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Old 25-11-2008, 12:29 PM   #161
keystone
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As you have shown contrition and remorse in this matter
Well I admitted it was me, I explained the circumstances and pointed out that the conclusion drawn was incorrect. However, I do concede that in the cold light of day and in isolation it could have been seen that way as I recollect you did and I don't blame you actually. In the context of previous conversations by PM it didn't mean what it was interpreted to mean. Classic case of quoting out of context and thereby drawing the wrong conclusion.

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the commitee have decided you shall forfeit your 'Goat' priviledges for two months....
I am suitably humbled but as I have not yet been formally introduced to said animal I'm not sure what I'll be missing.

BTW I'm pursuing this in the open rather than by PM (as no doubt the Mods would prefer) because I will not have my private messages bandied about in this way. Sorry but there it is.
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Why was WTC 7 not mentioned in the 911 Commission Report?

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Old 25-11-2008, 12:37 PM   #162
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I should say that I did draw unfounded conclusions, and feel I was incorrect in so doing.

One of the difficulties with the written word is that it can so easily be taken out of context or mis-interpreted.
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Old 25-11-2008, 12:42 PM   #163
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I should say that I did draw unfounded conclusions, and feel I was incorrect in so doing.
No problem at all.

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One of the difficulties with the written word is that it can so easily be taken out of context or mis-interpreted.
Indeed.
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Old 25-11-2008, 01:49 PM   #164
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@ grandsecretary

You have accused me of fomenting a conspiracy on this site. This accusation is unfounded and is at worst a misrepresentation or at best a misunderstanding. I'd prefer it to be the latter obviously.

Notwithstanding the publication of a PM on the open forum I have explained that what you suggest was not what I meant. I concede that I may have been equivocal but a clarification question would have easily resolved it. That opportunity presented itself when you PMd your reply but you did not take it. Why? - only you know.

Three times now in the space of 18 hours I have asked:

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I trust you now realise the error in these remarks and will withdraw them.
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Will you withdraw your false accusation or not?
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Originally Posted by keystone View Post
Will you withdraw the accusation or not?
and you have ignored it or sidestepped it.

It's not difficult - it's a yes or no. Your answer will be illuminating one way or another but I think you do owe me an answer.
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Old 25-11-2008, 02:22 PM   #165
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@ grandsecretary

You have accused me of fomenting a conspiracy on this site. This accusation is unfounded and is at worst a misrepresentation or at best a misunderstanding. I'd prefer it to be the latter obviously.

Notwithstanding the publication of a PM on the open forum I have explained that what you suggest was not what I meant. I concede that I may have been equivocal but a clarification question would have easily resolved it. That opportunity presented itself when you PMd your reply but you did not take it. Why? - only you know.

Three times now in the space of 18 hours I have asked:







and you have ignored it or sidestepped it.

It's not difficult - it's a yes or no. Your answer will be illuminating one way or another but I think you do owe me an answer.
The wording was clear. You complained to me that you believed that we had an agreement between us that we would "defend freemasonry of any guise". That would be a conspiracy, and that is not acceptable. The fact that you do not recognise that your suggestion was wrong, or at least open to serious misinterpretation worries me.

I am afraid that the ball is firmly in your court.

Your badgering causes me to ask the following:

1) Do you defend the guise of The Ordo Templis Orientalis?
2) Do you defend the guise of The Grand Orient of France?
3) Do you defend the guise of The Order of Memphis Misraim?
4) Do you defend the guise of The Grand Orient of The United States of America?
5) Do you defend the guise of Le Droite Humaine?
6) Do you defend Italian P2?
7) Do you defend the following Freemason:- ?

a recent letter from him addressed to one of his white supremacist websites detailing what happens in his Lodge:

Quote:
Sir,

I have probably been an active racial nationalist for longer than you have. I have also been a Master Mason, and Scottish Rite Mason (32 degree) for many years.

If you are basing the existence of your organization on attacking the Masonic Brotherhood you are making an unfortunate mistake. Neither Pastor Richard Butler nor Louis Beam nor any other dedicated member of the White Nationalist Movement has ever condemned the Masons in my presence.

In fact Pastor Butler was, for many years, an active York Rite Mason. It is my understanding that the reason he left the Rite was because he did not want to taint it with controversy when he founded Aryan Nations.

I have read through your site, and I don't know where you are getting your information about Masonry, but it is wrong. If you want to find out about the Masons you should petition a Lodge, enter as an Apprentice, and advance through the Craft to Master. Of course, you must present yourself before a Lodge of your own free will. We cannot invite you to join. You must come to us in search of the Light. As we say, to be one, ask one.

We do not extend membership to atheists. We question jews about the kohl nidre, and they usually withdraw their petitions. We do accept all who believe in the Divine Architect of the Universe. I'm the Sr. Deacon of my Lodge, and I am an Odinic.

I doubt that you have any real interest in Masonry beyond having a group to condemn. Since we are a somewhat obscure organization we make an easy target. All of this has been tried in the past, and has had little effect. I really couldn't care less about your attacks except that you are, by your actions, wasting valuable time, and energy, and alienating racially aware white men.

14/88

Bob Holloway
That Lodge is recognised by the UGLE. Do you defend it, it is freemasonry "of any guise"? I will answer that one for you so that you do not accuse me of suggesting anything else. Of course you don't, and that is why we need to retain our independence.

That is my answer to you. I think that you were wrong to suggest or assume that an agreement to speak with one voice had been agreed when it hadn't.

What we actually agreed on an open thread, was that we might disagree on issues but that we would not consider ourselves to be enemies. At the first hurdle, you complained that I was "having a pop" at your Grand Lodge. That is where the confusion lies.

You defend the UGLE, because you cannot know what goes on everywhere within the disparate world of freemasonry. We cannot speak for "Freemasonry", with a single voice, which is the inevitable conclusion from the wording of your PM.

I would have thought that a general apology from you for sending me that PM might be a better option for you, rather than further personal attacks upon me. At least you have acknowledged that the wording was unfortunate, if nothing else, and we can move on.

Peter
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Old 25-11-2008, 02:27 PM   #166
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I'm not going to bother reading that lot comprehensively just at the moment because you are not addressing a simple issue. You castigated Banoyes for doing exactly the same thing. Me attack you? Ha Ha.

Others have clearly worked out what it meant and so stated on the open forum. If you hadn't published a PM we would not be in this situation. Ball in my court? No Sir! It's quite firmly in yours.

Please don't obfuscate this issue any more. You seem to pride yourself on straight answers to straight questions. Please go ahead. Either you are calling me a liar or you will admit you may have made a mistake and seriously overeacted.

Yes or no. Do you withdraw the accusation or not?

Deal with that and then I will answer your points in your post above.
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Why was WTC 7 not mentioned in the 911 Commission Report?

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Old 25-11-2008, 03:42 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by keystone View Post
I'm not going to bother reading that lot comprehensively just at the moment because you are not addressing a simple issue. You castigated Banoyes for doing exactly the same thing. Me attack you? Ha Ha.

Others have clearly worked out what it meant and so stated on the open forum. If you hadn't published a PM we would not be in this situation. Ball in my court? No Sir! It's quite firmly in yours.

Please don't obfuscate this issue any more. You seem to pride yourself on straight answers to straight questions. Please go ahead. Either you are calling me a liar or you will admit you may have made a mistake and seriously overeacted.

Yes or no. Do you withdraw the accusation or not?

Deal with that and then I will answer your points in your post above.
No.
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Old 25-11-2008, 04:14 PM   #168
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No.
Thank you. That was a bit like pulling teeth but you have confirmed exactly what I was starting to think.

Very masonic of you.
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Old 25-11-2008, 05:10 PM   #169
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Thank you. That was a bit like pulling teeth but you have confirmed exactly what I was starting to think.

Very masonic of you.
Mike. I did not use your name. You owned up. This is not fair.
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Old 25-11-2008, 05:40 PM   #170
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Mike. I did not use your name. You owned up. This is not fair.
I am not Mike - that's the second time!

What's not fair?

I have owned up to nothing. My intention was exactly the way another poster interpreted what I said and what another poster has since conceded that that is probably what I intended.

It is you Sir who have poured a 50 gallon oil drum's worth of petrol on this particular bonfire.

You accused me falsely and in the open without engaging your brain which I suspect is more intelligent than mine.

You expect me to lie down and accept that just to prove you correct.

Sorry I ain't made that way.
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Old 25-11-2008, 06:18 PM   #171
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I am not Mike - that's the second time!

What's not fair?

I have owned up to nothing. My intention was exactly the way another poster interpreted what I said and what another poster has since conceded that that is probably what I intended.

It is you Sir who have poured a 50 gallon oil drum's worth of petrol on this particular bonfire.

You accused me falsely and in the open without engaging your brain which I suspect is more intelligent than mine.

You expect me to lie down and accept that just to prove you correct.

Sorry I ain't made that way.
I'm sorry keystone my name mistake. My apologies.

Would it help if I said that there is a possiblity that I may have misunderstood your intentions, and then we can leave the words to speak for themselves, with your added assurances?

I don't expect anyone to lie down and say "uncle". If you did not mean what I suspected, then nobody is more pleased than I.

Peter
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Old 25-11-2008, 06:37 PM   #172
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I'm sorry keystone my name mistake. My apologies.
No problem.

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Would it help if I said that there is a possiblity that I may have misunderstood your intentions, and then we can leave the words to speak for themselves, with your added assurances?
Help? No much, much more than that - it would bury the issue completely. Thank you very much indeed.

Quote:
I don't expect anyone to lie down and say "uncle". If you did not mean what I suspected, then nobody is more pleased than I.
That is what I've been saying. I too am pleased that we can put this to bed in agreement, forget it and move foward positively.

Peace.
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Why was WTC 7 not mentioned in the 911 Commission Report?

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Last edited by keystone; 25-11-2008 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 25-11-2008, 07:54 PM   #173
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I'm sorry keystone my name mistake. My apologies.
No problem.

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Would it help if I said that there is a possiblity that I may have misunderstood your intentions, and then we can leave the words to speak for themselves, with your added assurances?
Help? No more than that - it would bury the issue completely. Thank you very much indeed.

Quote:
I don't expect anyone to lie down and say "uncle". If you did not mean what I suspected, then nobody is more pleased than I.
That is what I've been saying. I too am pleased that we can put this to bed in agreement, forget it and move foward positively.

Peace.
Wait you two can not get off that easily.
I was hoping for a 'good old' 'gloves off', 'helmet off', 'sweater over the head' hockey fight, but that is the Canadian in me.

Actually I am glad to see you two back on pleasant speaking terms.
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Old 25-11-2008, 10:43 PM   #174
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Wait you two can not get off that easily.
I was hoping for a 'good old' 'gloves off', 'helmet off', 'sweater over the head' hockey fight, but that is the Canadian in me.

Actually I am glad to see you two back on pleasant speaking terms.
Yeah well if you guys must play those nancy games! LoL

The nice thing is that although we've had a disagreement which has been rather public we have put it to bed and can move forward.
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Old 26-11-2008, 12:38 PM   #175
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The nice thing is that although we've had a disagreement which has been rather public we have put it to bed and can move forward.
In true Masonic style as well.
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