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Old 25-06-2012, 01:49 PM   #41
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Interesting.. I've heard of this happening before (either on here or ATS).. do you have any more info on it?
Only that I heard Whitley Strieber and Starfire Tor talking about this and timeslips on Dreamland about 2 years ago.
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Old 25-06-2012, 03:10 PM   #42
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Lightbulb Lets go crazy & a bit mad...... Speed of light

Nice people using my train question which I never got answered yet in the other thread.

Lets go crazy & a bit mad.......

I just use round figures to make it simple for myself....


All orbits are ellipses in nature they say ..... Why?

Position of acceleration & position of deceleration..... travelling in moving direction & travelling away from overall moving direction "shapes the elliptic?"

Earth speed around the sun 100,000 km/h

Speed of light 300,000 km/s = 1080,000,000 km/h


How is the elliptic shaped around the sun relative to milky way?

How fast travels the sun around the milky-way? = 800,000 km/h





I think that the light speed; speed limit must be bullshit!!!! .... Why not?


Lets just presume the Earth is the train in this case & the Sun system another train... this would mean >>>


There should be situations where all is travelling in the same direction around the milky-way "Yes/No?"


Just to make it simple would mean 100,000 km/h + 800,000 km/h = 900,000 km/h

So if I also would shine a light into travel direction from earth would mean the light should travels with >>>

100,000 km/h + 800,000 km/h + 1080,000,000 km/h = 1080,900,000 km/h = more then the speed of light into travel direction....

So are we time travelling already .... by my theory???? .... Sometimes into the future & sometimes into the past?


Am I mistaken here??? .... or was Einstein living on a none moving rock?

There is still one speed missing ..... the speed of the milky-way around what by what speed??


If the centre of the milky-way would be perfectly round shaped it could be stationary.... if not & the centre of the milky-way has a elliptic eye shape & should adds even more speed to my example?


Just a theory ..... sorry I never went to the brainwashing university!!!
So by right I should not know nothing from there indoctrination.


Which should makes me a free thinker by rights?



Last edited by oiram; 25-06-2012 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 29-06-2012, 05:40 PM   #43
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Our past is "set in stone". The past would be continually changing if it were not.

If time travel were possible, Hitler would have been killed along with many other bad, as well as good people.

And what is to stop people winning the lottery then playing the stock market using future knowledge to change that into endless billions?
By whom, exactly? The only people to have the technology to do this are the government black-ops organisations, paid for by the big banks. So how would it benefit them to change the course of history and therefore the financial make-up of the many, many wars that they funded (and profited from)? Not only that, but the very same evil bastards that run places like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs have got money coming out of their earholes - what would be the advantage of going back in time and winning a pitiful sum like a lottery triple rollover? The phrase "a drop in the ocean" springs to mind. :P
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Old 29-06-2012, 06:02 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by oiram View Post
Nice people using my train question which I never got answered yet in the other thread.

Lets go crazy & a bit mad.......

I just use round figures to make it simple for myself....


All orbits are ellipses in nature they say ..... Why?

Position of acceleration & position of deceleration..... travelling in moving direction & travelling away from overall moving direction "shapes the elliptic?"

Earth speed around the sun 100,000 km/h

Speed of light 300,000 km/s = 1080,000,000 km/h


How is the elliptic shaped around the sun relative to milky way?

How fast travels the sun around the milky-way? = 800,000 km/h





I think that the light speed; speed limit must be bullshit!!!! .... Why not?


Lets just presume the Earth is the train in this case & the Sun system another train... this would mean >>>


There should be situations where all is travelling in the same direction around the milky-way "Yes/No?"


Just to make it simple would mean 100,000 km/h + 800,000 km/h = 900,000 km/h

So if I also would shine a light into travel direction from earth would mean the light should travels with >>>

100,000 km/h + 800,000 km/h + 1080,000,000 km/h = 1080,900,000 km/h = more then the speed of light into travel direction....

So are we time travelling already .... by my theory???? .... Sometimes into the future & sometimes into the past?


Am I mistaken here??? .... or was Einstein living on a none moving rock?

There is still one speed missing ..... the speed of the milky-way around what by what speed??


If the centre of the milky-way would be perfectly round shaped it could be stationary.... if not & the centre of the milky-way has a elliptic eye shape & should adds even more speed to my example?


Just a theory ..... sorry I never went to the brainwashing university!!!
So by right I should not know nothing from there indoctrination.


Which should makes me a free thinker by rights?


I like your post - it shows a good level of in-depth thinking. However, I believe you have to remember in terms of Einstein (or whomever he stole the theories from, depending on what you believe), everything is relative, meaning that the motion of the Earth around Sol, and Sol around the Galactic Core, is ignored as it is in constant effect. However, I agree with your line of thinking, and I think for scientists to say that the speed of light is unsurpassable is ridiculous. The quote should be "the speed of light is currently the fastest that anything can travel, as far as we know so far."

But yes, I agree wholeheartedly that the speed of light is relative to the motion of the point of origin of the light, and that makes your calculations correct. The reverse also technically applies to light shone in the opposite direction of the Earth's travel through the universe - the speed of light will decrease when you subtract the speed of the Earth's movement through space. It surprises me that this most basic set of circumstances escapes a lot of modern science.

Meh. It's all just different densities of energy vibration anyway. :P
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Old 15-07-2012, 02:31 PM   #45
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No. To be able to travel into the past, every smallest moment (planck time) of eternity for the whole Universe would have to exist so you could travel there.
Not necessarily. As with energy, time may "pass" only in discrete jumps, and 'being in between ' two adjacent time values may have no physical meaning. This issue is at the middle of present day debates on quantum gravity, which almost certainly has a strong connection to the possibility that time machines might one day exist.

Much of the present day controversy over the possibility of time machines hinges on the quantum gravity cutoff. This is a cutoff at some finite value of destructive space-time stresses that otherwise tend to grow toward infinity whenever a time machine attempts to form. The cutoff of those stresses supposedly occurs in instances when the terminal phase of the stress blow-up takes place in less time than the minimum possible interval (and, of course, nothing can actually be less than the minimum.)

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Time is not a dimension any more than heat is.
Hold on, there! At the beginning of the twentieth century, Hermann Minkowski published a scientific paper consolidating the role of time as the fourth dimension of spacetime, the basis for Einstein's theories of special and general relativity.

Since 1905, physicists have known that Einstein's special theory allows time travel to the future. To return, however, to travel backward through time into the past, had been thought to be impossible until 1949.

Since then the general theory, which allows time travel to the past under certain special conditions, has passed every experimental test to which it has been subjected.

Three years after Einstein published the formal mathematical theory of special relativity, his former math teacher Minkowski, showed how to interpret Einstein's equations geometrically in four-dimensional hyperspace.

In his general theory, Einstein showed how the geometry of space-time can be either flat (in the no gravity, special relativity case) or curved (involving gravity), and he did this by writing mathematical equations - the famous gravitational tensor field equations. These equations show how mass-energy and space-time interact. Probably the most direct evidence for space-time is the curved orbits of planets as they travel around the sun.

At the microscopic , local level, general relativity has causality built in (which means no time travel to the past), but on larger scales (on the order of the distances between neighboring galaxies) things can be a good deal more complicated. Large-scale, curved space-time can lead to violations of causality.

That is, on a large scale, curved space-time may lead to time travel to the past.

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Old 16-07-2012, 06:45 PM   #46
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Some people remember the event before the change, for example they'll be absolutely sure someone famous died and even saw it in the newspaper then when they bring it up in conversation everyone around them says they're wrong and said celebrity is still alive, or vice versa.

Here's a comment on a youtube eminem video

http://youtu.be/RFAGk9B-k7U



I'm not suggesting Eminem dies and the timeline was changed so he didn't, I beleive he did and was replaced. I'm saying he died and people forgot that they saw it on the news, I've heard of others who remember that report though.
Would love to find out more about this...
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Old 18-07-2012, 02:35 PM   #47
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it always amazes me that in threads like this people can make such concrete statements and then get really bent out of shape when others disagree with them - like anybody here really knows the answers
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Old 19-07-2012, 03:39 PM   #48
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Low budget, off the wall, but with a genius to it. Time travel, but very weird, takes a few watches to get your head around.


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Old 20-07-2012, 10:49 PM   #49
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Let's not forget the Simulation Argument.

Then time travel is really no big deal at all, but it's still unlikely that most of us would ever experience its effect, as we're all part of the simulation.
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Old 25-07-2012, 10:09 AM   #50
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In order to find the overall probability amplitude for a given process, then, one adds up, or integrates, the amplitude of postulate 3 over the space of all possible histories of the system in between the initial and final states, including histories that are absurd by classical standards. In calculating the amplitude for a single particle to go from one place to another in a given time, it would be correct to include histories in which the particle describes elaborate curlicues, histories in which the particle shoots off into outer space and flies back again, and so forth. The path integral assigns all of these histories amplitudes of equal magnitude but with varying phase, or argument of the complex number. The contributions that are wildly different from the classical history are suppressed only by the interference of similar, canceling histories (see below).

Feynman showed that this formulation of quantum mechanics is equivalent to the canonical approach to quantum mechanics, when the Hamiltonian is quadratic in the momentum. An amplitude computed according to Feynman's principles will also obey the Schrödinger equation for the Hamiltonian corresponding to the given action.

Classical action principles are puzzling because of their seemingly teleological quality: given a set of initial and final conditions one is able to find a unique path connecting them, as if the system somehow knows where it's going to end up and how it's going to get there. The path integral explains why this works in terms of quantum superposition
Feynmans sum over histories has been interpreted to mean that at the atomic level, history only exists as a series of probabilities and that ''the wave function'' collapses in to the most probable. This has been extended on by Stephen hawking who theorizes that if the "double split experiment" was done using light from a star which had been bent by gravitational lensing (the light not the star) that the measurement of the experiment would effect which path the light took, even tho the event had happened billions of years ago.

Also of relevance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler...ice_experiment

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Wheeler's delayed choice experiment is a thought experiment in quantum physics proposed by John Archibald Wheeler in 1978.[1] The results Wheeler projected have since been confirmed by actual experiment.[2][3][4]

Wheeler's experiment is a variation on the famous double-slit experiment. In Wheeler's version, the method of detection used in the experiment can be changed after a photon passes the double slit, so as to delay the choice of whether to detect the path of the particle, or detect its interference with itself. Since the measurement itself seems to determine how the particle passes through the double slits – and thus its state as a wave or particle – Wheeler's experiment has been useful in trying to understand certain strange properties of quantum particles. Several implementations of the experiment 1984-2007 showed that the act of observation ultimately determines whether the photon will behave as a particle or wave, verifying the unintuitive results of the thought
An interesting thought.
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Old 25-08-2012, 01:58 AM   #51
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hmmm


https://www.google.com/search?hl=da&...E8jtsgbR94CgBg
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Old 28-08-2012, 04:47 PM   #52
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Torben - thank you so much! Take a look at my thread:

DIF - Concentric magnetic spinning rings

I've been looking for a name for the damn thing for years! I really feel like it's an area of science that should really be looked into. It's got to have roots in something factual, surely, if it's been featured in work involving Carl Sagan. That's my theory, anyway. :P I know there's the concept of perpetual motion and the resulting free energy, but what really interests me is the effects of the three rotating magnetic fields generated by the rings on the space in the middle. What would happen to various types of matter in there?
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Old 28-08-2012, 04:59 PM   #53
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It occurs to me that time is not so much something that we move through like a being on a road through a valley. It gives this impression because there is relative change between ourselves and time, but i think that you will agree that a more fitting description is not so much that we move through time but that we are stationary and time is moving through us. Moving through us at a steady direction and "speed" that current scientific thought has no idea how to affect or even that it may be possible to do so.
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Old 29-08-2012, 10:54 PM   #54
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It occurs to me that time is not so much something that we move through like a being on a road through a valley. It gives this impression because there is relative change between ourselves and time, but i think that you will agree that a more fitting description is not so much that we move through time but that we are stationary and time is moving through us. Moving through us at a steady direction and "speed" that current scientific thought has no idea how to affect or even that it may be possible to do so.
I think it is an operation of the mind, as proof of my theory I offer this real time test [oxymoron] there are two extremes of time in the universe, I intend to use them as examples as they are the extreme, first type of time is bus stop time, you can wait ten minutes for a bus and it seems to your mind like hours, the second type is computer, or for those who do, gaming time, an hour on the computer or playing a game seems like ten minutes, if you have experience of this then you will know exactly what I am stating, time is in the mind
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:15 PM   #55
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A bigger challenge is to live totally in the present moment.
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Old 24-09-2012, 05:11 PM   #56
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A bigger challenge is to live totally in the present moment.
Indeed
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Old 30-10-2012, 09:33 AM   #57
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The most compelling argument that timetravel is not possible, is that if it was possible, we'd have constant visitors from the future as well as the past. Since we don't then...well....

Unless ofcourse you subscribe to the multiverse theory. If it were possible to travel back in time, in a multiverse world, you would never encounter the same universe that you were in, in the past. So, you wouldn't be able to impact your world in any way, as in the grandfather paradox. You would simply be affecting another of the infinite number of universes.
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Old 31-10-2012, 06:43 AM   #58
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While i fully endorse the hurling of watermelons at twats, i think light travels at a constant speed. Though it has been mooted that light travels slower in a heavy gravitational field, lightspeed isconsidered 'C' as a constant, and therefore the guy on the platform will observe the light from the torch travelling at the speed of light, while the guy with the torch, who is travelling almost at the speed of light will see it travelling only slightly faster than he is...
A agree with everything except the bit about watermelons. No wait,, i agree with the watermelon bit but the other part is wrong.

Light speed is constant for all observers. I.e the person standing still will see the light shoot off at light speed.. And the person moving on the train will also see the light shooting off at C. It is the same speed for all observers!
How can this be? Well, time for the guy travelling on the train has slowed down. His clock is ticking slower. Speed is just distance over time. So they both see light travel the same distance in the same time.

Put another way, if you run at 20mph and throw a water melon at Jusin Bieber at 20mph the melon will impact his face a 40mph! nice.

If however you run at 20mph and shine a light a JB, the light will hit him at speed C. NOT speed C +20.

Light speed is constant for all relative observers. Space and time adjust accordingly!

How is it that time can slow down when you move?

Well that is why we call it the space/time continuum. Time works exactly like any other dimension. Consider a car travelling due north. North<>south is one dimension on a 2D plane. East<>West is the second dimension on the same plane. As the car travels north it is not travelling east at-all. If the car starts to turn right, it begins to move easterly more and north less. It will get to a point when it is travelling both east and north equally (diagonally) and if it continues to turn east it will get to the point where it is only travelling east, and not travelling north at-all.
That is to say, the more you travel through one spacial dimension (or direction) the less you travel through the other spacial dimension. Simples.

Now, space-time is the same. The more you travel through time, the less you travel through space (and vica-verca). So if you just sit still and limit your movement through space you will travel through time faster. If you jump on a spaceship and start moving through space quickly, you will travel through time slower (Flight of the Navigator).

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Just to make it simple would mean 100,000 km/h + 800,000 km/h = 900,000 km/h
No. They dont accumulate. See above. If C is 100,000 km/h and if earth is travelling at 100,000 km/h, when you shine a light from earth the light does NOT go 200,000 km/h. Remember speed is distance over time. So what actually happens is time slows down.

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I like your post - it shows a good level of in-depth thinking.... ...I agree wholeheartedly that the speed of light is relative to the motion of the point of origin of the light, and that makes your calculations correct.
I liked his post too for the level of thought put in, but i got to clear up this one point to help his thinkings.. The calcs are incorrect. And your quote should read "...the speed of light is constant to all observers in relative motion...". Hope i explained the difference well enough.

Hope i was clear (nearly drew diagrams). Hope that helps
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Last edited by quantified_madness; 31-10-2012 at 06:58 AM. Reason: Removed the bit at the end where i waffled on about expoosing the true nature of reality
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Old 31-10-2012, 07:23 AM   #59
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...if the "double split experiment" was done using light from a star which had been bent by gravitational lensing (the light not the star) that the measurement of the experiment would effect which path the light took, even tho the event had happened billions of years ago...
This is the best example of possible backward time travel i know as it deals with causality.

The problem with using this type of retro-active wave function collapse to send information back in time is that it requires the event that you are sending back to to be unresolved in a superposition state. In the example above the light took many (all) paths to get to Hawkins, untill he observed it take just the one path billions of yeast later. The problem with sending info like lottery numbers back to last week with this method is that last week has already been observed. When we say observed we really just mean it has interacted with the rest of the macro-sphere and therefore resolved.

If you consider the difference between the micro and macroscopic, the difference lies in the degree of separation. A micro-sphere can contain a whole star if the star is sufficiently separated from the rest of the universe (i.e not interacting with it).

So perhaps it is possible to send information back to last week by creating a double split experiment type of observation that it TOTALLY separate from the time/space you are sending back to. In this separate micro-sphere last week remains unresolved and thus by observing the effects of last week in the appropriate manor you can bring about a favourable wave function collapse?

Heh,or not. Getting too close to the Many Worlds idea for me.
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Old 31-10-2012, 10:44 PM   #60
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As much as i would love backwards time travel to be true, i think it's the stuff of sci fi films rather than a realistic proposition.

The problem i can't get my head around is where is the past, surely it's gone and can never be repeated?
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