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Old 02-01-2015, 03:50 PM   #5401
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Originally Posted by lacertus View Post
I had always been uneasy about the moral aspects of meat eating but was brainwashed into thinking that humans need to eat meat to be healthy.
You were not brainwashed into eating meat, you would have at some stage been fed it as a baby of which you happily consumed it. If only we could brainwash are kids into eating what we wanted them to! You eat it because it was a natural food for you to consume as a human, as your parents did and our ancestors before..
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:55 PM   #5402
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It's funny because you are what, 30, or maybe bit older? And here we have "Paleo gurus" like Mark Sisson who claim they get a buff look simply by eating meat and doing a bit of exercises.
[img]http://api.ning.com/files/VfG9WjQTNyHIsq9B6u7Lu5Tqq2S1s5xlMOxnATqTcUzwX2vOYE 7l1g60aAynSMNUFyH6pyc-ScFAhMU*rzQ4B4awExcDheyx/marksisson.jpg[/img]

You know yourself that's bullshit, Mark Sisson has admitted that there is nothing wrong with taking steroids for "health", just like another paleo follower Dave Asprey who has diabetes type 2 so has to take diabetic drugs and Provigil (a powerful cocaine-like drug) to keep him focused (yet he claims the butter coffee makes him focused, so why bother with the drug?)
Had to laugh about Dave Asprey lol, when I came across his butter in coffee, etc... I thought I had bad food concoxions, even when as a meat eater. Deffo a snakebutter saleman.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:08 PM   #5403
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You were not brainwashed into eating meat, you would have at some stage been fed it as a baby of which you happily consumed it. If only we could brainwash are kids into eating what we wanted them to! You eat it because it was a natural food for you to consume as a human, as your parents did and our ancestors before..
The brainwashing comes when children question their meat-eating activities and parents can't be arsed looking into the alternatives. Before that, they just feed meat to their kids like they are getting a baby hooked on heroin.

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Old 02-01-2015, 10:18 PM   #5404
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Had to laugh about Dave Asprey lol, when I came across his butter in coffee, etc... I thought I had bad food concoxions, even when as a meat eater. Deffo a snakebutter saleman.
Butter in tea and coffee has been around longer than Dave Asprey. ( who by the way does not have diabetes) Butter is made from cream, so not really as strange a concoction as you may think. it just taste like a very creamy coffee. I dont really like Dave Asprey but do love butter in my coffee. I only have one a day. :luv:
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:21 PM   #5405
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Macchoi you look like a big guy but you would look and perform even better if you went leaner on a low fat, high carb diet. Nothing wrong with the way you look but you look like most guys at the gym before they cut up using caffeine, steroids and starvation methods. Your body fat is too high.
It's also fine when you are younger, you're mid 30s? But if you give up doing gym, all those muscles will get coevered up by fat and eventually you will no longer look like a muscly big guy, but just a fat guy, some of my closest friends were going ape shit in the gym and looked liek you ,now they stop and have a stomach and excess weight.

Im not a huge guy and I dont want to be, I probably have 5% or less and can eat as much as I want and do at most 2-3 light exercise sessions a week. I dont lift anything heavier than 30 KGs and work mainly with my body.
Please PM me or post your recommended diet.
I'm definitely open to experimentation.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:24 PM   #5406
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The brainwashing comes when children question their meat-eating activities and parents can't be arsed looking into the alternatives. Before that, they just feed meat to their kids like they are getting a baby hooked on heroin.
WTF? They just give them meat in their diet.

My daughter said she wanted to be a vegetarian at age 9. So that is what she did, no fuss no bother. went out and bought some new pots, pans and utensils so nothing of hers ever had meat in. wasn't easy in those days sorting out replacements for her but we managed.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:28 PM   #5407
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I've got double the gut of allure and probably double his years on the clock, but I've acquitted myself well against 2 six-pack wielding young whippersnappers in the last 18mth. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, n that...
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:44 PM   #5408
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I have vegetarian family members so at one point I was around many vegan/ vegetarian people. Based on what I saw in the people, I have always had serious reservations about vegetarianism for myself and my children. My mother has been for maybe 30 years now and she's not exactly a beaming specimen of health. My niece finally gave it up for the first time in her life because it was making her ill.
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Old 02-01-2015, 10:54 PM   #5409
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If humans just ate the same amount of meat per week as a natural hunter tribe would get through, the amount of animal suffering on this planet would be reduced significantly.
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Old 03-01-2015, 03:32 AM   #5410
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So psilocybin, the only way I could get a 6 pack would be to either stop eating meat, or take steroids. Haha, yea, because the only people who have 6 packs are vegetarians or steroid users. What a joke. And I suppose you calling clenbuterol a steroid is just a typical example of your ignorance.

Also, I am an active guy, this week I've been cycling, walking in the hills and swimming in a nearby old quarry. (don't tell me, swimming in a quarry can be dangerous and if only I'd stop eating meat I could be smart enough not to do that right?)

I said I haven't properly worked out since April 2014, what I mean by that is that's the last time I had some sort of gym routine and was lifting weights.

You decided to equate that to meaning I'm a couch potato.

But you're right, I really could do with losing my unsightly gut:



My midriff is in such an unshapely mess.

Lets see your body then? Beyond your minuscule profile image that makes it look like you have no chest whatsoever and 2 pack abs.

And - http://authoritynutrition.com/top-9-...d-cholesterol/
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Old 03-01-2015, 06:49 AM   #5411
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And by 'no muscle tone' you obviously mean I have a normal body fat percentage.

I was a raw vegan in the past, and I had an extremely low body fat percentage, and eventually I felt so bad that not only did I start cooking again, I jumped all the way to eating meat again, and I'd been veg/vegan for many years before that.

In a way being a raw vegan was one of the best things I ever done, because it led me back to eating meat.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:18 PM   #5412
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And - authoritynutrition.com:
But it seems plausible that the low-fat recommendations made things worse because people started eating less of healthy foods like meat, butter and eggs, while eating more processed foods high in sugar and refined carbohydrates.
People have become fatter because of less physical activity and eating more calories. Have a look at the graphs in the following link. The average body mass index of nonvegetarians is 28.8. That of vegans is 23.6. Type 2 diabetes prevalence of nonveggies is 7.6%. Of vegans it is 2.9%.
http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/a...trends-disease

Americans eat fewer grains now than they did in 1909 and more meat and cheese. And more total fat. The grains that most people eat today are loaded with extra sugar and fat and are lower in fibre.

Quote:
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition May 2004 vol. 79 no. 5 774-779.

Increased consumption of refined carbohydrates and the epidemic of type 2 diabetes in the United States: an ecologic assessment

SOME EXCEPTS FROM THE STUDY:

The prevalence of adult obesity increased a staggering 57% in the brief period between 1991 and 1999, and currently > 60% of US adults are overweight

MY (VOTL) COMMENT: THE WAY OF DIAGNOSING DIABETES HAS CHANGED FROM TIME TO TIME. NO DATA FROM EARLY YEARS:

We obtained estimates of the prevalence of type 2 diabetes in the United States from the National Health Interview Surveys maintained by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Diabetes Surveillance System (4, 17). Such data are available for 1935 and then annually beginning in 1957 and are based on self-reports of having received a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes. In 1997, adoption of the type 2 diabetes diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization effectively increased the prevalence of type 2 diabetes in the United States after that year (18). We therefore excluded data from later than 1997. The diagnostic criteria for type 2 diabetes also changed in 1979 (19). However, the rate of increase in the prevalence of type 2 diabetes actually decreased somewhat from the previous 2 decades after this change in 1979, which suggested that the increase in prevalence of diabetes beyond 1979 was not an artifact of that change. Thus, these data were included in our analysis.


Dietary carbohydrate steadily decreased from 500 g/d in 1909 to 374 g/d in 1963, largely because of a decrease in the consumption of whole grains. Simultaneously, dietary fiber decreased at a greater rate—by nearly 40%. Since 1963, the consumption of carbohydrates steadily increased back to 500 g/d; however, fiber consumption did not increase proportionately. This finding reflects an increased consumption of refined carbohydrates over this time period (Figure 1⇓). From 1963 to 1997, the consumption of total fat increased nearly 30%, protein consumption increased 8%, and total energy consumption increased 9%.


Until 1980, the total energy intake remained relatively constant. Between 1980 and 1997, however, total energy intake increased by > 500 kcal/d. This increase was due primarily to increases in dietary carbohydrate. Specifically, 428 kcal (nearly 80% of the increase in total energy) came from carbohydrates, 64 kcal (12% of the increase in total energy) came from protein, and only 45 kcal (8% of the increase in total energy) came from fat. This represents a relative increase in consumption of dietary carbohydrates from 48% to 54% of total energy intake over a 20-y period and a relative decrease in dietary fat from 41% to 37% of total energy intake. During the same period, the prevalence of type 2 diabetes increased by 47% and the prevalence of obesity increased by 80%, indicating a significant positive correlation between the percentage of energy from refined carbohydrates and the prevalence of type 2 diabetes and obesity.


Our analysis confirmed that during the past century, especially the past 20 y, the American diet has undergone a dramatic change. Furthermore, our data indicate that, during the same period, type 2 diabetes has reached epidemic proportions, exerting a substantial health burden on society. These population-level data are consistent with findings from metabolic and prospective studies of individual persons, which suggest that the intake of refined carbohydrates increases the risk of obesity, glucose intolerance, dyslipidemia, and type 2 diabetes. The risk of type 2 diabetes may be reduced by replacing refined carbohydrates with low-GI carbohydrate sources and whole-grain, high-fiber products. Further prospective randomized trials are necessary to determine the absolute effect of such an intervention.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/774.full
If people ate whole grains they would not be so fat. People today are fatter because they eat more calories and eat less fibre.
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Old 03-01-2015, 01:20 PM   #5413
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I posted that to refute the idea what cholesterol is some sort of devil to be avoided or 'clogs arteries'.

Also, that article supposes that the since debunked cholesterol scare added to the rate of obesity, not that it's out and out responsible.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:50 PM   #5414
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It is better not to eat cholesterol or saturated fat. We make our own. They can cause disease:

Quote:
Current Atherosclersosi Reports. 2007 Jan;9(1):57-63.

Modifying the anti-inflammatory effects of high-density lipoprotein.

Ansell BJ1, Fonarow GC, Navab M, Fogelman AM.

Abstract

The anti-inflammatory effects of high-density lipoproteins (HDL) are well documented and include inhibition of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) oxidation, reduction of inflammatory cytokines and vascular leukocyte adhesion molecules, and participation in innate immunity. However, certain conditions, including coronary disease, diabetes mellitus, systemic inflammation, and a diet high in saturated fat, are associated with modification of HDL such that it paradoxically enhances LDL oxidation and/or vascular inflammation. Treatment with statins and/or apolipoprotein A1 mimetic peptides improves HDL's anti-inflammatory functions, and these as well as other medications may represent a novel pathway through which to target atherosclerosis.

PMID: 17169248
In people with rheumatoid arthritis (and other conditions with systemic inflammation and oxidative stress) the inflammatory processes that cause the symptoms can turn HDL into an agent that causes atherosclerosis.

See: World Journal of Orthopedics. 2014 Jul 18;5(3):304-11.
Inflammation, lipid metabolism and cardiovascular risk in rheumatoid arthritis: A qualitative relationship?
http://www.wjgnet.com/2218-5836/full/v5/i3/304.htm
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:33 PM   #5415
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And by 'no muscle tone' you obviously mean I have a normal body fat percentage.

I was a raw vegan in the past, and I had an extremely low body fat percentage, and eventually I felt so bad that not only did I start cooking again, I jumped all the way to eating meat again, and I'd been veg/vegan for many years before that.

In a way being a raw vegan was one of the best things I ever done, because it led me back to eating meat.
Having no muscle tone means you are skinny with no muscles showing, in other words, you are not athletic.

Raw vegan? Well there is your mistake. What foods did you eat? Bunch of kale, cold pressed olive oil dressing and a cucumber for lunch? You would have ZERO energy or desire for life under those calories. To be a raw vegan you would need to be smashing bucket loads of ripe and sugary fruits and mountains of salads, greens, seeds and nuts. if you under eat on a raw vegan diet, you are going to have an energy of a snail.

This is why it's best to combine raw fruits and vegetables with cooked, high carb, low fat starches like rice and potatoes. Bowls of rice and potatoes will fill you right up, make you feel awesome and you will have sustained energy to burn for many hours. This is why "raw till 4" lifestyle works great for me. I laugh my phucking bum off when I read that sugar and carbs amke you fat, I should be morbidly obese right now!!!!!!!!

I start the day with unlimited amount of raw fruits and veg (high calorie like dates and bananas), very easy to eat 5-20 bananas within 2-3 hours. And come dinner time I have some vegan Thai curry with rice, potatoes and other cooked veg and raw salad on the side. Often I feel like my belly will pop from so much food, but then the next day I am back to a washing board stomach and no weight gain in a form of fat. I also love Asian bubble cup drinks, lollies and even fried chips sometimes.

You did the right thing by going vegan, but should of stuck to a mixture of cooked combined with raw plant based foods. Eating meat gives you that instant feeling of being full, it's easy to fill up on it, but it's like a credit card, you'll pay for it later on, with interest in a form of heart disease.

Dr Caldwell Esselstyn and T Colin Campbell are not idiots or snake oils men, they look fanstastic in their 80s both mentally and physically and I will trust their word over con men and a self confessed drug addict like Dave Aspry, a fat Robert Lustig, Mark "Steroids" Sisson, and dead and fat Dr Robert Atkins. Not to mention the fat Sally Fallon.
I am not sure who your gurus are, but mine are a beacon of health and vitality way beyond 80 yo. And please dont start mentioning some Eskimo tribes who ate artic berries, stomach contents of fish and deer and lived beyond 100, 200 years ago before white men "ruined" their diet.

I will post more photos later on dude, been a busy day.

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Old 04-01-2015, 03:28 PM   #5416
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Stop making assumptions.

As a raw vegan, my diet was typically a banana and date smoothie, plus 2/3 apples and oranges for breakfast.

Melons and/or mangoes for lunch.

And a massive salad with an avocado/nut dressing.

I was getting 3000+ calories per day.

Oh so it is best to combine raw fruits/veg with cooked now is it? Well I suppose you've only been a durianrider-phile for about a year.

You won't remember when myself, and many others were banned and had our discussions deleted from his forum for talking about eating a cooked vegan meal at night because we were not feeling great or doing well on his prescribed 100% raw diet.

And I have no muscle showing?

I'm at about 10% body fat, the ONLY reason you cannot see my abs is because I don't exercise them.

You honestly think I need to lose fat around my waist? What?

I have more muscle than you, absolutely no question about it going by your pic.

And being able to see muscle definition or 'muscle tone' is to do with body fat percentage.

You look probably about 7% body fat, and if you were 10% body fat, your body wouldn't look like mine, you would look like nothing, no muscle whatsoever would be visible.

And for longevity, my body fat percentage is more ideal than yours.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:00 PM   #5417
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And when it comes to diet, I do not have any gurus, been there and done that, I now know myself what is right for me, I am absolutely not paleo, not even close.

I spent years experimenting.

Today was a very typical day, and I had...

Vegetable omelette with toasted rye and plenty of butter. Then a banana and some melon.

Rice with chicken, herbs and a spicy chilli sauce, a cup of bone broth, and a vegetable juice.

Spaghetti with minced pork in a tomato and herb sauce.

I've just now been having tortilla chips with guacamole.

Nothing from a packet, even the tortilla chips were freshly cooked.

My breakfast and lunch rarely changes much, I would have the same main meal most days, just vary the breakfast fruits and lunch vegetable juice.

Dinner could be anything, usually a Thai dish, a Northern Thai pork belly curry is a favourite I'd have often, perhaps once a week a platter of mexican food (and I eat vegetarian when I eat mexican), sometimes a steak with greens and potatoes. Sometimes I might get a pizza, or a load of sushi.

Basically anything I want at dinner.

I'm sure you will criticise eating like this, but I operate better eating this way than I did eating the way you do.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:57 PM   #5418
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Having no muscle tone means you are skinny with no muscles showing, in other words, you are not athletic.

Raw vegan? Well there is your mistake. What foods did you eat? Bunch of kale, cold pressed olive oil dressing and a cucumber for lunch? You would have ZERO energy or desire for life under those calories. To be a raw vegan you would need to be smashing bucket loads of ripe and sugary fruits and mountains of salads, greens, seeds and nuts. if you under eat on a raw vegan diet, you are going to have an energy of a snail.

This is why it's best to combine raw fruits and vegetables with cooked, high carb, low fat starches like rice and potatoes. Bowls of rice and potatoes will fill you right up, make you feel awesome and you will have sustained energy to burn for many hours. This is why "raw till 4" lifestyle works great for me. I laugh my phucking bum off when I read that sugar and carbs amke you fat, I should be morbidly obese right now!!!!!!!!

I start the day with unlimited amount of raw fruits and veg (high calorie like dates and bananas), very easy to eat 5-20 bananas within 2-3 hours. And come dinner time I have some vegan Thai curry with rice, potatoes and other cooked veg and raw salad on the side. Often I feel like my belly will pop from so much food, but then the next day I am back to a washing board stomach and no weight gain in a form of fat. I also love Asian bubble cup drinks, lollies and even fried chips sometimes.

You did the right thing by going vegan, but should of stuck to a mixture of cooked combined with raw plant based foods. Eating meat gives you that instant feeling of being full, it's easy to fill up on it, but it's like a credit card, you'll pay for it later on, with interest in a form of heart disease.

Dr Caldwell Esselstyn and T Colin Campbell are not idiots or snake oils men, they look fanstastic in their 80s both mentally and physically and I will trust their word over con men and a self confessed drug addict like Dave Aspry, a fat Robert Lustig, Mark "Steroids" Sisson, and dead and fat Dr Robert Atkins. Not to mention the fat Sally Fallon.
I am not sure who your gurus are, but mine are a beacon of health and vitality way beyond 80 yo. And please dont start mentioning some Eskimo tribes who ate artic berries, stomach contents of fish and deer and lived beyond 100, 200 years ago before white men "ruined" their diet.

I will post more photos later on dude, been a busy day.
You seem to just be repeating what you've heard on Durianrider videos, not just what you say but also how you say it. Neither him or his GF are beacons of good health. According to DR, having a six pack and running a 10k is all you need to do to be healthy, which is BS. A persons attitude is far more fitting of how healthy they are than merely their physique. DR and his woman spend far too much time bitching about other people that I don't take them seriously any more. When you're truly healthy, you will be free of such spite and bitterness. Then there's the death threats he's sent to other people but hey all good fun.
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Old 05-01-2015, 02:54 PM   #5419
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You seem to just be repeating what you've heard on Durianrider videos, not just what you say but also how you say it. Neither him or his GF are beacons of good health. According to DR, having a six pack and running a 10k is all you need to do to be healthy, which is BS. A persons attitude is far more fitting of how healthy they are than merely their physique. DR and his woman spend far too much time bitching about other people that I don't take them seriously any more. When you're truly healthy, you will be free of such spite and bitterness. Then there's the death threats he's sent to other people but hey all good fun.
Dont know about that, Durianrider and Freelee manage to post dozens of videos every week, have enough time to go bike riding, eat tonnes of fresh raw, organic produce, travel to Asia a few times a year and live the ultimate dream thats ideal to them. I am pretty sure they are healthy to have that much energy in a day.

I've met Durianrider last year in July in Thailand and he was one chilled out guy, willing to chat one on one, selling nothing, promoting nothing but an active lifestyle, tasty tropical fruits, Vegan Thai food and offering ideas how to get away from the rat race.

He also looked fit and lean as an athlete, riding and running and then doing fruit market tours and "Meet and greet with long Q&A sessions, pretty good for a bloke who is around 40.

You really should meet him and Freelee before making random attacks that cause nothing but dividing vegans.

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Old 05-01-2015, 02:55 PM   #5420
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Allure how old are you?
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