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Old 10-09-2014, 08:53 PM   #1
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Default Who is Sovereign, people/state(nation)/queen?

In an interview I heard today on Radio 5 at about 6 pm the interviewee said that the true purpose of the Scottish referendum was to transfer the sovereignty back to the people of Scotland.

That is very interesting to me, as it suggests that it is presumed (by some at least) that the people of Scotland (and the rest of the people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland) are currently not sovereign, and have therefore relinquished said sovereignty.

So what does that all mean? Well this guy has, in my opinion, admitted what all in the establishment already know, and that is that people are effectively "slaves" (or subjects if you prefer) by not claiming their individual sovereignty.

You are sovereign though, all of you, despite what anyone may tell you. You are a slave to no one. Never forget that.

Interestingly the woman who likes to call herself the Queen believes she will remain the Sovereign head of Scotland regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

Strange times!

And before this is moved from here, it is news as I heard it all today on the BBC
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:04 PM   #2
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I dont think that the person on the radio meant that thePEOPLE would have sovereignty, he will have meant a sovereign government.

But yes we all are sovereign individuals, unless of course we choose to be slaves, and sadly (due to fear) we have chosen the latter.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:33 PM   #3
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I appreciate what you are saying but how can a government be sovereign? It is not a real thing. Is it?
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:39 PM   #4
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It means it controls itself, governs itself without any outside interference.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by the worm that returned View Post
I appreciate what you are saying but how can a government be sovereign? It is not a real thing. Is it?
The people cannot be sovereign if they choose to be governed.

But yes you are right that a "government" is not a real thing and therefore cannot be sovereign REALLY, but I think that what sambrokyl is right, and I would also say that the word "sovereign" tends to be used very loosely, for example in the context of a "sovereign nation".
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:56 PM   #6
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Yep, it's sloppy short hand for 'self governing'.
Whatever the outcome of next week's vote it'll still be feckin' politicians running the show.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:40 PM   #7
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Yeap, the scottish have there own currency. They will be a sovereign country. But how long will they stand before they fall?

David cameron pleading not to break up the union, reverse that, he want's it.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Yep, it's sloppy short hand for 'self governing'.
Whatever the outcome of next week's vote it'll still be feckin' politicians running the show.
Then it will be corporations running the show.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:53 PM   #9
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Yes vote could force Queen to appoint Australian-style governor general

Queen Elizabeth may have to appoint a representative if Scotland votes Yes
Buckingham Palace says she will not be drawn into independence debate
Queen is head of state in 16 countries outside UK, such as Canada

Who could this be?

It's not Tony blair is it?


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A spokesman for the Monarch said she was ‘above politics’ and dismissed suggestions that she should publicly intervene in the referendum campaign.
But yet sits there watching evil dictate to the world. She has the power to stop it. In on it she is.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:54 PM   #10
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Then it will be corporations running the show.

+1
Business as usual.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:06 PM   #11
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Then it will be corporations running the show.
Corporations are people too, y'know
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:10 PM   #12
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Large organisations mainly consist of people behaving rather badly.
Organisations seem to have that effect on otherwise rational people.
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:37 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by gremlin View Post
Yeap, the scottish have there own currency. They will be a sovereign country. But how long will they stand before they fall?
Do they have a Scottish central bank? or do they get their currency from the BOE?
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:56 AM   #14
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I'd assume the "official" issue is that not The People of Scotland, but The People of Great Britain are in control there.

Behind the scenes though, we all know the sham. After the middle ages where religion and aristocracy had ruled, the "Age of Enlightenment" (hence "The Illuminati") were all about finding and implementing the methodologies that would give "The People" the illusion that they're in control.
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Old 11-09-2014, 02:02 AM   #15
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Default who is sovereign ?

Mankind
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by deadhawk View Post
Mankind
Disco!

A nation, a government, a state, a Queen isn't sovereign. They are not real things.

Only man is capable of being sovereign. Fear is used to control people and convince them that they are not sovereign (divine).

The self serving establishment relies on fear, intimidation and force to control, with "laws" like sedition and treason to previously murder (but now lock up) slave subjects.

Lovely bunch.

I hope the people of Scotland, Wales, England etc wake up soon and change things
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the worm that returned View Post
In an interview I heard today on Radio 5 at about 6 pm the interviewee said that the true purpose of the Scottish referendum was to transfer the sovereignty back to the people of Scotland.

That is very interesting to me, as it suggests that it is presumed (by some at least) that the people of Scotland (and the rest of the people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland) are currently not sovereign, and have therefore relinquished said sovereignty.

So what does that all mean? Well this guy has, in my opinion, admitted what all in the establishment already know, and that is that people are effectively "slaves" (or subjects if you prefer) by not claiming their individual sovereignty.

You are sovereign though, all of you, despite what anyone may tell you. You are a slave to no one. Never forget that.

Interestingly the woman who likes to call herself the Queen believes she will remain the Sovereign head of Scotland regardless of the outcome of the referendum.

Strange times!

And before this is moved from here, it is news as I heard it all today on the BBC
Soverignty is a very specific term and fits perfectly, meaning a state has the full right and power to govorn itself without any interference from outside agencies.

While you could easily argue, with corporations and lobby groups, this is muddied, it simply means that the Scottish people will govorn themselves without hinderance of UK polity.

The confusion lies in capitalisation. The Soverign (ie, The Queen) is the Head of State, while soverignty describes the position - much like Conservative and conservative or Liberal and liberal.

This is why the govorner of the Bank of England stated that currency union is incompatible with soverignty. Scotland, if they kept the Pound would be subservient to a foreign nation still as the Bank of England would hold its purse strings - tell it how it could and could not spend its money.

To me, this has been the major flaw for the Yes campaign.
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:21 AM   #18
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True and complete independence over your affairs isn't possible unless you close your borders, stop trading and try to ignore the outside world. It's a global world and every country is subject to pressures from outside. The UK as it is isn't immune to that either. We've been the USA's bitch since WW2.

I'm voting Yes not because I think Scotland will have full control but because I think it will have more control. We might all be puppets on strings but I'd happily cut off the ones attaching us to Westminster. I've seen enough in the last 10 years with us following the Americans around the globe on their "mission" and I want no part of that anymore. I'd rather be a small country with a very much reduced defence budget that didn't involve itself so easily or transparently with US foreign policy.

That's one major factor in my vote. There are others.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:21 PM   #19
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Corporations are people too, y'know

If a corporation is a human being then when you get a fine it's from a human being acting as a CORPORATION! No man has any more power than man.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Do they have a Scottish central bank? or do they get their currency from the BOE?




No I took notes from scotland down in the south when I worked behind a till.

Precisely, where are they going to get there money supply from? what is backing up the paper receipts?
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