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Old 26-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #2481
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why is that so? what makes it so difficult to drop this desiring?
Maybe the possible reasons I posted earlier which point towards it being far too simple for the mind to obviously get it's teeth into and 'chew' over.

Remember, desiring is simply 'life' desiring, like finding, is simply 'life' finding.

So everything is one complete whole.

And to be totally complete, it must include absolutely all of life, otherwise it aint one.

So, the looking, finding, dropping, holding, seeking, searching etc. etc. etc. is simply one celebrating at being complete by appearing to include two.

'Hide and seek' is a game which can be great fun, but you don't have to keep on a playing over and over and over again...you'll get bored, then...maybe a new game or desiring will captivate.

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Old 26-03-2012, 05:36 PM   #2482
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No matter what anyone says... not Osho, not Ramana Marharshi, not Sailor Bob, not John Wheeler, or anyone.

Listen to as many people as you wish, just don't believe what they say. You may ask, How can I do that, How can I listen and not believe? Well, I don't know- I cannot tell you how, all I know is that the day that belief falls away... you are free. But don't believe what I say...


http://www.oshobuddhaquotes.com/osho...belief-system/
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Old 26-03-2012, 05:56 PM   #2483
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If you don't believe what you read, reading becomes impossible. Yet the great paradox is that one can read and believe and not believe at the same time.
Stephen Jourdain said something about that in his book Radical Awakening. I don't have the book with me to give you an exact quote..
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Old 26-03-2012, 06:14 PM   #2484
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Originally Posted by lonestar
Awareness of the moment has has no thougths...



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I think we may be talking about something completely different here, with all due respect lonestar. Nothing has anything else. Which means everything can seem divided, when it's not, it's completely whole.



There is no division, start, moment, awareness, or going, which was ever in isolation or apart from itself.


maybe we are talking about two completely different forms of awareness.

the awareness im talking about is pure with no thougths.

awareness is not a thing.

what our preconceived thoughts are about awareness is neither right nor wrong.
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Old 26-03-2012, 06:45 PM   #2485
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Maybe the possible reasons I posted earlier which point towards it being far too simple for the mind to obviously get it's teeth into and 'chew' over.

Remember, desiring is simply 'life' desiring, like finding, is simply 'life' finding.

So everything is one complete whole.

And to be totally complete, it must include absolutely all of life, otherwise it aint one.

So, the looking, finding, dropping, holding, seeking, searching etc. etc. etc. is simply one celebrating at being complete by appearing to include two.

'Hide and seek' is a game which can be great fun, but you don't have to keep on a playing over and over and over again...you'll get bored, then...maybe a new game or desiring will captivate.

i see where you're coming from. there's absolutely nothing to improve, and even the mind is part of it. from the perspective of realization of the absolute, everything is, has been and always will be fine.

yet, in our daily lives there appear to be genetic dispositions, bodily needs, conditioning from society, psychological stress etc. pp.

is there really nothing to cope with?

all that helps, as richard sylvester put it, is "the story that cuts through all the other stories"
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Old 26-03-2012, 06:49 PM   #2486
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If you don't believe what you read, reading becomes impossible. Yet the great paradox is that one can read and believe and not believe at the same time.
Stephen Jourdain said something about that in his book Radical Awakening. I don't have the book with me to give you an exact quote..



"our usual state of consciousness: me degrading into a thought of me, what you are is not reducible to your thoughts"


idk but i found this one i liked!

what a crazy life this is....
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Old 26-03-2012, 06:50 PM   #2487
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what a crazy life this is....
dreams within dreams within dreams within dreams... oh yes, the ONE really is infinite
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Old 26-03-2012, 06:57 PM   #2488
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funny, i just found out that there's been a resistance to hang out on this forum in the evening, as if i needed to be somewhere else again

to be here, now is everything that is required for life to take place... nothing more, nothing less... it's in fact so easy
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:00 PM   #2489
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and being here, now takes place anyway, anytime ROFLMAO
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:00 PM   #2490
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No matter what anyone says... not Osho, not Ramana Marharshi, not Sailor Bob, not John Wheeler, or anyone.

Listen to as many people as you wish, just don't believe what they say. You may ask, How can I do that, How can I listen and not believe? Well, I don't know- I cannot tell you how, all I know is that the day that belief falls away... you are free. But don't believe what I say...
I do believe that is one of my favourite posts for a long time alisa2!
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:06 PM   #2491
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the awareness im talking about is pure with no thougths.
Ok, and is that your constant and lasting experience?

What I'm talking about is, all the time, and is not a specialised state.

Thanks for the clarity.
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:09 PM   #2492
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Ok, and is that your constant and lasting experience?

What I'm talking about is, all the time, and is not a specialised state.

Thanks for the clarity.
no.

but one can dream
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:13 PM   #2493
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Magic in Your Mind by U.S. Andersen

"That which is visualized in the mind becomes part of the possessor of that mind because a man is what he thinks. It is strange how little we know about the mind. Not much more has been determined about it since the time of Descartes and his brilliant basic premise, "Cogito, ergo sum"-- "I think therefore I am." We only know we exist because we think. Should thought stop in us, we automatically cease to be. Should thought begin at any particular point in space, that point would immediately begin to live. It is deeply significant that we exist by grace of thought, and it is even more significant that at any particular time we are the sum total of the thoughts we hold in mind.

It seems reasonable to assume that the thinking being that inhabits us in thought itself, that the more complex and universal our thought are, the more complex and universal we become. ..."

_____________________________


On the other hand ....:



"Not one thought—not one atom of thought—subsists in me, not even that of the miracle being accomplished, of the fabulous gem I am laying bare, not even the thought of that thought. My thought is dead, the illusion dissipated; that which I considered until that instant as the very armor of my interior existence, as the base of myself, has ceased to be. For the first time, in the silence of my thunderstruck thought, in the absolute vacuity of my mind where all form, all movement has succumbed, I AM." —Stephen Jourdain
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:19 PM   #2494
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Default back to classical advaita

when we are in deep sleep even our most rudimentary sense of self, the "i am" vanishes. what lies behind the "i am", what is aware of us even when we're totally gone? can this kind of witnessing take place in the waking state?
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:50 PM   #2495
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Magic in Your Mind by U.S. Andersen

"That which is visualized in the mind becomes part of the possessor of that mind because a man is what he thinks. It is strange how little we know about the mind. Not much more has been determined about it since the time of Descartes and his brilliant basic premise, "Cogito, ergo sum"-- "I think therefore I am." We only know we exist because we think. Should thought stop in us, we automatically cease to be. Should thought begin at any particular point in space, that point would immediately begin to live. It is deeply significant that we exist by grace of thought, and it is even more significant that at any particular time we are the sum total of the thoughts we hold in mind.

It seems reasonable to assume that the thinking being that inhabits us in thought itself, that the more complex and universal our thought are, the more complex and universal we become. ..."

_____________________________


On the other hand ....:



"Not one thought—not one atom of thought—subsists in me, not even that of the miracle being accomplished, of the fabulous gem I am laying bare, not even the thought of that thought. My thought is dead, the illusion dissipated; that which I considered until that instant as the very armor of my interior existence, as the base of myself, has ceased to be. For the first time, in the silence of my thunderstruck thought, in the absolute vacuity of my mind where all form, all movement has succumbed, I AM." —Stephen Jourdain

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when we are in deep sleep even our most rudimentary sense of self, the "i am" vanishes. what lies behind the "i am", what is aware of us even when we're totally gone? can this kind of witnessing take place in the waking state?

wow!


both these posts are soooo interesting!


a lot of my dreams (sleeping) revolve around something i desire to be fulfilled in the awake time. (but no sleep dreams of being buddha yet)

so i guess my ego thoughts are stilll leading my pure awareness around by the balls even in my deep dreams...



pure awareness = whatever our mind and thoughts can not understand is our self?
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Old 26-03-2012, 07:58 PM   #2496
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Originally Posted by lonestar View Post
wow!


both these posts are soooo interesting!


a lot of my dreams (sleeping) revolve around something i desire to be fulfilled in the awake time. (but no sleep dreams of being buddha yet)

so i guess my ego thoughts are stilll leading my pure awareness around by the balls even in my deep dreams...



pure awareness = whatever our mind and thoughts can not understand is our self?
you can laugh at me for this one, but i once had a very strange experience when i suddenly woke up in the middle of the night (i guess from deep sleep) and had some kind of echo from the state i've been in going through my whole body which felt like infinite multiple orgasms plus a choir singing in a very high and loud voice

Last edited by hierophant; 26-03-2012 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 26-03-2012, 08:20 PM   #2497
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you can laugh at me for this one, but i once had a very strange experience when i suddenly woke up in the middle of the night (i guess from deep sleep) and had some kind of echo from the state i've been in going through my whole body which felt like infinite multiple orgasms plus a choir singing in a very high and loud voice
oh i LAUGHED!
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Old 26-03-2012, 08:21 PM   #2498
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The source of dreams is the mind- the psychological mind.

And...

You are not your mind.

"I AM" is a pointer. What is it pointing to ?... when you ask Who Am I?
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Old 26-03-2012, 08:25 PM   #2499
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oh i LAUGHED!
the best thing was that noone asked me for an entry fee

Last edited by hierophant; 26-03-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 26-03-2012, 08:28 PM   #2500
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The source of dreams is the mind- the psychological mind.

And...

You are not your mind.

"I AM" is a pointer. What is it pointing to ?... when you ask Who Am I?
the "i am" (feeling of consciously being in a body) is gone when you're asleep and it comes back when you wake up. what's been going on in the meantime?
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