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Old 17-07-2012, 07:44 PM   #81
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Conscious entities are responsible for our thoughts, feelings, and actions! I would have to say - that a consciously, "awake" person - is more responsible for their actions - than a human being closed off - to the awakened experience!
This is what I used to think and I tried to forgive myself for my past actions because I did not know any better, I thought about choice and realised what a powerful thing it is, but now i'm not so sure. I think perhaps they are more aware of their actions and potentially there intensions are directed in a more positive way, but that we, the universe are all one, past, present and future, on all dimensions.

I think perhaps this knowledge could be useful though in bringing harmony to an individual,
all is as it is and this is all it could ever be,
I'm not as knowledgable on eastern philosophies as i'd like to be but this strikes me as a very profound truth that if put in practice could make buhda's of us all.
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Old 17-07-2012, 07:46 PM   #82
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An example of what I meant is, if you have become emotional, the emotion hardly ever controls you to the extent you can't overcome it and act ethically, not causing harm to innocent people.
I would disagree.

IMO emotion and the inability to control it drives all crime.
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Old 17-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #83
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I guarantee that you, like most of the lefties fucking our world up, do not speak from personal experience...that's the problem with the left...too much thinking away from it and not enough bleeding...You really have no idea, do you..?
Trust me I have applied this thinking to all of my experiences past and present, even recently in a matrimonial split it made me smile. I am talking from direct experience and extrapolating. If your perception wont let you perceive it then that is your experience.

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Get some experience and then you'll become real...all you are now is a fake assumption of what you think you'd do in a situation that is beyond your reasoning...I hope you never have to to go through it...It destroys you...piece by piece...day by day you die in increments, each piece more painful than the next little piece of soul that withers and falls of when the fucking sun rises.
.

Not at all, have you read the thread?

How I react is out of my control and is a direct result of cause and effect, or Gods will, if you will.

If you have experienced a terrible situation then I feel for you, truly.

But if you can change your perception things always seem different and there is always another perception.

All the best.
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Old 17-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #84
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This is what I used to think and I tried to forgive myself for my past actions because I did not know any better, I thought about choice and realised what a powerful thing it is, but now i'm not so sure. I think perhaps they are more aware of their actions and potentially there intensions are directed in a more positive way, but that we, the universe are all one, past, present and future, on all dimensions.

I think perhaps this knowledge could be useful though in bringing harmony to an individual,
all is as it is and this is all it could ever be,
I'm not as knowledgable on eastern philosophies as i'd like to be but this strikes me as a very profound truth that if put in practice could make buhda's of us all.
I personally believe - that there are too many selfish human beings on this planet! Unless they become, "awake" and see the error of their ways - there will never be a future for the human race!
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Old 17-07-2012, 08:04 PM   #85
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I personally believe - that there are too many selfish human beings on this planet! Unless they become, "awake" and see the error of their ways - there will never be a future for the human race!
IMO altruism is a totally human concept, you don't see charity in any other kingdom.

So what is selfishness? The desire for your genes to carry on? if it is the human race will be just fine.

Happily? Maybe not but again this is just a human concept.

Either way, things will progress just as they are meant to.
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Old 17-07-2012, 08:06 PM   #86
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Actually there was a study a couple of weeks ago that showed rats displayed acts of kindness.
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Old 17-07-2012, 08:08 PM   #87
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So we seem to have a theory here that:

[A: Disproves religion

and

B: Proves Hitler is not guilty

Anybody care to disprove this premise?

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Old 17-07-2012, 08:09 PM   #88
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Agreed - things will progress as they were meant to! However, the human race is not as advanced, or clever - as they would like to think!

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Old 17-07-2012, 08:18 PM   #89
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Entities will, "wind you up" on your weaknessess! Never bow down to them! The moment you say I don't care - is the moment you gain back control!!
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Old 17-07-2012, 08:21 PM   #90
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If we REact with the programs we are born with and accumulate from society then yes free will is a joke. It's like living life on auto pilot. However if we CHOOSE our actions and reactions and don't just hang on for the ride it is a completely different set of rules.
I agree with this..


I also see that all these things can be considered from different levels of consciousness...emm... It's difficult to describe in words, but I know what I mean and what David Icke means, when he talks about it. In fact in all our actions we choose (consciously or unconsciously) some level of consciousness from which we are acting. Sometimes we are choose program (and in some cases it's not bad, btw), sometimes we are choose wide awareness and all this.

I have an another question (from the point of one level of consciousness) - what determines the degree of empathy in humans, which determines human's behaviour? Genetics, which allows / doesn't allow access to the highest level of consciousness or there is also empathy which is inherent / is not inherent in the genetics, too, as a program? I mean ... there are people who may not have the concept of who they are, why they are here, and so on, but they are simply good and kind...or on the contrary, aggressive. Or even cruel. I never understood the cruelty. In the history of mankind there is enormous amount of cruelty and horror ... How many types of executions and tortures were invented and another cruel things were done?.. David Icke talks about reptiles, and he says that there is not big number of them, but ... there are more number of cruel people who often do not differ from reptiles. WHY?

"Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities"..This is very true, but I don't know, how I can imagine myself in the place of who "led to believe an absurdity for doing atrocities" ... I can not. As they say "hand is not raised." As for most of people. But maybe we have more number of 'reptile people'?... maybe this number is not "very tiny".. who what think? or it is a possession?

edit or maybe I need some empathy for those who have not empathy for understanding this cruel level of consciousness....

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Old 17-07-2012, 08:26 PM   #91
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saw this post

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showp...&postcount=427

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I practice Buddhism, but I couldn't disagree more with your statement. You're not really in a position to experience your own idyllic life, because there's six billion other human beings who are only too happy to upset your apple cart and there's nothing you can do about it, unless you can get six billion people to think the way you do. Good luck with that.

The people of Libya lived in paradise, now it's rubble. There will always be someone to upset the applecart. This world is full of good people, but there will always be evil people.

Enlightenment is the wisdom of emptiness. The wisdom that arises from the direct experience of all phenomena being empty of independent existence. You have already experienced this if you've had a spiritual experience, such as an outer body experience or NDE.

Nirvana is the end of suffering, aka samsara. It's the endless cycle of birth and suffering and death and rebirth, in this lifetime and all future lifetimes.

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma6/enlightnirvana.html

http://www.pbs.org/edens/thailand/buddhism.htm
to me this appears to be the law of cause and effect as we have been viewing it,
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Old 17-07-2012, 08:28 PM   #92
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[quote=fingersync;1060944496]
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Have you lost family? If you have I need your help, because you handle it well...nothing I've done or people I've spoken to can help...I'm really trying to find a way out, but I can't because of my family I can't let down...I can't deal with losing her, but that's selfish...Because I must go on for my family...I'm falling apart and I can't stop it.
I am so sorry if I seem flippant and condascending, it really isn't my intention and I apologise.

Your hurt is palpable and I wish I could say something to help you grieve but words are just that and may aswell be gobledegook if the concept behind them isn't understood.

All I will say is that pain is transient and does pass and it will make you stronger in the long run.

I hope your pain passes soon.
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Old 17-07-2012, 08:45 PM   #93
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I agree with this..


I also see that all these things can be considered from different levels of consciousness...emm... It's difficult to describe in words, but I know what I mean and what David Icke means, when he talks about it. In fact in all our actions we choose (consciously or unconsciously) some level of consciousness from which we are acting. Sometimes we are choose program (and in some cases it's not bad, btw), sometimes we are choose wide awareness and all this.

I have an another question (from the point of one level of consciousness) - what determines the degree of empathy in humans? Genetics, which allows / doesn't allow access to the highest level of consciousness or there is also empathy which is inherent / is not inherent in the genetics, too, as a program? I mean ... there are people who may not have the concept of who they are, why they are here, and so on, but they are simply good and kind...or on the contrary, aggressive. Or even cruel. I never understood the cruelty. In the history of mankind there is enormous amount of cruelty and horror ... How many types of executions and tortures were invented?.. David Icke talks about reptiles, and he says that there is not big number of them, but ... there are more number of cruel people who often do not differ from reptiles. WHY?

"Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities"..This is very true, but I don't know, how I can imagine myself in the place of who "led to believe an absurdity for doing atrocities" ... I can not. As they say "as hand is not raised." As for most of people. But maybe we have more number of 'reptile people'?... maybe this number is not "very tiny".. who what think? or it is a possession?
I agree with this too

I'm not sure what you mean by one level of consciousness so perhaps my thoughts are a not in relation to what your asking but, for me I think empathy has a lot do do with early life experience, maybe there is a genetic component- natural talent if you will, but I think it is tuned in to in the early years and then perhaps again as an adult. I think often highly empathic people seem to have suffered a lot of traumatic experiences but so have a lot of cruel individuals, it seems there are those who have created a shell to protect themselves from cruelty and that has made them cruel themselves and there are others who have opened all there senses so they can tune into sources of conflict,rage, fear etc to enable them to manage a situation before it arises. Although it can also be nurtured in a loving secure enviroment where individuals are honest and in tune with their feelings
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Old 17-07-2012, 08:50 PM   #94
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I have come to the conclusion that ultimately nobody is responsible for their actions, at first this may sound ludicrous but hear me out.

IMO everything in this dimension is subject to the Law of cause and effect, absolutely everything, including our thoughts.

This being the case, whatever is happening right now and whatever will happen in the future could only ever happen that way; It also means that there is no free will and that every choice that you make is dictated by the sum total of your previous experience and the situation that you find yourself in when making the choice.

This means that ultimately people are not responsible for their actions and what they do is beyond their control and in total control of the Law of cause and effect, Or "God’s Will."
yet the laws themselves are governed by yet other laws! and the mighty law of compensation is no exception! she be also governed by the laws of balance. as such, there can be no more determinism than there can be non-determinism.

free will and even more importantly, will itself are totally different subjects.
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Old 17-07-2012, 09:07 PM   #95
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yet the laws themselves are governed by yet other laws! and the mighty law of compensation is no exception! she be also governed by the laws of balance. as such, there can be no more determinism than there can be non-determinism.

free will and even more importantly, will itself are totally different subjects.
what is the difference between will and free will as you describe it can you expand on that a bit, all this has keep making me think of the crowley quote
"love is the law, love under will"
sorry if I have a misquote there
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Old 17-07-2012, 09:14 PM   #96
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I agree with this too

I'm not sure what you mean by one level of consciousness so perhaps my thoughts are a not in relation to what your asking but, for me I think empathy has a lot do do with early life experience, maybe there is a genetic component- natural talent if you will, but I think it is tuned in to in the early years and then perhaps again as an adult. I think often highly empathic people seem to have suffered a lot of traumatic experiences but so have a lot of cruel individuals, it seems there are those who have created a shell to protect themselves from cruelty and that has made them cruel themselves and there are others who have opened all there senses so they can tune into sources of conflict,rage, fear etc to enable them to manage a situation before it arises. Although it can also be nurtured in a loving secure enviroment where individuals are honest and in tune with their feelings
Yes. All these cases have a place... By the way, a hard life experience not always led to empathy, yes..

What I meant? I meant that all these questions origin from "mind" and separateness.. we separate genetics, programs, "consciousness" (God, God's will), early life experience, time (it's illusion, really), history.. etc. I wrote so because when I ask these questions, they often seem silly for me, because actually I know that I know the answer, but it is difficult to express in words...

"From the point of "unity" you are not asking questions because you know the answer. Or rather, there are no answers because there are no questions" (if I remembered it exactly, from book "infinite love...") - EXACTLY.

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Old 17-07-2012, 09:16 PM   #97
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I have come to the conclusion that ultimately nobody is responsible for their actions, at first this may sound ludicrous but hear me out.

IMO everything in this dimension is subject to the Law of cause and effect, absolutely everything, including our thoughts.

This being the case, whatever is happening right now and whatever will happen in the future could only ever happen that way; It also means that there is no free will and that every choice that you make is dictated by the sum total of your previous experience and the situation that you find yourself in when making the choice.

This means that ultimately people are not responsible for their actions and what they do is beyond their control and in total control of the Law of cause and effect, Or "God’s Will."
The question that needs to be asked is "who Am I?" in this question lies a thread which leads one to the truth of One
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Old 17-07-2012, 09:17 PM   #98
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what is the difference between will and free will as you describe it can you expand on that a bit, all this has keep making me think of the crowley quote
"love is the law, love under will"
sorry if I have a misquote there
free will is a fiction, will however is not.

"do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"

is another, and it grasps the reality of the situation quite nicely.

Will is the creative force of all, it is what causes manifestation to be. The Monotheistic texts talk of the creation of this reality in the following way:

'god merely has to say be, and it is'

here, god is described as willing existence into "reality", it does not take hands and a potters wheel nor potions and elixir but instead the creative force of will.

Will is supreme with regards to all matters.

That is why the kingdom of heaven is within and that is why we are made in the "image of god", for we are will manifest, yet manifesting.

So, with regards to the OP, this means that determinism has it's effects, yet the Will is author of all material and "non-material" realms.
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Old 17-07-2012, 09:35 PM   #99
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Yes. All these cases have a place... By the way, a hard life experience not always led to empathy, yes.. .
I was meaning a hard life can send you either way either towards cruelty (closed) or to empathy (open)

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What I meant? I meant that all these questions origin from "mind" and separateness.. we separate genetics, programs, "consciousness" (God, God's will), early life experience, time (it's illusion, really), history.. etc. I wrote so because when I ask these questions, they often seem silly for me, because actually I know that I know the answer, but it is difficult to express in words...

"From the point of "unity" you are not asking questions because you know the answer. Or rather, there are no answers because there are no questions" (if I remembered it exactly, from book "infinite love...") - EXACTLY.
I love this



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Originally Posted by loveisthelaw View Post
free will is a fiction, will however is not.

"do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"

is another, and it grasps the reality of the situation quite nicely.

Will is the creative force of all, it is what causes manifestation to be. The Monotheistic texts talk of the creation of this reality in the following way:

'god merely has to say be, and it is'

here, god is described as willing existence into "reality", it does not take hands and a potters wheel nor potions and elixir but instead the creative force of will.

Will is supreme with regards to all matters.

That is why the kingdom of heaven is within and that is why we are made in the "image of god", for we are will manifest, yet manifesting.

So, with regards to the OP, this means that determinism has it's effects, yet the Will is author of all material and "non-material" realms.
thanks for the reply, I need to digest this a bit
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Old 17-07-2012, 09:44 PM   #100
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thanks for the reply, I need to digest this a bit
you are welcome! if you need clarification then feel free to ask as it is my pleasure.

this is all just my reality and not everyone's! so do not feel I am telling you "how it is", I am just telling you "how it is in my world"
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wouldn't it be terrible to never in your life have had anything important enough to risk it all for.

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