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Old 03-01-2010, 10:01 AM   #21
kitler
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None of the countries that give a bad name to communist are actually communists; they are stuck in socialism (Stalinism actually). As Marx said, socialism is just the step between capitalism and communism, but not the final stage.
Communism, socialism and leftism are negative ideals that presuppose the victimness of all those who are not successful, and the evilness of those who are. Leftism believes that only the State can decide who makes money and who does not, and that the state should penalise through taxation all those who achieve to compensate all those who do not.

Anarchy and libertarianism are positive ideals that accept that all people are different and some will always be more succesfull than others. Anarchism/Libertarianism is the ideal that we are all responsible for our own shit and no one has the right to steal your money to compensate those who did not look after their own shit. The government not only has not got the right to tax the people, it doesn't even have the right to exist.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:04 AM   #22
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I plan on turning several acres of land over to food production. To do that I first need 'more land than I need' then I need people to work the land. The food I grow on that land then needs to make a profit.
I don't want to run it as a collective since I cannot guarantee that the others in my colllective will be smart enough to make good business descisions, so it will be run by myself and myself alone.
I will not exploit my work force and I will not rape the land.
But when it works I will make a lot more money than the workers.
If the workers on this land want to, there is nothing stopping them saving the money I pay them (which will be a lot) and starting their own businesses.
Eventually I would like to own so much food producing land that I am rich enough to start a serious company. Space mining or something. Something that requires vision and wealth to happen.

Under Classist, anti-wealth, anti-progress ideology my vision is considered evil and MUST BE STOPPED.
No one has the right to stop me. Those who try will die.
You are a capitalist and a classist then, but not necessarily evil.

Capitalist because your goal is to be wealthy and expand your business (capitalists never have enough). Actually, that's the reason why capitalism is due for disaster, because it can only work while the economy grows (more resources, more workers, more inflation, more ..., more ...); it can never reach a balance; balance in capitalism means economic depression.

And classist becuase you simply make a difference between "you" and "the workers".

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Old 03-01-2010, 10:11 AM   #23
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Communism, socialism and leftism are negative ideals that presuppose the victimness of all those who are not successful, and the evilness of those who are. Leftism believes that only the State can decide who makes money and who does not, and that the state should penalise through taxation all those who achieve to compensate all those who do not.
Yes, that's socialism alright. But communism (the real one) is stateless and classes. So, there would be no state deciding for you or taxing you.

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Old 03-01-2010, 10:17 AM   #24
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Under Classist, anti-wealth, anti-progress ideology my vision is considered evil and MUST BE STOPPED.
No one has the right to stop me. Those who try will die.
Bad Kitty!!! No more beer, tits and sieg heil for you!!!

I was kind of hoping you were doing a parody with your Fascist/Capitalist world view.

You are the classist - you believe in class and hierarchy.

You are anti wealth - all humans own everything already, they just have not taken it back from the crooks yet. WE ARE ALREADY RICH.

The anti-fa are growing, one big fist can smash your despotic dream, fear the mass, kitty.
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:57 AM   #25
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I don't think that David Icke knows where he stands politcally. He knows that he has more questions than he does answers. He criticises many ideas, but does not have many solutions except for post-modern-like ideals and the idea of 'love'. I agree with David on a few things believe his message is positive, but somewhat impractical.

He does not like hierachies, but he admits in his 'Tales from the Time Loop' that heirarchies are nearly inescapable, referring to anrachists having heirarchies. He has stated that he 'wouldn't be without the police'. His politics is mixed up, and even his theories on the elite are as well.

David also thinks that capitalism and socialism are bad for the environment, as he states in "I am free, I am me." He is very green, and yet he somehow believes global warming is a ruse. I don't know what to think about that. I think it could actually be real.

He even ran for a political postions not too long ago. I think David Icke prefers democracy, perhaps even direct democracy that leaned over to the left economically and on the liberal scale socially.
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:44 PM   #26
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I don't think that David Icke knows where he stands politcally. He knows that he has more questions than he does answers. He criticises many ideas, but does not have many solutions except for post-modern-like ideals and the idea of 'love'. I agree with David on a few things believe his message is positive, but somewhat impractical.
I would enjoy having a beer with Mr. Icke, I really love eccentric Brits.

Years ago I would buy and read all his books, though he is very interesting and I believe sincere I was taken in by his message of 'we create reality' but now I see it more as 'we chose our beliefs.'

David Icke kinda strikes me as being an aging hippy, I guess that was his generation. And all this talk of love and oneness seems vague and impractical. Plus I just can't believe Queen Lizzy is a lizard
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:46 PM   #27
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Arrow David Icke is not an Anarchist!

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Read most of his books but I can't figure out if he believes in having any form of government or not. Anybody here know his view on the matter?
No, he, like most of the conspiracy gurus, is a STATE CAPITALIST.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:39 PM   #28
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No, he, like most of the conspiracy gurus, is a STATE CAPITALIST.
Oh shit, that would make him a fascist or at least fascist lite.

Have I been duped?

Mr. Icke if you are out there please answer, I've spent over $200 bucks on your merch.

I need an answer, you owe me.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:46 PM   #29
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Oh shit, that would make him a fascist or at least fascist lite.

Have I been duped?

Mr. Icke if you are out there please answer, I've spent over $200 bucks on your merch.

I need an answer, you owe me.
Icke doesn't look or post here.

You have been duped if you believed David Icke was anything other than a Capitalist Reformer.

Edit; Have no illusions, about fascism I mean...

Last edited by zero1; 03-01-2010 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:22 PM   #30
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Here in the states libertarian is a conservative movement, or classical liberal, but not "left" by any means. Ron Paul and Peter Schiff, libertarians both, are hardly leftists. But I agree that Icke leans more toward the left as far as I can tell.
yes, that's why I said '(not the political party)'

Anarcho-Communism is a libertarian-leftist approach... not that I would label Icke into that category, but I do believe he leans that way just a tad.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:35 PM   #31
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Icke doesn't look or post here.

You have been duped if you believed David Icke was anything other than a Capitalist Reformer.

Edit; Have no illusions, about fascism I mean...
No I don't think he is a crypto-nazi as some have claimed.

Are you pro capitalist? Your avatar makes me think that you are not.
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Old 03-01-2010, 09:38 PM   #32
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Anarcho-Communism is a libertarian-leftist approach... not that I would label Icke into that category, but I do believe he leans that way just a tad.
I also think that's the case; he was the spokesman for the green party, which is way into the liberal left.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:15 PM   #33
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No I don't think he is a crypto-nazi as some have claimed.
Some might have claimed that, but I do not; Icke is a state capitalist idealogue, and an advocate of political and religious disclosure, that is all.

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Are you pro capitalist? Your avatar makes me think that you are not.
I am virulently anti-capitalist, and a religious anarchist.

Capitalism is the evil of necessity in a world of men ruled by fear.

It is predestined to fail and fall, as is the word and will of God.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:44 PM   #34
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Some might have claimed that, but I do not; Icke is a state capitalist idealogue, and an advocate of political and religious disclosure, that is all.



I am virulently anti-capitalist, and a religious anarchist.

Capitalism is the evil of necessity in a world of men ruled by fear.

It is predestined to fail and fall, as is the word and will of God.
Interesting.

My religion is - there is a Creator. full stop, no labels.

What is your religion?
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:10 AM   #35
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yes, that's why I said '(not the political party)'
Hmmm, I'm interested in any links that provide this alternate definition.
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Ron Paul is a Neo-Con, he is with the Republican party (party which Alex Jones also supported a few years ago). They are definitely not "lefties".
WTF? Ron Paul is the antithesis of a neo-con. Bush, McCain, et al are neo-cons. Don't confuse the man for the party. Here's the difference:
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:59 AM   #36
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Hmmm, I'm interested in any links that provide this alternate definition.
I'm not really sure what you're asking.. but there's the libertarian 'party', which is inherently rightwing, and then there's simply the definition of 'liberty', ie. freedom, which can obviously also exist within collectivist (leftist) societies.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:11 AM   #37
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You are a capitalist and a classist then, but not necessarily evil.

Capitalist because your goal is to be wealthy and expand your business (capitalists never have enough). Actually, that's the reason why capitalism is due for disaster, because it can only work while the economy grows (more resources, more workers, more inflation, more ..., more ...); it can never reach a balance; balance in capitalism means economic depression.

And classist becuase you simply make a difference between "you" and "the workers".
In this world yes, I am a capitalist bacause that is the most realistic path for me to attain power(not over others, just over my life). I do not want to abstain from life until someone overthrows the military industrial complex, divides up the land equally and creats a hippy utopia, and I cannot do it on my own. And even if I could it would take money and organisation, which sitting on the dole slagging off people who try, will not get me much of.

How come if I invest my own money and create a business and invite people to work with me in exchange for a share of the profits and produce then I am bad and exploitative?

Yet if I sit on my arse living off money stolen from people who work via taxation , then I am good and not in any way an exploiter?

And why do you assume I make a class distinction between myself and those who work with me? Why do you assume I would draw a wage higher than them? Why do you feel the need to see those who work with me as poor and opressed when in reality they have often been more wealthy than myself because they had not invested all their savings in a business?
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:22 AM   #38
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a hippy utopia
If it involves sandals and the smell of patchouli, it would not be a utopia.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:24 AM   #39
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If it involves sandals and the smell of patchouli, it would not be a utopia.
Fuck you. I like sandals and patchouli
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:30 AM   #40
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Read most of his books but I can't figure out if he believes in having any form of government or not. Anybody here know his view on the matter?
he explains his point of view on this one very clearly in his video cast,

VIDEO-CAST SPECIAL
David Icke Q+A in Avebury 2009
David Icke meets Premier Subscribers from the website and answers questions on a wide variety of topics, filmed on location in Avebury in 2009.

there are 4 parts posted there yet, in 3rd or 4th there was discussion on that same issue
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