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Old 28-08-2018, 02:34 PM   #1
AClockworkOrange
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Default Masons Ignorant at Local Levels

By local levels, I mean everyday, non-elites. For example, many of us have family members, friends, or associates who are Masons and clearly are not part of a global conspiracy.

I have always assumed that these types of Masons don't understand the extent of esoteric Masonry and how the world is run on these principles, but recently I spoke with two 32nd degree Masons who seemed to be clueless about the basic symbols of their secret society.

I know a doctor, a very educated man, who is a 32nd degree Mason and used to be Worshipful Master of his lodge. I have wondered many times why everyday Masons are not up in arms regarding the clear Masonic symbolism that has been, and continues to be, used at the World Trade Center. I decided to ask this doctor. I started by asking if he knew about the Masonic arch and keystone, just assuming that he knew all about it and that the conversation would move on from there:
This 32nd Mason DID NOT KNOW WHAT THE MASONIC ARCH IS, much less what it represents.
He acted as if he had never heard of it. When I said the words 'arch and keystone', he asked me to repeat it, as if he was totally baffled. I was fairly shocked. As I said, I assumed average Masons don't understand much of esoteric Masonry, but I thought someone at the highest degree would have a strong grasp of basic symbolism at the very least.

The conversation did not come close to reaching the symbolism of 9/11.

The second 32nd degree Mason I spoke to knew about people like Jacques de Molay and other aspects of Masonic history, but when I asked if he knew about the Eagle, Lion, Ox, and Man - or the zodiac ages of Scorpio, Leo, Taurus, and Aquarius - he asked me to repeat myself. Then he said he thought he had heard of it, but he definitely was not familiar with any deeper meaning.

These zodiac signs can be seen on Masonic tracing boards. The two pillars/columns can be seen on the tracing boards of the lowest levels of Masonry.

Here is the lion-eagle-ox-man on the seal of the Grand Lodge of the State of New York. It is not an obscure symbol.


The ignorance of these two Masons is far greater than I expected. Not knowing the ARCH AND KEYSTONE(!!!!!!) is absurd to an insane degree. This is one of the most basic symbols of one of the most basic concepts of Freemasonry.
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Old 29-08-2018, 09:14 AM   #2
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They have sworn oaths not to speak to you about these things
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Old 29-08-2018, 11:23 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by AClockworkOrange View Post
By local levels, I mean everyday, non-elites. For example, many of us have family members, friends, or associates who are Masons and clearly are not part of a global conspiracy.

I have always assumed that these types of Masons don't understand the extent of esoteric Masonry and how the world is run on these principles, but recently I spoke with two 32nd degree Masons who seemed to be clueless about the basic symbols of their secret society.

I know a doctor, a very educated man, who is a 32nd degree Mason and used to be Worshipful Master of his lodge. I have wondered many times why everyday Masons are not up in arms regarding the clear Masonic symbolism that has been, and continues to be, used at the World Trade Center. I decided to ask this doctor. I started by asking if he knew about the Masonic arch and keystone, just assuming that he knew all about it and that the conversation would move on from there:
This 32nd Mason DID NOT KNOW WHAT THE MASONIC ARCH IS, much less what it represents.
He acted as if he had never heard of it. When I said the words 'arch and keystone', he asked me to repeat it, as if he was totally baffled. I was fairly shocked. As I said, I assumed average Masons don't understand much of esoteric Masonry, but I thought someone at the highest degree would have a strong grasp of basic symbolism at the very least.

The conversation did not come close to reaching the symbolism of 9/11.

The second 32nd degree Mason I spoke to knew about people like Jacques de Molay and other aspects of Masonic history, but when I asked if he knew about the Eagle, Lion, Ox, and Man - or the zodiac ages of Scorpio, Leo, Taurus, and Aquarius - he asked me to repeat myself. Then he said he thought he had heard of it, but he definitely was not familiar with any deeper meaning.

These zodiac signs can be seen on Masonic tracing boards. The two pillars/columns can be seen on the tracing boards of the lowest levels of Masonry.

Here is the lion-eagle-ox-man on the seal of the Grand Lodge of the State of New York. It is not an obscure symbol.


The ignorance of these two Masons is far greater than I expected. Not knowing the ARCH AND KEYSTONE(!!!!!!) is absurd to an insane degree. This is one of the most basic symbols of one of the most basic concepts of Freemasonry.
Seems odd as so many of them are christians and familiar with the bible. The lion, ox, eagle and man are shown in various parts of the bible and are often interpreted as the 4 evangalisits, though they have other meanings too.

From what I gather, in the US you can get the 33 degree ceremony done in a weekend, so its very possible that people go through the ceremonies for such levels without having a lot of the background knowledge that you would expect. In the UK progress to 33 degree is not so fast. The reality is that some see it as a way to make contacts in the same way that many join golf clubs, so the idea of studying the subject for its own sake would be a waste of their time.

Or maybe they werent really masons? I would expect any craft mason to have such basic knowledge.
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Old 29-08-2018, 11:24 AM   #4
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They have sworn oaths not to speak to you about these things
Yet there are masonic authors whose books mention these things. I have a Guide to Masonic Symbolism by Duncan, which covers things quite well.
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Old 29-08-2018, 11:41 AM   #5
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Yet there are masonic authors whose books mention these things. I have a Guide to Masonic Symbolism by Duncan, which covers things quite well.
The OP was saying that when they spoke directly to masons they said they hadn't heard of these things and I'm saying that is possibly down to the fact that they have sworn terrible oaths to not speak to non masons

Regarding freemasonic literature not everyone engages with books

Some people prefer to speak with other people and the problem they will hit up against is that if they try and speak to stonemasons they may find themselves stonewalled

If as someone who likes to engage with books you would like to then share that information then i think that's great
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I believe the public should have a say in their own fate and that is why i support free speech. Any media talking heads who argue that free speech must be curbed are arguing that the public should not be allowed a say in their own fate

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Old 29-08-2018, 11:45 AM   #6
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The OP was saying that when they spoke directly to masons they said they hadn't heard of these things and I'm saying that is possibly down to the fact that they have sworn terrible oaths to not speak to non masons

Regarding freemasonic literature not everyone engages with books

Some people prefer to speak with other people and the problem they will hit up against is that if they try and speak to stonemasons they may find themselves stonewalled

If as someone who likes to engage with books you would like to then share that information then i think that's great
lol, you mean I have to spend my money on books, then read them so that you people can sit on your arses, do nothing and then claim its all a cover up anyway?

If people want real understanding they need to start reading, not listening to third hand opinions and bullshit posted on youtube. No wonder the level of reseach has degraded over the years as people use shit sources.
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Old 29-08-2018, 12:09 PM   #7
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lol, you mean I have to spend my money on books, then read them so that you people can sit on your arses, do nothing and then claim its all a cover up anyway?

If people want real understanding they need to start reading, not listening to third hand opinions and bullshit posted on youtube. No wonder the level of reseach has degraded over the years as people use shit sources.
is that how you are going to rationalise your hoarding of secrets?

have you no desire to assist your fellow man to a higher level of awareness?
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I believe the public should have a say in their own fate and that is why i support free speech. Any media talking heads who argue that free speech must be curbed are arguing that the public should not be allowed a say in their own fate

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Old 29-08-2018, 02:14 PM   #8
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If people want real understanding they need to start reading, not listening to third hand opinions and bullshit posted on youtube. No wonder the level of reseach has degraded over the years as people use shit sources.
The problem is, most if not all the real information has been filtered out by Googles algorithms..
We are left with all the shit now whilst they circle in and try and recapture the narrative!

What books would you recommend for reading?
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"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled;
The truth must be kept secret, and the masses need a teaching proportioned to their imperfect reason… - Albert Pike Sharpen & Use your reasoning daily - the nine
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Old 29-08-2018, 02:20 PM   #9
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You could always try accessing the greatest library of the Universe without the G's aligorithm...It's called Akashic record.

I probably wouldn't want to learn from Justme so I'm glad he is not giving anything away. It makes no difference.
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Old 29-08-2018, 03:03 PM   #10
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is that how you are going to rationalise your hoarding of secrets?

have you no desire to assist your fellow man to a higher level of awareness?
The truth is that you can put truth before a person and it doesnt mean that people will accept it so whats the point of putting everything on a plate? you have to earn truth, generally by plodding the path, not reading it on t'interweb.

Im happy to assist people but maybe the help they need isnt what they are asking for.
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I shoot up vertically like an arrow, and become that Above. But it is death, and the flame of the pyre. Ascend in the flame of the pyre, O my soul! Thy God is like the cold emptiness of the utmost heaven, into which thou radiatest thy little light.
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Old 29-08-2018, 03:04 PM   #11
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The problem is, most if not all the real information has been filtered out by Googles algorithms..
We are left with all the shit now whilst they circle in and try and recapture the narrative!

What books would you recommend for reading?
Well you have quoted Pikes book in your sig. Why not try reading the whole book?
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I shoot up vertically like an arrow, and become that Above. But it is death, and the flame of the pyre. Ascend in the flame of the pyre, O my soul! Thy God is like the cold emptiness of the utmost heaven, into which thou radiatest thy little light.
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Old 29-08-2018, 04:25 PM   #12
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The truth is that you can put truth before a person and it doesnt mean that people will accept it so whats the point of putting everything on a plate? you have to earn truth, generally by plodding the path, not reading it on t'interweb.

Im happy to assist people but maybe the help they need isnt what they are asking for.
so that's how you will continue to rationalise the hoarding of secrets
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I believe the public should have a say in their own fate and that is why i support free speech. Any media talking heads who argue that free speech must be curbed are arguing that the public should not be allowed a say in their own fate
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Old 29-08-2018, 05:17 PM   #13
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so that's how you will continue to rationalise the hoarding of secrets
I guess so. Must be a hard pill to swallow for somebody who expects it all to be given on a plate with no effort.
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Old 29-08-2018, 05:27 PM   #14
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I guess so. Must be a hard pill to swallow for somebody who expects it all to be given on a plate with no effort.
you think i'm someone who doesn't engage with books?

all i was saying is that everyones different and as much as i love books not everyone is equipped for book learning

that doesn't mean they are stupid as there are different types of smarts and there are many different talents

so some people might be more suited to learning through talk and if you are someone who has earned knowledge through your efforts then there may be people who would be interested to hear what you have to say but maybe they can't grapple with a big brick of a book

as for 'earning' the knowledge they would be earning it by listening to you as not everyone is a willing listener
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I believe the public should have a say in their own fate and that is why i support free speech. Any media talking heads who argue that free speech must be curbed are arguing that the public should not be allowed a say in their own fate

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Old 29-08-2018, 05:41 PM   #15
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you think i'm someone who doesn't engage with books?

all i was saying is that everyones different and as much as i love books not everyone is equipped for book learning

that doesn't mean they are stupid as there are different types of smarts and there are many different talents

so some people might be more suited to learning through talk and if you are someone who has earned knowledge through your efforts then there may be people who would be interested to hear what you have to say but maybe they can't grapple with a big brick of a book

as for 'earning' the knowledge they would be earning it by listening to you as not everyone is a willing listener
The only knowledge that is worthwhile is that what you can apply and use
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Old 29-08-2018, 05:43 PM   #16
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The only knowledge that is worthwhile is that what you can apply and use
i'm not speaking about the knowledge but how it is transmitted
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I believe the public should have a say in their own fate and that is why i support free speech. Any media talking heads who argue that free speech must be curbed are arguing that the public should not be allowed a say in their own fate
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Old 29-08-2018, 06:32 PM   #17
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lol, you mean I have to spend my money on books, then read them so that you people can sit on your arses, do nothing and then claim its all a cover up anyway?

If people want real understanding they need to start reading, not listening to third hand opinions and bullshit posted on youtube. No wonder the level of reseach has degraded over the years as people use shit sources.

To see the "Craft" truly at work and reasonably within "plain sight" to the discerning "eye"....Look no further than the French revolution and "Napoleon"
Or
If your interest isn't piqued there , have a bash at "The American War of States Rights"
There's another similar situation to gain and glean insight into operations and how the craft "Integrates" itself on both sides to push towards the desired outcome

No substance you say......

In fact you could pick any number of Wars or "Black flag events" since The Crusades....and have a good chance of landing on the shekals .....But the two above mentioned can show you how deeply its gotten of recent times to be fair

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Old 29-08-2018, 06:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by iamawaveofthesea View Post
you think i'm someone who doesn't engage with books?

all i was saying is that everyones different and as much as i love books not everyone is equipped for book learning

that doesn't mean they are stupid as there are different types of smarts and there are many different talents

so some people might be more suited to learning through talk and if you are someone who has earned knowledge through your efforts then there may be people who would be interested to hear what you have to say but maybe they can't grapple with a big brick of a book

as for 'earning' the knowledge they would be earning it by listening to you as not everyone is a willing listener
Especially when they DONT want to hear(or others to hear) what you have to say.....
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Old 29-08-2018, 07:25 PM   #19
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i'm not speaking about the knowledge but how it is transmitted
Well Im of the school that belives all the knowledge you need is within and the first gate at the oracle of Dlephi had 'Know Thyself' written above it.
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Old 29-08-2018, 07:29 PM   #20
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Well Im of the school that belives all the knowledge you need is within and the first gate at the oracle of Dlephi had 'Know Thyself' written above it.

Yeah right.....as long as youve a "brother" to lean on...Know thyself my ass.....Blinded sheeps following false light if ever there was a bunch of fools gathered ....

Im of the "Skool" Paths were made for fools who cannot find their own way....how bout them apples for symbols

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