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Old 02-05-2012, 12:28 AM   #1
shinigami
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Default Backwards time travel

Is it actually possible to travel into the past?
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:35 AM   #2
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Though it makes for an interesting subject, I personally dont believe it's possible. The past has happened and gone and while it may be possible to see stuff that's happened as a light source (Hubble telescope images), you wouldn't be able to interact with them.
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:56 PM   #3
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No. To be able to travel into the past, every smallest moment (planck time) of eternity for the whole Universe would have to exist so you could travel there.

Time is not a dimension any more than heat is.
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Old 15-05-2012, 06:39 AM   #4
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See this is what I love about this forum - there is not so much as a single professional physicist on these boards, and yet suddenly everyone knows the be all and end all of science, and can say with such a forthright stamp-of-approval that backwards time-travel is impossible and can never be achieved.

Never? Really?

Are you seriously saying that, in the duration of the next several million millennia (and even during the countless others past already), barring somebody pulling the plug on our universe, not a single entity of human origin or otherwise will EVER achieve backwards time travel? Based on what, exactly? The fact that we never see time-travelling tourists? Well what if they've accounted for that already and have a way around it? Like making the travellers intangible and therefore unable to disrupt the timeline and cause a paradox that does something we can't even comprehend. Or perhaps that's what UFO/USO's are, time-travelling cruise liners. Who knows? Just because current conventional science (dictated to us from, and censored by, I might add, the top of the pyramid) says that we don't have a way to do it right now, doesn't mean that it's not possible, and I personally feel that those who say this is the case are the same people who burnt people at the stake for proposing theories that went against the grain in years gone by.

Have a little faith! Open your mind to possibility, because achieving your goals is only a matter of time and perseverance.
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:13 AM   #5
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Time is not a true dimension, it is simply how we record a pattern of change in space. The past is how matter and energy used to be organised whilst the future is how it will come to be organised - the whole thing "moving on the spot" rather than travelling along a "road".
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Old 15-05-2012, 08:55 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
Time is not a true dimension, it is simply how we record a pattern of change in space. The past is how matter and energy used to be organised whilst the future is how it will come to be organised - the whole thing "moving on the spot" rather than travelling along a "road".
true (nicely put btw)but time is also relative to your position and speed in the universe ie what is the past to one observer may be the future to an other for example two space ships traveling at different speeds towards an exploding star that is visible to both the faster one would see the explosion first his past would be the others future, if that makes sense. the same event observed at different points in time and none would be any more accurate than the other. although im not sure about backwards time travel ie the grandfather paradox, due to the relative nature of time if you travel at a fast enough speed you can go forward, the faster you go the slower time passes for you in relation to the rest of the universe.

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Old 15-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by silentnomore View Post
See this is what I love about this forum - there is not so much as a single professional physicist on these boards, and yet suddenly everyone knows the be all and end all of science, and can say with such a forthright stamp-of-approval that backwards time-travel is impossible and can never be achieved.

Never? Really?

Are you seriously saying that, in the duration of the next several million millennia (and even during the countless others past already), barring somebody pulling the plug on our universe, not a single entity of human origin or otherwise will EVER achieve backwards time travel? Based on what, exactly? The fact that we never see time-travelling tourists? Well what if they've accounted for that already and have a way around it? Like making the travellers intangible and therefore unable to disrupt the timeline and cause a paradox that does something we can't even comprehend. Or perhaps that's what UFO/USO's are, time-travelling cruise liners. Who knows? Just because current conventional science (dictated to us from, and censored by, I might add, the top of the pyramid) says that we don't have a way to do it right now, doesn't mean that it's not possible, and I personally feel that those who say this is the case are the same people who burnt people at the stake for proposing theories that went against the grain in years gone by.

Have a little faith! Open your mind to possibility, because achieving your goals is only a matter of time and perseverance.
great post the technology to travel foreward and BACKWARDS in time already exists only for black ops projects mind you we will never see such tech used in public.
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Old 15-05-2012, 02:36 PM   #8
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true (nicely put btw)but time is also relative to your position and speed in the universe ie what is the past to one observer may be the future to an other for example two space ships traveling at different speeds towards an exploding star that is visible to both the faster one would see the explosion first his past would be the others future, if that makes sense. the same event observed at different points in time and none would be any more accurate than the other. although im not sure about backwards time travel ie the grandfather paradox, due to the relative nature of time if you travel at a fast enough speed you can go forward, the faster you go the slower time passes for you in relation to the rest of the universe.
The whole "faster than light" hypothesis does not actually involve time travel....

For example, consider two creatures, one of which only has ears the other of which only has eyes. An explosion happens 20 miles away but the creature with only eyes would be aware of it before the creature only with ears...because light travels faster than sound. That does not mean that the creature only with the eyes exists somehow in the future of the creature only with ears.

Similarly, heading off into space at FTL speeds does not mean you actually arrive at your destination before you leave your origin...it just means that you get there before the light does (just as in the previous example, the light got there before the sound).

Einstein deserves a slap for suggesting otherwise.

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Old 15-05-2012, 06:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
The whole "faster than light" hypothesis does not actually involve time travel....

For example, consider two creatures, one of which only has ears the other of which only has eyes. An explosion happens 20 miles away but the creature with only eyes would be aware of it before the creature only with ears...because light travels faster than sound. That does not mean that the creature only with the eyes exists somehow in the future of the creature only with ears.

Similarly, heading off into space at FTL speeds does not mean you actually arrive at your destination before you leave your origin...it just means that you get there before the light does (just as in the previous example, the light got there before the sound).

Einstein deserves a slap for suggesting otherwise.
i never mentioned faster than light. but that the basis of the idea of time travel according to Einstein the faster you go the slower time pases to a point it stops. say you travel at the speed of light and leave earth and go to a star system 20 light years away and then back, from your reference 40 years have passed where as 1000s have passed on earth the traveler has effectively traveled forward in time to an independent observer. these speeds, light speed and faster than light speed (the basis for reversal of time ie stops at light speed)are imposable according to Einstein for anything that has mass as at light speed an object would acquire an infinite mass requiring an infinite amount of energy to move, how ever scientists have postulated that an object could approach the speed of light (requiring huge amounts of energy) giving the same tho significantly less dramatic effects, ie slowing time in relation to everything else for the traveler.

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Old 16-05-2012, 01:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
Time is not a true dimension, it is simply how we record a pattern of change in space. The past is how matter and energy used to be organised whilst the future is how it will come to be organised - the whole thing "moving on the spot" rather than travelling along a "road".
I don't see what you're getting at - that still makes it a dimension.
Don't know if you've seen this one already or not yet, but give it a go:

This single video explained so much to me. Movement within a given dimension creates / infers another dimension. If you take 3D space, and move around in it, that technically means there are 4 aspects to take into consideration: 3 axes of position, and then the movement from point A to point B - because this is a variable factor that causes the coordinates of the other three axes to change proportionally, the dimension of time is defined.
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Old 16-05-2012, 02:13 AM   #11
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It is my belief that time manipulations can happen in many ways including going back and changing the timeline.
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Old 16-05-2012, 08:54 PM   #12
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It is my belief that time manipulations can happen in many ways including going back and changing the timeline.
I have viewed past times, and stopped time.
I did not intend to, ir practise doing this as I don't fully understand what I am achieving.
Very precise location helps in this, such as into the central areaof a labyrinth, or such as this which they very speedily sealed up wih concrete.
http://www.stonepages.com/scacchiera/
The spiral implosion central point is what I consider is this black hole rubbish that they waffle on about.

I stood upon a such location, and with intent desired to watcgh as it was been built....I did.
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Old 17-05-2012, 12:46 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by shinigami View Post
Is it actually possible to travel into the past?
Mentally, perhaps...physically? No. Well...electrons can be in multiple locations at once as well as multiple times.
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Old 17-05-2012, 06:35 AM   #14
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I would LOVE to travel to the past!!!!!! (1983)

I would buy tons of M&Ms (plain),Golden Grain Macaroni and Chedder,a good walkman and who knows what else!!!!!

I MI$$ WHEN THINGS WERE STILL G00D!!
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Old 17-05-2012, 12:05 PM   #15
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I have to say, I'd be tempted to do the same, but go back and buy things like Cadbury's Creme Eggs and bags of Monster Munch, then bring them back and say, "Ahaaaa! I TOLD you they'd made them smaller!"

Or alternatively, I could go back and see something useful, like the Roswell crash, or the construction of Stonehenge in intervals of time. That'd be pretty cool.
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Old 17-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post

The whole "faster than light" hypothesis does not actually involve time travel....
erm, i think you will find it does

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Originally Posted by knightofthegrail View Post
For example, consider two creatures, one of which only has ears the other of which only has eyes. An explosion happens 20 miles away but the creature with only eyes would be aware of it before the creature only with ears...because light travels faster than sound. That does not mean that the creature only with the eyes exists somehow in the future of the creature only with ears.
What a silly hypothesis.

That light is able to get from point A to point B much faster than sound does not equate that a creature observing them exists in a different time space to those hearing them lol.

Time travel is purely a matter of perspective.

The philosophical question that: if a train travels at 99.99999r% the speed of light, and a man in that train shines a torch in front of him - how fast will the torch light move? - is prime here.

To the man on the train the light from his torch will move forwards at a very slow rate - there would be a discernible lag in the time it takes for him to switch the torch on and his observance of the light reflecting from a wall in front of him.

To an outside observer, the torch light would move at light speed, and he would observe it as being switched on and reflecting from the wall (almost) instantaneously.

Time travel is purely derived from perspective.

Neutrino's move faster than light. They have been observed to be able to move in and out of observable space - that is they are capable of moving faster than the light they reflect. Whether a creature can only see them or hear them makes no difference to the Neutrino - they simply exist, as a generic default, as particles that are not restricted by the same time constructs as those which are generically accepted as normal.

Try telling the Neutrino that it is not able to time travel when it steps out of your time and appears back into your time frame seconds later

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Similarly, heading off into space at FTL speeds does not mean you actually arrive at your destination before you leave your origin...it just means that you get there before the light does (just as in the previous example, the light got there before the sound).
If you head off into space to a set destination, and then return at FTL speeds, carrying a watch syncronised with a watch that remains in your place of departure - when you get back the times will be different - time for you (as the traveler) will be markedly slower than the time on the watch that remained at regular elapsed time. 1 year may have passed on the stationary time piece, while the travelers time piece would show a much shorter elapse. If you went to a far enough destination at say 1.5 FTL speed and returned after one year had elapsed on your watch - then the family that you left behind would be long passed away, and even their siblings would be passed away - while you may have only aged one year. So effectively then you would travel forwards in time, over a number of generations. Whether you could go back is an interesting theory - but forward time travel is a definitive scientific proposal, albeit not a physical reality due to technological constraints.

I think that defines time travel

If a person / object / atomic particle / whatever moves at speeds beyond light speed on Earth, then they effectively disappear to those who exist as slower than light speeds and re-appear sometime in the future (dependent on their speed and rate of deceleration)

This effectively equates to time travel, because the person / object / particle / whatever moves through time faster than light (from which time is measured) - so its incursions into FTL speed effectively transport it through time at an accelerated speed - the more prolonged that acceleration the further 'forwards' in time the person / object / particle / whatever will move.

Where natural time is structured around the lateral measure as per generically accepted rule (forward from 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour, 24 hours in a day) - anything that exists normally within that scope of experience will witness things traveling faster than that experience as stepping outside those parameters and effectively traveling faster than accepted time.

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Einstein deserves a slap for suggesting otherwise.
i think it is impossible to actually do that, as per the OP premise

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Old 17-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #17
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Such as 'where the heck are we?', modified with specifically, 'now'. You see, without knowing exactly where we (the solar system, earth and our collective human butts) are, now, we cannot plot where the earth would have been back 'when'. Sooo...we run into a problem that did not best any movie or teevee time traveler as they all blithly stepped into their machineries and popped magically back or forth in time, but always landing on earth.

No so in a reality that supported corporeal time travel. Imagine Doc Jones and Marty's surprise when they go shuuzing back to 1955 only to pop out into empty space! That would happen even in a heliocentric model of universe unless one knows both where we are now, and where we were back when. So the Delorian time machine, or any other such contraption had better be fitted with some form of space travel, as well as being air tight and pressurized, as the mere shift of a body in time does not shift it in space.

Even with the heliocentric model of an earth orbiting a more or less stationary sun, the time traveler would also have to accomodate getting over to earth from where the current orbit would place them...and no, the earth would not be in the exact place that it is today, even in a heliocentric model, due to the presumed/described eliptical nature of the alleged orbit, as well as the fudge factor known as 'orbital drift'. So even if a heliocentric model is imagined, the complications mean that some level of 'earth is not there when i am' is bound to occur for any time traveler, forward or back.

http://www.halfpasthuman.com/nailstochew.html
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Old 17-05-2012, 01:30 PM   #18
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Such as 'where the heck are we?', modified with specifically, 'now'. You see, without knowing exactly where we (the solar system, earth and our collective human butts) are, now, we cannot plot where the earth would have been back 'when'. Sooo...we run into a problem that did not best any movie or teevee time traveler as they all blithly stepped into their machineries and popped magically back or forth in time, but always landing on earth.

No so in a reality that supported corporeal time travel. Imagine Doc Jones and Marty's surprise when they go shuuzing back to 1955 only to pop out into empty space! That would happen even in a heliocentric model of universe unless one knows both where we are now, and where we were back when. So the Delorian time machine, or any other such contraption had better be fitted with some form of space travel, as well as being air tight and pressurized, as the mere shift of a body in time does not shift it in space.

Even with the heliocentric model of an earth orbiting a more or less stationary sun, the time traveler would also have to accomodate getting over to earth from where the current orbit would place them...and no, the earth would not be in the exact place that it is today, even in a heliocentric model, due to the presumed/described eliptical nature of the alleged orbit, as well as the fudge factor known as 'orbital drift'. So even if a heliocentric model is imagined, the complications mean that some level of 'earth is not there when i am' is bound to occur for any time traveler, forward or back.

http://www.halfpasthuman.com/nailstochew.html
That's always an issue - trouble is wherever you go, you could end up in the middle of a tree, or a mountain!

Not nice.

The region is then, outside the Earth's sphere of being - in a space void of matter, from where you could then observe the Earth and nip back - nifty little space ship needed as a none-optional integral requirement

Trouble then is: when you come back, depending on how far you go back - there is a danger that you will be percieved as a God by the locals who witness your 'fall from heaven' - and that kinda re-writes all the future
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Old 17-05-2012, 02:28 PM   #19
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Trouble then is: when you come back, depending on how far you go back - there is a danger that you will be percieved as a God by the locals who witness your 'fall from heaven' - and that kinda re-writes all the future
which opens the grand father paradox.
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Old 17-05-2012, 02:37 PM   #20
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which opens the grand father paradox.
And the butterfly effect: for every action there is a reaction - to coin another phrase, 'it is inevitable.'
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