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Old 29-10-2009, 02:37 PM   #21
rapunzel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herushura View Post
Adonis was a Phoenician god symbolising vegetation scorched by the heat of the sun

Aten is symbolized with Heat, with Ray expanding from the Sun, One of the rays hold an Ankh that symbolized Vegetation and Life.

Tammuz is the counterparts of Adon, both are Associated with the Sun and Life.

another counterparts is Attis, Consort of the Mother Goddess and a Sun/Vegetation God.

Aten is portrayed as the Giver of Life and the Sun.

The Semetic D and Kemetic T are interchangeable.

Aten is also, commonly paired with Ra, thus called "Aten-Ra"
Adon is also commonly paired with yhwh thus called "Adoni-YHWH"

Also believe that semetic W and kemetic R are also interchangeable.
Ra became Wah > thus yhwh means "I am Ra"

Tammuz is an agricultural deity not specifically associated with the sun and where did the idea come from that the Ankh symbolises vegetation? Attis only became associated with the sun in the later Roman Empire, after Claudius.

Aten is not the sun but the sun disk and his full name as seen on stele of Ahkenaten’s time was The Rahorus who rejoices in the horizon, in his/her Name of the Light which is seen in the sun disc.

As for Aten becoming Adon you won’t find many scholars agreeing with that idea. And the suggestion that semitic W and Egyptian R are interchangeable is very simplistic. Perhaps you should look at this link and follow up on the references.

http://homepage.univie.ac.at/helmut....e/EgnSem01.pdf

or look at this:

“Hebrew dyw meaning “ink” is a very early loan word from Egyptian ry.t probably going back to the Middle Kingdom when Egyptian r regularly corresponded to Semitic d

Source:
http://www.bookreviews.org/pdf/408_983.pdf

Your idea that Ra became Yhwh is thus untenable

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Old 01-11-2009, 12:17 AM   #22
felakuti
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The records do not show that the ancient Egyptians were ''Irish'' or ''English'' or ''French''.

The records show that the ancient Egyptians were Africans.

I've no idea why Europeans would wish to claim an African civilization as theirs.


Ancient Text Source (Primary):


It has been observed that the annual procession of the sacred ship so often represented on Egyptian monuments, and the return of the deity from Ethiopia after some days' absence, serves to show the Ethiopian origin of Thebes, and of the worship of Jupiter Ammon.

"I think," says Heeren, after quoting a passage from Diodorus about the holy ship, "that this procession is represented in one of the great sculptured reliefs on the temple of Karnak. The sacred ship of Ammon is on the shore with its whole equipment, and is towed along by another boat. It is therefore on its voyage. This must have been one of the most celebrated festivals, since, even according to the interpretation of antiquity, Homer alludes to it when he speaks of Jupiter's visit to the Ethiopians, and his twelve days' absence."

Long, Egyptian Antiquities vol. 1 p. 96. Eustathius, vol. 1 p. 98, sq. (ed. Basil) (quoting from the the Iliad, written by Homer in 800 B.C.E )


Greek historian Diodorus Siculus. From his own statements we learn that he traveled in Egypt around 60 BC. His travels in Egypt probably took him as far south as the first Cataract into Africa south of the Sahara, known to the Greeks as ''Ethiopia''.


"They (the Ethiopians) say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris ["King of Kings and God of Gods] having been the leader of the colony . . . they add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws." Diodorus's declared intention to trace the origins of the cult of Osiris, alias the Greek Dionysus also commonly known by his Roman name Bacchus.

The Homeric Hymn "To Dionysus" locates the birth of Dionysus in a mysterious city of Nysa "near the streams of Aegyptus" (Hesiod 287). Diodorus cites this reference as well as the ancient belief that Dionysus was the son of Ammon, king of Libya (3.68.1), and much of Book 3 of the Bibliotheka Historica is devoted to the intertwined histories of Dionysus and the god-favored Ethiopians whom he believed to be the originators of Egyptian civilization. [emphasis added]

(1st century B.C., Diodorus Siculus of Sicily, Greek historian and contemporary of Caesar Augustus, Universal History Book III. 2. 4-3. 3)


Diodorus devoted an entire chapter of his world history, the Bibliotheke Historica, or Library of History (Book 3), to the Kushites ["Aithiopians"] of Meroe. Here he repeats the story of their great piety, their high favor with the gods, and adds the fascinating legend that they were the first of all men created by the gods and were the founders of Egyptian civilization, invented writing, and given the Egyptians their religion and culture. (3.3.2).


"Now they relate that of all people the Aithiopians were the earliest, and say that the proofs of this are clear. That they did not arrive as immigrants but are the natives of the country and therefore rightly are called authochthonous is almost universally accepted. That those who live in the South are likely to be the first engendered by the earth is obvious to all. For as it was the heat of the sun that dried up the earth while it was still moist, at the time when everything came into being, and caused life, they say it is probable that it was the region closest to the sun that first bore animate beings".



Diodorus continues:

"They further write that it was among them that people were first taught to honor the gods and offer sacrifices and arrange processions and festivals and perform other things by which people honor the divine. For this reason their piety is famous among all men, and the sacrifices among the Aithiopians are believed to be particularly pleasing to the divinity,"


"The Aithiopians [Ethiopians] say that the Egyptians are settlers from among themselves and that Osiris was the leader of the settlement.The customs of the Egyptians, they say, are for the most part Aithiopian, the settlers having preserved their old traditions. For to consider the kings gods, to pay great attention to funeral rites, and many other things, are Aithiopian practices, and also the style of their statues and the form of their writing are Aithiopian.

Also the way the priestly colleges are organized is said to be the same in both nations. For all who have to do with the cult of the gods, they maintain, are [ritually] pure: the priests are shaved in the same way, they have the same robes and the type of scepter shaped like a plough, which also the kings have, who use tall pointed felt hats ending in a knob, with the snakes that they call the asp (aspis) coiled round them."


"There are also numerous other Aithiopian tribes [i.e. besides those centered at Meroe]; some live along both sides of the river Nile and on the islands in the river, others dwell in the regions that border on Arabia [i.e. to the east], others again have settled in the interior of Libya [i.e. to the west]. The majority of these tribes, in particular those who live along the river, have black skin, snub-nosed faces, and curly hair".

(Diodous Siculus, Bibliotheke, 3. Translated by Tomas Hagg, in Fontes Historiae Nubiorum, vol. II: From the Mid-Fifth to the First Century BC (Bergen, Norway, 1996))

--------------------------------



Aristotle (384-322 B.C.E.) Greek philosopher, scientist, and tutor to Alexander the Great.

Aristotle is said to have written 150 philosophical treatises.


"Too black a hue marks the coward as witness Egyptians and Ethiopians and so does also too white a complexion as you may see from women, the complexion of courage is between the two."

(Physiognomics, Vol. VI, 812a)


Aristotle makes reference to the hair form of Egyptians and Ethiopians: "Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy-legged? Is it because the bodies of living creatures become distorted by heat, like logs of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations, and curliness is as it were crookedness of the hair."

(Physiognomics, Book XIV, p. 317)

------------------------------


The evidence of Lucian (Greek writer, 125 B.C.) is as explicit as that of the previous writers. He introduces two Greeks, Lycinus and Timolaus, who start a conversation:


Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): "This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin . . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman."


Timolaus: "But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus, All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place."

(Lucian, Navigations, paras 2-3)

--------------------------


Herodotus (490-425 B.C.E.) The first Greek historian. Called the Father of History.

He reports faithfully what the Egyptian priests communicated to him as the history of their country, when he visited Egypt about 460 to 450 BC.


"I went as far as Elephantine [Aswan] to see what I could with my own eyes, but for the country still further south I had to be content with what I was told in answer to my questions. South of Elephantine the country is inhabited by Ethiopians. . . Beyond the island is a great lake, and round its shores live nomadic tribes of Ethiopians. After crossing the lake one comes again to the stream of the Nile, which flows into it . . . After forty days journey on land along the river, one takes another boat and in twelve days reaches a big city named Meroë, said to be the capital city of the Ethiopians. The inhabitants worship Zeus and Dionysus alone of the Gods, holding them in great honor".


(Herodotus: The Histories, c 430 BCE, Book II, chap. 100



Herodotus also asserted that "the names of nearly all the gods came to Greece from Egypt . . . for the names of all the gods have been known in Egypt from the beginning of time . . . It was the Egyptians too who originated, and taught the Greeks . . . ceremonial meeting, processions and liturgies . . . The Egyptians were also the first to assign each month and each day to a particular deity, and to foretell the date of a man's birth, his character, his fortunes, and the day of his death . . . The Egyptians, too have made more use of omens and prognostics than any other nation. . ."

(Herodotus, The Histories, 149-150; 152; 159).



''There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them.

Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too. But further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times.

The Phoenicians and the Syrians of Palestine themselves confess that they learned the custom of the Egyptians. And the Syrians who dwell about the rivers Thermodon and Parthenius, as well as their neighbors the Macronians, say that they have recently adopted it from the Colchians.

Now these are the only nations who use circumcision, and it is plain that they all imitate herein the Egyptians. With respect to the Ethiopians, indeed, I cannot decide whether they learned the practice of the Egyptians, or the Egyptians of them (it is undoubtedly of very ancient date in Ethiopia). But that the others derived their knowledge of it from Egypt is clear to me, from the fact that the Phoenicians, when they come to have commerce with the Greeks, cease to follow the Egyptians in this custom, and allow their children to remain uncircumcised.'' (Herodotus, The Histories, Book 2:104)

----------------------



The opinion of the ancient writers on the Egyptians is more or less summed up by French Egyptologist Gaston Maspero The Dawn of Civilization (1894), when he says, "By the almost unanimous testimony of ancient historians, they [the Egyptians] belong to an African race which first settled in Ethiopia on the Middle Nile: following the course of the river they gradually reached the sea."

The German scholar, Eugen Georg, in his book The Adventure of Mankind (1931) p. 121, tells us about the ". . . world-wide dominance of Ethiopian representatives of the black race. They were supreme in Africa and Asia. In upper Egypt and India they erected mighty religious centers and mastered a perfect technique in the molding of bronze --- and they even infiltrated through Southern Europe for a thousand years."

-----------------------------


Stephanus of Byzantium, who is said to represent the opinions of the most ancient Greeks, says:

"Ethiopia was the first established country on the earth, and the Ethiopians were the first who introduced the worship of the Gods and who established laws."

Quoted by John D. Baldwin, Prehistoric Nations, p. 62.

------------------------



According to Professor Emeritus Frank M. Snowden Jr., (AB, AM, Ph.D.) Howard University Classicist Department --- reading of the sources, the Ethiopians "pioneered" religion, and were key to the origin and propagation of many of the customs which existed in Egypt. The Egyptians, it was argued, were descendants of the Ethiopians. Snowden states that the term Kushites, Nubians, or Ethiopians is to used in much the same way as the modern term "colored", "black, or Negro".

"The experiences of those Africans who reached the alien shores of Greece and Italy constituted an important chapter in the history of classical antiquity," he writes. "Using evidence from terra cotta figures, paintings, and classical sources like Herodotus and Pliny the Elder, Snowden proves, contrary to our modern assumptions, that Greco-Romans did not view Africans with racial contempt. Many Africans worked in the Roman Empire as musicians, artisans, scholars, and generals as well as slaves, and they were noted as much for their virtue as for their appearance of having a "burnt face" (from which came the Greek name Ethiopian)."

(Snowden Jr., Frank M. Blacks in Antiquity: Ethiopians in the Greco-Roman Experience. Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Mass.,1970; Before Color Prejudice: The Ancient View of Blacks (1983).)


Frank M. Snowden Jr. (Washington, D.C.), one of the foremost scholars on blacks in ancient Egypt, Greece, and Italy, is Professor Emeritus of Classics at Howard University in Washington, D.C.

A graduate of Harvard, Snowden has served as a member of the U.S. delegation to UNESCO in Paris and as a cultural attaché to the American Embassy in Rome. As a U.S. specialist lecturer for the Department of State, Snowden delivered lectures in Africa, Egypt, Italy, Austria, Greece, India, and Brazil.

His many books on blacks in the ancient Mediterranean world include Blacks in Antiquity (1970), The Image of the Black in Western Art I: From the Pharaohs to the Fall of the Roman Empire, which he co-authored (1976), and Before Color Prejudice: The Ancient View of Blacks (1983). Snowden’s nominator writes, “Howard students will remember him for his dramatic classroom recitations in ancient Greek and Latin from memory and his plea for the beauty and universality of great literature.”

-------------------------



Basil Davidson, born on November 9, 1914 in Bristol, England, well-known English scholar of African history. Combining archeological evidence and scholarly research Davidson traces the exciting development of the rich kingdoms of the lost cities of Africa, fifteen hundred years before European ships first came to African shores. "East Africa has developed from a completely primitive country, . . . more backward than the Stone Age . . ."

Yet the Stone Age blacks of Khartoum (in Sudan) manufactured pots before the inhabitants of Jericho, the world's earliest known city. The Khartoum Mesolithic culture is dated about 7000 B.C. Prehistoric Egyptian artifacts dated a thousand years later would reflect a Khartoum influence. Between 5th century B.C. and 3rd century A.D., Meroe in Sudan was an iron-smelting center. 12th century Arab writer Edrisi reported numerous iron mines in Malindi and Sofala. Edrisi rated Sofala iron better than India iron. At that time, southeastern Africa exported smelted iron to India. (Malindi and Sofala are in modern Kenya and Mozambique respectively.)

(Davidson, Basil, The Lost Cities of Africa, Back Bay Books; Revised edition (1959)). Davidson has written more than 30 books on Africa since 1952.

------------------------


The Senegalese Physicist and African Egyptologist Cheikh Anta Diop (1923-1986) tells us in his book The African Origin of Civilization Myth or Reality (1974) that the Greek writer, Herodotus, may be mistaken, when he reports the customs of a people. "But one must grant that he was at least capable of recognizing the skin color of the inhabitants of countries he visited."

His descriptions of the Egyptians were the descriptions of a Black people. At this point the reader needs to be reminded of the fact that at the time of Herodotus's visit to Egypt and other parts of Africa (between 480 and 425 B.C.) Egypt's Golden Age was over. Egypt had suffered from several invasions, mainly the Kushite invasions, coming from within Africa, and starting in 751 B.C., and the Assyrians' invasions from Western Asia (called the Middle East), starting in 671 B.C. If Egypt, after years of invasions by other people and nations was a distinct Black African nation at the time of Herodotus, shouldn't we at least assume that it was more so before these invasions occurred?

Until the publication of James G. Spady's article, "Negritude, Pan-Benegritude and the Diopian Philsophy of African History," in A Current Bibliography on African Affairs, volume 5, number 1, January, 1972, and an interview by Harun Kofi Wangara, published in Black World magazine, February, 1974, Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop was known to only a small group of Black writers and teachers in the United States. His major works includes The African Origin of Civilization: Myth or Reality, Lawrence Hill & Co; (1983)

(The book presents the historical, archaeological and anthropological evidence that supports the theory that the civilization of ancient Egypt, the first that history records, was actually Negroid in origin); The Peopling of Ancient Egypt & the Deciphering of the Meroitic Script, Karnak House, (1997) (A concise report of the 1974 Cairo conference and contains the arguments concerning the ethnic, linguistic and cultural composition of the ancient Egyptians as well as the deciphering of the merotic script). All of his books were originally published by Presence Africaine, the Paris-based publication arm of the International Society of African Culture.



The Western Dilemma:


If Egypt is a dilemma in Western historiography, it is a created dilemma. The Western historians, in most cases, have rested the foundation of what is called "Western Civilization" on the false assumptions, or claim, that the ancient Egyptians were white people.

To do this they had to ignore great masterpieces on Egyptian history written by other white historians who did not support this point of view, such as Gerald Massey's great classic, Ancient Egypt, The Light of the World, (1907) and his other works, A Book of the Beginnings and The Natural Genesis. Other neglected works by white writers are Politics, Intercourse, and Trade of the Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Egyptians, by A.H.L. Heeren (1833), and Ruins of Empires, by Count Volney (1787).



In the first chapter of his book, Dr. Diop refers to the Southern African origins of the people later known as Egyptians. Here he is on sound ground with a lot of support coming from another group of neglected white writers.

In his book Egypt, British scholar Sir E.A. Wallis Budge says: "The prehistoric native of Egypt, both in the old and in the new Stone Ages, was African and there is every reason for saying that the earliest settlers came from the South." He further states: "There are many things in the manners and customs and religions of the historic Egyptians that suggests that the original home of their prehistoric ancestors was in a country in the neighborhood of Uganda and Punt." (Some historians believe that the biblical land of Punt was in the area known on modern maps as Somalia.)


European interest in "Ethiopia and the Origin of Civilization" dates from the early part of the nineteenth century and is best reflected in a little known, though important, paper in German Egyptologist Karl Richard Lepsius' Incomparable Survey of the Monumental Ruins in the Ethiopian Nile Valley in 1842-1844. The records found by Lepsius tend to show how Ethiopia was once able to sustain an ancient population that was numerous and powerful enough not only to challenge but, on a number of occasions, to conquer completely the populous land of Egypt. Further, these records show that the antiquity of Ethiopian civilization had a direct link with civilization of ancient Egypt.


Many of the leading antiquarians of the time, based largely on the strength of what the classical authors, particularly Greek historian Diodorus Siculus (1st century B.C.) and Stephanus of Byzantium, had to say on the matter, were exponents of the view that the ancient Ethiopians, or at any rate, the Black people of remote antiquity were the earliest of all civilized peoples and that the first civilized inhabitants of ancient Egypt were members of what is referred to as the Black race who entered the country as emigrants from Ethiopia.

A number of Europe's leading writers on the civilizations of remote antiquity have written brilliant defenses of this point of view. Some of these writers are Brice, Count Volney, Fabre, d'Oliver, and Heeren. In spite of the fact that these writers defended this thesis with all the learning at their command and documented their defense, most of the present-day writers of African history continue to ignore their findings.


In 1825, German backwardness in this respect came definitely to an end. In that year, Arnold Hermann Heeren (1760-1842), Professor of History and Politics in the University of Gottengen and one of the ablest of the early exponents of the economic interpretation of history, published, in the fourth and revised edition of his great work Ideen Uber Die Politik, Den Verkehr Und Den Handel Der Vornehmsten Volker Der Alten Weld, a lengthy essay on the history, culture, and commerce of the ancient Ethiopians, which had profound influence on contemporary writers in the conclusion that it was among these ancient Black people of Africa and Asia that international trade was first developed.

He thinks that as a by-product of these international contacts there was an exchange of ideas and cultural practices that laid the foundations of the earliest civilizations of the ancient world.

Heeren in his researches says: "From the remotest times to the present, the Ethiopians have been one of the most celebrated, and yet the most mysterious of nations. In the earliest traditions of nearly all the more civilized nations of antiquity, the name of this distant people is found. The annals of the Egyptian priests are full of them, and the nations of inner Asia, on the Euphrates and Tigris, have interwoven the fictions of the Ethiopians with their traditions of the wars and conquests of their heroes; and, at a period equally remote, they glimmer in Greek mythology. When the Greeks scarcely knew Italy and Sicily by name, the Ethiopians were celebrated in the verses of their poets, and when the faint gleam of tradition and fable gives way to the clear light of history, the lustre of the Ethiopians is not diminished."

-----------------------


The French writer Constantin-François Volney (1757-1820), in his important work, The Ruins of Empires, extends this point of view by saying that the Egyptians were the first people to "attain the physical and moral sciences necessary to civilized life." In referring to the basis of this achievement he states further that, "It was, then, on the borders of the Upper Nile, among a Black race of men, that was organized the complicated system of worship of the stars, considered in relation to the productions of the earth and the labors of agriculture; and this first worship, characterized by their adoration under their own forms and national attributes, was a simple proceeding of the human mind."

Volney's Ruins; or, Meditation on the Revolutions of Empires, Boston, J. Mendum, 1869.

------------------------



English traveller Thomas Legh, member of the British Parliament, visited Egypt & Nubia in 1812-1814, was one of the first Europeans to visit the archaeological sites above the First Cataract and to publish plates of ruins that no longer exist today. Legh writes: "There has been considerable dispute about the colour of the ancient Egyptians, some authors asserting that they were Negroes, while others maintain that the present Copts are their descendants, and attempt to prove their supposition by the appearance of mummies, which exhibit complexions of dusky brown, lips occasionally thick, but the nose frequently aquiline.

The opinion that the former inhabitants of the country were Negroes is founded chiefly on the expressions used by Herodotus, who calls them 'dark-coloured and woolly haired', and on the character of the head of the Sphinx, which has the Negro features, and may be justly supposed to offer a correct representation of the countenance of the Egyptians. On the other hand, with respect to the present Copts, it cannot be denied, that the dark hue of their hair and eyes, the former of which is frequently not more curled than is occasionally seen among Europeans, their dusky brown complexions and aquiline noses, all correspond pretty exactly with the paintings to be found in the tombs of Thebes.

-----------------------



Over a generation ago African American historians such as Carter G. Woodson, W.E.B. Du Bois, Drusilla Dunjee Houston, Willis N. Huggins, J. A. Rogers, and Charles C. Seifort read the works of these radical writer historians and began to expand on their findings. This tradition continued and is reflected in the works of present day Black historians such as John G. Jackson's Introduction to African Civilizations (1970), Yosef ben-Jochannan's Black Man of the Nile (1972), Chancellor Williams's The Destruction of Black Civilization: Great Issues of a Race From 4500 B.C. to 2000 A.D. (1971), and Ivan Van Sertima, Egypt Revisited. Transaction Publishers, New Brunswick (USA) & London (U.K.), 1999.

---------------------------


Egyptology developed in concurrence with the development of the slave trade and the colonial system. It was during this period that Egypt was literally taken out of Africa, academically. Historian Basil Davidson also states that throughout history "the land of Ancient Egypt appears to have detached itself from the delta of the Nile, some five and a half thousand years ago, and sailed off into the Mediterranean on a course veering broadly towards the coasts of Syria". (Basil Davidson, The Ancient World and Africa: Whose Roots? Race & Class (Vol. 29, no. 2, 1987).

-----------------------



Races of Africa, according to Edith Sanders, went through several editions and was reprinted until 1966 virtually unchanged. Much of the more vulgar scholarship on the 'racial' ancestry of the ancient Nile valley Africans can be traced to the intensity of racism in Europe from the mid-nineteenth century onwards. Its decline after the second world war.

(Edith R. Sanders, 'The Hamitic hypothesis: its origin and functions in time perspective', Journal of African History

(Vol. 10, no. 4, 1969), pp. 521-32).

---------------------



Flora Shaw's (alias Lady Flora Lugard) book is an extraordinary look at the history of Africa, which she gathered from countless sources, and one would imagine a great deal of it came from the British Library and from the archives of The Times of London, for whom she had for many years been the Foreign Political Correspondent. She had always been known to be an intensive researcher into her subject matter, and one wonders at the months and probably years she put into this undertaking, which became the reference work for so many future books on Africa. This book was first publish 100 years ago showing the detail and descriptive power, and the greatness that Africa once was. Lady Lugard argues that:



"When the history of Negroland comes to be written in detail, it may be found that the kingdoms lying towards the eastern end of Sudan (classical home of Ancient Ethiopians) were the home of races who inspired, rather than of races who received, the tradition of civilization associated for us with the name of ancient Egypt. For they cover on either side of the Upper Nile between the latitudes of ten degrees and seventeen degrees, territories in which are found monuments more ancient than the oldest Egyptian monuments.

If this should prove to be the case and civilized world be forced to recognize in a black people the fount of its original enlightenment, it may happen that we shall have to revise entirely our view of the black races, and regard those who now exist as the decadent representatives of an almost forgotten era, rather than as the embryonic possibility of an era yet to come."


"The fame of the ancient Ethiopians (ancient Kushites) was widespread in ancient history. Herodotus described them as the tallest, most beautiful and long-lived of the human races, and before Herodotus, Homer, in even more flattering language, described them as the most just of men, the favorites of the gods. The annals of all the great early nations of Asia Minor full of them. The Mosaic records allude to them frequently; but while they are described as the most powerful, the most just, and the most beautiful of the human race, they are constantly spoken of as Black, and there seems to be no other conclusion to be drawn than that remote period of history, the leading race of the Western World was a Black race."

Lady Lugard/Flora Shaw Lugard, Asa G. Hilliard, III, A Tropical Dependency: An Outline of the Ancient History of the Western Sudan With an Account of the Modern Settlement of Northern Nigeria, Black Classic Press (1996)

--------------------


A Shift in the Perception of Ancient Egypt:


Further archaeological discoveries continue to legitimize the southern origin of Egyptian civilization. Archaeologist Bruce Williams's discovery of the Qustul incense burner and of a city at Kerma dating back to 4,500 BCE. (Bruce Williams, 'The Lost Pharaohs of Nubia', in Ivan van Sertima (ed.), Egypt Revisited (New Brunswick, NJ, Transaction, 1993). Williams also claims that there were southern predecessors of the ancient Egyptian pharaohs, one of the latest results of archaeological explorations in the northern Sahara should be noted:


"The Sahara west of the Nile in southern Egypt was hyperarid and unoccupied during most of the late Pleistocene epoch. About 11,000 years ago the summer monsoons of central Africa moved into Egypt, and temporary lakes or playas were formed. The Nabta Playa depression, which is one of the largest in southern Egypt, is a kidney shaped basin of roughly 10km by 7km in area. We report the discovery of megalithic alignments and stone circles next to locations of Middle and Late Neolithic communities at Nabta, which suggest the early development of a complex society.

The southward shift of the monsoons in the Late Neolithic age rendered the area once again hyperarid and uninhabitable some 4,800 radiocarbon years before the present (years BP). This well-determined date establishes that the ceremonial complex of Nabta, which has alignments to cardinal and solstitial directions, was a very early megalithic expression of ideology and astronomy. Five megalithic alignments within the playa deposits radiate outwards from megalithic structures, which may have been funerary structures.

The organization of the megaliths suggests a symbolic geometry that integrated death, water, and the Sun. An exodus from the Nubian Desert at 4,800 years BP may have stimulated social differentiation and cultural complexity in pre-dynastic Upper Egypt.

(J. McKim Malville, Fred Wendorf, Ali A Mazar and Romauld Schild, Megaliths and Neolithic Astronomy in Southern Egypt, Nature (Vol. 392, no. 2, April 1998).)



The Mystery of the Black Mummy

This programme explores the enigmatic central Saharan society which once spanned the entire north African continent. We unravel their tale through the story of the discovery of the black mummy, Uan Muhuggiag. It soon becomes obvious that these people were responsible for an extraordinary array of innovations which later became famous under the Egyptians. Their presence re-writes the history of Egypt and of the entire continent of Africa.

Professor Fabrizio Mori discovered the black mummy at the Uan Muhuggiag rockshelter.


Evidence of the Badarians into Prehistoric Egypt (4500-3800 BC)



Conclusion:



In many ways Egypt is the key to ancient African history. African history is out of kilter until ancient Egypt is looked upon as a distinct African nation. The Nile River played a major role in the relationship to Egypt to the nations in Southeast Africa. During the early history of Africa, the Nile was a great cultural highway on which elements of civilization came into and out of inner Africa.



John D. Baldwin's Pre-History Nations or Inquiries Concerning Some of the Great Peoples and Civilizations of Antiquity and Their Probable Relation to a Still Older Civilization of the Ethiopians or Cushites of Arabia (1869). Baldwin, commenting on the greatness of the Cushite people, says that early in the period of its colonizing enterprise, commercial greatness, and extensive empire, it established colonies in the valleys of the Nile and the Euphrates, which in later ages became Barbary, Egypt, and Chaldea.

The ancient Cushite nation occupied Arabia and other extensive regions of Africa, India, and Western Asia to the Mediterranean. He concludes that "The old notion that Africa is chiefly a land of black savages arose from ignorance of the country, which could not be removed, but, on the contrary, was heightened by slave-trading communication . . . They could not describe truthfully what came under their observation, but they sought to excuse their own frightful savagery by describing Africa as a land of Negroes in the darkest and most hopeless condition of debasement. When this had been repeated many times, they ventured to represent their kidnapping villains as missionary agencies, intent on transferring savages to Christian countries for their own good."

American Anthropological Association Statement on "Race" (May 17, 1998):


Turning to the major falsification of the history of mankind, as he puts it, Cheikh Anta Diop underlines that the time has come to bring justice to the black races, and to give black people their due credit for leading the march, and blazing a trail for humanity to follow.

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Old 03-11-2009, 07:00 PM   #23
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The records do not show that the ancient Egyptians were ''Irish'' or ''English'' or ''French''.

The records show that the ancient Egyptians were Africans.

I've no idea why Europeans would wish to claim an African civilization as theirs.
All or some? Dynastic or Pre? I don't doubt what you posted...

Just for the record, don't question records, everything is ok...please move along to your next shopping experience.

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Old 03-11-2009, 08:11 PM   #24
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Default Red haired Mummies

Red Haired Mummies of Egypt

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/redhai...miesegypt.html


Egyptian Mummies with Blond, Brown and Red hair

http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/0...-and-red-hair/

THE PREDYNASTIC AND MOST EARLY DYNASTIC EGYPTIANS WERE CAUCASOID-EUROPEANS

Prior to 2000-BC especially, Egyptians were of Caucasoid-European ethnicity. This is evidenced by the physical anthropology of oldest mummies found, as well as busts or statues of the Pharaohs and their wives, coloured wall paintings and descriptions in historical accounts. Beyond about 1500 BC the population became increasingly mixed with Nubians from the South of Egypt and present day Egyptians stem from this latter era admixture. The last few Pharaohs of Egypt were Nubians. Shabaka (721 to 706 BC) consolidated the Nubian Kingdom's control over all of Egypt from Nubia down to the Delta region.

The majority of the Caucasoid-European occupants of Egypt began to exodus the increasingly arid country as early as 5000 BC, preferring the verdant climes of Europe which had shed it's glaciers and was becoming increasingly more habitable over vast regions. The migrants left waymark trails out of Egypt, all along the seacoast of North Africa to the Pillars of Hercules, where they crossed the thin strip of water into Europe. They left their waymark trails up the coast of Spain and Portugal towards France and Scandinavia and these survived intact into the late 19th century. Those coming out of Egypt brought their harps, bagpipes, plinn rhythms, mathematics, measurements, astronomical knowledge, navigational knowledge and even the venerable Oak tree with them.

The same measurements that were used to build the Pyramids were also in use within Europe prior to 5000 BC. The thousands of large menhirs (obelisks) erected at Carnac and other areas of Brittany in France represent a huge library of mathematical information from Egypt. These French obelisk sites were built from as early as 5000 BC and contain the same information and using the same modus operandi (by way of distance and angle from hubstone positions to individual outer-marker components), as one finds at sites like Nazca in Peru.

The mummy of Queen Tiy has "wavy brown hair."

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/Nazca/Anci...0Egyptians.htm

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Old 03-11-2009, 08:18 PM   #25
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Thumbs up Handbags Down!!!

Thank God...

A thread without handbags...
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:39 PM   #26
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Ancient Egypt was multi-racial, and it worked. That is clear, and a lesson for us all.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:10 PM   #27
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Default Egypt

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Ancient Egypt was multi-racial, and it worked. That is clear, and a lesson for us all.
Could you explain how it worked GS

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5191903AAT0lcb

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

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Old 04-11-2009, 08:28 PM   #28
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Could you explain how it worked GS

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5191903AAT0lcb

When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Just look to its lasting influence on the world, its font of culture and knowledge, and its achievements before its fall. Rome didn't do too badly either, while it lasted, and the Pope is still reaping the benefits.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:59 PM   #29
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The Irish Origins Of Civilization (1 of 6) 1h47


The other parts are on R-CANE-1's myspace.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:01 PM   #30
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Divide & Rule.

The games 'they' play on their masonic chess board, Enochian manipulations.

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Old 04-11-2009, 09:10 PM   #31
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Ancient Egypt was multi-racial, and it worked. That is clear, and a lesson for us all.
Your post was a lesson for me - thanks
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:04 PM   #32
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Your post was a lesson for me - thanks
This might help.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Boo...cientEgypt.pdf
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:07 PM   #33
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Default Reap what you sow

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Just look to its lasting influence on the world, its font of culture and knowledge, and its achievements before its fall. Rome didn't do too badly either, while it lasted, and the Pope is still reaping the benefits.
Yes the pope and co are reaping.

A lot of knowledge being hidden you mean.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88624


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Old 08-11-2009, 06:49 PM   #34
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Question tribes

The 12 Tribes of Israel Are The 12 Zodiac Signs

Hari Krishna, Horus, Osiris, Jesus Christ, and all the other so called crucified saviour are personifications of the the sun-regardless if they were real people or not. The name Jesus, Yeshua, Jehoshua, and Joshua are all variants from the Egyptian word, "Iu-Su", and they all mean "The Ever Coming One", referring to the rising and setting of the sun for which they all personify and represent-just like all the other so called crucified saviours down through history going back thousands of years before today's Jesus Christ. They are all personifications of the Sun, and the story of all their lives are an allegory of the passage of the Sun through the 12 constellations of the ZODIAC. None of these saviours were real men, or women who actualized or embodied Divine Consciousness. All the events in their lives were symbolic allegories of the events of the life of the Sun. And, early Christians first worshipped the Sun as a God, and called it their Lord until around the 6th century, until the Catholic priesthood changed it to, "Our Lord the God" in the east (this is were the Sun rises every day). And this is why all Christian holidays to this very day coincide with major solar events.

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/rel...iac-signs.html

The arrangement of the twelve tribes of Israel around the Tabernacle (Numbers 2) corresponded to the order of the Zodiac; and four of the tribes represented the middle signs of each quarter: Judah was the Lion, Reuben the Man, Ephraim the Bull, and Dan the Eagle. Thomas Mann in Joseph and His Brothers takes the Blessing of Jacob as attributing characteristics of a sign of the zodiac to each tribe. The faces of the cherubim, in both Ezekiel and Revelation, are the middle signs of the four quarters of the Zodiac: the Lion is Leo; the Bull is Taurus; the Man is Aquarius; and the Eagle is Scorpio.


Hellenistic astrology was a syncretism of Babylonian and Egyptian astrology, and it was in Ptolemaic Egypt where horoscopic astrology first appeared. The Dendera zodiac, a relief dating to ca. 50 BC, is the first known depiction of the classical zodiac of twelve signs.

Babylonia or Chaldea in the Hellenistic world came to be so identified with astrology that "Chaldean wisdom" became among Greeks and Romans the synonym of divination through the planets and stars.

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Old 08-11-2009, 07:15 PM   #35
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Then why does the entire world of Judaism, The Celtic Christian Church, the entire world of Islam and Hinduism all use the Lunar Calendar?
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:16 PM   #36
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Default Luna

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Then why does Judaism, The Celtic Christian Church, and Islam use the Lunar Calendar?
You tell me
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:20 PM   #37
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No. You find out, because you posted the Sun God theory, not me.

You do this all the time, expect it on a plate. Do some work!!!
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:23 PM   #38
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Default Leg work

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No. You find out, because you posted the Sun God theory, not me.


You do this all the time, expect it on a plate. Do some work!!!

I posted it to hear peoples opinions.

I do this all the time,on a plate

You are definitely being shilly or silly.

I could quite easily,I expect at least a link to back up your comments.

The Ancient Incas, Egyptians, Greeks, Druids and Hindus were all Sun worshippers.
To them the Sun was most powerful, but they greatly feared the eclipses of the Moon.

The earliest Egyptian calendar was based on the Moon's cycles. Later, however, it developed into a 365 day solar calendar around 4236 BC. when they began to notice the "Dog Star" Sirius rising next to the Sun every 365 days, marking the time when the Nile river also began its annual flood tide.

http://www.moonlightsys.com/themoon/ancient2.html


The Mesopotamian calendar was primarily lunar, and the months began with the first sighting of the young, waxing crescent moon just after sunset on the western horizon.

http://www.astronomy.pomona.edu/arch.../calendar.html

My goodness what with all the mis information and dis information,I go with my intuition these days.

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Old 08-11-2009, 07:42 PM   #39
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I think that you need to take another look at meaning of "God" to the major religions, and certainly to the Stone Religion of the Druids.

Quote:
... it was not until the second half of the 20th Century that astro-archaeology became a major science in its own right. Gerald Hawkins, an American astronomer, published the results of an intense study of Stonehenge's astronomical alignments in Nature in 1963.

In the article he described how he had used a computer to prove that alignments between Stonehenge and 12 major solar and lunar events was extremely unlikely to have been a coincidence (Castleden, 1993).

His book, Stonehenge Decoded, containing the fully developed theory, appeared in Britain in 1966. He described how he had found astronomical alignments among 165 points of Stonehenge associated purely with the Sun and the Moon, and not with any stars or the five naked-eye planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn). He discovered that lunar eclipses could be predicted through a system of moving stones around the circle of Aubrey Holes. (SOURCE: Astro-Archaeology at Stonehenge by A.S. Tiverton)
Stonehenge is, in fact, not a solar site, and the God of the Druids, and their pre-Davidic ancestors was certainly not a solar God.
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Old 08-11-2009, 08:46 PM   #40
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Default Newgrange

1000 years before Stonehenge you had Newgrange however, precisely aligned with the winter solstice. Is a celtic cross not a representation of the zodiac?

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