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Old 08-06-2011, 06:05 AM   #41
stickwhistler
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Originally Posted by cue_ball View Post
....

I currently own a good quality air rifle in .22 (a German Weihrauch) and it's a superb hunting tool for anything up to rabbit size. Being a spring rifle it's as simple and reliable as they come. Yes, PCPs and pumps are slightly more accurate, but they're more trouble to prime and not so reliable. If the SHTF there's nowhere to fill a divers bottle. I wouldn't recommend any of the cheap Chinese spring airguns. Cheap will not last in hard times. Same goes for the scope. In fact, have iron sights at the ready in case the scope breaks.
I have a 30 old spring Webley Vulcan. It started life at 11.5 ft/lbs,
and us now 10.6 ft/lbs, with the same spring. So reliable it most certainly is.

I also have an air arms 410. 11.97 ft/lbs, 10 mag, bolt action .22.
I use a high pressure manual pump to recharge it.
The pump cost about £140, so no divers bottles for me.
As to defence, no good compared to FAC guns, but eyes are extremely vulnerable,
and I don't know anyone who would not immediately avoid paying attention to one or both eyes being shot!
Stabby, stabby after!

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Originally Posted by cue_ball View Post
I've just bought an Armex Jaguar crossbow. I know you can get more expensive crossbows, but those are for hunting deer and black bear in the USA where extreme accuracy is important. I won't be hunting anything with mine and it is a pure self-defence weapon up to hallway distance. It's the next best thing to a firearm I reckon. It's a recurve crossbow so there's no fiddly cams and re-stringing issues like compounds.

Like you say, they're slow to reload, but they're a good visual deterrent and after firing the first shot you can go straight for the machete you have stringed to your arm and carry on fighting. Broadhead crossbow tips are STILL legal to buy in the UK and they pack a serious punch.
Broadhead arrows and crossbow bolts really mess up targets.
I use a layered foam target - looks like thin camping sleeping mats
layered, and squeezed in a wooden frame. I use this because I can
leave it outside, and shoot any time I like, without setting up and taking down targets.
Ordinary tipped arrows/bolts damage the mats, but they last years.
The broadheads leave a three line hole that you
can push your fingers through i.e. a hole about 1 inch (25mm) wide,
that ruins the mats - so be warned about the damage.
I find that the crossbow (135 lbs) will shoot about 1 inch lower over 20 metres
with a broadhead, compared to usual target or field tipped bolts.
With the screw in broadhead tips, try to line up the blades with the flights - they do affect accuracy.

Also if you use foam targets, try using a 17 inch bolt instead of the standard 14 inch.
The bolts will stick right through the 14 in thick standard target,
so you can see where they are easily, and push them back, or right through.
The 14 inch bolts get completely buried, and take a bit of finding.
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Old 16-06-2011, 12:18 AM   #42
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Stickwhistler, thanks for posting. And thanks for the info on the crossbow target. I've been looking for a way of making a good one - my Argos catalogue is looking a bit knackered now lol.

I owned a Webley Vulcan back in 1993. Excellent no-frills gun. Shot lots with it. You can't go wrong with a springer but I see your point about the PCP rifle with the pump.

Take it easy and I'll see you in the post-apocalyptic wasteland ... probably
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Old 22-06-2011, 11:33 AM   #43
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Honestly like you say what happens when/if you run out of bullets or if you gun is damagaged.
I think the best plan is to have a gun but to have a back up plan of prehistoric weapons like a bow and arrow, know how to make one incase it breaks and know how to use it...well.
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Old 27-06-2011, 03:37 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
Air rifles are great for hunting small game (rabbit, pheasant, pigeon, duck - pheasant and duck are illegal with air guns though and need a headshot to kill) but bugger all use for self defence (except as a club). The advice on calibre is generally correct to; .22 has more punch and is less affected by crosswind.

Rifles are hard to get, you need to be a member of a gun club or own several acres of land....and even then the plod will be warey of you. Pistols are unreachable by any legal means except one....blackpowder pistols remain legal, which means a six shoot is available to you if you join a gun club for BP enthusiasts.

Shotguns are open to everyone who doesnt have a history of crime, violence or serious mental illness. Just join a clay club, get a gun safe and 6 months later get your certificate and a couple of guns.

Crossbows are the middleman of the deal; more powerful than air rifles, these really are good for both hunting AND defence, but are cumbersome and slow to reload.

My suggestion would be to join a clay pigeon club, get 6 months of once or twice a month shooting under your belt and get a shotgun. Failing that, a .22 springer air rifle at 12 ft/lbs (max legal power without needing a licence) is great for hunting but ZERO use for defence - get a crossbow for defence (but hunting is illegal with them).
You don't need to wait 6 months to get an SGC.
I got mine in less than a month from applying, mind you being ex-forces I think they give you a bit of slack but that's just me.

You are allowed up to Buckshot 00 on a SGC.
If you want combat shotguns and slug shells then you need to have it on an FAC ticket. Technically you can have one if a member of the UKPSA (practical shooting organisation) but some areas of the UK like you to be in a club anyway.

You can hunt hogs with a crossbow.
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Old 29-06-2011, 09:54 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by cue_ball View Post
Excellent advice.

I'm unable to own either a firearm or shotgun for reasons I won't go into. I won't be hunting anything with mine and it is a pure self-defence weapon up to hallway distance. It's the next best thing to a firearm I reckon. It's a recurve crossbow so there's no fiddly cams and re-stringing issues like compounds.



Like you say, they're slow to reload, but they're a good visual deterrent and after firing the first shot you can go straight for the machete you have stringed to your arm and carry on fighting. Broadhead crossbow tips are STILL legal to buy in the UK and they pack a serious punch.
)
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Old 29-06-2011, 11:09 PM   #46
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You don't need to wait 6 months to get an SGC.
I got mine in less than a month from applying, mind you being ex-forces I think they give you a bit of slack but that's just me.

You are allowed up to Buckshot 00 on a SGC.
If you want combat shotguns and slug shells then you need to have it on an FAC ticket. Technically you can have one if a member of the UKPSA (practical shooting organisation) but some areas of the UK like you to be in a club anyway.

You can hunt hogs with a crossbow.
if you're using it at close range as a defensive weapon ammo doesn't really matter as a shotgun is pretty devastating and will shread most things.

a gun like a berreta 303 is probably best for this 3 shot and auto, closest thing to a multi purpouse shotgun in the uk as it will handle big loads easily and also is a good hunting tool. don't expect them to welcome you on your local pheasent shoot with one though as the barrell doesn't break.

it's all well and good talking about gun's tbh , but at the end of the day you have to have the bottle to use it. i am not sure if i could shoot someone, unless it was an end of days scenario. animals for food are one thing, no probs there, another person? i don't know if i could do that and hope i don't ever have to find out
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Old 29-06-2011, 11:16 PM   #47
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Can someone give me an idea about what guns are available in the UK?
Aye, Tesco's are doing Buy One Get One Free offers at the moment on Heckler & Koch MP5-A4s, SIG-Sauer P220 - .45 ACPs and Desert Eagle Mark VII - .44 Magnums.
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Old 29-06-2011, 11:35 PM   #48
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Aye, Tesco's are doing Buy One Get One Free offers at the moment on Heckler & Koch MP5-A4s, SIG-Sauer P220 - .45 ACPs and Desert Eagle Mark VII - .44 Magnums.
They tend to leak if you point them downwards though....
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:39 PM   #49
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if a gang of marauders attack you home in a apocalyptic uk your going look a bit stupid dodging bullets from stolen weapons returning fire with a slingshot or asking for your crossbow bolts back so you can continue fighting , might be an idea to place a pile of big stones beneath every window for just such situations

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Old 02-09-2011, 09:14 PM   #50
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:01 AM   #51
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if a gang of marauders attack you home in a apocalyptic uk your going look a bit stupid dodging bullets from stolen weapons returning fire with a slingshot or asking for your crossbow bolts back so you can continue fighting , might be an idea to place a pile of big stones beneath every window for just such situations
Multiple xbows and a shit load of bolts might be handy to

Someone to help reload would be an added plus, a mild bonnie and clyde.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:06 AM   #52
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What people should be thinking about in that video is .......fuck........wish i was in a gang

Tbh I think if we have a collapse the gangs will do very well.They have weapons, organisation, and above all , as they all ready live outside the law, they dont give a fuck about anything !!! They have no moral constraints remember that .

So to survive, any worry you have about breaking laws that are in your head only, well get rid of them.

Surviving in a collapsed society will mean ....you have to do anything to survive....and for any body doubting they cant/wont kill another person......you will...its ingrained in the survival mode in your brain.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:55 PM   #53
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when society breaks down i dont plan in hanging around town, im a getting hell outa dodge, got a comfortable hide built in a secret location, got bug out bags for the family enough to last 3 months wich gives me time to get organized for a regular source of food, youd be surprised at how little calories you actually need per day, i think the citys/towns will become a deathzone, looterwill get themselves into mobs, & without automatic weapons its suicide, let them kill themselves i dont want to be around to see it.
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:38 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by hunter77 View Post
it's all well and good talking about gun's tbh , but at the end of the day you have to have the bottle to use it. i am not sure if i could shoot someone, unless it was an end of days scenario. animals for food are one thing, no probs there, another person? i don't know if i could do that and hope i don't ever have to find out
I always found it interesting that it’s often the same the other way around, I’ve known people who wouldn’t kill an animal unless it was between that and starvation yet would have few qualms about shooting someone for looking at them funny.
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