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Old 24-03-2018, 12:31 PM   #221
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I would go some ways to agree with you, however it seems to me that you and others are politicising the subject as part of a political movement every bit as much as the marxist feminists are. And whilst individuals within a movement can be on the right track, the movement itself becomes a machine out of the control of any individual..
there absolutely ARE competing visions for society out there yes

you spoke about my 'politics' earlier in the thread but i don't think you really understand what my politics are

I'd say the closest estimation are the ideas that fall under that collective title of 'solidarity economy' which are LIBERTARIAN LEFT ideas mainly

But they share some ground with the LIBERTARIAN RIGHT where people are also wary of government and centralised power and where people want to have the wiggle room to be themselves, express themselves and shine in their individual endeavours

However at the moment what we ACTUALLY have is an elite trying to bully, cajole, trick and coerce us into a new technocratic society so that is the immediate problem we face and as such should imo get most of our attention because it is an EMERGENCY
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:38 PM   #222
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Well, one has to ask "liberation" from what?

My mum did both. But yes she contracted out the "heavy" work, and always to men. There weren't many women around in those days that did that sort of thing, but I expect she might not have wanted the complication of other women in competition with her authority in those matters anyway.
so if a woman is coming to someone like jordan and saying they are unhappy then i guess they are seeking liberation from their state of unhappiness

Under the current system and its current culture they are under pressure to succeed as career women AND as mums AND also present a certain public persona on social media of success with lots of photos of them and their friends and partner enjoying foreign holidays and a raft of social engagements in which they are always beaming back at the camera with joy as they press the button on their selfie stick

So....how do you liberate within that system?

You have to let go of something

I am offering an even bigger solution though. I'm asking the whole of society to let go so that we can build something that doesn't require us all to hang on so tight

But if you want to liberate in this current system you have to either cut back on the work, or cut back on the family, or cut back on the social persona you are trying to present to the world or cut back on your outgoings which means things like downsizing which then affects your perceived status in society and the social persona you are trying to present to the world

If you are someone like me then you are liberated from all that because you don't give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks

But MOST professional people DO care A LOT about what other people think and are caught in the trap of keeping up with the joneses and social media has made everyone painfully aware of what others are upto and that perception of what others are upto is not always an accurate one either as what people see are crafted and framed snapshots of peoples lives which they then assume to be perfect

Its all bullshit

David speaks about this and how the ridicule he suffered after the notorious terry wogan interview set him free because he became liberated from the fear of worrying what other people thought about him. This allowed him to be himself

And that is what the technocrats 'social credit' system is about destroying because it wants to make people police themselves and each other 24/7 which is not liberation; it is SLAVERY
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:42 PM   #223
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there absolutely ARE competing visions for society out there yes

you spoke about my 'politics' earlier in the thread but i don't think you really understand what my politics are

I'd say the closest estimation are the ideas that fall under that collective title of 'solidarity economy' which are LIBERTARIAN LEFT ideas mainly

But they share some ground with the LIBERTARIAN RIGHT where people are also wary of government and centralised power and where people want to have the wiggle room to be themselves, express themselves and shine in their individual endeavours

However at the moment what we ACTUALLY have is an elite trying to bully, cajole, trick and coerce us into a new technocratic society so that is the immediate problem we face and as such should imo get most of our attention because it is an EMERGENCY
It doesn't matter how good your ideas are, if you play divisive games you alienate half the populace that would perhaps together bring about change to the pyramidal structure. And I've been on the end of that divisive stuff enough to know that that is in part what you are doing. How does attempting to label me a leftie when I have no allegiance to either left or right wing competing factions help defeat the elites?
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:47 PM   #224
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so if a woman is coming to someone like jordan and saying they are unhappy then i guess they are seeking liberation from their state of unhappiness

Under the current system and its current culture they are under pressure to succeed as career women AND as mums AND also present a certain public persona on social media of success with lots of photos of them and their friends and partner enjoying foreign holidays and a raft of social engagements in which they are always beaming back at the camera with joy as they press the button on their selfie stick

So....how do you liberate within that system?

You have to let go of something

I am offering an even bigger solution though. I'm asking the whole of society to let go so that we can build something that doesn't require us all to hang on so tight

But if you want to liberate in this current system you have to either cut back on the work, or cut back on the family, or cut back on the social persona you are trying to present to the world or cut back on your outgoings which means things like downsizing which then affect6s your status in society and the social persona you are trying to present to the world

If you are someone like me then you are liberated from all that because you don't give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks

But MOST professional people DO care A LOT about what other people think and are caught in the trap of keeping up with the joneses and social media has made everyone painfully aware of what others are upto and that perception of what others are upto is not always an accurate one either as what people see are crafted and framed snapshots of peoples lives which they then assume to be perfect

Its all bullshit

David speaks about this and how the ridicule he suffered after the notorious terry wogan interview set him free because he became liberated from the fear of worrying what other people thought about him. This allowed him to be himself

And that is what the technocrats 'social credit' system is about destroying because it wants to make people police themselves and each other 24/7 which is not liberation; it is SLAVERY
This forum is rife with social creditation, mostly coming from the right. All one has to do is call someone a leftie and it's implied that they are an evil system upholder, and similar bullshit. Indeed, you are very much a part of that social credit scheme.
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:54 PM   #225
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It doesn't matter how good your ideas are, if you play divisive games you alienate half the populace that would perhaps together bring about change to the pyramidal structure. And I've been on the end of that divisive stuff enough to know that that is in part what you are doing. How does attempting to label me a leftie when I have no allegiance to either left or right wing competing factions help defeat the elites?
i'm not the one playing divisive games

i'm the one pointing out to people how what they are doing is divisive

they just don't like having this pointed out
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:56 PM   #226
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This forum is rife with social creditation, mostly coming from the right. All one has to do is call someone a leftie and it's implied that they are an evil system upholder, and similar bullshit. Indeed, you are very much a part of that social credit scheme.
no what i have done is explain to people that what is presented as 'the left' in the corporate media is really AUTHORITARIAN and that if you support its various planks you are supporting a push towards an authoritarian society

and that is true

some people just don't like having this pointed out because they have an identarian agenda that drives their views
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:56 PM   #227
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i'm not the one playing divisive games

i'm the one pointing out to people how what they are doing is divisive

they just don't like having this pointed out
Well, the energetic forces in this reality work upon all sides of the political spectrum, so what one side thinks the other side is doing they are likely to be doing exactly the same thing themselves but are so entrenched in the divide to see it.
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Old 24-03-2018, 12:58 PM   #228
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no what i have done is explain to people that what is presented as 'the left' in the corporate media is really AUTHORITARIAN and that if you support its various planks you are supporting a push towards an authoritarian society

and that is true

some people just don't like having this pointed out because they have an identarian agenda that drives their views
I'm not in the corporate media.
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Old 24-03-2018, 01:00 PM   #229
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I'm not in the corporate media.
no but the corporate media and the education system are shaping most peoples perceptions and what they present as 'the left' is the progressive agenda which is being pushed down on society FROM ABOVE through the education system and corporate media and government legislation

so what i'm saying is 'folks that is not the real left; it is a fake left controlled by the oligarchs. if you want a real left then you need to look into the things that will actually empower the workers not the oligarchs'
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Old 24-03-2018, 01:03 PM   #230
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Well, the energetic forces in this reality work upon all sides of the political spectrum, so what one side thinks the other side is doing they are likely to be doing exactly the same thing themselves but are so entrenched in the divide to see it.
if some people start a movement called 'marxist feminism' and its express intent is to create a divide between men and women and then i point out what they are doing then which side is the divisive one?

Is it the side doing the dividing or is it the side pointing out what they are doing?
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Old 24-03-2018, 01:10 PM   #231
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if some people start a movement called 'marxist feminism' and its express intent is to create a divide between men and women and then i point out what they are doing then which side is the divisive one?

Is it the side doing the dividing or is it the side pointing out what they are doing?
What do you suppose the marxist feminist rebuttal would be?

.

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Old 24-03-2018, 01:18 PM   #232
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What do you suppose the marxist feminist rebuttal would be?.
whatever their rothschild cabal handlers wanted it to be

for their technocracy to triumph they must replace the family with the state

so what they really want is to drive a wedge between men and women so their counter argument would have to feed that agenda
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Old 24-03-2018, 01:58 PM   #233
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whatever their rothschild cabal handlers wanted it to be

for their technocracy to triumph they must replace the family with the state

so what they really want is to drive a wedge between men and women so their counter argument would have to feed that agenda
Well they might say that that was what your Rothschild handlers want you to say, thus driving a wedge between men and women, 'cos there are a lot of women that support feminism and consider their fight to be against the patriarchy of the system, whether Rothschild contrived or otherwise.

Yawn, this is all so boring. That's what I say.
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Old 24-03-2018, 02:40 PM   #234
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is your mum a high earning lawyer working 80 hours a day and managing kids at the same time?

because that's the example peterson gave of people in HIGH STRESS jobs coming to him saying they were not happy due to the multiple demands of modern life
Ha ha ha ha high paying lawyers men and women - pay someone to look after their kids and do their housework.

Both my grandparents husbands died young and they brought up 10 kids each alone. (Not including the miscarriages) I'm sure that's not as stressful as paperwork though

And they wanted more than just that - they were clever women with a good education - and also the first to use the pill (even if one of them thought you had to stick it somewhere - well it had no instructions ).

Society needs a balance and this is not it either....

The world is changing...and women do not have to have 10 or so kids at a time anymore.
That is good for the planet and for society.

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Old 24-03-2018, 03:01 PM   #235
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that's not actually true

sometimes if you are not honest with people you ENABLE them towards disaster

So for example those young folks who go on X Factor and think they can sing when they can't. They go up on that stage and make a total prat of themselves in front of millions of people because the people close to them weren't honest with them and instead ENABLED them in their delusion. Thye needed some tough love. They needed someone they trusted to say ''i love you and i think you have all these amazing talents such as x, y and z but i don't think singing is one of them. I don't think you should enter X factor''

The world doesn't need delusion, the world needs to align with truth

What Jordan is saying is that women believe they can have a high powered career where they work 80 hour weeks AND be a mum AND have a social life AND be happy and what he's saying is many women are coming to him saying that they are trying that and failing to achieve it all

Why?

arguably it is not possible to do that because there are simply not enough hours in the day; so people need to think about what they want to prioritise in life. That's all he is saying
If your kid wants to be a singer then you encourage them by taking them to singing lessons (or teaching them yourself )
you help them not get stage fright by giving them drama lessons or encouraging them to go onto the stage.
If you put enough hours into singing or anything you will get good at it.

Those bad singers do not sing a lot I can guarantee you.
And if they can't sing they may be able to rap - or write music - you just keep encouraging them in what they want to do - they live their dreams not yours. If they are still no good at it they are not wanting it enough.

Most of those bad singers have pushy parents that are living their dreams through their kids. They either get good and are unhappy or they are bad and the parents set them up for failure.

As for X factor - unless you are ordinary looking or flawed - and need a makeover and have a sad story they won't let you win - and you sign a contract that stops you singing for anyone else for a few years if you lose.
There are many horror stories about it - youtube is probably a better platform for real talent.

That's not the same as telling your kid they can't do something before they even try or because of their gender... which is what you are advocating.

I bet if you went into the future and saw your daughter was famous and rich and admired for doing a job that used to be a man's field of experience you wouldn't go back in time and tell her she can't do it she's a girl - you'd encourage her. Think about that.

As for either being a childless workaholic woman or a stay at home mother -
neither of those things have brought women happiness.

Mostly because if you stay at home you get called a lot of names.

Even worse - your husband dies or you divorce through no fault of yours and become a single mother and then society calls you a scrounger.

What we need is moderation in everything - we moderated how many kids we have
now we need to moderate the working hours and school hours and have mothers and fathers
work as a team to bring children up and support those who are single parents.
That is what society needs.
Then we won't need high earning lawyers and psychologists ...

He's always calling women (especially feminists) neurotic... so what makes him cry?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsQeIvmdkCw

Young boys. So by his own lecture he should ask himself what in his past makes him cry when he thinks of young boys?
In other words he is crying for himself not others....and he lets you know who he is...but you deny it...
Narcissists tell you what they are!!!!! Wake up!

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Old 24-03-2018, 03:22 PM   #236
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If your kid wants to be a singer then you encourage them by taking them to singing lessons (or teaching them yourself )
you help them not get stage fright by giving them drama lessons or encouraging them to go onto the stage.
If you put enough hours into singing or anything you will get good at it.

Those bad singers do not sing a lot I can guarantee you.
And if they can't sing they may be able to rap - or write music - you just keep encouraging them in what they want to do - they live their dreams not yours. If they are still no good at it they are not wanting it enough.

Most of those bad singers have pushy parents that are living their dreams through their kids. They either get good and are unhappy or they are bad and the parents set them up for failure.

As for X factor - unless you are ordinary looking or flawed - and need a makeover and have a sad story they won't let you win - and you sign a contract that stops you singing for anyone else for a few years if you lose.
There are many horror stories about it - youtube is probably a better platform for real talent.

That's not the same as telling your kid they can't do something before they even try ... which is what you are advocating.
Whilst I'd mostly agree with you, there are some rare individuals that have natural musical talent above and beyond what is possible for others. Seemingly a gift from the gods. That's not to say that they don't have to work hard to realise their full potential, and do so often harder than most. And I know some singers that still sing out of tune after 40 years of doing so, Lol.
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Old 24-03-2018, 03:35 PM   #237
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Whilst I'd mostly agree with you, there are some rare individuals that have natural musical talent above and beyond what is possible for others. Seemingly a gift from the gods. That's not to say that they don't have to work hard to realise their full potential, and do so often harder than most. And I know some singers that still sing out of tune after 40 years of doing so, Lol.
There is no doubt that singers sound better than others (some are sopranos for example ) but they also put the hours in. And there are some off key awful sounding famous singers out there so that didn't stop them making it ...

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Old 24-03-2018, 03:53 PM   #238
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There is no doubt that singers sound better than others (some are sopranos for example ) but they also put the hours in. And there are some off key awful sounding famous singers out there so that didn't stop them making it ...
Yeah, the record industry mostly doesn't care if you are good or bad, it only cares if you are marketable, which can include both good & bad.

Anyways, back to Peterson. It's interesting that you say he is or has been on anti-depressants. For someone advocating Jungian shadow work, that's tantamount to avoidance, for it is in depression and the suchlike that we really come face to face with the darkness and are forced to process it.

.

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Old 24-03-2018, 04:27 PM   #239
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Haha, you can't find any lefties that I'm supposedly defending.

So, who is the troll? Who is making up lies about other posters in order to push a political bias? That's an evil in my estimation.

.
Clearly I meant you defend left wing values you idiot

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Old 24-03-2018, 04:48 PM   #240
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Well they might say that that was what your Rothschild handlers want you to say, thus driving a wedge between men and women, 'cos there are a lot of women that support feminism and consider their fight to be against the patriarchy of the system, whether Rothschild contrived or otherwise.

Yawn, this is all so boring. That's what I say.
can you prove that the rothschilds support decentralised options?

no you can't because they don't

so why twist it around?
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