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Old 19-04-2010, 08:49 AM   #41
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And what's the big one?
Again in all my mixed up beliefs I think it might be the 2012 event thing .

I am never able to make up my mind about this 2012 , but situations like volcanic eruptions , earthquakes , Tsunamis , are indeed escualting .

I am not trying to say thet Haarp does not exist , I am more than sure it does .

But to be able to focus all that energy into one eruption or earthquake , with out affecting the whole world does seem out of our ability at the moment .

I do think that man can induce eruptions man made , I do think man can make earthquakes , but the intensity and precision needed to keep it local , is what makes me think we do not yet have that ability with out making it muck the world entirely .

In time we might be able to , it is all so ------------ hard to take in at the end of the day , not because it is impossible , but because there is just so much placed upon man makin these things happen .

surely it takes our focus away from the events that will esculate up to 2012 ?
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Old 19-04-2010, 08:50 AM   #42
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Yes there are enough resources to feed, clothe and house every person on the planet. But living standards would not be what we've grown accustiomed to in the west and what people in the developing world aspire to.

There'd be no multiple TVs, Mobile Phones, PCs and cars per household. The worlds population would have to become vegetarian or cut meat consumption down by 90-95%. And every family would have to limit themselves to one child.

Pretty much anything that consumes energy and resources but isn't essential for day to day existance would have to be done away with. Don't get me wrong, by doing this everyone would have a house that's comfortable to live in but humanity would have to give up many of it's luxuries and egoistic pursuits. And sadly i'm not sure that when push comes to shove people would sacrifice all this for a mundane existance over what we have now.
We are basically there now bar the odd chocolate bar , yet we live very comfortably indeed, the two of us on around 30-35 quid a week of the highest quality home made food, doing it and wearing the T shirt, its not that hard to do you know, egoistic purists not really, common scensiblists yes.
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Old 19-04-2010, 08:51 AM   #43
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Possibly another nail in the coffin for the last vesibules of big business, try to keep the planes out of the skies on purpous to futher the British plight towards a triple T society of bankruptcies, man taking advantage of mother natures ways once again.
yes now thats a good answer because TPTB are looking for more reasons to take more money from tax payers .

this is the perfect excuse .

IE they needed to bail out the bloody airports and air lines now ah ?

typical !
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Old 19-04-2010, 08:53 AM   #44
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We are basically there now bar the odd chocolate bar , yet we live very comfortably indeed, the two of us on around 30-35 quid a week of the highest quality home made food, doing it and wearing the T shirt, its not that hard to do you know, egoistic purists not really, common scensiblists yes.
That's good but unfortunately for every person like you there are 10,000 to a 100,000 people that aren't and have no intention of switching to a less materialistic life.

Last edited by spiraltrance; 19-04-2010 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 19-04-2010, 08:56 AM   #45
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Again in all my mixed up beliefs I think it might be the 2012 event thing .

I am never able to make up my mind about this 2012 , but situations like volcanic eruptions , earthquakes , Tsunamis , are indeed escualting .

I am not trying to say thet Haarp does not exist , I am more than sure it does .

But to be able to focus all that energy into one eruption or earthquake , with out affecting the whole world does seem out of our ability at the moment .

I do think that man can induce eruptions man made , I do think man can make earthquakes , but the intensity and precision needed to keep it local , is what makes me think we do not yet have that ability with out making it muck the world entirely .

In time we might be able to , it is all so ------------ hard to take in at the end of the day , not because it is impossible , but because there is just so much placed upon man makin these things happen .

surely it takes our focus away from the events that will esculate up to 2012 ?
To be honest, I think it's the opposite. I think everyone will be keeping 2012 in mind with all these 'events' happening, possibly shitting their pants. Which is what the TPTB want. If there is a big cataclysm. It's going to be man made, a big illusion.

I think Rik Clay was definitely on to something huge with 2012 and he was silenced because of it. There's more to it than the doom and gloom scenario. They're pushing that outcome/idea out there for a reason
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Old 19-04-2010, 08:57 AM   #46
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Yes there are enough resources to feed, clothe and house every person on the planet. But living standards would not be what we've grown accustiomed to in the west and what people in the developing world aspire to.

There'd be no multiple TVs, Mobile Phones, PCs and cars per household. The worlds population would have to become vegetarian or cut meat consumption down by 90-95%. And every family would have to limit themselves to one child.

Pretty much anything that consumes energy and resources but isn't essential for day to day existance would have to be done away with. Don't get me wrong, by doing this everyone would have a house that's comfortable to live in but humanity would have to give up many of it's luxuries and egoistic pursuits. And sadly i'm not sure that when push comes to shove people would choose a more mundane existance over what we have now.
Living standards wouldn't be what we've grown accustomed to.

They could be much, much better!

Modern society is wasteful in the extreme and very often leads to a lower, rather than higher quality of life.

And we don't have to live without all technology and conveniences. Houses could be built better.

We may have to sacrifice our golf courses for farm land. Mmmm Land reclamation by the people of local golf courses....

Holiday at home or at least closer to home. No more mass air travel! Mmmm.

Dismantle bogus health services built for profit.

No more western nations consuming water in the third world to produce luxury crops while the locals thirst or suffer malnutrition.

No need for "wars for oil". Because we won't need it. Alternatives exist and there are oodles of oil out there.

Your comments about meat consumption and children are bogus. In a more natural farming environment, animals are a must! But animals living close by and not on the other side of the world. Less meat, yes, but no meat?

The one child family concept is unnecessary and simply a totalitarian scare tactic. Population is falling in many countries. Put an end to mass immigration and wait a few decades then the population will plummet across the industrialized world.

If people didn't have all the plastic shite and techno knick-knacks do you think they would miss them?

I don't.

An economy doesn't need to be based on shite.

It can be based on quality.

Quality. Quality. Quality. The three Q's. Or 4 if you like!
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:06 AM   #47
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Living standards wouldn't be what we've grown accustomed to.

They could be much, much better

Modern society is wasteful in the extreme and very often leads to a lower, rather than higher quality of life.

And we don't have to live without all technology and conveniences. Houses could be built better.

We may have to sacrifice our golf courses for farm land. Mmmm Land reclamation by the people of local golf courses....

Holiday at home or at least closer to home. No more mass air travel! Mmmm.

Dismantle bogus health services built for profit.

No more western nations consuming water in the third world to produce luxury crops while the locals thirst or suffer malnutrition.

No need for "wars for oil". Because we won't need it. Alternatives exist and there are oodles of oil out there.

Your comments about meat consumption and children are bogus. In a more natural farming environment, animals are a must! But animals living close by and not on the other side of the world. Less meat, yes, but no meat?

The one child family concept is unnecessary and simply a totalitarian scare tactic. Population is falling in many countries. Put an end to mass immigration and wait a few decades then the population will plummet across the industrialized world.

If people didn't have all the plastic shite and techno knick-knacks do you think they would miss them?

I don't.

An economy doesn't need to be based on shite.

It can be based on quality.

Quality. Quality. Quality. The three Q's. Or 4 if you like!
I agree with most of what you'r saying. Living standards would be better if you've overcome your material desires to do the consumer lifestyle, if you haven't though it probably won't be better hence why people won't change there ways.

And the worlds population is not falling it's increasing. It's decreasing in the west but drasticly increasing in the 3rd wolrd. Regardless of what multi-national corporations may be doing to the third world it's not good to have the mindest of breeding just for the sake of breeding especialy when you can't even feed yourself let alone the 5+ children you'll be bringing in the world.

The one child policy isn't a scare tactic, I think it's the most fair policy if you want an equal distribution of resources.

Last edited by spiraltrance; 19-04-2010 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:18 AM   #48
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money is going to eurostar at the moment
are they in on it?
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:21 AM   #49
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I agree with most of what you'r saying. Living standards would be better if you've overcome your material desires to do the consumer lifestyle, if you haven't though it probably won't be better hence why people won't change there ways.

The worlds population is not falling it's increasing. It's decreasing in the west but drasticly increasing in the 3rd wolrd. Regardless of what multi-national corporations may be doing to the third world it's not good to have the mindest of breeding just for the sake of breeding especialy when you can't even feed yourself let alone the 5+ children you'll be bringing in the world.

The one child policy isn't a scare tactic, I think it's the most fair policy if you want an equal distribution of resources.
My argument is that most people just buy and consume crap because it is there. Remove the crap and they won''t even notice it's gone after a while. And most of them would be better off without it.

No more Macdonalds! Mmmmmm.

The world's population is still increasing in total, but many countries are seeing declining birth rates. Many are already under the 2.2 figure which is quoted as necessary to maintain numbers. I'll dig out a post I made a few months ago that showed this very graphically. There are some surprises in there!

The one child policy is a scare tactic in my opinion, and it is also not necessary. There are many, many childless adults and that doesn't look likely to change. Brothers and sisters are very positive for any child and one child policies reek of state control.
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:24 AM   #50
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I agree with most of what you'r saying. Living standards would be better if you've overcome your material desires to do the consumer lifestyle, if you haven't though it probably won't be better hence why people won't change there ways.

The worlds population is not falling it's increasing. It's decreasing in the west but drasticly increasing in the 3rd wolrd. Regardless of what multi-national corporations may be doing to the third world it's not good to have the mindest of breeding just for the sake of breeding especialy when you can't even feed yourself let alone the 5+ children you'll be bringing in the world.

The one child policy isn't a scare tactic, I think it's the most fair policy if you want an equal distribution of resources.
Its a no air travel, car, TV, mobile and holiday day on our menu, but the food is great, two people doing the maximum with the minimum, quality not quantity is the order of our day, the nature around here is marvelous the birds are singing in the back yard and greet us every morning for free, what more is there, only kidding.

The consumeristical world is one of the very hardest to break free from, the hypnotics of it all are staggering, the only way one can start the ball rolling is to turn off that TV otherwise your still surrounded by the all round sound system that is hypnotising you.

Cooking, the misses got out a very old tattered cook book which I found somewhere years ago, since she opened it she has never looked back, its all about doing something with your hand to eye coordination, lay the first brick and its always there in the mnds eye to go back to, open the god dammed book.
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:30 AM   #51
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That's good but unfortunately for every person like you there are 10,000 to a 100,000 people that aren't and have no intention of switching to a less materialistic life.
Then we help those who want to help themselves, no excuses simply help them as we try to do, then there will be less who would hide behind false curtains which are permanently closed... And be rest assured there are now many thousands more people every day making those changes, looking for direction, this is why I spend so much time talking about it, when I'm silent I am doing it for ourselves.
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:31 AM   #52
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My argument is that most people just buy and consume crap because it is there. Remove the crap and they won''t even notice it's gone after a while. And most of them would be better off without it.
Don't be so sure. Human desire is human desire regardless of whether it can fulfilled or not. Though a new generation growing uop without being bombarded by slick marketing campiagns could change things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony1965
The world's population is still increasing in total, but many countries are seeing declining birth rates. Many are already under the 2.2 figure which is quoted as necessary to maintain numbers. I'll dig out a post I made a few months ago that showed this very graphically. There are some surprises in there!

The one child policy is a scare tactic in my opinion, and it is also not necessary. There are many, many childless adults and that doesn't look likely to change. Brothers and sisters are very positive for any child and one child policies reek of state control.
Well, in 1900 the worlds population was about 400 million, in 2010 it's 6.5 billion and by 2050 it'll be 9 billion. The worlds population is going up not down.

Last edited by spiraltrance; 19-04-2010 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:31 AM   #53
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Here is my post about declining birth rates across the world. There are some exceptions, but most countries, including many developing nations, have seen a decline. We just need to wait a few decades until the natural decline in total population occurs and learn to live in a world with declining populations.

Global fertility rates:

Down from 5.32 in 1961

to 2.51 in 2007

2.2 is the figure needed to maintain population, but that depends of course on the mortality rates in the individual nations


http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=246
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:33 AM   #54
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Living standards wouldn't be what we've grown accustomed to.

They could be much, much better!

Modern society is wasteful in the extreme and very often leads to a lower, rather than higher quality of life.

And we don't have to live without all technology and conveniences. Houses could be built better.

We may have to sacrifice our golf courses for farm land. Mmmm Land reclamation by the people of local golf courses....

Holiday at home or at least closer to home. No more mass air travel! Mmmm.

Dismantle bogus health services built for profit.

No more western nations consuming water in the third world to produce luxury crops while the locals thirst or suffer malnutrition.

No need for "wars for oil". Because we won't need it. Alternatives exist and there are oodles of oil out there.

Your comments about meat consumption and children are bogus. In a more natural farming environment, animals are a must! But animals living close by and not on the other side of the world. Less meat, yes, but no meat?

The one child family concept is unnecessary and simply a totalitarian scare tactic. Population is falling in many countries. Put an end to mass immigration and wait a few decades then the population will plummet across the industrialized world.

If people didn't have all the plastic shite and techno knick-knacks do you think they would miss them?

I don't.

An economy doesn't need to be based on shite.

It can be based on quality.

Quality. Quality. Quality. The three Q's. Or 4 if you like!
Spot on, especially the part about farming
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:34 AM   #55
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The consumeristical world is one of the very hardest to break free from, the hypnotics of it all are staggering, the only way one can start the ball rolling is to turn off that TV otherwise your still surrounded by the all round sound system that is hypnotising you.
100% agree. TV and advertising is the root cause of alot of the worlds ills.
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:35 AM   #56
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Don't be so sure. Human desire is human desire regardless of whether it can fulfilled or not.



Well, in 1900 the worlds population was about 400 million, in 2010 it's 6.5 billion and by 2050 it'll be 9 billion. The worlds population is going up not down and in an unhealthy way.
The world population wasn't 400 million in 1900. More like 1.7 billion. Here is an interesting graphic. Note the 3 UN population growth cases. The low figure would match the developments I described in my previous post.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-1800-2100.png
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:36 AM   #57
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anthiny
go to india or the philippinea and see hoiw mnay chilkdless adults there are
In the philippines thye thinks its their duty to breed like rabbits becuase thats
waht god told them to do
go forth and multiply
sad but true
same all over the third world
breed like rabits then wonder why they are poor
thats why i do not belive in any charity for third world
they reap what they sow
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:38 AM   #58
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Spot on, especially the part about farming
There are lots of good stories around. Yesterday, while I was busy in the garden, my wife took the the three kids to a project organized to clear up an area of woodland. They loved it. There were well over one hundred people there who had devoted an afternoon to tidying up the woods.

Just one of countless positive stories going on every day, every where.

People are often better then their reputation!
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:41 AM   #59
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anthiny
go to india or the philippinea and see hoiw mnay chilkdless adults there are
In the philippines thye thinks its their duty to breed like rabbits becuase thats
waht god told them to do
go forth and multiply
sad but true
same all over the third world
breed like rabits then wonder why they are poor
thats why i do not belive in any charity for third world
they reap what they sow
Please see this post.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=246

India 2.68 in 2007 down from 5.85 in 1960

Phillipines 3.11 in 2007 down from 6.96 in 1960.

The trend is down almost everywhere.
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Old 19-04-2010, 09:44 AM   #60
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anthiny
go to india or the philippinea and see hoiw mnay chilkdless adults there are
In the philippines thye thinks its their duty to breed like rabbits becuase thats
waht god told them to do
go forth and multiply
sad but true
same all over the third world
breed like rabits then wonder why they are poor
thats why i do not belive in any charity for third world
they reap what they sow


The charity rarely gets to anyone it's meant for anyway.
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