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View Poll Results: L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?
Yes L. Ron Hubbard is the Messiah and the reincarnation of Buddha. 2 6.06%
No. L. Ron Hubbard was a deranged psychopath. 31 93.94%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-02-2011, 03:49 PM   #41
stillwakingup
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Originally Posted by gurlbit View Post
Pot? Meet Kettle.
Sorry I corresponded with you when??
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Old 02-02-2011, 03:58 PM   #42
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This is you being civil?Would hate to see you the rest of the time!!!
Might I suggest you have have mixed up the people you are bickering with-( there are a lot)
I didnt set any tone because I have no agenda.I simply asked a couple of questions which you seem to have taken exception to for some bizzare reason.
Perhaps you should get you head out of your arse and open your mind a little.
As for what I want to be when I "go up"--litterate unlike you.
wanker
Yes, "civil" new word for you to look up. Unlike Your words "litterate", and "bizzare" Civil has a real meaning understood and applied by many with the possible exception of those who are-still-waking-up and not quite "litterate" (your word).

Course not everybody can be as "litterate" as you. But perhaps someday when you, finally "wake up" (assuming that's possible)and separate your head from arse. You can look at post #21 on this thread and discover, Yes, I tried to be Civil with you,(look it up) but you did not want it that way. You wanted name calling, and confrontation, so you got name calling and confrontation. so quit crying, dirt bag!

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Old 02-02-2011, 04:48 PM   #43
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Default scientology?hubbard was nuts,UNLESS...

unless Ron Hubbard was the guy in the famous american psychiatrist Eric Berne's 1947 book-a laymans guide to psychiatry and psychoanalysis. in a chapter titled 'what is insanity?', berne talks about a "there was a man,living down on the mudflats in olympia, who could have played at being king and philosopher..he was full of heavenly aspirations..." the next few pages describe this man[given the pseudonym 'cary fayton']in real detail, and is why i think i am the 'current messiah'.

"Cary had some strange experiences..."-i heard a voice say 'you are the new messiah',AND a spitting image of the skull that was reconstructed for the BBC's 'son of god' documentary.AND i was blinded by a 'flash of light' one night, after which i said to my friend,"funny if there's a shooting star tonight as WELL.."and THAT precise second there were about FIVE[star spangled banner, U.S.-'us'-the angels[at least that was how i interpreted it at the time!]

"He believed he was to be King of the World, and had been given a special sign,cross over a circle, which was to be his sign...the Lord had appeared to him"-like i said, i heard i was the new messiah.upon finishing college i moved into a flat opposite the SAME sign(although at the time i was not aware of berne's book, even though my father had it since xmas 1978-four years or so before i was even born!)AND i DID see an 'invisible man' wave at me whilst on a train when returning from college!

BECAUSE of the countless similarities between my own 'mental "illness"'and that of cary fayton i would say that cary was born in 1882-turning 18 in the year 1900.

there is also a sentence which 'sticks out' at me,about 10pages befopre the cary chapter-"the Reed music shop,next door to the Seifuss book store".seifuss was the surname berne used for cary's mary of agdalin/medusa/atropis etc etc, and she was evil as sin!so maybe the 'great book' is also evil?i have got to admit, music is much more relevant to my life[and messiah complex]thanthe bible has been or ever will be!

The thing is, Berne knew that 'cary' had some points about 'god'!i.e. in the last few pages of berne's book there is a dialogue between a guy called 'rex bigfoot' and amber argent.rex is latin fior king.BEFORE the relevant chapter, there is a story of a 'mr abel' who was told by his episcopal minister that 'he must have been born with the mark of abel,as the lord seemed to have chosen him to be a born victim, lke his biblical namesake'-Abel was jesus[or th other way round] and cain was judas! anyway, the dialogue is exactly how MY voices used to go with MY medusa-a petra oak, poisonous acorn?

oh by the way, i doubt that berne's book would have meant sdo much to me if it weren't for me hearing my 'archangel'[bob] ask me "whats in a name?" as i was about to enter a pub called 'uncle henrys'[old nickname for satan]!

if, on the offchance, anybody who reads this is interested in my own 'theism' then go to my site-www.kingstuddos-thesunking.co.uk

there are some pages from the laymans guide which iscanned in, some information on MY own judas,and my 3 wise men!along with some thought provoking comments on the nativity, which again, i arrived at after hearing bob say i was 'born in a north london council flat'!
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:30 PM   #44
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The guy who was Crowley's right hand man and passed on his influences to Jack Parsons who carried out the Babylon working ritual, yeah real Messiah don't you think so. It is because of him we have whackjobs like Tom Cruise, John Travolta and possibly Will Smith in the Scientology cult and making it popular to join them.

The AntiChrist Conspiracy

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Old 02-02-2011, 08:20 PM   #45
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[]Yes, "civil" new word for you to look up. Unlike Your words "litterate", and "bizzare" Civil has a real meaning understood and applied by many with the possible exception of those who are-still-waking-up and not quite "litterate" (your word).

Course not everybody can be as "litterate" as you. But perhaps someday when you, finally "wake up" (assuming that's possible)and separate your head from arse. You can look at post #21 on this thread and discover, Yes, I tried to be Civil with you,(look it up) but you did not want it that way. You wanted name calling, and confrontation, so you got name calling and confrontation. so quit crying, dirt bag!


litterate
.
able to read and write.
2.
having or showing knowledge of literature, writing, etc.; literary; well-read.
3.
characterized by skill, lucidity, polish, or the like: His writing is literate but cold and clinical.
4.
having knowledge or skill in a specified field: literate in computer usage.
5.
having an education; educated.
–noun
6.
a person who can read and write.
7.
a learned person.
Use literate in a Sentence

–adjective
markedly unusual in appearance, style, or general character and often involving incongruous or unexpected elements; outrageously or whimsically strange; odd: bizarre clothing; bizarre behavior.

See 2 new REAL words for you to learn--theres a good boy--teacher may even move you off the naughty chair!!

Yeah btw you were initially civil,then had a rage explosion for no apparent reason.Perhaps you should have another look,I think you are having a conflict of enemies--maybe I was just in the firing line.
Really think you mght have "issues" so I will give you a fools pardon.
Have a nice day irrespect of who you are pissing off.
O ho,dictionary time again.............................................

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Old 02-02-2011, 09:41 PM   #46
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Default i think EVERYBODY could use the dictionary a littl

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Originally Posted by stillwakingup View Post
[]
O ho,dictionary time again.............................................
okay then...have any of YOU actually ever looked up 'messiah'?it clearly says it is a translation from ancient hebrew which meant 'anointed'.why then, does every single think this is a special 'term' for jesus and jesus alone?you're all morons, if you ask me!
another word to look up is 'resurrection'-the re-emergence of the christ FIGURE[i.e.NOT jesus]!
another one is 'Fate'-three goddess from classical mythology who changed the course of life for Mankind. actually, they were hardly goddess, but more like evil bitches!medusa came after but was exactly the same-the leader of a band of priestess who wore masks[and doubtless worshipped a fake god]?
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:28 AM   #47
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The guy who was Crowley's right hand man and passed on his influences to Jack Parsons who carried out the Babylon working ritual, yeah real Messiah don't you think so. It is because of him we have whackjobs like Tom Cruise, John Travolta and possibly Will Smith in the Scientology cult and making it popular to join them.

The AntiChrist Conspiracy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2w2L...eature=related

Let me explain to you and all others who are reading this post, the real reason why you are here meksar talking against Tom Cruise and John Trovolta.

YOU ARE A SCORNED BLACK RACIST, PROMOTING A LIE THAT WHITE EUROPEANS ALTERED ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPRESS BLACK HISTORY.

I called you on this ridiculous lie, and this “response” you have given to my post here is childish “payback” for disagreeing with your racist agenda.

I do not make this charge lightly, and would not say it if it were not true or could not back it up with documentation.

The section for meksar’s racist comments are,


DI forums, Ancient History / Forbidden Knowledge / History Rewritten and the thread is, Egypt (kemet):the dna science, history and racism.

Here are some samples of Meskar's racist rants,

“Who gives a shit what white people think anymore about Kemet”

“White people did not understand the spirituality of Kemet”,

“First of all the original Egyptians were black and it was European people who tried to hide the truth and turn them white deceiving everyone the devilish lies.”

“ The white elite are thief's however as they have stolen black peoples light.”

“Most of you white people are slaves to the Zionist agenda of white supremacy”.

On and on, and on and on, One racial slur after another, Meksar demonstrates he judges everyone on the color of their skin alone. Almost every post Meksar makes on that thread is his hate of white people.

Don't take my word for it, look for yourself

There are many, many more, but Here are some post # on that thread where you can verify all this for yourself if you do not believe me,

5, 9, 10, 16, 17, 60, 63,67, 82, 86, 96, 108, + more,

EVERYTHING IS A WHITE/BLACK ISSUE TO meksar. He demonstrates enough times to leave little doubt. "it's all the fault of white people", The white people did this, the white people did that". Perhaps Trovolta and Cruise are just guiity of being white people and nothing else?




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Old 03-02-2011, 01:20 AM   #48
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Let me explain to you and all others who are reading this post, the real reason why you are here meksar talking against Tom Cruise and John Trovolta.

YOU ARE A SCORNED BLACK RACIST, PROMOTING A LIE THAT WHITE EUROPEANS ALTERED ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPRESS BLACK HISTORY.

I called you on this ridiculous lie, and this “response” you have given to my post here is childish “payback” for disagreeing with your racist agenda.

I do not make this charge lightly, and would not say it if it were not true or could not back it up with documentation.

The section for meksar’s racist comments are,


DI forums, Ancient History / Forbidden Knowledge / History Rewritten and the thread is, Egypt (kemet):the dna science, history and racism.

Here are some samples of Meskar's racist rants,

“Who gives a shit what white people think anymore about Kemet”

“White people did not understand the spirituality of Kemet”,

“First of all the original Egyptians were black and it was European people who tried to hide the truth and turn them white deceiving everyone the devilish lies.”

“ The white elite are thief's however as they have stolen black peoples light.”

“Most of you white people are slaves to the Zionist agenda of white supremacy”.

On and on, and on and on, One racial slur after another, Meksar demonstrates he judges everyone on the color of their skin alone. Almost every post Meksar makes on that thread is his hate of white people.

Don't take my word for it, look for yourself

There are many, many more, but Here are some post # on that thread where you can verify all this for yourself if you do not believe me,

5, 9, 10, 16, 17, 60, 63,67, 82, 86, 96, 108, + more,

EVERYTHING IS A WHITE/BLACK ISSUE TO meksar. He demonstrates enough times to leave little doubt. "it's all the fault of white people", The white people did this, the white people did that". Perhaps Trovolta and Cruise are just guiity of being white people and nothing else?




Let me tell you something man there is a scripture talking about the world is given into the hand of the wicked in the bible, the white race are a genetic mutation of the balck race hence they promote nonsense like humans evolving from apes and show the Israelites and Eyptians as being European when it is a lie. Have you ever heard of leprosy and what happens when dark skinned people live in cooler climates.

I think your deliberately taking the thread off topic and what i say in other threads while accurate and backed by solid evidence is irrelevant to the subject of this thread.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:32 AM   #49
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Job 9 24 “The earth is given into the hand of the wicked;
He covers the faces of its judges.
If it is not He, then who is it?

THE WHITE MAN CONTRIBUTED NOTHING BUT WICKEDNESS TO HISTORY
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:34 AM   #50
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[B]Let me explain to you and all others who are reading this post, the real reason why you are here meksar talking against Tom Cruise and John Trovolta.

[U]YOU ARE A SCORNED BLACK RACIST, PROMOTING A LIE THAT WHITE EUROPEANS ALTERED ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPRESS BLACK HISTORY.

I called you on this ridiculous lie, and this “response” you have given to my post here is childish “payback” for disagreeing with your racist agenda.
[
I would just like to point out to all who are reading this thread, that on the two recent Scientology threads here, all that Arcyclus seems to do is to scream abuse.

This is the "standard" Scientology method; they are "forbidding" under direct orders from their cult "never" to defend against criticisms of their cult, but rather to merely go into "attack" mode, and to personally attack all critics, by all means necessary. This policy is called "Fair Game" in the Scientology cult "insider language."

The following is from L.RON HUBBARD, "Messiah or Madman?" Bent Corydon and L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., page 232. The entire text can be read on: http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/mo..._or_Madman.txt


"The policy ....wrtten by Hubbard:

This is the correct procedure.
1. Spot who is attacking us.
2. Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse, using our
professionals, not outside agencies.
3. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of
them.
4. Start feeding lurid, blood, sex crimes, actual evidence on the at-
tackers to the press.

Don't ever submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough on our
attackers all the way.

Another policy Hubbard ordered enforced:

The following is a list of the successful...actions used by [our] in-
telligence [bureau]:

- Using...[sex] on someone high in government to seduce them
over to our side.
- Infiltrating in every group with an end to getting documents.
- Covert third partying with forged or phony signatures.
- Anonymous third partying [stirring up trouble by a campaign of
disinformation]. Particularly the Internal Revenue Service...
- Direct theft of documents
- Impersonating a reporter over the phone.
The following are possibilities for collecting data:
1. Infiltration
2. Bribery
3. Buying information
4. Robbery
5. Blackmail

.... A special operation in line with the above policies and the "Fair
Game policy" was designed for Michael Flynn (a major anti-Scientologist).
It was labelled "Operation Juggernaut" and designed to "lie [about],
cheat, sue and destroy" him."



With regards to Tom Cruise and other celebrities, these celebrities often have no idea what life is like for the average Scientologist; such celibrities are used as a public relationships stunt and are treated to a 5 star lifestyle.

With regards to Meksar's Comments on Hubbard and Parsons, I have already dealt with this matter in the "Scientology" thread. Hubbard was only an O.T.O member for a few months. Crowley referred to Hubbard and his girlfiend Betty (formerly Jack Parson's girlfriend) as "victim prowling swindlers (see below)."


Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus




L. Ron Hubbard: "(a) victim prowling swindler")...Aleister Crowley."


Above: Aleister Crowley, Jack Parsons and L. Ron Hubbard.


I have come across Scientology Internet activists on Thelemic / Crowley / esoteric discussion groups before, and they always make a big issue about Hubbard being a fellow Thelemite; Hubbard was a fraud, a charlatan, and a business man who embezzled $17,000 from Parsons (a fortune in 1946) and bought himself a yaught with it.

Hubbard was in no way a Thelemite. His views on sexuality were as repressed as the Roman Catholic Church; he considered sex a form of degradation (only for his cultists apparently, but apparently not for himself) and was openly homophobic, referring to homosexuality as a mental illness.

Crowley was a spiritualist, a great scholar and a prolific writer of obvious genius, and Jack Parsons clearly looked up to him; whereas Hubbard was interested in making money out of religion and he stated as much; he was also writer of childish science fiction which displays his obvious imbecility. He was little more than a con-man.



Lux


The Sunday Times 5 October 1969

http://www.american-buddha.com/auth....lliesparry.htm

By May that same year Crowley was not only concerned about Parsons spiritual well-being. There was a smaller matter of certain moneys. When the trio formed their business enterprise, Parsons is believed to have put in 17,000 dollars, Hubbard about 1,000 dollars, and Betty nothing. Using about 10,000 dollars of he money, Hubbard and his newly acquired girlfriend, Betty, bought a yacht. A report to the head of the American branch by another cult member says, "Ron and Betty have their boat at Miami, Florida, and are living the life of Riley, while Brother John (Parsons) is living at rock bottom and I mean rock bottom.
...............

On reading Parson's accounts of the ceremony and the reports from branch headquarters in America, Crowley cabled his U S office on May 22: "Suspect Ron playing confidence trick -- Jack Parsons weak fool -- obvious victim prowling swindlers." In a letter a few days later he said, "It seems to me on the information of our brethren in California that Parsons has got an illumination in which he lost all his personal independence. From our brother's account, he has given away both his girl and his money . Apparently it is the ordinary confidence trick."

A much-chastened Parsons wrote to Crowley on July 5, "Here I am in Miami pursuing the children of my folly. I have them well tied up. They cannot move without going to jail. However, I am afraid that most of the money has already been spent. I will be lucky to salvage 3,000 to 5,000 dollars." Just how Parsons managed to capture the errant lovers is in keeping with the other extraordinary chapters of this story. "Hubbard attempted to escape me," Parsons wrote, "by sailing at 5 p.m. and performed a full invocation to the Bartzabel within the circle at 8 p.m. (a curse). At the same time, however, his ship was struck by a sudden squall off the coast which ripped off his sails and forced him back to port where I took the boat in custody."

..........

Hubbard claims that more than two dozen thinkers, prophets and psychologists influenced scientology (which he launched in 1951); everyone from Plato, Jesus of Nazareth to Sigmund Freud whom he says he studied under in Vienna. The record can now be righted with the inclusion of Aleister Crowley, the Beast, 666.


With regards to the "Babalon Working" I have already dealt with this on the other Scientology thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
The Babalon Archetype and the New Aeon

It is important to understand what the archetype of Babalon is, and Her importance to the New Aeon. However first I would like to deal with the position of the Scientology apologists on this thread. Scientology apologists have a habit of going into rantings and ravings against all who challenge the alleged teachings and behaviour of the cult of the alleged Second Coming (reincarnation) of Buddha, L.Ron Hubbard. The fact that Buddha was an atheist who denied the existence of the Atman (soul) and the possibility of reincarnation is irrelevant to the Scientologists, since the Second Coming of Buddha (Hubbard) was a proponent of "exorcism" though "auditing;" what is allegedly being exorcised are the alleged myriads of souls of "space aliens," which according to Hubbard "possess" each human soul.


The "Straw Man" argument fallacy. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

The responses from the Scientology apologists here appear to be based on the critique of materialism; however in the almost two years on this forum I have yet to come across a single philosophical materialist or a Marxist on this forum. The only ideological Communists on this forum are the Anarchists, and none of us appear to be materialists.

The philosophical argument between materialism and spiritualism is not relevant here. If a person is accused in court of murder, kidnapping, child abuse, etc., it is not a relevant defence to argue that the prosecutor is an atheist.

I am not an ex Scientologist, and neither am I a materialist; the criticisms of Hubbard's neo-fascist cult are based purely on my study of the writings of Scientologists, ex-Scientologists and anti-Scientologists and from personal aquanitances who are ex-Scientologists.

I may post a materialism vs. spiritualism thread on this forum, but like many other threads here, it would probably just turn into an excuse for the various "Trolls for Jesus" to ramble on incessantly, since I know of no materialists here who would defend the position that matter comes from matter.



Argument Fallacies.

Criticisms of Hubbard's cult which are responded to with criticisms of philosophical materialism" constitute a common argument fallacy. For example, let us consider the authors the world's three major religions, the authors of the Jesus of the Gospels fiction, the authors of the Vedic scriptures and the author(s) of the Koran; none of these persons were materialists. Thus if we criticise any of these religions, and the fanatics all respond with a criticism of materialism; this is simply a common argument fallacy.

Aleister Crowley, the Babalon archetype and the sexually repressed Virgin Mary archetype.



I would further point out that attacking Scientology on the basis of Hubbard being an O.T.O. member for a few months, and the connections between Parsons, Crowley and Hubbard is hardly appropriate. Crowley considered Hubbard to be a con man, and he stated as much. L.Ron took a great deal of money from Jack which he used to purchase a yacht; their relationship thus ended.

Babalon represents the female archetype of the New Aeon. We see this archetype manifesting in the modern women. The Christian and Scientology archetypes of an ideal woman are probably best represented by the "Virgin Mary," who is essentially a "slave." She is a sexually repressed creature. She is a submissive possession of her male slave master and a model for the major sins of restriction which are monogamy and celibacy; these are the highest of heresies and blasphemies against the goddess of nature. The Babalon working is essentially an adaptation of the "Great Rite" which virtually all Neowiccans and Neopagans who are ritualists perform, either symbolically or actually.

Babalon, on the other hand is a sexually liberated archetype; slut, whore..whatever; the proponents of the sins of restriction can insult her as they will, but such is the model for the New Aeon, and it is entirely in accord with nature. We do not insult female animals in such a way; we do not refer to them in derogatory terms if they fuck whomsoever they will, whenever they will; such expressions are simply the sign of a sexually repressed mind.

Thelemites, by default, will always be the enemies of the Christians, Muslims, Scientologists and other proponents of slave morality (religious morality); there is simply no room for toleration or compromise; the religious fanatics of the earth must, in time, be utterly swept away. Thelemic philosophy demands absolute, apocalyptic, genocidal militancy, and this is as it must be and will be in the age of apocalyptic war to come, since our religious enemies are also similarly militant and genocidal. Mercy and compassion towards to proponents of the sins of restriction (i.e., the religious fanatics and proponents of slave morality) is utterly heretical and blasphemous.



"Babalon is referred to as the Scarlet Woman, the Great Mother, and the Mother of Abominations. Her godform is that of a sacred whore, and her primary symbol is the Chalice or Graal. Her consort is Chaos, the “Father of Life” and the male form of the Creative Principle. Babalon is often described as being girt with a sword and riding the Beast, with whom Aleister Crowley personally identified. As Aleister Crowley wrote, “She rides astride the Beast; in her left hand she holds the reins, representing the passion which unites them. In her right she holds aloft the cup, the Holy Grail aflame with love and death. In this cup are mingled the elements of the sacrament of the Aeon” (Book of Thoth). In a more general sense, Babalon represents the liberated woman and the full expression of the sexual impulse."
http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Babalon
Communism and Materialism

Communism is an economic ideology and is perhaps better defined as "collectivism." Since the 19th century, Anarchists (who are also Communists, apart from a tiny minority who are Anarcho-Capitalists) have opposed Marxism for various reasons, however Anarchism is not a materialistic philosophy, and neither is it a spiritualistic philosophy; rather it is simply a political philosophy, though certainly the Biblical deity is probably among the most cruel and sadist Archons of human history and the enemy of all Anarchists (apart from the Anarchist Christians and theistic Anarchists).

Criticisms of Marxism and Marxist materialism would be better expressed on Marxist discussion forums, since there do not appear to be any Marxists on this discussion board. I should point out that there are also numerous Neomarxists who embrace Marx's political ideology but reject Marx's materialism, such as the Liberation Theologians, Christian Marxists, etc. Materialism is anyway based on a 19th century view of science; a conclusion of quantum physics research is that scientists simply do not know what the basis of matter is, however it is certainly not matter.


Lux
Blasphemy, Heresy, War, Revolution, etc.
No mercy on they who deserve none.




". These are fools that men adore; both their Gods & their men are fools.

Come forth, o children, under the stars, & take your fill of love!

I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy..........

I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.....

Them that seek to entrap thee, to overthrow thee, them attack without pity or quarter; & destroy them utterly. Swift as a trodden serpent turn and strike! Be thou yet deadlier than he! Drag down their souls to awful torment: laugh at their fear: spit upon them!

..........Then will I lift her to pinnacles of power: then will I breed from her a child mightier than all the kings of the earth. I will fill her with joy...

I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men.

Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!

With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross.

I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him.

With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din.

Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds.

Let Mary inviolate be torn upon wheels: for her sake let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!

Also for beauty's sake and love's! ...

Just to restate, the standard Scientology "defence" is as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
"Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns." All About Radiation (1952) p. 109

"You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps." "Eyesight and glasses" in Dianetic Auditor's Bulletin Vol. 2, No. 7, (January 1952)

Both L. Ron Hubbard quotes are cited from: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

_________________



Essentially the strategy of the Scientology cultists strategy goes like this:

Q: What is the evidence that Scientology can cure radiation burns and short sightedness?

A: You are a materialist, you are a Satanist.

Q: What is the evidence that Scientology can cure radiation burns and short sightedness?

B: Psychciatrists are evil. There has been a long history of abuse by psychiatrists.

Q: What is the evidence that Scientology can cure radiation burns and short sightedness?

A: You are violating my religious freedom.

Q: What is the evidence that Scientology can cure radiation burns and short sightedness?

A: ..............various temper tantrums, abuse and psychotic ramblings



Yes, Scientologists are told to attack all critics, but they are forbidden to defend their mind control cult; they cannot and do not try to defend it simply because it is indefensible.

Lux


______________
THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them. L. Ron Hubbard. Lecture: "Off the Time Track" (June 1952) as quoted in Journal of Scientology issue 18-G, reprinted in Technical Volumes of Dianetics & Scientology Vol. 1, p. 418
It is because of such methods that the Scientologists are regularly excommunicatde from anti-Scientology discussion forums such as www.xenu.net; it is not a matter of restricting their attempt to defend Scientology against critics; it is simply that they are forbidden by their cult to defend against criticism and merely go into attack mode; part of their strategy also appears to be to use anonymous profiles; a person who is constantly attacking Scientology's critics is generally always suspected to be a Scientologist; one has to remember that they have an army of professional Internet activists; it is their sacred mission.



With regards to Meksar's interpretation of history, I should point out that "history" is generally taught in European schools from a Eurocentric perspective, just as in Africa it is taught from an Afrocentric perspective and in China from a Chinese-centric persepective; obviously, for example, an African history professor is likely to take a very dim view of the Christian slave trade and Christian-European imperialism. With regards to the Egyptians being "black" people; we have ample evidence from the depictions of Egyptians in Egyptian artwork that the Egyptian population included people of various racial appearances, including "Nubians" who were essentially black African slaves captured by the Egyptians. There are also depictions of "black" skinned Pharaohs; however this should not be take to imply that "all" Egyptians were black Africans, nor that all Pharoahs were black Africans; on the contrary; like any dictatorship, military coups were not uncommon and dynasties rose and fell.



Lux

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Old 03-02-2011, 05:27 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
I would just like to point out to all who are reading this thread, that on the two recent Scientology threads here, all that Arcyclus seems to do is to scream abuse.

This is the "standard" Scientology method; they are "forbidding" under direct orders from their cult "never" to defend against criticisms of their cult, but rather to merely go into "attack" mode, and to personally attack all critics, by all means necessary. This policy is called "Fair Game" in the Scientology cult "insider language."

The following is from L.RON HUBBARD, "Messiah or Madman?" Bent Corydon and L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., page 232. The entire text can be read on: http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/mo..._or_Madman.txt


"The policy ....wrtten by Hubbard:

This is the correct procedure.
1. Spot who is attacking us.
2. Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse, using our
professionals, not outside agencies.
3. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of
them.
4. Start feeding lurid, blood, sex crimes, actual evidence on the at-
tackers to the press.

Don't ever submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough on our
attackers all the way.

Another policy Hubbard ordered enforced:

The following is a list of the successful...actions used by [our] in-
telligence [bureau]:

- Using...[sex] on someone high in government to seduce them
over to our side.
- Infiltrating in every group with an end to getting documents.
- Covert third partying with forged or phony signatures.
- Anonymous third partying [stirring up trouble by a campaign of
disinformation]. Particularly the Internal Revenue Service...
- Direct theft of documents
- Impersonating a reporter over the phone.
The following are possibilities for collecting data:
1. Infiltration
2. Bribery
3. Buying information
4. Robbery
5. Blackmail

.... A special operation in line with the above policies and the "Fair
Game policy" was designed for Michael Flynn (a major anti-Scientologist).
It was labelled "Operation Juggernaut" and designed to "lie [about],
cheat, sue and destroy" him."



With regards to Tom Cruise and other celebrities, these celebrities often have no idea what life is like for the average Scientologist; such celibrities are used as a public relationships stunt and are treated to a 5 star lifestyle.

With regards to Meksar's Comments on Hubbard and Parsons, I have already dealt with this matter in the "Scientology" thread. Hubbard was only an O.T.O member for a few months. Crowley referred to Hubbard and his girlfiend Betty (formerly Jack Parson's girlfriend) as "victim prowling swindlers (see below)."




With regards to the "Babalon Working" I have already dealt with this on the other Scientology thread




Just to restate, the standard Scientology "defence" is as follows:



It is because of such methods that the Scientologists are regularly excommunicatde from anti-Scientology discussion forums such as www.xenu.net; it is not a matter of restricting their attempt to defend Scientology against critics; it is simply that they are forbidden by their cult to defend against criticism and merely go into attack mode; part of their strategy also appears to be to use anonymous profiles; a person who is constantly attacking Scientology's critics is generally always suspected to be a Scientologist; one has to remember that they have an army of professional Internet activists; it is their sacred mission.



With regards to Meksar's interpretation of history, I should point out that "history" is generally taught in European schools from a Eurocentric perspective, just as in Africa it is taught from an Afrocentric perspective and in China from a Chinese-centric persepective; obviously, for example, an African history professor is likely to take a very dim view of the Christian slave trade and Christian-European imperialism. With regards to the Egyptians being "black" people; we have ample evidence from the depictions of Egyptians in Egyptian artwork that the Egyptian population included people of various racial appearances, including "Nubians" who were essentially black African slaves captured by the Egyptians. There are also depictions of "black" skinned Pharaohs; however this should not be take to imply that "all" Egyptians were black Africans, nor that all Pharoahs were black Africans; on the contrary; like any dictatorship, military coups were not uncommon and dynasties rose and fell.



Lux
My posts speak for them self. THere is no need to defend them. I do not scream abuse. because I am not abused by anything or anyone. I am not a victim and no where on any forum have I ever said I was a victim.

I know how to fight back and speak my mind. That is the real issue you have with me.

You systematically and indiscriminately run down every religion on this board. You do not do it with documentation but with rumor, half-truths, and hear say.

You are a self described cult member of Communism.



A failed idealogy who's very claim to fame is it's hatred of free choice.





The cult of Communistism exterminated an estimated 95 million people last centruy.



Many of those people were guilty of nothing more than being able to read and write.






To know anything more than communist idelogy is a threat to the cult of Communism.




Joining the cult of communism means You Lucerferhorus approve of Communist leaders, and the actions they have taken against mankind.



Therefore it should come as no surprise, you have a hate for all religion and all things regarding free choice, It's all part of the cult of Communism.







It is also an easy call that you agree with meksor that it is the white Europeans that have deliberately hidden evidence of ancient black history and culture so as to keep black people down. It's all part of the Communist cult of class struggle.








The Communist cult has to create class struggle for the cult of communism to even exist.
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:01 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post


Anti-Communist rants are not an appropriate defence against criticisms of L Ron Hubbard and the beliefs and behaviour of his cultists.

I will repost your ramblings about Communism on the Communist thread where they belong in: "What is Anarchist Communism? What is to be done?" http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155169; similarly with all other ramblings about Communism.


To restate:
How many times are you going to spam this thread with the same pictures and same BS? Hey, justasking!
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Old 03-02-2011, 07:17 AM   #53
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"Anti-Communist rants are not an appropriate defence against criticisms of L Ron Hubbard and the beliefs and behaviour of his cultists."


A little late in the game to now try be selective and specific isn't lucy?

Anyone who has ever read any of your post know, it isn't just Scientology. You have a beef with all mankind"s religion and abhor the idea man has any choice in the religion.
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Old 03-02-2011, 10:00 AM   #54
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To restate: arguments against Communism do not constitute a defence of the beliefs and behaviour of Scientology cultists.

For example:

"Penthouse: Let's get back to how you saw Scientology working on an individual basis. What if someone wrote to your father asking if he could cure their cancer?


Hubbard (Jr. L. Ron's son): He'd say, Oh, yes, he could handle that.



Penthouse: And what would be the charge for curing cancer?


Hubbard: Back in those days it was anywhere from $10 to $25 an hour. Now, it's up to $300 or more an hour."


http://www.rickross.com/reference/sc.../scien240.html

"Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns." L. Ron Hubbard in "All About Radiation (1952)" p. 109

Cited on: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

For example, "Communism is evil" is not an argument which establishes that Scientology auditing sessions (confessing to a Scientologist essentially) can miraculously cure cancer and is the "only specific cure" for radiation burns.

Lux


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Old 03-02-2011, 10:33 PM   #55
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To the contrary..... This is the religious section of DI forums. the cult Communism is a religion. It is the religion of materialism . But religion none the less.

Agian, as you have shown over, and over, agian It is not just Scientology you hate. you hate them all.

More importantly, you hate the idea of free choice in the area of religion.

You cannot understand why everyone can't join your religious cult which is the cult of Communism/materalism.

The idea of freedom of religion is also part of the section religion.

So stop with the whining and trolling and start debunking.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:50 AM   #56
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I have to admit that Hubbard sounded a bit unhinged in his later years, as this audio shows:


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Old 07-09-2011, 04:00 AM   #57
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Oh! Come on... the writer of this Book was the best mission holder in scientolgoy, made lots of money, when the money was taken out, he got very very angry and made this book.

Any other source?


Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
L.RON HUBBARD

Messiah or Madman?

Bent Corydon and
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.
(Nb. L. Ron Hubbard Jr. was L.Ron Hubbard's son)





The Complete 400 page text of "L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?" co-written by L.Ron Hubbard's son is available on: http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/mo..._or_Madman.txt

I doubt if any sane person could read this book and conclude that L. Ron was anything other than a psychopathic madman, which is the conclusion of the authors.

Since it is 400 pages I won't post the entire work into the thread, however I intend to post extracts from time to time, since we have a resident Scientology cultists on the forum and various Scientology apologists.

A purpose of Scientology seems to be essentially to take over the planet and to bring humankind to a state of "clear," meaning essentally that they are mind controlled victims of the cult.




Pseudo-Psychotherapy: Dianetics, the Modem Science of Mental
Health.


Scientology atracts victims with the Freuduan psychotherapy technique of regression. This is a very powerful and effective technique which virtually all professional psychotherapists use, and I don't in any way mean to suggest that Freud's technique was or is innefective or malevolent; on the contrary. However the professional psychotherapist essentially is a "listener" who explores the thoughts, mind, dreams, fantasies, beliefs, behaviour, relationships and sexual behaviour (etc.) of the client. It can be very liberating to have someone whom you can trust and express yourself to in such a way; it is the secular equivalent of the Catholic confessional, and often a "cure" for the effects of religious hypnosis and indoctrination.



In Scientology however, the purpose seems to be to create a mind controlled slave of the cult, who either pays large sums of money to the cult over many years and who to recrut others, or who joins their elite inner core as an economic slave; it is essentially a cult of "obedience."

Cultists are taught that sex is essentially "degenerate." This is a position which no genuine Freudian psychologist would take, since Freud took the opposite view; that it was sexual repression which was one of the main causes of psychosis. Scientologists on the other hand are taught to repress their sexual nature. Recruits to the elite Gestapo style inner core of Scientology (the Sea Org.) are expected to be celibate even if married.



Hubbard, who according to his son, was bisexual and had a preference for young boys, wrote that he considered homosexuality to be a mental illness. His cult followers were and are expected to refrain from sex, drugs & alchohol, despite the fact that Hubbard was serially promiscuous, an alcoholic and used a wide variety of narcotics.



Exorcism

Scientology claims to be both a "science" and an alternative form of therapy to the modern psychotherapy and psychiatry professions, however one needs to consider what their methods of "therapy" are, and the extracts below should make this clear. Essentially Scientologists believe in "exorcism;" that the human soul is possessed by myriads of evil spirits (Thetans); the purpose of therapy being the exorcism of such spirits, often through verbal and physical abuse, slave labour and forced imprisionment. Since this is a reincarnation cult, cultists who join the elite Sea Org are expected to sign a billion year contract; thus their slogan "We come back."



The Messiah.

Although it is often publcly denied, Scientologists believe that Hubbard is the Messiah and the reincarnation of Buddha.

"To his followers he is the reincarnation of the Buddha: The much-
prophesied Messiah awaited by untold millions in the Far East and
throughout the world. The Meitreya; "He whose name is kindness";
the one with the golden hair. It had been prophesied he would ap-
pear in the West, some two and a half thousand years after Buddha's
death.
Wrote Hubbard:

Everywhere you are
I can be addressed
But in your temples best
Address me and you address
Lord Buddha
Address Lord Buddha
And you then address
Meitreya."



The posts which follow this are merely some of the more disturbing and insightful extracts from the above publication.


Lucifer.

More on the anti-Scientology site: http://www.xenu.net/
__________________________




Child Abuse in Scientology


"The four-year-old boy could no longer cry. He had been nearly 40
hours in the chain locker of the flagship Apollo and his entire body
was aching from his efforts to chip off rust. His knees and hands were
raw with cuts and bruises. His voice was raspy from crying, and he
was desperately afraid. He was constantly making resolutions to
never, never again eat the Commodore's telexes - the most recent
crime of which he had been accused.

Little Tony had entered the chain locker through the tiny manhole
that led to it. The metallic sound as the lid slammed shut sounded
final somehow. The space was cramped for even his small body, and
he was enveloped by darkness. It was wet in there and very, very
scary. The chains of the ship's anchor took on the dimensions of a
monster. At one point a rat scuttled by him squealing. He was sure he
was going to die.

The thin strips of yellow paper coming from the telex machines,
like streamers of birthday party confetti, had been just too tempting.
It had been so boring and serious, with everyone working constantly;
but these strips of paper seemed to be enticing Tony to play. He put
them in his mouth and pretended they tasted sweet, like chewing
gum.

The Commodore (L.Ron Hubbard) had been outraged, and just the fact that this per-
son had a young body was in no way going to prevent him from ad-
ministering the appropriate penalty.

Little Tony was "out ethics," a "down stat" (someone who didn't
produce adequately for the group - or who produced bad products -
and, thus, had "down statistics").

In 1965 Hubbard had redefined the term "ethics." Being "ethical"
now meant, essentially, being "upstat."
"We award production and up statistics and penalize non-produc-
tion and down statistics. Always," wrote Hubbard, "reward the up
statistic and penalize the down..." (In Scientology a "down stat"
has no rights.)
According to their statistic each individual was assigned an "ethics
condition." Those assigned a low "condition" (below "normal") had to
work their way up through all those above."
"L. Ron. Hubbard: Messiah or Madman?" Page 23.

________________

"The chain locker was dangerous. Located at the very bow of the
ship under the water-line. It was the place where the section of the
chain not in the water was stored. When the entire chain was brought
up it filled most of this comparatively small, wet, dark, and some-
times rat-infested locker.
The only thing that was holding the chain in the locker was what is
called a devil's claw, which was located well above the locker on the
deck of the ship. If someone were to kick the claw, the entire chain
would be pulled at high speed out of the locker by the weight of the
anchor, and anyone down in the locker could very easily get caught in
the outgoing chain and be yanked to his death.
One crew member told of the devil's claw being loosened by acci-
dent while he was in the chain locker. He expressed his terror at com-
ing so close to dying. The chain "came alive" and gyrated around as it
was being pulled out at high speed while he crouched, frozen by fear,
as tightly as he could against the side of the locker. By some miracle
he was unhurt.
Sometimes children would peer down into the chain locker where
some other child had been assigned and teasingly threaten, "We're
going to kick the devil's claw!"
Tony's mother had left him in the care of another Sea Org woman
while she was gone on a "mission" to "raise the stats" of an ailing land
organization. When she returned she was shocked to discover that
her son had been placed in the chain locker.
She was "handled," however, with explanations about how "out
ethics" and "down stat" Tony had been. "He is really a very old
thetan [spirit] with a young body," she was told. "He should not be
permitted to use that young body to stir up sympathy. " (Interviewed
in 1986, five years after leaving the Church, she expressed bewilder-
ment as to how she could have accepted such explanations"
Ibid page 25

_____________________


"

Hubbard had ordered a little girl who was a deafmute down into the
chain locker sometime in 1968. Hubbard was going to cure her deaf-
ness by shoving her down there!
This came to my attention after she'd been there for about a week
because the Master at Arms at the time, a beautiful girl, came to me
and said, "John, I've got to have you come and see what's going on." I
had just come back from a world tour promoting Scientology.
And I said, "What is it" And she told me about this little girl. Her
parents were from London. Her father and mother had separated, and
the mother had brought three or four of her children onto the ship.
I went down there and released her out of it. I pulled out the door
pegs that were put down to make sure this poor little thing couldn't get
out.
Then I went to Hubbard and said, "What the hell are you doing?"
And he said, "John, what the hell are you talking about?"
And I said, "What are you really doing!" I was screaming at him.
And he said, "Oh God, release her. I didn't know she was in there "

Shortly thereafter, McMaster was made a galley hand and sub-
jected to extreme physical labor, lack of sleep, and other hardships.
"Hubbard wanted to break me," he said.
After he resigned from the Church of Scientology in late 1969, he
was officially "declared" a "suppressive person" or "S.P." (evil psy-
chotic) by Hubbard."
Ibid page 26

____________________

"John McMaster seriously bottom lined on the chain locker. Kids
would get locked up in there. To John's mind you don't take a four-
year-old and put him down in a hatch, and batten the hatch so he can't
get out. You don't terrorize a kid..
Hubbard used a "shotgun" (right-hand mall who did his bidding)
called Otto Roos. Otto and McMaster were very different....
There was a dude who had been slowly working out of "doubt." He
was a mellow, friendly, shy guy.
This was 1968.
You had to do 48 hours of non-stop amends in "doubt," at which
point you were upgraded to "liability." Then you'd have to do another
24 hours of non-stop amends - I'm talking about hard physical
labor - at which point you're upgraded to...non-existence."
You then have to do 12 more hours: with people all over your phys-
ical ass and your mental faculties. And as the person winds down, he
becomes more and more vulnerable. So it's a wild trip.
Anyway this was a kid who stuttered. Otto didn't like him.
I think he was about up to "non-existence" where he couldn't take it
any more. So he went to bed after three days. This isn't a guy's average
going to bed; when you hit horizontal you go out like a light!
Along about the second or third day, if you didn't continue in steady
physical motion, you pass out on your feet.
Anyway, Otto grabbed this kid out of an upper bunk in the middle of
a deep sleep, and body slammed him from five or six feet onto the
floor. He put a knife blade to his throat and started screaming he was
gonna kill him since he was a "down stat"!
Otto seriously freaked this kid out for life right there. I mean it
didn't help his stuttering at all! Some maniac with "upstat" braid, who
is Hubbard's right-hand shotgun, is going to slit your throat for being a
"downstat" - and all this instantly after having already been body
slammed from six feet up in the middle of a dead sleep."
Ibid page 27

_________________________________


"..the practice of"handling down stats" by placing them in the chain
locker, of hard physical labor used as punishment, of sleep depriva-
tion, of throwing them overboard while the ship was at dock, and the
other novel "ethics handlings" continued while the Commodore, and
therefore most of the crew, turned his attention to more important
matters.

There was, after all, "a planet to take."
"The planet is ours!" Hubbard had proclaimed.
"A Scientology planet!" was the rallying cry"
Ibid Page 31

________________________

"During one phase of the Apollo's voyage in 19Cill, "offenders" were
put into the air ducts below the engine room. In the high humidity,
with their own perspiration stinging in their eyes, they would chip
rust from the sides of the ducts with heavy short-handled hammers.
Enough light bulbs had been strung throughout the ducts so that
these inmates could see the rust they were removing.
They would continue at this at times for days, without sleep while
they crouched or sat and took turns keeping each other awake. (Any-
one falling asleep was detected by officers outside noticing the ham-
erring had stopped - would much prolong the ordeal for all.) They
sang little songs and told each other stories.


They were treated like criminals - even rats.
They would get their food delivered by way of buckets, lowered into
the ducts. This punishment lasted anywhere from 24 hours to, on a few
occasions, a couple of weeks.
Since they were not allowed out to use toilet facilities, drlct inmates
had to find some comer to relieve themsclves as best they could,
creating the stench of human excrement and fiint. throughout the
ducts."
Ibid Page 33.

______________________________

Wogs
"

The Scientologists in turn considered the locals ignorant "wogs."
This term was used 1,y the British, during their colonial days, to de-
scribe the Arabs of the Middle East. While considering Arabs the
scum of the earth, the British sarcastically called them "Worthy Ori-
ental Gentlemen," or wogs.
Hubbard took the term and altered its meaning to include all non-
Scientologists. So while the locals viewed the denizens of the Apollo
as strange, most of the Scientologists viewed them, and treated them
largely, as a vastly inferior species.
And all public disclaimers to the contrary, they viewed L. Ron
Hubbard as their own, in-residence God."


_________________

The Religion Business

Hubbard spoke...I don't recall his exact words; but, in effect, he
told us that writing science fiction for about a penny a word was no way
to make a living. If you really want to make a million, he said, the
quickest way is to start your own religion.


It sure worked for him. ..
Thousands paid the outrageous prices for the Scientology courses
and auditing. To give an idea of how much people are willing to pay in
today's money, here is an example of a price charged for auditing
taken from a recent official magazine from one of Hubbard's top or-
ganizations: Twelve and a half hour sections of a type of auditing
called "Lists 10, 11, and 12" are priced at $13,000.00 per section. In
other words, this auditing costs over $1000.00 per hour! And one
must buy a minimum of 25 hours!

One organization, the Flag Land Base - (was)
.. taking in up to two million dollars a week, and
averaging a million. "Flag," operated on 10 percent of its income,
with the remainder going to accounts controlled by "upper manage-
ment." According to accounts by Hubbard's former personal aides,
money - tens of millions originating from Europe for Flag services
were channelled into Hubbard's personal accounts.
" Ibid. page 44

Power

"One definition of magic is, "Total commitment to get, to achieve,
to win - with such totality that one's life itself becomes the ritual of
that commitment." (It has been noted that, when that commitment
"is malevolent, the magic is black.")
For Hubbard, morality was a straitjacket worn by fools. Morality
was utilized only when it aided him in reaching his objective. (He
gave lip service to all sorts of noble humanitarian sentiments, but he
also visibly, especially from the mid-sixties on, gave vent to base
motives expressed in vindictive policies and writings.)
His WILL was the supreme consideration.
This philosophy has been described as "the ends justify the
means." This vaguely says it all, but it describes neither the intensity
nor the total commitment which appears to have driven him.
His life was indeed a ritual of total commitment to the achievement
of power. Power concentrated exclusively under his control."
Ibid Page 48

"(On Hubbard's) ship Apollo, the law to be ad-
hered to was more like, "Do What Ron Wilt," the officers and crew
being subjected to the strictest of rigors, while Ron did as he pleased.
His will was supreme.
Robert Heinlein, a one-time friend of' Hubbard's, suggested this
well in a recent novel. He referred to his followers as "L. Ronners"
and "Hubbardites." Some ex-Scientologists use the term "Ron-
droids." The stable dictum for his followers is his written or spoken
intention: "Do WHAT RON SAYS"
Ibd Page 49

Drugs.

Hubbard, whose cult is openly opposed to the use of
recreational and psychiatric drugs was a heavy drug user.


"Could it be that Scientology's founder - publicly vehemently anti-
drug since the mid-1960s, and having written extensively since that
time on the harmful effects of drug use - was himself a heavy drug
user Was Ron Jr. telling the truth when he said that his father began
using drugs beginning in his teens...

Hubbard wrote in the revered "first book" Dianetics, the Modern
Science of Mental Health):

Opium is less harmful [than alcohol], marijuana is not only less phys-
ically harmful but also better in the action of keeping a neurotic
producing phenobarbital does not dull the senses nearly as much and
produces less after effect...

While few of his followers seem to be aware of the fact, in the same
book he recommends the use of Benzedrine in certain cases to over-
come the "reactive mind."
...........

I remember in 1952 in Philadelphia, while he, was taking a needle in
the arm, containing cocaine. He grinned at me, winked wryly and said,
"Shades of Sherlock Holmes"!
Dad gave a lot of his lectures on cocaine or stimulants of one kind or
another. He could really get brilliant on the stuff.

.........

Ron Jr. states in a sworn affidavit:

I have personal knowledge that my father regularly used illegal
drugs including amphetamines, barbiturates and hallucinogens. He
regularly used cocaine, peyote, and mescaline.*

According to statements made by attorney Michael Flynn,
Hubbard, until at least February of 1980, filled out fraudulent "doc-
tor's" prescriptions for a large array of medical drugs for himself

....

*Hubbard recommends as a "good book" Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception in his
"Operational Bulletin no. 17" of Feb '56. This work of Huxley's deals with his
experiences while experimenting with mescaline.

................

Other statements to the effect of massive self-medication are by
Gerry Armstrong (who was a witness to Hubbard's diary and other
documents), Sara Northrup Hubbard, and John McMaster, all of.
whom I interviewed.
Sara Hubbard explained that Hubbard was "self-medicated," but
that during the five years they were married, she knew of no in-
stances when he used "street drugs."
Armstrong, told me, among other things, of a letter from Hubbard
to his third wife Mary Sue when Hubbard was in Las Palmas during
1967 at the inception of the Sea Org. This letter is now in the custody
of the court. In it Hubbard tells his wife: "I'm drinking lots of rum
and popping pinks and greys."h
John McMasters told me that on the flagship Apollo in the late six-
ties, he witnessed Hubbard's drug supply. "It was the largest drug
chest I had ever seen. He had everything!"
It was shown in the Armstrong trial in Los Angeles in 1984 that
Hubbard even had blank prescription slips from the U.S. Navy, one of
which had a prescription for phenobarbital (a barbiturate and hyp-
notic) written in Hubbard's handwriting.
Also, in the Armstrong trial where the "Affirmations" were intro-
duced, a letter by Hubbard to his first wife was revealed, the last sen-
tence of which declared: "I do love you, even if I used to be an opium
addict. "

...........

If Hubbard was indeed a "druggie," his followers are not. While
many Scientologists appear to be nicotine and caffeine addicts, that is
as far as it goes.
Scientologists do not use drugs. And there is even a Scientology
anti-drug program-Narconon7 - originally established by an inmate
of Arizona State Prison named William Benitez

.............


In this context, Ron Jr.'s statement that his father "was not a
Scientologist," as startling as it may seem to some, begins to make
some sense:

He was not a Scientologist, and even said so publicly on several oc-
casions, but people would just slide over it.
For example, the wise and humanitarian sentiments expressed in his
writings and lectures had nothing to (to with him or how he conducted
his affairs. His private life was the antithesis of what he wanted his
public image to be. He hardly ever took his own advice.

It is possible, however, that Hubbard did follow the advice he gave
during a Philadelphia Doctorate Course lecture in December of
1952,** when he said:

You should be able to drink as much as you want, abuse the body in
any way you want.

In the same lecture series Hubbard said:

Just because I did something like Scientology people think I'm sup-
posed to he perfectly controlled, and a perfect gentleman. That's a
non-sequitur.

*Of course, from the mid-sixties onward what may have been the "real Hubbard"
began to show up, to some extent, in such things as the "Fair Game Law" and
sadistic "ethics." But such vindictive or destructive sentiments were kept very
"low profile."
**"My father was high during most of these lectures," claims Ron Jr. "and he
was, on occasion, very frank, revealing his true feelings." Not spotting this
material in time to edit it out before it became widely circulated was a major
blunder by
the Church."
Ibid. Pages 51-55

All Men Shall Be My Slaves.....L.Ron Hubbard

"All men shall be my slaves! All
women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my
feet and not know why!"
ibid. Page 53
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:05 PM   #58
hadaka_jimmy
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Stark raving fucking loony. With an eye for the dollar.

I can't believe anyone falls for this stuff, not that I think it's any more far fetched than Christianity, Islam or the Theosophists.

It's just more recent and we can safely say that RLH was a science fiction author and didn't walk on water or come back from the dead.
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:16 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaka_jimmy View Post
Stark raving fucking loony. With an eye for the dollar.

I can't believe anyone falls for this stuff, not that I think it's any more far fetched than Christianity, Islam or the Theosophists.

It's just more recent and we can safely say that RLH was a science fiction author and didn't walk on water or come back from the dead.
Yes, he was a science fiction author and didnt walk on water that I know, and didn't come back from the dead with the same body.

Now, Bent Coridon was a scientologist, the most money making mission Holder, and got very angry when the money was taken form him by Miscavige.

Looks like youre a nazi, I could denounce you for racism and criminal intent.

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Old 08-09-2011, 02:24 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luciferhorus View Post
L.RON HUBBARD

Messiah or Madman?

Bent Corydon and
L. Ron Hubbard, Jr.
(Nb. L. Ron Hubbard Jr. was L.Ron Hubbard's son)

Hey lucifer, you poll is wrong. It is as if somebody were to make a criticke of communist anarchists, saing that an anarchist can not be a communist because anarchy is no-government, and communist is total government, and I were to make a poll saing: Is Luciferhoris a communist? and so no anarchist, and the othre option: Is luciferHorus an anarchist, and so no communist?

No sense poll.

Vote.
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