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Old 05-02-2016, 06:08 PM   #21
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I understand you wanting to do something, but my personal view is, it's practically impossible to enter the arena of politics and not become exactly like the thing you wish to remove or reform. History tells me this, and in my own lifetime observing how it works has shown me this.

It's like saying 'we need better teachers' but the curriculum is going to be the same. It's their arena, they define it. The world does require people who are going to help to improve it but politics just keeps the world on a treadmill - doing lots of running but staying still (or going backward).
As soon as anybody takes control of a country they need to ensure that things run a certain way, which means rules and laws, taxes etc. The details may differ but the general effect is the same. Some people lose out, some win.

This is why politicians are all the same

The idea of a utopia where everybody is free and happy is not very practical. Just imagine that such a party gained control, it would only need some bad people to totally ruin it for a lot of people and then we would be back to square one. A world governed by wisdom and mutual respect sounds awesome but I cant see it happening for a very long time
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:27 PM   #22
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It would be interesting to see what David would say about such a new party. As an enlightened guy he might offer some real insights into how to run a country without political corruption and manipulation
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:35 PM   #23
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There's a lot of talk on the DIF and in these sort of websites, but little action. I don't see how the main political parties are going to be overthrown if there is no new significant political force that we all can get behind and vote for. We also need a new voting system that allows us to vote more frequently and to vote for policies not politicians. Some say that voting is futile; if so, why did the common man have to wait 1000s of years to get the vote? Because the ruling elite know it is an important device for us to register our opinions. Just as we are on the verge of taking our weak democracy to greater strength, we now have lots of New Agers/Conspiracy theorists rejecting voting and politics. Meditation is not going to remove David Cameron, but voting for a new popular political movement can.

I have started a group forum called 'A new cooperative party'
In short no political movement can change anything when attached to the current one party political system.
A system where people canvas for votes seeking election to political office serves only the establishment and those who gain office if there is no contract between elector and elected. Contract politics with genuine accountability is the only way forward I feel.
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:41 PM   #24
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As soon as anybody takes control of a country they need to ensure that things run a certain way, which means rules and laws, taxes etc. The details may differ but the general effect is the same. Some people lose out, some win.

This is why politicians are all the same

The idea of a utopia where everybody is free and happy is not very practical. Just imagine that such a party gained control, it would only need some bad people to totally ruin it for a lot of people and then we would be back to square one. A world governed by wisdom and mutual respect sounds awesome but I cant see it happening for a very long time
Exactly. With very little exception, each country gets a variation of the same theme. I wonder if human life ever was as perfect and idyllic as many people say? Perhaps this is a very rose-tinted view.

To 'progress' in politics means having to play by the established rules. So, it doesn't matter how great your intentions are, once you're in there you become part of the same system.
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Old 05-02-2016, 06:47 PM   #25
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Exactly. With very little exception, each country gets a variation of the same theme. I wonder if human life ever was as perfect and idyllic as many people say? Perhaps this is a very rose-tinted view.

To 'progress' in politics means having to play by the established rules. So, it doesn't matter how great your intentions are, once you're in there you become part of the same system.
Some people dream of a perfect world but maybe they do that because they desire to avoid lifes hardships and difficulties. Unless every single person was singing to the same tune it just wouldn't work and any person prepared to use violence would easily control people, which would then require some sort of reaction to contain them, etc.

The only people who can see life in such an idyllic way are those who are protected from its horrors and darkness, namely the rich and powerful who can hide behind high walls and personal security

In this world it would only take a lack of food or water to turn people against each other and no amount of positive thinking would stop that
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:05 PM   #26
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Some people dream of a perfect world but maybe they do that because they desire to avoid lifes hardships and difficulties. Unless every single person was singing to the same tune it just wouldn't work and any person prepared to use violence would easily control people, which would then require some sort of reaction to contain them, etc.

The only people who can see life in such an idyllic way are those who are protected from its horrors and darkness, namely the rich and powerful who can hide behind high walls and personal security

In this world it would only take a lack of food or water to turn people against each other and no amount of positive thinking would stop that
There's just only so much any institution can achieve on a mass level, be it politics, education etc. Their basic paradigm makes them a big part of the problem. The decent people working in those fields, and I'm sure they exist, can't really exert a great difference.

I don't believe 'perfection' is the absence of challenge or adversity, because it (adversity) always comes in some shape or form. It's how we deal with it that really determines our quality of life.

To me, the people that make life better aren't the politicians or people of that ilk. I think politics is a secular religion that keeps people waiting on the messiah that doesn't exist.

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Old 05-02-2016, 07:09 PM   #27
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I agree, people with lots of money potentially at least can have a better quality of life. Less worry about basic paying the bills and that kind of thing. The money itself doesn't make you happy, but neither does poverty!
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:15 PM   #28
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It would be interesting to see what David would say about such a new party. As an enlightened guy he might offer some real insights into how to run a country without political corruption and manipulation
I've read about his brief sojourn with the Greens. He said that they were pretty much the same thing but presented with a new spin. What he'd say now, who knows? Though given that the words 'politics' and 'corruption' are synonymous, I'd be surprised if he has any faith in that world.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:52 PM   #29
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It would be interesting to see what David would say about such a new party. As an enlightened guy he might offer some real insights into how to run a country without political corruption and manipulation
DI has talked recently on one of his video casts about contract politics. Without that there no recourse for voters regardless of party political parties within the current system in my opinion.

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Old 05-02-2016, 08:48 PM   #30
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DI has talked recently on one of his video casts about contract politics. Without that there no recourse for voters regardless of party political parties within the current system in my opinion.
I would be interested in the detail, such as preventing crime, health care, all the basic stuff that makes a country work. There are many things that would fall apart if they relied on good will.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:45 PM   #31
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It would take a very long time, maybe years, from my experience of Co-Op meetings (whose basic principles are, on paper, very sound) you will inevitably get faction fighting within the group depending on why they're really there at the table in the first place and what baggage they wish to unpack upon it before you arrived at any consensus. For a start off, I'm still not convinced about the Reptile thing, would that therefore disallow me from the meetings ? You could of course, invite one along as a guest speaker (that would be a meeting hall filler). They'd certainly be very interesting meetings.

True story this : in the spirit of true equality whilst the Co-Op was in sinking ship crisis and near death throes last year, it was actually put to the vote in a regional meeting, after considerable debate, as to whether or not members should pay for the biscuits provided during the coffee break...whether to procure Co-Op biscuits and beverages or not, even though Morrisons and Aldi were cheaper, yet not necessarily Fairtrade. One member raising objections that only the Co-Op made those Jammie Dodgers with the cream in them. All this duly proposed, seconded, minuted..etcetera etcetera.......

Also, even though the group had considerable funds, out of principle they would not place them into a higher interest account (of which there were many) at any bank other than the Co-Op itself. Co-Op folk incidentally aren't all necessarily Labour supporters but come from across the entire political spectrum (including apolitical) as well as belief systems (or none), all ages, all classes. Which is where perhaps elements from it could be incorporated into this proposed "New Party" . The Co-Op by definition and legislation IS its own recognised political party in UK, yet has traditionally placed its powers and funding upwards into Labour. Ahem.

With ( for want of a better term) an Icke-orientated party, how on Earth would you fund such a group, given the majority on here are fully aware of all the trappings of all Rothschild Zionist banking ? Who does David Icke bank with ? Of course it's none of my business, but it must be a quandary for him.

(I'll give them their due though, Co-Op provided some excellent guest speakers and outings to places of significance and interest).

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Old 21-02-2016, 02:51 AM   #32
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Actually everyone is left out that is not chosen. Governments are just a seat for corruption. They pick who will succeed. See the statement in the US document, put in charge of handling the money to the people deemed capable. Then look at the US banking system. Both sides are scared to death of an audit. Those deemed most are probably what the government considers easily controlled. Look at all the industry missing from the nation.

Even the criminals that you worry about have a form of government. This is usually a monarchy. The only thing that will replace governments is a system of cooperation that cannot be corrupted. The government has proven this to be impossible as they have infiltrated every organization. Through bribes and propaganda and threats they have made it impossible to start a new political party that they do not control. Why didn't I take interest in the Tea Party? Because I knew what was going to happen, and, it did.
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Old 21-02-2016, 08:46 AM   #33
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I would be interested in the detail, such as preventing crime, health care, all the basic stuff that makes a country work. There are many things that would fall apart if they relied on good will.
How do you mean Mark? Do you mean every little detail would need to be agreed between voter and politician and how would that be practical?
With a contract in place between the voting public and politicians I feel that this has the best chance of eliminating politics of promises not acted upon or delivered as packaged and sold pre elections.

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Old 26-02-2016, 01:55 AM   #34
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All political movements start out good before being usurped by evil doers.
It's the Animal Farm principle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGzRf0Ow1qU

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Old 21-03-2016, 01:02 PM   #35
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All political movements start out good before being usurped by evil doers.
It's the Animal Farm principle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGzRf0Ow1qU
The political sphere is so fundamentally flawed, even the most sincere people who wish to make a difference end up being no different from what they initially fought against. If there are sincere ones in there, their views carry little weight against the insincere. I've never voted, as I don't believe the quality of my life depends upon this system. I think it's the faith we put in it generation after generation that makes it even worse.

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Old 21-03-2016, 01:56 PM   #36
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How can any party hope to overturn the system? Let's assume a party is created, it gets the votes, and then what?
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Old 22-03-2016, 11:28 AM   #37
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How can any party hope to overturn the system? Let's assume a party is created, it gets the votes, and then what?
It's the same paradigm. They define the rules of engagement. The way that the UK government still decided to invade Iraq despite all the opposition ought to have let people know they'll do what they want, push come to shove. All the parties.
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Old 22-03-2016, 12:13 PM   #38
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It's the same paradigm. They define the rules of engagement. The way that the UK government still decided to invade Iraq despite all the opposition ought to have let people know they'll do what they want, push come to shove. All the parties.
Something is innately wrong with placing this much power in the hands of a few. I don't think that people seem to understand just how much power a government has??

WHY on earth would I want to be ruled?

WHY would I need some cunts a million miles away (slight exaggeration, we don't have a million miles) to decide anything for me? WTF?

People are voting for centralised power, but they're upset about the EU. I give up.


National centralised power is rather undemocratic. Just because people elected some twat doesn't equate to democracy, contrary to what we are told from birth. FFS! I want a say in all decisions, not just which twat will take power and ignore me for the duration of their term.

No I don't want to be in government.....I don't want centralised power.
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