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Old 31-05-2014, 05:25 PM   #4601
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As usual Science is catching up with what we have been told from the very beginning



Amazing new discoveries in Science has confirmed that that old adage "we are what we eat" is true:



They also offered that their results may explain why those who consume a greater variety of edible plants are healthier:



http://themindunleashed.org/2014/05/...e-healing.html

CONCLUSION:




http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24842810/

Basically what is being said is that eating a [plant based diet enables a cross communication between plant and mammalian cells which is beneficial for health.

There you have it folks, confirmation of why a vegetarian diet is healthy and the science behind it.

As usual, science catches up with religion!

Fantastic news
completely ignored?

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Old 31-05-2014, 07:14 PM   #4602
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completely ignored?

Co-evolution in action. We selectively breed what we eat, changing the genetic makeup of the plants we eat, which in turn, help shape the genetic makeup of ourselves.

But the article you have linked has it's own vegan agenda, which comes across clear in its writing. It is not an unbiased source.

It says this:

Quote:
Deregulation of plant-derived diet regulated host cell homeostasis leads to increased susceptibility to infections, chronic inflammatory bowel diseases, and cancer
Without and source or references. And that sentence itself is unclear. It gives the impression of saying eating meat causes infections, chronic inflammatory bowel diseases, and cancer, none of which is true. Maybe it's saying that if you ONLY eat meat, that could happen? It's being disingenuous in its approach either way.
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Old 31-05-2014, 09:46 PM   #4603
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completely ignored?

When you see a turd on a public sidewalk, you don't actually ignore it. You see it, but you walk around it, and move on.
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Old 01-06-2014, 02:59 AM   #4604
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IGF-1 levels not a useful marker for prostate cancer:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10368242

No link between prostate cancer and IGF-1:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12873996

IGF-1 levels show a correlation to only some form of breast cancer (some forms proved no correlation at all) and not in those diagnosed below 50 years old:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24248481

(and we all know correlation does not imply causation)

Giving animals with tumors direct injection of IGF-1 has no effect on tumor proliferation or growth:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7885190

High cholesterol associated with longer life:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21296318

Declining cholesterol a marker for death:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8537587

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...689928651?np=y

17 year study shows low cholesterol associated with poor health:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21254906

High cholesterol diet lowers LDL (bad cholesterol) and reduces fat gain:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15164336

--

Now am I saying go out and inject all the IGF-1 you can and stuff yourself full of meat?

NO!

What I advocate is a balanced organic diet with as much variety as possible. And if something makes you feel like shit (for example veganism/vegetarianism when I did that), then try something different.

You see, I'm not in here telling you how you should eat, I'm in here to merely stand up for the fact that how I chose to eat isn't as unhealthy as vegans/vegetarians delude themselves into believing.

And to point out that vegan and vegetarian diets, are far from optimal in many, many cases.
Most of the studies look at total cholesterol, they don't say anything about the ratio between LDL and HDL, one looks at HDL (the good kind) and shows ''higher HDL cholesterol levels were significantly associated with survival to 85 years of age'' even though this is still one study.

IGF1 is not a useful marker as the PSA and others test are better. Trying to link IGF1 levels directly to prostate cancer would be very hard if not impossible but many studies show it increases the risk but so do many things. The IGFs and IGF-IR function to promote proliferation, inhibit death and stimulate transformation in breast cancer cells. Besides their mitogenic ability, IGFs also mediate several other responses. IGFs protect breast cancer cells from apoptosis and promote survival (Rubin&Baserga 1995). IGFs provide radioprotection and resistance of breast cancer cells to chemotherapeutic agents (Dunn et al. 1997, Gooch et al. 1999). Apoptosis is known to be the major mechanism by which chemotherapeutic agents and radiation kill cancer cells. Since increased IGF-IR expression is associated with breast cancer, IGF can cause both the growth and resistance of breast cancer cells to chemotherapy and radiation therapy (80% of breast cancer is in women over the age of 50). Insulin-like growth factor (IGF-1) is a natural human growth hormone instrumental in normal growth during childhood, but in adulthood can promote abnormal growth—the proliferation, spread (metastasis), and invasion of cancer. So why would anyone want to increase their levels of this by eating meat and drinking milk
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:06 AM   #4605
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Most people are aware of the connections between red and processed meats and cancer — that there is convincing evidence that these dangerous foods are a cause of colon cancer.1 In addition, cooking any meat at high temperatures (for example, grilled or fried chicken) forms carcinogenic compounds such as heterocyclic amines, which contribute to cancer risk.2,3 However, animal foods such as non-fat dairy products, egg whites, and fish are considered healthful by most people. It is not yet widely recognized that foods such as these, since they are so high in animal protein, can also contribute to increased cancer risk.

When we consume animal protein, the body increases its production of a hormone called IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1). IGF-1 is one of the body’s important growth promoters during fetal and childhood growth, but later in life IGF-1 promotes the aging process. Reduced IGF-1 signaling in adulthood is associated with reduced oxidative stress, decreased inflammation, enhanced insulin sensitivity and longer lifespan.4 In contrast, IGF-1 has been shown to promote the growth, proliferation and spread of cancer cells, and elevated IGF-1 levels are linked to increased risk of several cancers, colon cancer included.5-8 Several observational studies have suggested that high circulating IGF-1 may translate into promotion of tumor growth in the colon. For example, one study in men and another in women found that those with higher levels of IGF-1 had double the risk of colorectal cancers compared to those with lower levels.9,10

Which foods raise IGF-1?
Since the primary dietary factor that determines IGF-1 levels is animal protein, the excessive meat, fowl, seafood, and dairy intake common in our society elevates circulating IGF-1. Refined carbohydrates, like white flour, white rice, and sugars can also raise IGF-1 levels, because they cause rapid increases in insulin levels, leading to increases in IGF-1 signaling. In fact, IGF-1 signaling is thought to be a major factor in the connection between diabetes and cancer.11,12

It is the amino acid distribution of animal protein that sparks IGF-1 production.13 For this reason, isolated soy protein, found in protein powders and meat substitutes, may also be problematic because the protein is unnaturally concentrated and its amino acid profile is very similar to that of animal protein.

How can we keep IGF-1 in a safe range?
Reducing IGF-1 levels by dietary methods is now considered by many scientists to be an effective cancer prevention measure. Minimizing or avoiding animal protein, isolated soy protein and refined carbohydrates can help to keep our IGF-1 levels in a safe range. Green vegetables, beans and other legumes, and seeds are rich in plant protein and they have cancer-preventive, not cancer-promoting properties. For optimal cancer protection, vegetables, beans, fruits, nuts and seeds should comprise the vast majority of our calories.



References:
1. Continuous Update Project Interim Report Summary. Food, Nutrition, Physical Activity, and the Prevention of Colorectal Cancer. World Cancer Research Fund / American Institute for Cancer Research.; 2011.
2. Thomson B: Heterocyclic amine levels in cooked meat and the implication for New Zealanders. Eur J Cancer Prev 1999;8:201-206.
3. Zheng W, Lee S-A: Well-Done Meat Intake, Heterocyclic Amine Exposure, and Cancer Risk. Nutr Cancer 2009;61:437-446.
4. Bartke A: Minireview: role of the growth hormone/insulin-like growth factor system in mammalian aging. Endocrinology 2005;146:3718-3723.
5. Chitnis MM, Yuen JS, Protheroe AS, et al: The type 1 insulin-like growth factor receptor pathway. Clin Cancer Res 2008;14:6364-6370.
6. Werner H, Bruchim I: The insulin-like growth factor-I receptor as an oncogene. Arch Physiol Biochem 2009;115:58-71.
7. Davies M, Gupta S, Goldspink G, et al: The insulin-like growth factor system and colorectal cancer: clinical and experimental evidence. Int J Colorectal Dis 2006;21:201-208.
8. Sandhu MS, Dunger DB, Giovannucci EL: Insulin, insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), IGF binding proteins, their biologic interactions, and colorectal cancer. J Natl Cancer Inst 2002;94:972-980.
9. Ma J, Pollak MN, Giovannucci E, et al: Prospective study of colorectal cancer risk in men and plasma levels of insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-I and IGF-binding protein-3. J Natl Cancer Inst 1999;91:620-625.
10. Giovannucci E, Pollak MN, Platz EA, et al: A prospective study of plasma insulin-like growth factor-1 and binding protein-3 and risk of colorectal neoplasia in women. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2000;9:345-349.
11. Cannata D, Fierz Y, Vijayakumar A, et al: Type 2 diabetes and cancer: what is the connection? Mt Sinai J Med 2010;77:197-213.
12. Venkateswaran V, Haddad AQ, Fleshner NE, et al: Association of diet-induced hyperinsulinemia with accelerated growth of prostate cancer (LNCaP) xenografts. J Natl Cancer Inst 2007;99:1793-1800.
13. Thissen JP, Ketelslegers JM, Underwood LE: Nutritional regulation of the insulin-like growth factors. Endocr Rev 1994;15:80-101.


The IGF signaling pathway has a pathogenic role in cancer. Studies have shown that decreased levels of IGF lead to decreased growth of existing cancer cells.[23] People with Laron syndrome have also recently been shown to be of much less risk to develop cancer.[24] Dietary interventions and modifications such as vegan diets shown to down regulate IGF-1 activity, has been associated with lower risk of cancer.[25]
Arnaldez FI, Helman LJ (June 2012). "Targeting the insulin growth factor receptor 1". Hematol. Oncol. Clin. North Am. 26 (3): 527–42, vii–viii. doi:10.1016/j.hoc.2012.01.004. PMC 3334849. PMID 22520978
Gallagher EJ, LeRoith D (April 2011). "Is growth hormone resistance/IGF-1 reduction good for you?". Cell Metab. 13 (4): 355–6. doi:10.1016/j.cmet.2011.03.003. PMID 21459318
McCarty, M. F. "Vegan proteins may reduce risk of cancer, obesity, and cardiovascular disease by promoting increased glucagon activity." Medical hypotheses 53.6 (1999): 459-485
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:07 AM   #4606
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Low Protein Intake Is Associated with a Major Reduction in IGF-1, Cancer, and Overall Mortality in the 65 and Younger but Not Older Population
Highlights

•High protein intake is linked to increased cancer, diabetes, and overall mortality
•High IGF-1 levels increased the relationship between mortality and high protein
•Higher protein consumption may be protective for older adults
•Plant-derived proteins are associated with lower mortality than animal-derived proteins

Summary

Mice and humans with growth hormone receptor/IGF-1 deficiencies display major reductions in age-related diseases. Because protein restriction reduces GHR-IGF-1 activity, we examined links between protein intake and mortality. Respondents aged 50–65 reporting high protein intake had a 75% increase in overall mortality and a 4-fold increase in cancer death risk during the following 18 years. These associations were either abolished or attenuated if the proteins were plant derived. Conversely, high protein intake was associated with reduced cancer and overall mortality in respondents over 65, but a 5-fold increase in diabetes mortality across all ages. Mouse studies confirmed the effect of high protein intake and GHR-IGF-1 signaling on the incidence and progression of breast and melanoma tumors, but also the detrimental effects of a low protein diet in the very old. These results suggest that low protein intake during middle age followed by moderate to high protein consumption in old adults may optimize healthspan and longevity.
http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/...131(14)00062-X

High levels of a well-known growth factor significantly increase the risks of colorectal, breast, and prostate cancer, medical researchers have found.

At the same time, they determined that a protein that binds to the growth factor seems to neutralize it and reduce the risk of these malignancies, which are three of the four biggest cancer killers in the United States.

"If further studies confirm these findings, blood levels of the growth factor and its binding protein might be used to identify people at the highest risk for these cancers and, therefore, who might benefit most from lifestyle changes and other means of prevention," says Jing Ma, an instructor in medicine at Harvard Medical School. Also, future work on the binding protein could lead to new drugs for treating colorectal, breast, and prostate tumors in their earliest stages.


The growth factor, known as insulin-like growth factor-1, or IGF- 1, is necessary for proper growth in children, but studies of men and women more than 40 years old raise the possibility that it contributes to the growth of tumors. These studies were conducted at Channing Laboratory in Boston, a joint facility of Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, and at the Harvard School of Public Health.


Last week, the researchers announced that, in a six-year study of 32,826 nurses, those with the highest levels of IGF-1 had a two-and- a-half times greater risk of colorectal cancer. High levels of IGF binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) produced the opposite effect.

The week before, another group from the same laboratory reported in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute that a study of 14,916 male physicians concluded that men run the same risk. In the case of those with the highest IGF-1 and lowest IGFBP-3, the relative risk of colorectal cancer rose fourfold, after accounting for differences in weight, height, alcohol intake, and other known risk factors.

"The fact that these two large studies give the same results for both men and women increases our confidence in the findings," notes Edward Giovannucci, an assistant professor of medicine who led the nurses' study. Giovannucci is also assistant professor in the Department of Nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health.

Last year, data from the investigation of male physicians also showed that men with the highest levels of IGF-1 had more than four times the risk of prostate cancer than those with the lowest levels.

Another Channing Laboratory team concluded that premenopausal women with high IGF-1 levels have more than double the relative risk of breast cancer. Younger women are at greatest risk. This team was led by Susan Hankinson, an assistant professor of epidemiology at the School of Public Health and an assistant professor of medicine at the Medical School.

In all these studies, blood samples were collected from 32,826 nurses and 14,916 physicians between 1982 and 1990. None of these people had cancer at the time. They were then followed by questionnaires for 6 to 14 years. Those who developed cancer were then matched by age and smoking frequency with those who stayed cancer-free, and their blood levels of IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 were compared.

Slowing Aging

These results raise concern about attempts to slow aging in older people by giving them growth hormone to increase their IGF-1. Since levels of both substances decrease with age, some observers suggest that injections of the hormone may counter several effects of getting old.

In one study, 12 men, 61 to 81 years old, were given growth hormone three times a week. After six months, their blood showed levels of growth hormone similar to those in men 10 to 20 years younger. They achieved increases in muscle mass and skin thickness and decreases in body fat compared to a matched group who didn't take the hormone.

A subsequent study of 27 women, 62 to 82 years old, who took the hormone showed a decrease in fat and some protection against bone loss.

These results caused a torrent of media reports suggesting that science had found away to stall, even reverse, some degenerative changes of aging.

"We would advise healthy people not to take the hormone," Ma says. "Our studies raise concern that giving it over long periods will increase the risk of prostate and colorectal cancers." Other researchers have found a lack of gain in muscle strength and physical performance despite the increase in muscle mass and decrease in fat.

"We've not shown directly that the hormone is harmful," Giovannucci adds. "Potentially, there could be some benefit from giving it to people with a growth-hormone deficiency. But people should understand that there's a risk involved, and proceed cautiously."

Too Much Growth

"There's good biological rationale for the associations we found," Giovannucci says. When IGF-1 is added to dishes of cells growing in the laboratory, the cells flourish like flowers blooming in spring. In children, the hormone stimulates bone growth and development of organs such as the heart, liver, and kidneys. But in older people, rapidly proliferating cells increase the opportunity for genetic mutations that may lead to cancer. And once cancer cells begin to form, IGF-1 will promote their growth as well as that of normal cells.

Ma mentions evidence of a connection between colorectal cancer and acromegaly, a condition that causes enlargement of facial features, hands, and feet due to excess secretion of growth hormone. "The rate of colorectal cancer among acromegalics is abnormally high, because their IGF-1 levels can be up to 10-fold higher that those of normal people," she notes.

"The levels of IGF-1 implicated in increased risks for cancer among middle-aged and older nurses and physicians in our studies are not as high as those in acromegalics or abnormally tall people," Giovannucci explains. "Rather they are at the high end of what we would consider a normal range."

IGF-1 is a major determinant of height, and taller people are at higher risk for colorectal, breast, and prostate cancer, according to Ma. "It is possible that people who grow tall, because of higher levels of IGF-1 in childhood and adolescence, have a high risk of cancer in adulthood," Giovannucci points out. "However, someone who retains high levels of the hormone from childhood through middle age might be at even higher risk."

Levels of IGF-1 drop when people eat less. Animal studies show that decreases in food intake lessen tumor growth and increase life span, Ma and Giovannucci agree. "However, it's too early to make specific recommendations about restricting calories on the basis of our results," Ma cautions.

It's also too early to determine if a test based on blood levels of IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 will predict who will get colorectal, prostate, or breast cancer. The findings of the Harvard researchers must be confirmed by additional large studies.

Meanwhile, drug companies and other research teams are exploring the feasibility of designing new cancer drugs based on the activity of IGF-1 and IGFBP-3.

Giovannucci, Ma, and their colleagues are now investigating the role of diet, physical activity, alcohol consumption, and other possible determinants of high IGF-1 and low IGFBP-3 levels. "It might be possible to adjust these levels and lower cancer risks with lifestyle changes that are not too drastic," Ma speculates.

"We're also looking at genes that might control levels of the growth factor and its binding protein," notes Giovannucci. "People found to possess a genetic predisposition to IGF-1- related cancers could be closely monitored and, perhaps, pretreated with lifestyle changes and new drugs."
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...gf1.story.html
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:07 AM   #4607
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IGF-1 exerts powerful effects on each of the key stages of cancer development and behaviour: cellular proliferation and apoptosis, angiogenesis and metastasis, and more recently, development of resistance to chemotherapeutic agents. It is a potent proliferative agent affecting almost every cell type, an effect predominantly, although not exclusively, mediated via the mitogen-activated protein (MAP) kinase signalling pathway. In addition to these proliferative actions, IGF-1 is also a powerful antiapoptotic agent influencing the apoptotic responses to a variety of agents of numerous cell types. These antiapoptotic actions tend to be mediated via the PI-3 kinase pathway, although this is again not exclusive, and there is considerable cross-talk between the two predominant signalling pathways. The end results of these opposing effects of IGF-1 may be several-fold. First, there is increased proliferation and thus epithelial cell turnover within tissues. Second, the antiapoptotic effects cause an imbalance in the usual tight control between proliferation and cell death and result in hyperproliferation. This is the first stage in the development of many cancers and has been particularly well demonstrated in colorectal tumorigenesis in which it precedes the formation of colonic adenomas. Third, such an imbalance between cell proliferation and death would favour, even slightly, survival of stem cells that had undergone early genetic 'hits'. This would increase the pool of damaged cells available for second and subsequent hits. Higher levels of IGF-1 would be expected to activate survival pathways that would make programmed cell death of damaged cells slightly less probable. When applied overall to a large number of 'at risk' cells over many years, even a small influence in favour of survival of such cells could accelerate carcinogenesis, although not initiate cancer development per se. Convincing experimental data suggest that the GH/IGF-1 axis plays an important role in cancer development and behaviour. Epidemiological studies have supported an association with cancer, but not with tumour induction per se
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:57 AM   #4608
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by allure View Post
Co-evolution in action. We selectively breed what we eat, changing the genetic makeup of the plants we eat, which in turn, help shape the genetic makeup of ourselves.
You could read that into it, although in no way do I see that as the main point.

The main point is that plants are designed to keep us healthy


Quote:
But the article you have linked has it's own vegan agenda, which comes across clear in its writing. It is not an unbiased source.

Without and source or references. And that sentence itself is unclear. It gives the impression of saying eating meat causes infections, chronic inflammatory bowel diseases, and cancer, none of which is true. Maybe it's saying that if you ONLY eat meat, that could happen? It's being disingenuous in its approach either way.
Vegan agenda?

It is a Scientific study that has found that plants are designed to keep us healthy and have an almost symbiotic relationship with us.

In no way is meat referenced whatsoever, you are just being very defensive because it cuts to the core of your argument.

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Old 01-06-2014, 06:59 AM   #4609
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Originally Posted by fishin43diqs View Post
When you see a turd on a public sidewalk, you don't actually ignore it. You see it, but you walk around it, and move on.
Hilarious.

Science tells us what is blatantly obvious to anybody with a rational mind.

That plants are designed to keep us healthy.

And you say it is a turd to be ignored.

Priceless, absolutely priceless.
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Old 01-06-2014, 01:20 PM   #4610
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Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
Hilarious.

Science tells us what is blatantly obvious to anybody with a rational mind.

That plants are designed to keep us healthy.

And you say it is a turd to be ignored.

Priceless, absolutely priceless.
What has fishin got against turds? Turds feed the grass and plants and keep the cycle of life going hehe.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:44 PM   #4611
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[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062114968]
Quote:
Vegan agenda?

It is a Scientific study that has found that plants are designed to keep us healthy and have an almost symbiotic relationship with us.

In no way is meat referenced whatsoever, you are just being very defensive because it cuts to the core of your argument.

No that article is not a scientific study, it is a biased article which links to a scientific study.

And in my other comment I was talking about a specific quote from that article, you should have known that by the fact that I had put it in forum quotations, again...

Quote:
Deregulation of plant-derived diet regulated host cell homeostasis leads to increased susceptibility to infections, chronic inflammatory bowel diseases, and cancer
Perhaps I misunderstood it, being as it is disgustingly verbose and unclear in its meaning.

Does it mean, if you don't eat any fruits or vegetables you increase susceptibility to infections, chronic inflammatory bowel diseases, and cancer?

Okay.



Now. How does this cut to the core of my argument?

My position is you can be and remain optimally healthy while eating a diet that includes animal based food.

How has that position been cut to the core anywhere, ever?
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:05 PM   #4612
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Also, for me personally, I am unable to remain optimally healthy while eating a diet that excludes animal based food.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:48 AM   #4613
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by allure View Post

No that article is not a scientific study, it is a biased article which links to a scientific study.

You are being pedantic, I linked the article and the study.


Quote:
And in my other comment I was talking about a specific quote from that article, you should have known that by the fact that I had put it in forum quotations, again...
Yes I know, I don't see your point.

Quote:
Perhaps I misunderstood it, being as it is disgustingly verbose and unclear in its meaning.

Does it mean, if you don't eat any fruits or vegetables you increase susceptibility to infections, chronic inflammatory bowel diseases, and cancer?

Yes, that is exactly what it means, but it gives you the science of why it is like this.

Maybe you missed this part?


Quote:
Now. How does this cut to the core of my argument?

My position is you can be and remain optimally healthy while eating a diet that includes animal based food.
The article in no way mentioned meat though did it?

It just gave the Science behind why eating a plant based diet keeps you healthy.

Lots on here say the exact opposite.

Quote:
How has that position been cut to the core anywhere, ever?
maybe it's not your argument, it's hard to keep up on here.

Lots on here say that you need meat to be healthy, science would tend to disagree.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:48 AM   #4614
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Also, for me personally, I am unable to remain optimally healthy while eating a diet that excludes animal based food.
I notice how you refrain from saying meat.

Why is that?
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:19 PM   #4615
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Quote:
No, I commented on the article itself being a biased. You then said it's a scientific study, I clarified that I was talking about the article itself.

If I'm going to talk about one thing, and you're going to respond as though I was talking about something else, we're getting nowhere.

Quote:
Okay, so you agree that what it says is that refraining from eating fruits and vegetables is not healthy. Okay, now tell me, who is advocating doing that?

No the article doesn't mention meat, but through it's verbosity it suggests that meat is unhealthy.

Are you not using the article in here as a "score" for the vegans against the meat eaters? Why if it doesn't mention meat?

I eat lots of fruits and vegetables every single day. I'm not missing out on anything you are getting.

Quote:
Because I eat an omnivorous diet. And because this thread is about vegans vs omnivores.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:51 PM   #4616
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by allure View Post
No, I commented on the article itself being a biased. You then said it's a scientific study, I clarified that I was talking about the article itself.

If I'm going to talk about one thing, and you're going to respond as though I was talking about something else, we're getting nowhere.
You are just being very pedantic.

The article was about the Scientific study, you cant discuss the article without, by association, implicating the study.

Quote:
Okay, so you agree that what it says is that refraining from eating fruits and vegetables is not healthy. Okay, now tell me, who is advocating doing that?
Of course I agree! I never said anything else.

Lots of people advocate a paleo Diet, or the atkins diet, some even say just eating meat and butter is healthy

Quote:
No the article doesn't mention meat, but through it's verbosity it suggests that meat is unhealthy.
No it doesn't.

That is just your projection onto it.

In no way does it imply anything about meat

Quote:
Are you not using the article in here as a "score" for the vegans against the meat eaters? Why if it doesn't mention meat?
Yes I am

And it is a great one isn't it?

Quote:
I eat lots of fruits and vegetables every single day. I'm not missing out on anything you are getting.
Great
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:06 PM   #4617
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Of course I agree! I never said anything else.

Lots of people advocate a paleo Diet, or the atkins diet, some even say just eating meat and butter is healthy
As far as I'm aware, neither the paleo nor the aktins diet say not to eat fruits and vegetables, quite the opposite in fact.

And also, this thread is only about the vegan diet vs any diet with meat in it. And you say some people say eating nothing but meat and butter is healthy, okay, I've never seen anybody say that, and again, that's not what anybody in this thread is saying.


Quote:
Yes I am

And it is a great one isn't it?
No. It's as sensible as you telling me your diet is healthier than mine because you drink water and water is healthy. Because guess what, I drink water too.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:08 PM   #4618
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Replying to any of your other shite is the equivalent of an; are too, am not! are too, am not, style debate.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:11 PM   #4619
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And why are you using an article, that has nothing to do with meat, as an argument for why people shouldn't eat meat?

And you actually think it's a good argument.

This... this, is vegan logic!
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Old 03-06-2014, 05:48 AM   #4620
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Originally Posted by allure View Post
And why are you using an article, that has nothing to do with meat, as an argument for why people shouldn't eat meat?

And you actually think it's a good argument.

This... this, is vegan logic!
I am pointing out the health benefits of a plant based diet.

That is what this thread is about isn't it?

The health benefits of certain diets?

And you think my logic is poor?

Is it impossible for you to think in positives?
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