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Old 29-04-2016, 07:08 PM   #601
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I think you could make legitimate arguments that the structure of the vatican invites systemic failures and the advancement of the worst side of human nature. Like freemasonry it is a compartmentalised, pyramidal hierarchy which then gets populated with bad people and enables them to carry out their crimes under its protection
Any organisation can be populated by bad people looking to hide amongst good people.

Every organisation has a form of pyramid, even this forum in how it is run. It is also compartmentalised, with people higher up having greater access and power to run the site. Structures are not bad, just the people who abuse control.

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as above i am not just levelling criticism at the people in it i am levelling criticism into how it is structured, how it performs and what function it performs in society

I always provide plenty of evidence to support my arguments...its a shame you don't do the same
I disagree with you. You often make claims that you cant back up or that can easily be proven wrong, such as claiming there is no female aspect to masonic ritual. I have shown you there are numerous examples.

The fact is you only ever consider the subject from the view of the bad minority whole ignoring anything else. Totally biased. You reinforce your negative conditioning by only viewing material that fits with your preformed conclusions.

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the secretive nature of the order and the way it binds people together with oaths and draws in powerful people seeking self advancement invites a corrosive effect on society
The obligation talk about helping others. Masons are actually told not to seek self advancement. If they do then they are not living up to the obligation. I guess it would be like a Christian who doesn't follow the ten commandments, not really a Christian.

I would have thought money would be a far more powerful bonding agent that ceremonials that adjure good behaviour.

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it doesn't matter if greed bound them together freemasonry provided them with the vehicle by which to exert their power unfairly on society
Or maybe its just perceived that way. The fact is that even if they did use freemasonry for such an end its not true to the basic principles, hence they are not true freemasons, just charlatans.


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no what i have claimed is an imbalance so i have not been proven wrong
Yes you have. You just try to wriggle out of it.

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i haven't said that there is no curves in the entirety of freemasonry!
You tried to use the female psychologists opinions about no curves to support your argument and you were wrong.

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or you could see the square and compass as the symbol of saturn:

Not so. The angles are all wrong as well as the proportions. Also, that sigil has a horizontal line. The trouble is that you try to simplify things to push an idea that isn't there. The whole conspiracy field is full of examples where people blur the edges of things to make things appear similar while totally ignoring the details that would prove they are not the same.

Another point proving that your claim is wrong is that the hexagon is a solar symbol, not the symbol of Saturn. I guess this is where you try and tell me its all about the spooky black sun

For your information the orientation of the sigil differe, so that's another factor. It should be as in this pic:




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because it is used to subvert democracy and not as the original intent behind male mystery schools which was to assist young men into maturity and into a responsible membership of the tribe
Funny that. I think you might be trying to describe rites of passage, which are only a small part of the mysteries.

Evil people subvert things and they don't need masonic membership for that.

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so you are denying that nostradamus was a student of kabbalah?
I like to keep an open mind but my point is that the things he did didn't require Kabbalistic knowledge.

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then watch it but you'd be wrong if you assumed he was my only source of insight into that world
I never said you have any insight into that world. It would appear that you don't really.

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i do not 'admit' he wasn't one. As far as i'm concerned he ABSOLUTELY was a member of the secret society network. he was knighted by not only the queen but the pope as well

The vatican is a male only, solar order and the freemasons are a male only, solar order
So you don't believe that men contain both masculine and feminine aspects in their being? In relation to God we are all female, the spirit being the positive principle to everything else and all of use being passive or receptive to that. Don't forget that there are also female masonic lodge too.

You speak as if maleness is some crime or evil and as if females are the only good. Didn't you realise that the pillar of severity is the female pillar and the male pillar is that of mercy? something else you seem to have forgot.

You did indirectly admit Saville wasn't a mason.

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if you join any group and make oaths of subservience to them without knowing what the aims of that group are at the top then you are a fool ripe to be duped
Cant see why taking an obligation to be strive to live an upright and honest life is a bad thing. Maybe you should take an obligation to not lie about people? what you do essentially is to bear false witness against an entire organisation based on the behaviour of a minority.

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Old 29-04-2016, 09:17 PM   #602
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Getting back to the plot

During this occult period there were three other symbolic events to add to the list.

1. Another MK Ultra hit of the WWE female star who had an overdose.

2. Lighting of the Olympic torch when a single white dove was released. Reference: when doves fly.

3. Obama came over and met up with lizardbreath to celebrate Beltane

Thanks to The Black Child on youtube! !!
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Old 29-04-2016, 09:20 PM   #603
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So there were very obvious and symbolic occult events and a couple of illuminate "hits".

The shills were covering as usual.
A shilling for the Queen.
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Old 29-04-2016, 09:36 PM   #604
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Here's the vid from The Black Child.
Check out his other stuff about the elites media slaves and sacrifices/hits.

https://youtu.be/JMND2i2du3k
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Old 29-04-2016, 09:44 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by busa View Post
Getting back to the plot

During this occult period there were three other symbolic events to add to the list.

1. Another MK Ultra hit of the WWE female star who had an overdose.

2. Lighting of the Olympic torch when a single white dove was released. Reference: when doves fly.

3. Obama came over and met up with lizardbreath to celebrate Beltane

Thanks to The Black Child on youtube! !!
busa,

It is Passover Week. Beltane is the day after Passover ends on May 1, 2016.

Last edited by aster; 30-04-2016 at 06:49 AM. Reason: 'baiting' comment removed
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Old 29-04-2016, 09:51 PM   #606
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busa,

It is Passover Week. Beltane is the day after Passover ends on May 1, 2016.

Try to get a grip.
the evidence of the occult activity that coincided with the erection of the Baal gateway is there under your nose. Proven
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Last edited by aster; 30-04-2016 at 06:50 AM. Reason: re. previous post
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Old 03-05-2016, 10:15 AM   #607
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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
Any organisation can be populated by bad people looking to hide amongst good people.
some organisations are set up in a particular structure with a particular function in mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by markritter View Post
Every organisation has a form of pyramid, even this forum in how it is run. It is also compartmentalised, with people higher up having greater access and power to run the site. Structures are not bad, just the people who abuse control.
the pyramidal hierarchy model is archontic and leaves the door open to abuses of power

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
I disagree with you. You often make claims that you cant back up or that can easily be proven wrong, such as claiming there is no female aspect to masonic ritual. I have shown you there are numerous examples.
you have not proven me wrong; i have proven you wrong

women are not in freemasonry because it is a male order

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
The fact is you only ever consider the subject from the view of the bad minority whole ignoring anything else. Totally biased. You reinforce your negative conditioning by only viewing material that fits with your preformed conclusions.
no if you look at all the evidence posted here about freemasonry you'll see that it has a corrosive effect on democratic society

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
The obligation talk about helping others. Masons are actually told not to seek self advancement. If they do then they are not living up to the obligation. I guess it would be like a Christian who doesn't follow the ten commandments, not really a Christian.

I would have thought money would be a far more powerful bonding agent that ceremonials that adjure good behaviour.

Or maybe its just perceived that way. The fact is that even if they did use freemasonry for such an end its not true to the basic principles, hence they are not true freemasons, just charlatans.

Yes you have. You just try to wriggle out of it.

You tried to use the female psychologists opinions about no curves to support your argument and you were wrong.
this is all just waffle with no substance^

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
Not so. The angles are all wrong as well as the proportions. Also, that sigil has a horizontal line. The trouble is that you try to simplify things to push an idea that isn't there. The whole conspiracy field is full of examples where people blur the edges of things to make things appear similar while totally ignoring the details that would prove they are not the same.

Another point proving that your claim is wrong is that the hexagon is a solar symbol, not the symbol of Saturn. I guess this is where you try and tell me its all about the spooky black sun

For your information the orientation of the sigil differe, so that's another factor. It should be as in this pic:


saturn has a hexagon on its south pole

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
Funny that. I think you might be trying to describe rites of passage, which are only a small part of the mysteries.

Evil people subvert things and they don't need masonic membership for that.
freemasonry acts as the perfect vehicle for those bent on subversion

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
I like to keep an open mind but my point is that the things he did didn't require Kabbalistic knowledge.
prove it

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
I never said you have any insight into that world. It would appear that you don't really.
wrong again, i do have insight

you don't seem able to share any information mark. Is it because you don't have any? all you do is squabble and deny

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So you don't believe that men contain both masculine and feminine aspects in their being?
are you aware on a conscious level of how you like to try and put words in peoples mouths? You remind me of sean hannity in the clip below:



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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
In relation to God we are all female, the spirit being the positive principle to everything else and all of use being passive or receptive to that. Don't forget that there are also female masonic lodge too.

You speak as if maleness is some crime or evil and as if females are the only good. Didn't you realise that the pillar of severity is the female pillar and the male pillar is that of mercy? something else you seem to have forgot.
lol once again you are trying to put words in my mouth

it's weird it's like you are having a conversation with someone else in your own head

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
You did indirectly admit Saville wasn't a mason.
no i didn't, once again you are listening to the imaginary voice in your head which is missleading you

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
Cant see why taking an obligation to be strive to live an upright and honest life is a bad thing. Maybe you should take an obligation to not lie about people? what you do essentially is to bear false witness against an entire organisation based on the behaviour of a minority.
maybe you should listen to all the testimony about corruption in freemasonry and then realise what role it actually plays in our society; but that requires being honest

see clip above about seans anti-social behaviour to learn how discourse is disrupted by jibes and missrepresentation....your posts are a great example of this in action...thanks for providing us with such a good example mark!
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Old 03-05-2016, 01:19 PM   #608
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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
some organisations are set up in a particular structure with a particular function in mind
Pretty obvious to anybody

Quote:
the pyramidal hierarchy model is archontic and leaves the door open to abuses of power
Any organisation can abuse power.

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women are not in freemasonry because it is a male order
Order of the eastern star perhaps?

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no if you look at all the evidence posted here about freemasonry you'll see that it has a corrosive effect on democratic society
Only in the minds of haters. Don't you believe that its all controlled opposition? if so then how can they undermine what isn't there?

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saturn has a hexagon on its south pole
lol, waffle with no substance. At the end of the day you are wrong trying to tie those things together. That sigil is formed by the numbers on a magic square. This example only differs in that its drawn with one line:



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freemasonry acts as the perfect vehicle for those bent on subversion
No it doesn't. I guess haters will believe anything though.

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prove it
Burden of proof lies with those who make claims. You said he studied kabbalah and that he needed it for his visions. You prove that. I can sell you a flux capacitor for your car if you like.

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wrong again, i do have insight
Then use it for subjects where you have it'

Quote:
you don't seem able to share any information mark. Is it because you don't have any? all you do is squabble and deny
I question, which is a good thing to do, no? I could share so much more but why bother? you have already made up your mind what you want to believe and skew and pervert all information towards that end.

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lol once again you are trying to put words in my mouth
Maybe its the way you come across.

Quote:

maybe you should listen to all the testimony about corruption in freemasonry and then realise what role it actually plays in our society; but that requires being honest
I accept that there may be corrupt freemasons. Its the nature of this world. The principles of the organisation are not responsible for their acts.

Quote:
see clip above about seans anti-social behaviour to learn how discourse is disrupted by jibes and missrepresentation....your posts are a great example of this in action...thanks for providing us with such a good example mark!
You are such a hypocrite. Stop playing the victim just because you are on the back foot.
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:18 PM   #609
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Pretty obvious to anybody

Any organisation can abuse power.
but its the model on which it is based that enables it to be used to corrode democracy

It is a secretive, compartmentalised, pyramidal hierarchy, that makes its members swear terrible oaths that disincentivise them from following their conscience by pressuring them to support their fellow members rather than act on their conscience

That is not a normal arrangement mark

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Order of the eastern star perhaps?
that isn't freemasonic; it was started by a freemason but was given its own degrees

It is not acknowledged by any grand lodge

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
Only in the minds of haters. Don't you believe that its all controlled opposition? if so then how can they undermine what isn't there?

lol, waffle with no substance. At the end of the day you are wrong trying to tie those things together. That sigil is formed by the numbers on a magic square. This example only differs in that its drawn with one line:
Nevertheless it is there in the freemasonic symbol

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
No it doesn't. I guess haters will believe anything though.

Burden of proof lies with those who make claims. You said he studied kabbalah and that he needed it for his visions. You prove that. I can sell you a flux capacitor for your car if you like.
yes i believe that he was a kabbalist who was fitting his mind to contact discarnate entities through his use of kabbalah

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Originally Posted by markritter View Post
Then use it for subjects where you have it'

I question, which is a good thing to do, no? I could share so much more but why bother? you have already made up your mind what you want to believe and skew and pervert all information towards that end.

Maybe its the way you come across.

I accept that there may be corrupt freemasons. Its the nature of this world. The principles of the organisation are not responsible for their acts.
the very structure and nature of it makes it a covert and corrosive influence on society

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You are such a hypocrite. Stop playing the victim just because you are on the back foot.
i'm not on the back foot

I'm only getting warmed up....lots more to follow
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:48 PM   #610
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Nevertheless it is there in the freemasonic symbol
Its just not

Another difference for you to ponder is both arrows on the sigil are identical in shape. The square and compasses are of different sizes. I know that you will not listen but I cant help you if you chose ignorance.
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:09 PM   #611
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The black cube is the great protection of the Fraternity; it permits the brother who does not desire to make public his secret knowledge, to use that knowledge for the benefit of the Craft. It gives to all members the right to say who shall not become mem­bers of their lodge family. But at the same time it puts to the test the Masonic heart, and the personal honesty of every brother who deliberates on its use.

The black cube is a thorough test of our understanding of the Masonic teaching of the cardinal virtue, justice, which "enables us to render to every man his just due without distinction." We are taught of justice that "it should be the invariable practice of every Mason, never to deviate from the minutest principle thereof." Justice to the lodge requires us to cast the black cube on an applicant we believe to be unfit. Justice to ourselves requires that we cast the black cube on the application of the man we believe would destroy the reputation of our lodge. by Tim S. Anderson DGS/LSC Excerpted and adapted from The MSA Short Talk Bulletin Nov. 1929

"Since the all-seeing eye represents the Egyptian Osirus,let's look at who Osiris is. He committed incest with his sister, Isis, which resulted in the birth of Horus the Egyptian god of the dead as well as a Sun God .. Osiris is known by many other names in other countries ... In Thrace and Greece, he is known as Dionysus, the god of pleasures and of partying and wine ... Festivals held in Dionysus' honor often resulted in human sacrifices and orgiastic sexual rites. The Phrygians know Osiris as Sabasius where he is honored as the solar deity (a sun god) who was represented by horns and his emblem was a serpent. In other places, he is known by other names: Deouis, The Boy Jupiter, The Centaur, Orion, Saturn, The Boy Plutus, Iswara, The Winged One, Nimrod, Adoni, Hermes, Prometheus, Poseidon, Butes, Dardanus, Himeros, Imbors, Iasius, Zeus, Iacchus, Hu, Thor, Serapis, Ormuzd, Apollo, Thammuz, Atus, Hercules, Shiva, Moloch, and believe it or not, BAAL!" Burns, "Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated", p. 359;
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:12 PM   #612
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“Pan was a composite creature, the upper part–with the exception of his horns–being human, and the lower part in the form of a goat.…The pipes of Pan signify the natural harmony of the spheres, and the god himself is a symbol of Saturn because this planet is enthroned in Capricorn, whose emblem is a goat” -Manly P. Hall, Secret Teachings of All Ages

“Saturn is the opposite to Jupiter; his symbol is the cross above the sign of Luna. He is the Satan, the Tempter, or rather the Tester. His function is to chastise and tame the unruly passions in the primitive man.” -J.S. Ward, Freemasonry and the Ancient Gods
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:26 PM   #613
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nostradamus kabbalist and astral projection

'A few precautions, however, should be observed prior to projecting the Body of Light. To leave the physical body by itself without the guiding intelligence and control of the inner Self is tantamount in most cases to extending an open invitation to whatever astral entity, malignant or otherwise, is in the vicinity to take possession'- Regardie
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:31 PM   #614
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The black cube is the great protection of the Fraternity; it permits the brother who does not desire to make public his secret knowledge, to use that knowledge for the benefit of the Craft. It gives to all members the right to say who shall not become mem­bers of their lodge family. But at the same time it puts to the test the Masonic heart, and the personal honesty of every brother who deliberates on its use.

The black cube is a thorough test of our understanding of the Masonic teaching of the cardinal virtue, justice, which "enables us to render to every man his just due without distinction." We are taught of justice that "it should be the invariable practice of every Mason, never to deviate from the minutest principle thereof." Justice to the lodge requires us to cast the black cube on an applicant we believe to be unfit. Justice to ourselves requires that we cast the black cube on the application of the man we believe would destroy the reputation of our lodge. by Tim S. Anderson DGS/LSC Excerpted and adapted from The MSA Short Talk Bulletin Nov. 1929

"Since the all-seeing eye represents the Egyptian Osirus,let's look at who Osiris is. He committed incest with his sister, Isis, which resulted in the birth of Horus the Egyptian god of the dead as well as a Sun God .. Osiris is known by many other names in other countries ... In Thrace and Greece, he is known as Dionysus, the god of pleasures and of partying and wine ... Festivals held in Dionysus' honor often resulted in human sacrifices and orgiastic sexual rites. The Phrygians know Osiris as Sabasius where he is honored as the solar deity (a sun god) who was represented by horns and his emblem was a serpent. In other places, he is known by other names: Deouis, The Boy Jupiter, The Centaur, Orion, Saturn, The Boy Plutus, Iswara, The Winged One, Nimrod, Adoni, Hermes, Prometheus, Poseidon, Butes, Dardanus, Himeros, Imbors, Iasius, Zeus, Iacchus, Hu, Thor, Serapis, Ormuzd, Apollo, Thammuz, Atus, Hercules, Shiva, Moloch, and believe it or not, BAAL!" Burns, "Masonic and Occult Symbols Illustrated", p. 359;
freemasonic square and compass as the six pointed star:



six pointed star and metatrons cube:

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Old 04-05-2016, 10:14 PM   #615
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freemasonic square and compass as the six pointed star:

With the Masonic logo, the square is at 90° angle and the compasses is usually around 60°, it's easily seen as different from the hexagram where all angles are at 60°.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:17 AM   #616
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31 pages on this thread which I havn't read, so I'm not sure if it's already been covered that New York is also getting one.....

http://
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:01 PM   #617
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31 pages on this thread which I havn't read, so I'm not sure if it's already been covered that New York is also getting one.....

http://
oz93666,

You might find this thread worth reading. The arch got changed to the Palmyra Arch of Triumph. You hard liners insist that there is no difference.

The replica is 2/3 of full sized. It is Egyptian marble and not limestone. No Babylonian consecration was performed in public.

No blood was spilled at Trafalgar square on St. Georges Day or May Day.

The replica is en route to NYC. The one replica is on tour. The tour is supposed to be a protest against the deeds of ISIS.

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Old 05-05-2016, 06:07 PM   #618
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oz93666,

You might find this thread worth reading. The arch got changed to the Palmyra Arch of Triumph. You hard liners insist that there is no difference.

The replica is 2/3 of full sized. It is Egyptian marble and not limestone. No Babylonian consecration was performed in public.

No blood was spilled at Trafalgar square on St. Georges Day or May Day.

The replica is en route to NYC. The one replica is on tour. The tour is supposed to be a protest against the deeds of ISIS.
Thanks for your reply , M. I really can't bring myself to go through all those pages .... My thought (which may be wrong), is that this is about acclimatizing the people to such things , give it another few years and who knows what they'll be doing .

Who was behind such a crazy idea, and who is paying for it . The ISIS angle is surely BS to give it some degree of public support.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:04 PM   #619
monay
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Originally Posted by oz93666 View Post
Thanks for your reply , M. I really can't bring myself to go through all those pages .... My thought (which may be wrong), is that this is about acclimatizing the people to such things , give it another few years and who knows what they'll be doing .

Who was behind such a crazy idea, and who is paying for it . The ISIS angle is surely BS to give it some degree of public support.
oz93666,

The organization is called the Institute for Digital Archeology. IDA has been around for awhile.

The funding for this project is Saudi (Museum of the Future in Dubai). in company with Harvard U and Oxford U.

NYC is not showing this until September. I think that the rocks are in Dubai now.

Last edited by monay; 05-05-2016 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:41 PM   #620
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SO the people that fund ISIS are funding this.You cant make this shit up thats for sure.
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