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Old 21-03-2007, 01:15 PM   #1
teslafire
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Default Satan's Rebellion as self-sacrifice for God's Love

According to Sufi Tradition, God asks all the angels in heaven to bow before Adam, the new creation. Satan refuses to bow, believing obedience to humans to be idolatry against God, and is swiftly cast out of heaven for his disobedience.

This is an example of self-sacrifing love, agape, martyr. But instead of sacrificing material for spiritual fulfillment, he sacrifices spirit for spirit...

What does this mean exactly?

Hell is an expression of Love's devotion?
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Last edited by teslafire; 21-03-2007 at 04:52 PM. Reason: readability
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Old 26-03-2007, 04:10 AM   #2
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Ooh, that's a compelling thought. I have never given sufism a look. It is interesting to note that goths and vampire kids are some of the most doggedly devoted people on the planet.

s
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Old 26-03-2007, 08:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by teslafire View Post
According to Sufi Tradition, God asks all the angels in heaven to bow before Adam, the new creation. Satan refuses to bow, believing obedience to humans to be idolatry against God, and is swiftly cast out of heaven for his disobedience.

This is an example of self-sacrifing love, agape, martyr. But instead of sacrificing material for spiritual fulfillment, he sacrifices spirit for spirit...

What does this mean exactly?

Hell is an expression of Love's devotion?
i have studied sufism quite intensely over the years. it is simply beautiful, and a true expression of persian pre-islamic spirituality that found a way to survive under the guise of islam. but i digress. i think that what this means is that hell is simply separation from god. it does put a nasty twist on god though, who first says to only worship god, and then goes and banishes satan for listening to this commandment. it has been said that satan is the greatest sufi for his devotion to god and his inability to bow down to anyone else. i highly recommend the book, conference of the birds, which sums up the basic sufi doctrine that we need to do away w the ego and all of our bullshit to reach union w god, but in this union we realize that we are god. many of the great sufi martyrs died for saying that they are god. Hallaj is one such example.
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Old 26-03-2007, 11:07 AM   #4
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i like that analogy, it actually makes sense to me in a way, but don't ask me to put it into words, not yet, still a vague thing floating around my head.
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Old 26-03-2007, 10:32 PM   #5
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you really do have to clarify what you mean by god, is this the same diety who ordered the stoning to death of a stick gatherer on the sabbath'is this the same god who told joshua to sllay the midinates and raise their cities killing everyone all the livestock every blade of grass but save all the virgins so they can become concubines the defination of this god charictor needs to be drastically redefined or not used at all'better to use another analogy alltogether
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Old 27-03-2007, 12:34 AM   #6
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well hallaj believed that satan's definition of god was too focused and that satan over emphasized the uniqueness of god and should have realized that god is all so it is not a sin to bow down before man. so i dont think we ever had a clear definition of god, nor will we ever
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Old 27-03-2007, 05:21 AM   #7
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I personally feel that the cosmology of mankind being the greatest of all creatures is fatally flawed. It leads to hubris and ends-justified means.

s
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Old 08-04-2007, 12:05 PM   #8
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personally feel that the cosmology of mankind being the greatest of all creatures is fatally flawed. It leads to hubris and ends-justified means.
Perhaps man was the greatest of all Gods creations before the FALL however since the fall the Bible is clear both in OT and NT all have sinned therefore fall short of the Glory of God! Simple really.
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Old 08-04-2007, 03:31 PM   #9
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Simple, like in simpleton? Mankind was never the highest creation. Otherwise he would not have been able to receive an expansion of consciousness from Satan. That is, if the bible were true, which it patently is not. It is a plagiarized, fabricated mish-mosh of every pre-existing religion's texts, poisoned with the Judah-ist ideal of them as master race.

s

All have sinned, indeed! "God" sinned, if he placed man in that lose-lose situation. Which he didn't but since we're talking Booble here...
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:05 AM   #10
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Simple, like in simpleton? Mankind was never the highest creation. Otherwise he would not have been able to receive an expansion of consciousness from Satan.
Perhaps the wisdom Man had before the fall was superior to the so called expansion of consciousness that satan gave man after it, which after all led to his fall from grace!. Keeping in mind that wisdom in religion means something completely different to intelligence in the logical sense of the word as used in science.

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That is, if the bible were true, which it patently is not. It is a plagiarized, fabricated mish-mosh of every pre-existing religion's texts, poisoned with the Judah-ist ideal of them as master race.
Looks and sounds like something the Illuminati believe which is why they wont accept any christian God.
Truth is from my point of view as a christian you are either with God or against him and you and others here are clearly against him which means you can only be with satan!.So i guess that perhaps the reason you are here is to caress your own ego by proving you think you know more than Simpletons like me right!.

The type that must always have the last word yeah i know!.Funny thing is your the type that probly worships a mere mortal like David Icke and hangs on his every word just like any minister or priest. So as we are talking about worship or idols, you certainly seem to have a God or a few Gods of your own Mr Logical!.

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Old 09-04-2007, 02:19 PM   #11
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Stick around, Joffausy... You might just see something you never saw before. I suggest you read some of my early posts here. I was once like you.

s
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Old 15-04-2007, 03:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teslafire View Post
According to Sufi Tradition, God asks all the angels in heaven to bow before Adam, the new creation. Satan refuses to bow, believing obedience to humans to be idolatry against God, and is swiftly cast out of heaven for his disobedience.

This is an example of self-sacrifing love, agape, martyr. But instead of sacrificing material for spiritual fulfillment, he sacrifices spirit for spirit...

What does this mean exactly?

Hell is an expression of Love's devotion?

If you base love on attention and devotion, hate is some of the most devoted love in the world. Who have you seen more devoted to someone else than he who hates someone? Hate and love get weird. This post made me think of this. I'd pondered alot of stuff like this the year I was separated from my fiance, examining the concepts of love and devotion to my core.
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Old 15-04-2007, 04:32 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by anoninnyc View Post
i have studied sufism quite intensely over the years. it is simply beautiful, and a true expression of persian pre-islamic spirituality that found a way to survive under the guise of islam. but i digress. i think that what this means is that hell is simply separation from god. it does put a nasty twist on god though, who first says to only worship god, and then goes and banishes satan for listening to this commandment. it has been said that satan is the greatest sufi for his devotion to god and his inability to bow down to anyone else. i highly recommend the book, conference of the birds, which sums up the basic sufi doctrine that we need to do away w the ego and all of our bullshit to reach union w god, but in this union we realize that we are god. many of the great sufi martyrs died for saying that they are god. Hallaj is one such example.
what a predicament! this story give me appreciation of a new perspective. excellent insight, anon!
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Old 18-04-2007, 01:44 PM   #14
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Stick around, Joffausy... You might just see something you never saw before. I suggest you read some of my early posts here. I was once like you.
Well before you bark up the wrong tree i DONT presently attend any church i have attended many and found them fully infiltrated by reptiles(masons) or worse (i have nose for these things) especially these Pentecostal megachruches eg Hillsong you may have heard of them and there very Lizard like prosperity preaching!.
However is the fact that a few clueless b boomers or 40 year olds are infiltrating and turning everything into a brothel, going to destroy my personal faith or willpower i doubt it!.
Ah the joys of having 70 year old parents they might be old but they raised me know that if walks like duck and qacks like duck it is duck. .

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