Black History Month.

Further north, at one of the world’s top universities, students of color say they’re tired of people suggesting they don’t belong. Black students at Harvard recently began a photo montage campaign called "I, Too, Am Harvard" that went viral. In it, students hold signs that say things like "Having an opinion does not make me an 'Angry Black Woman'" and "No, I will not teach you how to twerk." A Harvard student named Ahsante Bean made this promo video for the campaign.....
These actions, born of ignorance? malice? racism? stupidity? ultimately come across as institutionalised racism, and the person complaining is often tarred as a 'do-gooder', a 'liberal' or just plain wrong. When people do express their anger, they've got a "chip on their shoulders" etc. and they're shut down. The end result will just be more and more and more hate, distrust. More focus on hating each other, rather than the elites.
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