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Old 27-06-2017, 08:38 AM   #1
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Default The central banking scam

This is a continued discussion from the 'possible solutions to the worlds problems' thread here https://forum.davidicke.com/showthre...post1062938680
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Old 27-06-2017, 08:41 AM   #2
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Here's the post I'm replying to and I'll reply in stages to the points raised as my previous response was destroyed by captcha

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
You are only posting conspiracy sources iamawaveofthesea.

The only time gold "holds its value" is when fixed by Law, study the history. The "value" even when fixed by law has been altered and changed multiple-times simply because gold has never provided a monetary "standard" as stated either by its supply or value. Maloney spends his time telling people metals are going to raise and the world is imploding so buy from me...

"The Secret Of Oz" is another works of fiction presented, as "history" by Bill Still.

In the "documentary" which was influenced by Ellen Brown's 2007 book, entitled; "The Web Of Debt" both authors openly misrepresent the work and intentions of why L. Frank Baum had wrote, "The Wonderful Wizard Of Oz." They present Baum has a populist, a supporter of William Jennings Bryan and claim he advocated an alleged, "Debt Free" monetary solution. L. Frank Baum was never a populist, he wrote supportive not to William Jennings Bryan(D) but for the opposition in, William McKinley(R). Baum had never supported a "Debt Free" monetary reform, he openly called for a return to the "Gold Standard" seen by his poems and writings at the time.

Bill Still is not a creditable person, he is notorious for misrepresenting people in history to push his worldview upon his audiences, as seen in the above examples. See below by Baum scholar, Michael Patrick Hearn.

'Oz' Author Never Championed Populism:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/10/op...sm-370792.html

Professor of Economics, Bradly A. Hansen (University of Mary Washington) in his 2002 essay, "The Fable of the Allegory; The Wizard of Oz in Economics"
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1183440...n_tab_contents
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ecb...85ea5e13ed.pdf

Please provide an example where I had made an error. I have no attention for a person such as Mike Maloney, one whom is only out to pump and dump his holdings. Currency is represented has legal tender and is regulated by law. "Precious Metals" so-called are not treated as money until they have been rendered by law, as for its value being "fixed."

["Automation"]
[...] see the first comment. Until you can show how robots are consumers there is no argument, only reactionary politics often from the left.

Its the same principles whether in gold or a digital imitations via Bitcoin. How well did the "Crash Goldman Sachs" campaign work? This was another pumping and dumping operation by Max Keiser.

If you provide a reference to support such claims that gold had maintained its value and was beneficial to the people. There are sole claims made that a "fine tailored suit, is to be acquired by the same coin ratio" in either period, yet no one which pushes these memes have researched such, as this is also shown to be myths used solely by gold sellers.

These same people have been reporting on an alleged, "hyper-inflation" scenario, yet none has even occurred, otherwise we would be all overflowing in excessive amounts of money. This is why people require and push for ideas of a "basic income" support.

I am not sure how "people interfere in the markets and steer things." such have no influence over the monetary policy of a nation.

Its interesting how you claim "there is a conspiracy to deliberately manipulate economies by the central bankers for their own ends" while citing Michael Hudson, a person whom keeps alleging for a Jubilee/ "forgiveness of debt." This has been shown to be a misrepresentation. It was not a "forgiveness of debt," but a forgiveness of sins and transgressions. Money and our contractual obligations would serve no purpose or value should resets be expected, there is no logic in these claims.

Five Myths about Jubilee - Institute for Faith, Work & Economics by Art Lindsley, PhD
https://tifwe.org/resource/five-myths-about-jubilee/

So you believe that the United States 1930s depression was a planned event?

You have promoted a video pushing a "Universal Basic Income" seen in the previous pages. How is a digital currency any different than already exists, to make an outcry over our digital representations of money this is 30 years too late. Its the same basic "free money" provide to all people however stated, how there are different kinds of "UBI" only shows how misplaced such a proposition is with all these multitudes.

So this is all a communist conspiracy even though banking exploitations predates modern political affiliations?
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Old 27-06-2017, 08:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
You are only posting conspiracy sources iamawaveofthesea.
No i'm not! One of the clips i posted was of an economics professor michael hudson

However there IS a conspiracy by the central bankers to destroy the current capitalist system so that they can justify the creation of an ever more centralised and globalised infrastructure. This is what they have done AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN where they themselves have orchestrated crises and then used those crises to argue for more centralised control

Lets look here at a paper created by the bank of england itself which explains that what 'conspiracy theorists' have been saying all this time is true and that banks create money from nothing when they ceate loans:

Money creation in the moderneconomy
By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.

This article explains how the majority of money in the modern economy is created by commercial
banks making loans.
• Money creation in practice differs from some popular misconceptions — banks do not act simply
as intermediaries, lending out deposits that savers place with them, and nor do they ‘multiply up’
central bank money to create new loans and deposits.
• The amount of money created in the economy ultimately depends on the monetary policy of the
central bank. In normal times, this is carried out by setting interest rates. The central bank can
also affect the amount of money directly through purchasing assets or ‘quantitative easing’.
read on here http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publi...4/qb14q102.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
The only time gold "holds its value" is when fixed by Law, study the history. The "value" even when fixed by law has been altered and changed multiple-times simply because gold has never provided a monetary "standard" as stated either by its supply or value. Maloney spends his time telling people metals are going to raise and the world is imploding so buy from me...
In the past during times of crisis people would bury their gold and sometimes those people were then unable for whatever reason to return to their stash. Centuries later when that hoard is then found by someone it makes that person rich.

This is because gold has held its value. Gold has intrinisic value as it can be used in industry and also for jewelry
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Old 27-06-2017, 08:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
"The Secret Of Oz" is another works of fiction presented, as "history" by Bill Still.

In the "documentary" which was influenced by Ellen Brown's 2007 book, entitled; "The Web Of Debt" both authors openly misrepresent the work and intentions of why L. Frank Baum had wrote, "The Wonderful Wizard Of Oz." They present Baum has a populist, a supporter of William Jennings Bryan and claim he advocated an alleged, "Debt Free" monetary solution. L. Frank Baum was never a populist, he wrote supportive not to William Jennings Bryan(D) but for the opposition in, William McKinley(R). Baum had never supported a "Debt Free" monetary reform, he openly called for a return to the "Gold Standard" seen by his poems and writings at the time.

Bill Still is not a creditable person, he is notorious for misrepresenting people in history to push his worldview upon his audiences, as seen in the above examples. See below by Baum scholar, Michael Patrick Hearn.

'Oz' Author Never Championed Populism:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/10/op...sm-370792.html

Professor of Economics, Bradly A. Hansen (University of Mary Washington) in his 2002 essay, "The Fable of the Allegory; The Wizard of Oz in Economics"
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1183440...n_tab_contents
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ecb...85ea5e13ed.pdf
A number of points here...

First of all there are powerful central banking forces who want to discredit bill still because they are terrified that people will start arguing for what bill wants which is for the power to create money to be taken out of the hands of private banks and put back into the hands of the government treasury department

Concerning Baum i personally couldn't give a damn about his views on things as he was a childrens story writer....he is simply used by still as a backdrop to a certain period of history that Still wants to speak about. That is Bills interpretation of the work of literature known as 'the wizard of Oz'

If people wanted to understand Baums work on a deeper level i would personally point them towards theosophy not economics
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Old 27-06-2017, 08:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
Please provide an example where I had made an error. I have no attention for a person such as Mike Maloney, one whom is only out to pump and dump his holdings. Currency is represented has legal tender and is regulated by law. "Precious Metals" so-called are not treated as money until they have been rendered by law, as for its value being "fixed."
Money does not need to be recognised by law it only needs to be recognised by the individuals using it. So regardless of what the rothschild controlled government decreed if you as a private citizen wanted to swap a gold coin with a local farmer for food and that farmer acknowledged the value of the gold coin then the transaction could take place

All fiat currencies have gone to zero eventually whereas precious metals are still valuable today which is why many countries are hoarding gold to prepare for a day when the dollar crashes

The central banking authorities know this which is why they are looking to discourage private ownership of gold because they want everyone tied to the fiat currency system which they control hence why in india the government is seeking to confiscate private gold as their citizens have for centuries understood the usefulness of gold as a store of value:

India Confiscates Gold, Even Jewelry, In Raids On Hidden Money
by Tyler Durden
Dec 8, 2016 3:25 AM

Global financial repression picks up steam, led by India. After declaring large denomination notes illegal, India now targets gold. It’s not just gold bars or bullion. The government has raided houses, no questions asked, confiscating jewelry. For background to this article, please see my November 27 article Cash Chaos in India, 86% of Money in Circulation Withdrawn; Cash Still King in Japan. Large denomination means 500-rupee ($7.30) and 1,000-rupee notes ($14.60), which account for more than 85 percent of the money supply. They are no longer legal tender, effective immediately.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-1...s-hidden-money
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Old 27-06-2017, 09:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
["Automation"]
[...] see the first comment. Until you can show how robots are consumers there is no argument, only reactionary politics often from the left.
Ford famously outlined the problem with automation which was that if he laid off workers and automated his production he would save money but there would then be no people in society who could afford his cars

This scenario however would not be a problem for the central bankers as they wish to create a centralised command and control economy where they distribute digital money and resources to those they wish to benefit from their largesse

Everyone else would be a 'useless eater' and would be frozen out of the system unable to access digital credits, goods, services, public transport or even building access etc. This would be achieved through the digitisation of currency which would be accessed through a microchip implanted in peoples hands which they would then swipe past sensors to access goods and services

Such a system does not need consumers to buy products as all is controlled from the central authority which would be run by the rothschild-cabal

barclays bank which has many knights of malta sitting on its board have recently made moves into the realm of digital currency and the big banks are creating their own closed blockchains on which digital currency can be used but under the central control of the banks; initially people will be encouraged to make payments through their 'smart' phones but these will be replaced down the line with 'wearables' that will control microchips and in time those will then be replaced by 'implantables':

Barclays bank wants to bring bitcoin ‘into play’
Published time: 26 Jun, 2017 12:19

British multinational bank Barclays has been in discussions with regulators about bringing digital currencies like bitcoin into service, CNBC reported citing the bank's UK chief executive Ashok Vaswani.
We have been talking to a couple of fintechs [financial technology firms – Ed.] and have actually gone with the fintechs to the FCA [Britain’s Financial Conduct Authority – Ed.] to talk about how we could bring, the equivalent of bitcoin, not necessarily bitcoin, but cryptocurrencies into play," Vaswani told CNBC.

According to him, it’s an "obviously new area we've got to be careful with...”

"(We're) working on it, (it's) not ready for prime time, we'll get there soon," he added without giving any other details.

Barclays has been experimenting with bitcoin and working with digital currency start-ups. The bank wants customers to be able to receive bitcoin payments directly in their accounts.
Last year Barclays partnered with social payments app Circle which allows users to send money in messages and supports bitcoin. The start-up received a license from the FCA in 2016. Barclays provided Circle with an account to store Sterling, as well as the payments network to transfer money.
https://www.rt.com/business/394102-b...tcoin-support/
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Old 27-06-2017, 09:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
Its the same principles whether in gold or a digital imitations via Bitcoin. How well did the "Crash Goldman Sachs" campaign work? This was another pumping and dumping operation by Max Keiser.
For that campaign to work it needed enough people to buy silver which they didn't. However those who invested in silver would have seen their investments grow

Also when the central bankers stop artificially suppressing the value of precious metals the price of peoples metals will increase

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
If you provide a reference to support such claims that gold had maintained its value and was beneficial to the people. There are sole claims made that a "fine tailored suit, is to be acquired by the same coin ratio" in either period, yet no one which pushes these memes have researched such, as this is also shown to be myths used solely by gold sellers.
gold had value 2000 years ago and it has value today

what was the dollar worth 2000 years ago? it didn't exist then did it?

And what value do you think the dollar will have in 100 years? Let me make a prediction about that: dollars won't exist in 100 years time

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
These same people have been reporting on an alleged, "hyper-inflation" scenario, yet none has even occurred, otherwise we would be all overflowing in excessive amounts of money.
The hyper-inflation scenario would occur where US dollar reserves abroad flood back into the US market. here is economist Jim rickards explaining how one such scenario could occur. if this sounds outlandish consider that china has publically called on the world to 'de-dollarise'



Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
This is why people require and push for ideas of a "basic income" support.
no the reason people have pushed the UBI idea is because millions of people are going to be laid off in the coming years due to automation. This means that the state wishes to then feed those people through UBI which will be like a large scale food bank system to stave off mass hunger and the civil unrest that would bring

I believe UBI will be used as a carrot to tempt the public into NWO state-dependency and as a transitional step towards totalitarian control under a command and control economy and surveillance panpopticon technocracy
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Old 27-06-2017, 09:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
I am not sure how "people interfere in the markets and steer things." such have no influence over the monetary policy of a nation.
They can do it by for example bailing out the banks. Or they can do bail-ins like they did in cyprus where they simply reach into peoples bank accounts and take a 'haircut' off their savings

Then there is quantitative easing money printing which devalues currency and sees the savings of middle class people gradually destroyed

The push to digitise currency is to prevent people storing any value outside the banking system. As all transactions would then be digital it would also enable the central authorities to monitor every single transaction that people made. Also peoples accounts could be debited or credited as the central authorities saw fit giving them total power over private citizens

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
Its interesting how you claim "there is a conspiracy to deliberately manipulate economies by the central bankers for their own ends" while citing Michael Hudson, a person whom keeps alleging for a Jubilee/ "forgiveness of debt." This has been shown to be a misrepresentation. It was not a "forgiveness of debt," but a forgiveness of sins and transgressions. Money and our contractual obligations would serve no purpose or value should resets be expected, there is no logic in these claims.

Five Myths about Jubilee - Institute for Faith, Work & Economics by Art Lindsley, PhD
https://tifwe.org/resource/five-myths-about-jubilee/
There are different ways in which a jubilee could work but the plan of the bankers has been to drown nations and individuals in debt so that the world is brought to a crisis from which the central bankers can then put forward their solution of a central world governement and world bank run by them

So relieving debt is a deliberate and direct undermining of their attempt at forcing debt servitude
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Old 27-06-2017, 09:25 AM   #9
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So you believe that the United States 1930s depression was a planned event?
do you not?

The whole argument of the central bankers to justify their federal reserve bill in 1913 was that a central bank was needed to provide stability except after it passed in 1913 the world then saw two world wars, a great depression, a series of other wars and periodic 'boom and bust' cycles and now global economic crises so clearly the central banks have not brought stability

The 'roaring twenties' were caused by the bankers making credit plentiful and then JP morgan, who was a rothschild agent, created a panic and the bankers restricted the money supply leading to the great depression

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
You have promoted a video pushing a "Universal Basic Income" seen in the previous pages. How is a digital currency any different than already exists, to make an outcry over our digital representations of money this is 30 years too late. Its the same basic "free money" provide to all people however stated, how there are different kinds of "UBI" only shows how misplaced such a proposition is with all these multitudes.
I personally am very cautious about UBI as i see how it could be a stepping stone to total state-dependency. However we will hear more and more about it so i think its worth talking about here so that people can begin to familiarise themselves with the ins and outs of it in order to understand the tools the NWO may deploy in order to move us all closer to complete state-dependency

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
So this is all a communist conspiracy even though banking exploitations predates modern political affiliations?
If we use the word 'communism' to mean a centrally controlled planned economy run from a central politburo which dicatates policy down to everyone else who are all held in check by a police state then YES it is a communist conspiracy. This planned for NWO would see workers dissempowered and enslaved to an all powerful state run by the central banking fraternity

''When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.''- Frederic Bastiat

''neoliberalism, as imposed by practitioners of the New World Order and financial elites, is not the opposite of totalitarian communism, but rather its apex, with a tiny minority of masters wielding life-and-death power over a vast majority of slaves. (theology of provocation)''
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/362656-tr...d-war-nuclear/
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Old 27-06-2017, 09:56 AM   #10
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Sabotage of the global economy by the central bankers:

The world economic order is collapsing and this time there seems no way out
Will Hutton
The refugee crisis is paralleled by the savage fallout from a global financial system running out of control
Sunday 11 October 2015 00.05 BST

The heart of the economic disorder is a world financial system that has gone rogue. Global banks now make profits to a extraordinary degree from doing business with each other. As a result, banking’s power to create money out of nothing has been taken to a whole new level. That banks create credit is nothing new; the system depends on the truth that not all depositors will want their money back simultaneously. So there is a tendency for some of the cash banks lend in one month to be redeposited by borrowers the following month: a part of this cash can be re-lent, again, in a third month – on top of existing lending capacity. Each lending cycle creates more credit, which is why lending has always been carefully regulated by national central banks to ensure loans will, in general, be repaid and sufficient capital reserves are held. .

The emergence of a global banking system means central banks are much less able to monitor and control what is going on. And because few countries now limit capital flows, in part because they want access to potential credit, cash generated out of nothing can be lent in countries where the economic prospects look superficially good. This provokes floods of credit, rather like the movements of refugees.

The false boom that follows seems to justify the lending. Property prices rise. Companies and households grow overconfident about their prospects and borrow freely. Economies surge well above their trend growth rates and all seems well until something – a collapse in property or commodity prices – unravels the whole process. The money floods out as quickly as it flooded in, leaving bust banks and governments desperately picking up the pieces.

Read more https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...down-recession
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Old 27-06-2017, 12:17 PM   #11
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The biggest thieving, lying, non- existent empathic low life scum, who have never done a days work in their lives, are those who actually rule the world and run a corrupt to the core system, are the psychopathic banksters, or money lenders who's manipulation and destruction of millions of innocent lives by continual wars, don't give a fuck about anyone who is not into their satanic system, but are themselves so shit scared of their own hierarchy.

Our system in a nutshell.
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Old 27-06-2017, 02:22 PM   #12
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I think there are people who question the immense power of the Rothschild dynasty over most parts of the world. I don't.

Numerous authors and documents from over a hundred years ago record the power of this family.

"The annual encyclopedia of 1868 records that Jacob (Baron James de Rothschild) had been established in Paris in 1812 with a capital of $200,000 by Maier Amschel, and that at the time of his death in 1868, 56 years later, his fortune was estimated at over $300,000,000 and his yearly income at about $40,000,000.

In comparison it may be significant to note that there was at his time no fortune in all America that equalled only one's year income of Baron James de Rothschild. The fortune of the Rothschild family in 1913 was estimated at over two billion dollars".

Just try to imagine what that amount is worth in today's money.

From "The Romance of the Rothschild" Ignatius Balla 1913



E. Knuth author of "Empire of the City" published in 1946 wrote:

"The biographers of the House of Rothschild record that men of influence and statesmen is almost every country of the world were in their pay.

Disraeli was a very close friend of Lord Rothschild and the extravagant Edward VII, acting King of England before his mother died, was deep in their confidence. A large part of profligate nobility of all Europe was deeply indebted to them"

And so it continues today.






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Old 28-06-2017, 12:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
A number of points here...

First of all there are powerful central banking forces who want to discredit bill still because they are terrified that people will start arguing for what bill wants which is for the power to create money to be taken out of the hands of private banks and put back into the hands of the government treasury department
You are starting to sound way to paranoid iamawaveofthesea to continue any meaningful discussion with. You have also failed to justify the actions by Bill Still in his presentations of myths and misrepresentations in either of his "documentaries."

So to merely highlight errors, fiction and misrepresentations made by Bill Still in his career of regurgitating other people's works this is now considered by you at least, proof that there is now a conspiracy by "there are powerful central banking forces" which wants to discredit him? These are his own wrong doings. It sounds like you hold him up too highly and are offended by even noting these small examples of many which could be raised. For the reader of this newly created thread.

The Enduring Rothschild Myth:
https://www.mises.ca/the-enduring-rothschild-myth/

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
Concerning Baum i personally couldn't give a damn about his views on things as he was a childrens story writer....he is simply used by still as a backdrop to a certain period of history that Still wants to speak about. That is Bills interpretation of the work of literature known as 'the wizard of Oz'

If people wanted to understand Baums work on a deeper level i would personally point them towards theosophy not economics
Again, you sound pretty defensive by dismissing these proven cases by stating, "i personally couldn't give a damn."

This alleged parables in relation to L. Frank Baum have always been dismissed by his scholars, (hardly a conspiracy to discredit Bill Still when such was already invalidated decades before he resurrected such "work" again to continue pushing his worldview upon his gullible audiences).

No, Baum is not simply used by Bill Still merely "as a backdrop," not when his works and personal opinions have been intentionally twisted in the opposite direction to push a false narrative. Baum was never a populist as claimed, and he had supported the "Gold Standard" not alleged, "Debt Free" money; such instances contradicts the whole purpose of "The Secret Of Oz" has with those previous examples. Baum wrote "The Wonderful Wizard Of Oz" in 1900, as stated by leading Baum scholar, Michael Patrick Hearn "[L. Frank Baum] wrote "The Wizard of Oz" to entertain children, not to lecture them about politics."

'Oz' Author Never Championed Populism:
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/10/op...sm-370792.html

"The Fable of the Allegory; The Wizard of Oz in Economics" by Professor Bradley A. Hansen (2002)
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1183440...n_tab_contents
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ecb...85ea5e13ed.pdf

Bill Still did the exact same method with "The Money Masters" a piece of fiction, presented as "history." For the readers, (as iamawaveofthesea is shown to be lacking the capacity to review such information) see these related essays written also by historian Gerry Rough in the late 1990s; they expose an extensive amount of myths and fabrications has presented by both Bill Still and G. Edward Griffin.

The First Bank of the United States:
http://www.conspiracytheories.us/the...-united-states
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http:/...loodlight.org/ (old website-essays)

I see that the user "roastpotatoes" agrees with such assertions, alleging a conspiracy exists to discredit Bill Still which his own "works" have already shown to have been done by himself. I welcome him to reply in defense of such unjustifiable actions.

"I'm not an economist, I just pretend to be one on TV." - Bill Still
http://s6.zetaboards.com/Bill_Still_...pic/1176933/1/
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Old 28-06-2017, 01:28 AM   #14
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Since you have created this separate thread its hard to follow upon the statements I have already made.

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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
They can do it by for example bailing out the banks. Or they can do bail-ins like they did in cyprus where they simply reach into peoples bank accounts and take a 'haircut' off their savings

Then there is quantitative easing money printing which devalues currency and sees the savings of middle class people gradually destroyed
This is only an assumptions, being the opposite claims that "QE" causes "hyper-inflation" which never occurred. How does an introduction of new currency cause the previous circulation to reduce in value? Is the industry and all the population conscious of how much money exists at all times to assume there is an excessive increase, which has seen by "QE" simply does not exist, money is not issued and given to people "freely."

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
The push to digitise currency is to prevent people storing any value outside the banking system. As all transactions would then be digital it would also enable the central authorities to monitor every single transaction that people made. Also peoples accounts could be debited or credited as the central authorities saw fit giving them total power over private citizens

There are different ways in which a jubilee could work but the plan of the bankers has been to drown nations and individuals in debt so that the world is brought to a crisis from which the central bankers can then put forward their solution of a central world governement and world bank run by them

So relieving debt is a deliberate and direct undermining of their attempt at forcing debt servitude
Its obvious that you never read the essay that I had referenced. There was never a case made in biblical studies for such an alleged, "forgiveness of debt" this has been a misrepresented interpretations from its original meanings, towards a "forgiveness of sins, and transgressions." By stating, "there are different ways in which a jubilee could work" ignores this and then believes it to be a true principle of economics. Our money and contractual obligations serves no purpose should it be a common practice to nullify all contracts. This claimed concept of "Jubilee" also never applied to all people, only (1) sect of.

I don't understand why you see everything has being an hidden conspiracy. You remind me of Gremlin. You would benefit well with studying the nature development of societies; from primitive tribes, to sects and holdings-villages, to towns and cities, shires, districts, countries and nations. Commerce always leads to merges, its a natural growth to an economy; its far too simplistic to view this has a " the central bankers can then put forward their solution of a central world governement and world bank run by them."
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Old 28-06-2017, 02:36 AM   #15
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do you not?
There is no evidence that the United States 1930s depression was a planned event, iamawaveofthesea

The cause nowadays is well accepted to have been due to the monetary unit being tied to the alleged, "Gold Standard" originally started in the United Kingdom which resulted in Montagu Norman (Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 to 1944) suffering with a nervous breakdown. If this was a conspiracy, what logical reason exists for why he had reacted in such a way? See below for some context of this period.

Quote:
Why did the U.S. abandon the gold standard?

To help combat the Great Depression. Faced with mounting unemployment and spiraling deflation in the early 1930s, the U.S. government found it could do little to stimulate the economy. To deter people from cashing in deposits and depleting the gold supply, the U.S. and other governments had to keep interest rates high, but that made it too expensive for people and businesses to borrow. So in 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt cut the dollar’s ties with gold, allowing the government to pump money into the economy and lower interest rates. “Most economists now agree 90 percent of the reason why the U.S. got out of the Great Depression was the break with gold,” said Liaquat Ahamed, author of the book Lords of Finance. The U.S. continued to allow foreign governments to exchange dollars for gold until 1971, when President Richard Nixon abruptly ended the practice to stop dollar-flush foreigners from sapping U.S. gold reserves.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/12715...-gold-standard
Quote:
Why We Left The Gold Standard

Gold is up. The dollar is down. People are worried about the value of paper money. There was a time, of course, when paper money was backed by gold — the era of the gold standard. The story of why that era came to an end includes a nervous breakdown, a global panic, and a presidential adviser who was an expert on cows and chickens.

The gold standard was a promise. If you had a dollar, you could take it to the government any time you want, and trade it in for a fixed amount of gold. In the U.S. year after year, $20.67 got you an ounce of gold.

In the early part of the 20th century, all the world's key economies were on the gold standard. But in 1931, the system began to unravel in the most powerful country in the world: England. When the Great Depression hit, the people in England panicked, and started trading in their paper money for gold. It got to the point where the Bank of England was in danger of running out of gold.

This was a terrifying thought — particularly for Montagu Norman, the head of the Bank of England. Norman faced an impossible dilemma: It was becoming increasingly difficult for England to remain on the gold standard. But abandoning it was unthinkable for Norman and his contemporaries, who came of age at a time when the gold standard was the unquestioned anchor of the global monetary system.

[Montagu] Norman's response to this dilemma: a nervous breakdown.

"The pressures of the job got to him, and he collapsed one day," says Liaquat Ahamed, author of the book Lords of Finance. "He thought that the future of Western Civilization was in his hands, and he basically couldn't function."


Norman's doctor told him to leave the country and get some rest. While he was gone, his colleagues at the Bank of England realized they had no choice. They were about to run out of gold. So they abandoned the gold standard. It was like a bomb went off. People all over the world thought, if England can do it, anyone can. And all around the world, as countries' economies got worse, people started turning in their paper money for gold. When President Franklin Delano Roosevelt gave first fireside chat on March 12, 1933, the U.S. had just had the mother of all bank runs.

"Because of undermined confidence on the part of the public there was a general rush by a large portion of our population to turn bank deposits into currency or gold," Roosevelt said. When he gave this speech, Roosevelt knew the gold standard was a problem. But he wasn't sure what to do about it. In fact, his top economic advisers were telling him to stay on the gold standard. They felt the same way as Montagu Norman: Gold was what held everything together. But there was one guy advising FDR to leave the gold standard – an economist who Ahamed describes as a "crank."

"George Warren had helped him deal with some of his trees on his estate," he says. "He was an agricultural economist." Warren had written a book on dairy farming, and devised a system for getting chickens to lay more eggs. He had also done a lot of work studying the way the gold standard affected commodity prices and the economy. He told FDR that the country had to leave the gold standard – and Roosevelt took his advice.

When FDR told his advisers about the decision, "they all exploded," Ahamed said. Dean Acheson, assistant secretary of the Treasury, resigned. Another adviser said it would be the end of Western Civilization. But it wasn't. The experts of the day were wrong about the gold standard. "Most economists now agree 90% of the reason why the U.S. got out of the Great Depression was the break with gold," Ahamed says.

Going off the gold standard gave the government new tools to steer the economy. If you're not tied to gold, you can adjust the amount of money in the economy if you need to. You can adjust interest rates. Almost all economists agree, the system we have today is better than the gold standard. Not perfect, but much better.

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/20...-gold-standard
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
The whole argument of the central bankers to justify their federal reserve bill in 1913 was that a central bank was needed to provide stability except after it passed in 1913 the world then saw two world wars, a great depression, a series of other wars and periodic 'boom and bust' cycles and now global economic crises so clearly the central banks have not brought stability
Again, since moving this into a new thread its hard to follow.

If you compare the United States in the 1800s against the 1914 beginnings of the Federal Reserve System, there was far less panics and more stability with such a uniformed system. This also invalidates the modern appeals nowadays when people advocate for "alternate currencies" when seen by the time periods used before the Federal Reserve. Money and people always seek uniformity.

Its one of the reasosn why the US Secret Service was created by Lincoln, in response to the large amount of counterfeiting; "alternate currencies" have always been treated and viewed with distrust, limited in region and to provide price stability with redeemability. A uniform unit, like with a uniform monetary system is the natural development of money. History and society pretty well establishes these test cases quite clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
The 'roaring twenties' were caused by the bankers making credit plentiful and then JP morgan, who was a rothschild agent, created a panic and the bankers restricted the money supply leading to the great depression
How do the "bankers make credit plentiful" do they give it away? I would expect that the claimed, "roaring twenties" was influenced by the Panic of 1921 with the United States farmers. I have never studied this period to comment further. Its to simplistic to see everything has a "conspiracy" though. The United States depression was started in the United Kingdom, you are assuming this was caused by the stock-market crash of 1929.
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Old 28-06-2017, 06:40 PM   #16
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You are starting to sound way to paranoid iamawaveofthesea to continue any meaningful discussion with. You have also failed to justify the actions by Bill Still in his presentations of myths and misrepresentations in either of his "documentaries."
well bill still actually interviews lots of people in his films so are you saying that they are all liars as well?

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Originally Posted by aura View Post
So to merely highlight errors, fiction and misrepresentations made by Bill Still in his career of regurgitating other people's works
well what he has done is bring together a great history of the US focussing on the role of finance and banking. He has no doubt done extensive research to achieve that and also interviews many people in the making of the film so that the viewer can benefit from their knowledge as well

He's done such a good job that his 'money masters' film is one of the most watched documentaries of all time! So kudos to Bill for his great work

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Originally Posted by aura View Post
this is now considered by you at least, proof that there is now a conspiracy by "there are powerful central banking forces" which wants to discredit him?
I am not just using Bill Stills films as evidence of a conspiracy by central banking families. Even in the thread this all started in I have posted all sorts of clips and articles on the subject. I've also started many threads on this forum looking at the conspiracy so I'm not sure what you are on about there

It's almost like you are projecting onto reality what you want reality to be rather then just facing what's actually in front of you. Are you feeling ok?

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Originally Posted by aura View Post
Again, you sound pretty defensive by dismissing these proven cases by stating, "i personally couldn't give a damn."
Like i said before I don't really see Baums views as important on this issue. The guy was a childrens story writer!

I also think that theosophy was an influence on the wizard of oz

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Originally Posted by aura View Post
No, Baum is not simply used by Bill Still merely "as a backdrop,"
He does use baum's life as a kind of canvas on which he can then paint the history of that period using his research and interviews so the baum story is not that important as whether baum was speaking about economics or not is irrelevant to whether or not there is a central banking scam

Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
Bill Still did the exact same method with "The Money Masters" a piece of fiction, presented as "history." For the readers, (as iamawaveofthesea is shown to be lacking the capacity to review such information) see these related essays written also by historian Gerry Rough in the late 1990s; they expose an extensive amount of myths and fabrications has presented by both Bill Still and G. Edward Griffin.
Except the bank of england has admitted itself that it does create money from loans

Also the federal reserve bank is not federal as it is a cartel of private banks and it is not a reserve as it has nothing on deposit

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Old 28-06-2017, 06:46 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by aura View Post
This is only an assumptions, being the opposite claims that "QE" causes "hyper-inflation" which never occurred. How does an introduction of new currency cause the previous circulation to reduce in value? Is the industry and all the population conscious of how much money exists at all times to assume there is an excessive increase, which has seen by "QE" simply does not exist, money is not issued and given to people "freely."
Because the purchasing power of peoples money keeps going down

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Originally Posted by aura View Post
Its obvious that you never read the essay that I had referenced. There was never a case made in biblical studies for such an alleged, "forgiveness of debt" this has been a misrepresented interpretations from its original meanings, towards a "forgiveness of sins, and transgressions." By stating, "there are different ways in which a jubilee could work" ignores this and then believes it to be a true principle of economics. Our money and contractual obligations serves no purpose should it be a common practice to nullify all contracts. This claimed concept of "Jubilee" also never applied to all people, only (1) sect of.
then listen to a professor of economics explain it to you:



Quote:
Originally Posted by aura View Post
I don't understand why you see everything has being an hidden conspiracy. You remind me of Gremlin. You would benefit well with studying the nature development of societies; from primitive tribes, to sects and holdings-villages, to towns and cities, shires, districts, countries and nations. Commerce always leads to merges, its a natural growth to an economy; its far too simplistic to view this has a " the central bankers can then put forward their solution of a central world governement and world bank run by them."
except they have told us that is what they are trying to do:

''Some even believe we [Rockefeller family] are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - One World, if you will.If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it''- David Rockefeller, p405 Memoirs
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Old 28-06-2017, 06:56 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by aura View Post
There is no evidence that the United States 1930s depression was a planned event, iamawaveofthesea

The cause nowadays is well accepted to have been due to the monetary unit being tied to the alleged, "Gold Standard" originally started in the United Kingdom which resulted in Montagu Norman (Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 to 1944) suffering with a nervous breakdown. If this was a conspiracy, what logical reason exists for why he had reacted in such a way? See below for some context of this period.

Again, since moving this into a new thread its hard to follow.

If you compare the United States in the 1800s against the 1914 beginnings of the Federal Reserve System, there was far less panics and more stability with such a uniformed system. This also invalidates the modern appeals nowadays when people advocate for "alternate currencies" when seen by the time periods used before the Federal Reserve. Money and people always seek uniformity.

Its one of the reasosn why the US Secret Service was created by Lincoln, in response to the large amount of counterfeiting; "alternate currencies" have always been treated and viewed with distrust, limited in region and to provide price stability with redeemability. A uniform unit, like with a uniform monetary system is the natural development of money. History and society pretty well establishes these test cases quite clearly.

How do the "bankers make credit plentiful" do they give it away? I would expect that the claimed, "roaring twenties" was influenced by the Panic of 1921 with the United States farmers. I have never studied this period to comment further. Its to simplistic to see everything has a "conspiracy" though. The United States depression was started in the United Kingdom, you are assuming this was caused by the stock-market crash of 1929.
The central banks can change lending rates to make credit readily available. Concerning the origins of the great depression see the following article and clip:

''For over a century Goldman Sachs has joined the Houses of Morgan, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Warburg and Lazard in lording over the US industrial base, profiting from boom and depression alike. In July 1929 Goldman launched the Shenandoah and Blue Ridge investment trusts, at a time when the burgeoning middle classes were eager to hop on the Wall Street easy money bandwagon. The Goldman Sachs Trading Corporation sold hundreds of millions of dollars worth of shares to public. They peaked at $104. All the while Goldman insiders were selling. By the fall of 1934 the shares were worth $1.75/each. One of the directors at both Shenandoah and Blue Ridge was Rockefeller cousin and later Secretary of State John Foster Dulles.

Insiders at Citibank, Chase Manhattan, Lehman and Merrill Lynch had also bailed out ahead of the Crash of 1929. Americans were outraged. A resurgent populism led to jail time for bankers such as Citibank President Charles Mitchell. It led to the passage of the Glass-Steagal Act, repealed by President Clinton in 1995, which stated that banks could be either commercial, investment or private banks- one of the three. And it led to Congressional inquiries into the Federal Reserve private banking monopoly.

Many of these investigations were conducted by the House Banking Committee, chaired by Rep. Louis McFadden (D-NY). Speaking of the Great Depression, McFadden concluded, “It was no accident. It was a carefully contrived occurence…The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so they might emerge as rulers of all of us.”

His successor, Rep. Wright Patman (D-TX), concurred, stating, “The United States today has in effect two governments. We are a duly constituted government. Then we have an independent, uncontrolled and uncoordinated government in the Federal Reserve System, operating the money powers which are reserved to Congress by the Constitution.” ''
https://hendersonlefthook.wordpress....al-enterprise/

How the Federal Reserve caused the Depression and cheated Americans out of their money.

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Old 28-06-2017, 07:09 PM   #19
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Shifting from Central Planning to a Decentralised Economy: Do we Need Central Banks?
15 January 2017
by Professor Richard A. Werner, D.Phil. (Oxon)
Paper presented at the 14th Rhodes Forum: Dialogue of Civilisations Research Institute, Panel 2: Economic Alternatives when Conventional Models Fail, Rhodos, Greece, on 1 October 2016 and at the 4th European Conference on Banking and the Economy (ECOBATE 2016), in Winchester Guildhall, Winchester UK, on 12 October 2016

I. The Central Bank Narrative

For more than the past four decades, public policy discourse, especially when touching on macroeconomic and monetary policy, has been dominated by the views held and actively sponsored by the central banks, particularly in Europe and North-America, as well as Japan.

Their policy narrative has been consistent over time and virtually identical between central banks, which is why I shall refer to it collectively as the ‘central bank narrative’. It has been mirrored in the type of economics that central bankers have supported and that has indeed subsequently become dominant in academia and among the economists selected as the experts of choice in the major newspapers and television channels: the theoreticians advancing neo-classical economics.

This central bank narrative (and hence also the dominant neo-classical economics, also known as ‘mainstream economics’) has at least five major pillars, which I shall list briefly:

1. Interest rates are the main policy variable to move the economy
2. Markets are in equilibrium, thanks to price movements that have equated demand and supply.
3. Banks are just financial intermediaries, like other non-bank financial firms. They thus do not need to be singled out in the analysis or modelled explicitly.
4. We need to save in order to fund investments that are the precondition of economic growth and development. If domestic savings are insufficient, we need to borrow from abroad or attract foreign investment.
5. Both the foreign investors and the domestic goal of high growth require deregulation, liberalization and privatization, since only in such an economy can market forces deliver high and stable growth.

The truth of the matter is: We don’t need central banks. Since 97% of the money supply is created by banks, the importance of central banks is far smaller than generally envisaged. Moreover, the kind of money that commercial banks create is not privileged at law. Legally, our money supply is simply private company credit, which can be created by any company, with or without banking license.

Eurozone countries, having given up the right to their own currencies, can still create money and reflate the economy: the government, for instance in Spain, simply needs to stop the issuance of government bonds, and fund the entire public sector borrowing requirement from the domestic banks that create it out of nothing – and can do so at more competitive rates as the bond markets: this policy of Enhanced Debt Management (Werner, 2014b) not only would make it obvious that Spain does not need the ECB, but it would also put the national debt profiteers – the bond underwriting firms such as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley – out of business.

This reality of private money creation also means that we can, without legal obstacles, create a decentralized system of local currencies, without central bank involvement.
read full article here https://professorwerner.org/shifting...central-banks/
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Old 28-06-2017, 07:24 PM   #20
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There is no evidence that the United States 1930s depression was a planned event, iamawaveofthesea

The cause nowadays is well accepted to have been due to the monetary unit being tied to the alleged, "Gold Standard" originally started in the United Kingdom which resulted in Montagu Norman (Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 to 1944) suffering with a nervous breakdown. If this was a conspiracy, what logical reason exists for why he had reacted in such a way? See below for some context of this period.
A plot by central bankers to supercede national governments...from a mainstream newspaper:

The Nazis' British bankers
Secret war documents may reveal that Germany had staunch allies at the Bank of England
Chris [email protected]_blackhurst
Sunday 30 March 1997 00:02 GMT

In a vault in Basle, Switzerland, lie some of the most politically sensitive documents of the Second World War.

Historians uncovering the story of the gold trade that financed the Nazi war machine would love to have sight of them - not because they will provide further evidence of Swiss guilt in the trade but because they could expose other countries involved, including Britain.

In the saga of Nazi gold, it is always the Swiss who are to blame; the Swiss who were prepared to accept bullion looted from the victims of German oppression to the extent that the war was prolonged longer than necessary. But if the historians are right, these papers will go to the heart of the British financial establishment and raise questions about the allegiance of one of the most powerful figures of his day, former Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Montagu "Monty" Norman. Academics believe the archive will show that the Bank, led by Sir Monty, bent over backwards to help the Nazi war machine.

In an age without television and media access, Norman's was a household name. Famed for his supercilious manner, bad temper and contempt for the political leaders of his day, he was a banker's banker, whose aim was to create a network of central bankers like himself, free of the control of governments.

That, at least, is one explanation for Norman's behaviour in the years before the Second World War. There is another: that Norman was a German sympathiser, who wanted to ensure the German economy could fuel the country's war machine and that the Nazis had an outlet for their looted gold.

So concerned were the Americans about Norman that in the summer of 1942 President Roosevelt sent a report on his activities to Sir Winston Churchill. The British Prime Minister asked Anthony Eden, his Secretary for War, to look into the American concerns, in particular the allegation that Norman had met Hjalmar Schacht, a senior German official in neutral Sweden, in May 1941.

Herr Schacht was thought to be trying to broker some sort of peace deal. Norman was his chosen conduit. Papers filed in the Eden archive at Birmingham University reveal what must have been an unprecedented exchange: Churchill's right-hand man quizzing the Governor of the Bank of England about his allegiances. Norman denied seeing Herr Schacht for over a year.

For Churchill, this was not good enough. In a memo to Eden, the Prime Minister pointed out the war was now three years old, not one year. Norman's answer, thought Churchill, was inadequate. He instructed Eden to dig deeper. But at this point, the file goes dead: what further details Eden extracted from Norman are not recorded. Typically, Churchill did not want the Americans to know of his concerns. They were sent a bland reassurance that all was well with Norman.

So what was the Governor up to? Scott Newton, lecturer in modern history at Cardiff University, says there is "nothing in the file to clear Montagu Norman of the American charge". He was rightly suspected, says Newton, of being involved in "an unsavoury peace deal behind the government's back. Bearing in mind the report came from the US President, it would have relied upon good intelligence."

Norman, says Newton, "was trying to prevent the war developing to the point where the Bank of England was in danger of losing the prestige it had built up between the wars. Norman had a view that the world ought to be run by central bankers. He was not in any sense a democrat and he was worried the war would undermine the contacts he had created." Churchill, says Newton, "could not stand him; he distrusted him enormously".

The extent of the Bank of England's involvement has still not been disclosed. Documents from the period have convinced several historians that the Bank, through its redoubtable Governor, played a pivotal role. But the records which could reveal the detail remain inaccessible to historians in the Bank of International Settlements based in Basle, Switzerland.

Established after the First World War to smooth the system of compensation by Germany to the Allies for the conflict, BIS is a bank for central banks. It is more than a mere mechanism for moving money between governments, however. The meetings of its board are talking shops for the world's most powerful financial figures, a club where they can talk without interference from politicians and government officials. One of its most influential members in the years before the Second World War was Sir Montagu Norman.

On 15 March 1939, Hitler completed his rout of Czechoslovakia, making a triumphant entrance into Prague. One of his first acts was to order the directors of the Czech national bank to hand over the country's gold reserve. For Hitler, the Czech gold was a vital replenishment of rapidly dwindling reserves. An increasingly isolated Germany needed gold to barter for raw materials.

The Czech directors told the Germans it was too late; the gold had already been deposited via BIS in the Bank of England. The Germans ordered them to retrieve it. BIS did not deal in physical transfers of money or bullion - most of them took place on paper, by central banks adjusting their accounts with each other. The Czechs called BIS, which contacted London.

Norman obliged, instructing BIS to deduct the gold's value, some $40m (pounds 24m) at 1939 prices, from the Bank of England's account in Basle. The gold went back to Czechoslovakia, and to the Reichsbank in Berlin.

News of the trade did not leak out for two months. Then, in May 1939, prompted by a tip from a journalist, George Strauss, the Labour MP, asked Neville Chamberlain, the Prime Minister, if it was true that the national treasure of Czechoslovakia was being given to Germany.

The Government, advised by Norman, said it was impossible to determine who was the real owner of gold that passed through BIS; that the Basle institution was heavily protected by international protocols; and that as a banker for central banks, its dealings had to remain confidential.

In fact, Norman knew all along who was the rightful owner of the gold. He had told a Whitehall committee on 22 March 1939 that he had received a call from the Governor of the Bank of France, on behalf of BIS, asking for the return of the gold. "We did absolutely nothing," says historian Scott Newton. "Here was Czechoslovakia that had been invaded, and here was Monty Norman approving the transfer of its gold to the Reichsbank."

Norman's agreement, says Newton, was no surprise. "Monty Norman and the leading merchant banks in the City were up to their necks in helping to prop up the German financial system. The Germans owed a lot of money to British banks."

The bankers did not want the Americans to emerge from the war with the upper hand, economically. Dr Neville Wylie, research fellow in Modern History at Cam- bridge University, says "there was a strain of German sympathy within the Bank and the City. The alternative - of dealing with the rampant capitalists across the Atlantic - did not appeal."

How far that sympathy went, beyond the Czechoslovakian deal, will only be revealed when the BIS records are finally opened.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/th...s-1275885.html
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