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Old 29-04-2017, 08:18 PM   #21
derekbuttery
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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
I don't think you grasp the concept at all derek.

If you truly believe we have so little freedom, so little power within ourselves to determine our own fate would you not consider it important to hold dear the simple ability to voice your experience of your life ?

I am even more concerned after reading your reply that people do not fully understand the importance or have any historical context with which to compare their own existence.

It hasn't all ways been like this Derek you do understand that much don't you ?

We haven't all ways been able to have freedom of assembly and even THAT is entirely curtailed due to the suppression of dissent.

I think that is the key factor here, with freedom of conscience and freedom of expression ( the two go hand in hand with freedom of speech btw ) what we are really talking about is the freedom to disseminate our experience of the world without being under threat of imprisonment or worse, death.

Why must you assume I am trying to keep people in some sort of servitude by espousing the importance of freedom of speech, thought and expression ?

It is the opposite , I am advocating for the abolition of state interference in many aspects of our life.

State approved speech is one of the main ones I am against.

Obviously you don't think it's important, or don't think it ever existed.

I am glad you are free to think so
.
Freedom of thought will soon be gone, controlled too if Musk and Zuckerberg have their way (the thought police are tuning in right now )

I wasn't talking of the peterloo massacre you were. Civil disobediences have always been put down. so yes, it has always been this way for that.

You brought war into this deal not me. The peterloo massacre goes to prove my point rather than against it.

Whatever freedom we imagine we have is wholly controlled by TPTB.

It's evident that you're head is firmly in the sand on this issue. There's a joke thread on this forum about the freedom of press, then there's all the 'fake' news items we are being force fed almost daily. is this being free?
there was once an attempt to start a 'freedom' news outlet a few years ago, that was quickly scuppered. it has been heavily suggested by other sources that there were those involved (MI5??) from the beginning, out to undermine this.... seems they succeeded.

tell me, what exactly is FREEDOM of speech, (and please feel 'free' to leave out any political, romantic hypothesising) to you? surely we can talk whenever we want to? is this not being free to speak? we can draw and paint and sing whenever it suits, so is this not freedom of expression???? (rhet.)


Until the Human Race Gets Off It's Knees, it won't have freedom.

I thank you for your concerns but feel they are misplaced and not genuine. I am not sure why you think I ever assume anything. I see something I do not agree with and will comment on it. period. no assumptions.

I understand to nothing and no-one. I do know however, that the commoners have always been down trodden. Religion, wealth, physical and social powers have always kept people under control. no freedom. for at least 8,000 years.
before that? hard to say really depends on which timeline you choose to follow I guess.

bet you believe in god, or democracy, or voting rights too?

again we should agree to disagree on this point.
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Old 29-04-2017, 08:45 PM   #22
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Freedom of thought will soon be gone, controlled too if Musk and Zuckerberg have their way (the thought police are tuning in right now )
You still don't seem to grasp that freedom of conscience , freedom of expression are what constitutes freedom of speech. It is our ability to communicate that which we experience that must be defended, and has been defended in the past by people loosing their lives. You asserted that this has never happened, and I needed to correct you so gave you an example of http://www.peterloomassacre.org/history.html
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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post
I wasn't talking of the peterloo massacre you were. Civil disobediences have always been put down. so yes, it has always been this way for that.
They were trying to express their thoughts
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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post
You brought war into this deal not me. The peterloo massacre goes to prove my point rather than against it.
No I didn't mention war , you replied to the peterloo massacre event by talking about war. I didn't bring it up at all.
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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post
Whatever freedom we imagine we have is wholly controlled by TPTB.
Not really, we may give our power away to manifest our own destiny, but that doesn't mean they are ultimately in control. We just pretend they are for the sake of a trouble free existence.
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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post
It's evident that you're head is firmly in the sand on this issue. There's a joke thread on this forum about the freedom of press, then there's all the 'fake' news items we are being force fed almost daily. is this being free?
there was once an attempt to start a 'freedom' news outlet a few years ago, that was quickly scuppered. it has been heavily suggested by other sources that there were those involved (MI5??) from the beginning, out to undermine this.... seems they succeeded.
So the answer is to pretend there is no such thing as freedom of conscience or freedom of expression ?
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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post

tell me, what exactly is FREEDOM of speech, (and please feel 'free' to leave out any political, romantic hypothesising) to you? surely we can talk whenever we want to? is this not being free to speak? we can draw and paint and sing whenever it suits, so is this not freedom of expression???? (rhet.)
I've said what I believe it is many times now. It is the ability to express your experience of the world and to disseminate that expression without fear of imprisonment or death.

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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post
Until the Human Race Gets Off It's Knees, it won't have freedom.
We have it all ready, but we give it away on a daily basis.
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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post
I thank you for your concerns but feel they are misplaced and not genuine. I am not sure why you think I ever assume anything. I see something I do not agree with and will comment on it. period. no assumptions.
Not quite true as you are just about to assume some things
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Originally Posted by derekbuttery View Post
I understand to nothing and no-one. I do know however, that the commoners have always been down trodden. Religion, wealth, physical and social powers have always kept people under control. no freedom. for at least 8,000 years.
before that? hard to say really depends on which timeline you choose to follow I guess.
Society is the grand expression of who we are, it changes through time and we have made great in roads toward where we stand today. THIS is why there is a huge push to make believe there is no such thing as freedom of speech when in reality it is a fundamental experience of being human.
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bet you believe in god, or democracy, or voting rights too?
And here we land at the assumptions you do not make. Although earlier I was not allowed to bring politics or romantic belief into my point , I am allowed to live on the side of someone elses assumption regarding my experience of the world. This conversation is wonderful.

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again we should agree to disagree on this point.
I think it is important to note here that I am not disagreeing with you , essentially I am backing up your right to think for yourself Derek and your right to express your thoughts without fear of imprisonment or death.
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Old 29-04-2017, 09:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
You still don't seem to grasp that freedom of conscience , freedom of expression are what constitutes freedom of speech. It is our ability to communicate that which we experience that must be defended, and has been defended in the past by people loosing their lives. You asserted that this has never happened, and I needed to correct you so gave you an example of http://www.peterloomassacre.org/history.html

They were trying to express their thoughts
No I didn't mention war , you replied to the peterloo massacre event by talking about war. I didn't bring it up at all. you said people died in war for our freedoms (sic)
Not really, we may give our power away to manifest our own destiny, but that doesn't mean they are ultimately in control. We just pretend they are for the sake of a trouble free existence.
So the answer is to pretend there is no such thing as freedom of conscience or freedom of expression ? I've said what I believe it is many times now. It is the ability to express your experience of the world and to disseminate that expression without fear of imprisonment or death. and of course this happens all over the world, in countries such as north korea, russia, chine the uk the usa etc...? no one ever gets imprisoned for speaking up do they?

We have it all ready, but we give it away on a daily basis.
Not quite true as you are just about to assume some things
Society is the grand expression of who we are, it changes through time and we have made great in roads toward where we stand today. THIS is why there is a huge push to make believe there is no such thing as freedom of speech when in reality it is a fundamental experience of being human.
And here we land at the assumptions you do not make. Although earlier I was not allowed to bring politics or romantic belief into my point , I am allowed to live on the side of someone elses assumption regarding my experience of the world. This conversation is wonderful.



I think it is important to note here that I am not disagreeing with you , essentially I am backing up your right to think for yourself Derek and your right to express your thoughts without fear of imprisonment or death.
patronise much?
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Old 30-04-2017, 12:29 AM   #24
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Love it or hate it, there is a war on to shut down Infowars, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the WH has not ruled out controls on the alternate media in general despite it's role in getting Trump elected.

Google has demonetised Infowars (which I don't watch), Google has put new censoring algorithms in place as has FB.

The surveillance of ordinary people is still going on unabated.

Assange, Manning and Snowden (who did try to whistleblow within the system) will never be free. Don't kid yourself that Manning will be released to live a normal life, there will be a tail forever. They represent us.

I feel nothing but disgust for the treachery of the Australian Government in its failure to protect Assange. It's just proof that none of us is safe.
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Old 30-04-2017, 06:50 AM   #25
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Interview with former Clinton staffer about the overall attack on free speech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60ros1_XMzU
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Old 30-04-2017, 09:08 AM   #26
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Regardless of what you might think of him personally, if he is shut down you might be next. It's the principle of free speech and freedom of expression that needs to be preserved.
But leaking a nation's secrets is not free speech is it? If a person wants to do that they can't expect free speech laws to protect them as I'm sure that those secrets are also protected by laws.
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Old 30-04-2017, 09:10 AM   #27
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Love it or hate it, there is a war on to shut down Infowars, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the WH has not ruled out controls on the alternate media in general despite it's role in getting Trump elected.

Google has demonetised Infowars (which I don't watch), Google has put new censoring algorithms in place as has FB.

The surveillance of ordinary people is still going on unabated.

Assange, Manning and Snowden (who did try to whistleblow within the system) will never be free. Don't kid yourself that Manning will be released to live a normal life, there will be a tail forever. They represent us.

I feel nothing but disgust for the treachery of the Australian Government in its failure to protect Assange. It's just proof that none of us is safe.
This forum seems relatively safe though
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Old 30-04-2017, 05:44 PM   #28
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my apologies for my last post. it was done on my phone hence the poor format and confusion.
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Old 02-04-2018, 11:35 AM   #29
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Electric jammer installed in the Ecuadorian Embassy.


How come John Pilger speaks with English accent? I thought he was an aussie.

And is RT still off-air? I don't have a tel-lie.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:28 PM   #30
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Electric jammer installed in the Ecuadorian Embassy.


How come John Pilger speaks with English accent? I thought he was an aussie.

And is RT still off-air? I don't have a tel-lie.
RT is broadcasting. John Pilger is Australian but spends a lot of time in the UK.
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:09 PM   #31
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I thought he was already free Mrs. Tealady??

Ah man!!
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Old 03-04-2018, 09:21 PM   #32
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I don't think this is him anymore. I think he swapped places with Pamela Anderson - when she came out her legs in fishnets looked like his.
Plus they don't see each other anymore.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:28 AM   #33
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Please write to your Member of Parliament or Congressman to advocate for this man who has been so unjustly treated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62de7M46b_0
Yea lets help free him... but not all the other unjustly imprisoned people?

why is he the only one that needs to be freed?
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:05 AM   #34
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Yea lets help free him... but not all the other unjustly imprisoned people?

why is he the only one that needs to be freed?
You are most welcome to start threads about other people who need to be freed.
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Old 16-04-2018, 11:38 AM   #35
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So Assange still has no internet connection?
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Old 16-04-2018, 01:54 PM   #36
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We need to help him choose stronger condoms.
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Old 23-04-2018, 07:44 PM   #37
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So Assange still has no internet connection?
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A Town Cursed by Jesus
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Old 23-04-2018, 07:52 PM   #38
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Pammy is an odd one.

She is rumoured to have had close relations with Putin and Assange - she was quite sheepish when asked by Piers Morgan how close she was to both Putin and Assange.

She is also very cushy with Trump.
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Old 27-05-2018, 09:05 AM   #39
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So if they said that then there are no charges to answer and they cant prosecute him for them, especially if the 'victims' deny anything. The internat pages I read said they dropped the charges of sexual assault but they would still pursue the rape charge, so he still has reason to hide.

He isnt being detained as he is in the sanctuary of a soverign state effectively. He is not in a British prison or other correctional facility.

Why is he afraid of going to the US on espionage charges? if he didnt acquire the material then can he be prosecuted for leaking it? there are other people, such as Gary McKinnon, who never had the benefit of a safehole to hide in. The more he keeps hiding from the charges the more people will think he is guilty of them.

Why not compare him to Icke, who has clearly stated he would be happy to go to court and have it out in the public eye with his accusers? If Icke would be ready to face a public trial for his books then why is Assange hiding like a frightened rabbit? maybe there is some truth in the charges?
Because in the US he would never see the inside of a court room. Because of the Patriot Act and the NDAA, he will be labeled as an enemy combatant and stripped of due process. In other words, he's classified as a terrorist.

It's not just int he US, he's not going to get a fair trial or a fair anything if he comes out of hiding because he is a direct threat to the elites and their nefarious plans.

Do you think Gary McKinnon would have gotten a fair trail had he been extradited to the US? Absolutely not!
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