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View Poll Results: Do you believe the claims?
Yes 75 52.45%
No 44 30.77%
I don't follow these kinds of stories 5 3.50%
Undecided 19 13.29%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-02-2015, 10:38 AM   #641
jonquays
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Originally Posted by waxedsoul View Post
I'm not familiar with that story.



That's the point. It should have been the police's JOB to gather the evidence!! If there's no evidence it's because the alleged have had ample time to get rid of it. If the story is not true, and I certainly DO NOT 'want it to be true', thanks very much, then the case remains just as sinister given that children of their age should have no concept of sexual conduct, molestation or murdering babies.
Not familiar with the Hollie Grieg story? You must be the only person here who isn't.

You said "If there's no evidence it's because the alleged have had ample time to get rid of it" without also saying it could also be the case that there simply is no evidence because those people were innocent. Again, we do not know so should sit on that fence till there is ample enough proof (not hearsay) to show which is the side to sit on.

If you go back and read through, my posts you will see that I made exactly that point, that the fact that the children told such a story is disturbing enough in itself, whether true or not.

I know that many people do not like my stance and I am not claiming the story is not true. Please do not misunderstand this. I am just trying to be the voice of reason.

It was not that long ago that witches were innocent if they drowned but guilty if they floated and were then burnt at the stake. Surely we have progressed from that type of thinking? I would like to think we have.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:40 AM   #642
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Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
Regardless of whether the videos are hoax or real, children has already been mentally damaged either way and they will need an extensive therapy because they have been taught that killing and sexual abuse is something people do like normal. And at that young age, it's a cruicial time, as everything gets into their subconscious. That's how I look at it.
And I do not disagree with you in the slightest on this and have made the same point already.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:44 AM   #643
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So, after she/they went to the police and it all went pear-shaped and the children were removed from her/their custody, who did all the investigating to gather the names and details of buildings used, etc? Had they determined all that information before they went to the police, or since? I'm not imagining they'd have got the opportunity to ask such questions to their children after they'd been taken into custody, so it appears all this evidence must have been gathered between the time of the holiday when it all came out, and the time the children were removed from the mother's care.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:49 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by alf hearted View Post
So, after she/they went to the police and it all went pear-shaped and the children were removed from her/their custody, who did all the investigating to gather the names and details of buildings used, etc? Had they determined all that information before they went to the police, or since? I'm not imagining they'd have got the opportunity to ask such questions to their children after they'd been taken into custody, so it appears all this evidence must have been gathered between the time of the holiday when it all came out, and the time the children were removed from the mother's care.
They are not going to arrest all these people overnight..

Even if it's fake it's a good glimpse into the thought processes of some people.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:50 AM   #645
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From the text in your vid -

"These children are protected, which is why we can share their testimony with you."

Protected by whom? If everything claimed is true, they are far from safe in the custody of the authorities who are supposedly not investigating these claims diligently.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:51 AM   #646
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so disenting voices arent allowed?
many things have been highlighted throughout this thread,
that shud at least have people questioning the validity of this.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:51 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by jonquays View Post
Not familiar with the Hollie Grieg story? You must be the only person here who isn't.

You said "If there's no evidence it's because the alleged have had ample time to get rid of it" without also saying it could also be the case that there simply is no evidence because those people were innocent. Again, we do not know so should sit on that fence till there is ample enough proof (not hearsay) to show which is the side to sit on.

If you go back and read through, my posts you will see that I made exactly that point, that the fact that the children told such a story is disturbing enough in itself, whether true or not.

I know that many people do not like my stance and I am not claiming the story is not true. Please do not misunderstand this. I am just trying to be the voice of reason.

It was not that long ago that witches were innocent if they drowned but guilty if they floated and were then burnt at the stake. Surely we have progressed from that type of thinking? I would like to think we have.
Yes, but I'd say it's been handled very reasonably as it is, on this forum- people are justifiably upset and confused and are looking for answers- mostly, as to why this hasn't been properly investigated by the police!! No one is suggesting a stampede to go and 'burn the dirty paedos', as you seem to be alluding to- I find it rather condescending that you clearly feel in a position to somehow be the 'voice of reason' here??!!

Have the delays meant that evidence could be destroyed? Of course! That's why this case hinges on the unusual identifying characteristics of the alleged abusers- irrespective of even a medical examination for the children, they would have no way of knowing such things unless they'd actually seen the intimate areas for themselves- and if so- just what conclusions can you infer from that, exactly??

Young children making the most horrific accusations and you think it might be a bit embarrassing for the adults concerned to submit to a 5 minute check with a licensed professional?

Who are you?
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:52 AM   #648
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Originally Posted by waxedsoul View Post

I don't know jonquays agenda here.
Simply to get people to remember what common sense is before rushing to judgement. Not every accusation made on the internet is true. I am only trying to get people to realise that. Is that so wrong?

If the story turns out to be true then I am behind you all the way but just consider for one moment that it isn't. Can you really not see the point I am trying to make?

Why must it come down to my having a sinister motive for simply asking that people be cautious? And especially more cautious given that the same names are involved in this case who were involved in the last internet viral pedo satanic panic case with many eerie similarities.
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:58 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by waxedsoul View Post
They went to the police first didn't they? Presumably assuming that the police would be the ones to set up a sting operation, y'know, do their jobs, like.

Well that went well for them, didn't it. Children taken into care; mother's residence order cancelled; INCREASED contact for the father and decreased contact for the mother; children retract statements; mother now accused of contempt of court.
Again, you are rushing to judgement and only believing what you have been told. So again I remind you of the Down's Syndrome girl's case which turned out not to be true and also involved the same people pushing the story.

There are two sides to every story. You have only heard one. Why are you so eager to believe it without question?
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:02 AM   #650
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Lawyers want ‘Papa Kills Babies’ removed from the internet.
Those videos need to be removed from the internet if only because if the story is true then it is illegal to identify victims of abuse.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:02 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by jonquays View Post
Simply to get people to remember what common sense is before rushing to judgement. Not every accusation made on the internet is true. I am only trying to get people to realise that. Is that so wrong?

If the story turns out to be true then I am behind you all the way but just consider for one moment that it isn't. Can you really not see the point I am trying to make?

Why must it come down to my having a sinister motive for simply asking that people be cautious? And especially more cautious given that the same names are involved in this case who were involved in the last internet viral pedo satanic panic case with many eerie similarities.
No one is rushing to judgement, though. For me personally, I was initially shocked and horrified, then questioned the veracity of it myself.

However, it reaches a point where upon balance, you start to formulate an opinion, having considered the evidence before you. Is it beyond all reasonable doubt? NO. Of course not, and I don't see anyone here behaving like some crazed loon baying for blood.

But on balance, do the children's claims warrant further investigation? Yes, absolutely. Has this been done? And if not, why not? It's called weighing up the evidence- do we have all the facts at present? No. But as the evidence stands right now, is it not even more damaging to the children's cause (and to others who have been abused and may be reading this wondering whether to come forward)- to not at the very least give their testimony the benefit of the doubt?

Would you not agree, jonquays?

Last edited by waxedsoul; 10-02-2015 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:04 AM   #652
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noone is rushing to judgement jeez realy have u read the thread
people r being shouted down for dissenting.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:07 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by mutoh View Post
noone is rushing to judgement jeez realy have u read the thread
people r being shouted down for dissenting.
Yup. If I hadn't kept being asked to justify my opinions, I'd have half as many posts in this thread.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:09 AM   #654
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Originally Posted by mutoh View Post
noone is rushing to judgement jeez realy have u read the thread
people r being shouted down for dissenting.
Well it's all relative I guess, compared to what's going on in the other forum, I'd say this one's pretty tame.

Last edited by waxedsoul; 10-02-2015 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:10 AM   #655
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http://www.drandrewwiener.co.uk/


http://www.andywiener.com/about.html

this guy is the child psychiatrist at Tavistock.Here are some of his photos/work.Interesting don´t you think?









http://www.andywiener.com/about_life_stories.html

Last edited by pinochio; 10-02-2015 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:11 AM   #656
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ive followed it all the way thru,
n from the very start the majority have swallowed this
while completely ignoring any of the objections a few of us have raised.
urself n jonquays doing most of the legwork of course!
not a single question ive raised has ever been answered not one.
seems people wud rather ignore the glaring issues with this.
its like they want it to be true.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:12 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by silent revolution View Post
jonquays, you come across as a paedophile protector. Have you watched the 21 videos?

I'm actually a bit disturbed by your input in this thread and feel it is maybe you who does not have the ability to differentiate between real and fake. It's either that or you are maybe a member of the 77th brigade, or possibly a satanist yourself. Sorry if I am getting personal here, but I smell a rat.
Maybe it's that you are just in a state of disbelieve that these sort of things can happen in your reality, but let me assure you that they do and will continue to happen unless people stop turning a blind eye to these evils.

Peace, love, harmony and wisdom
WTF total slur for questioning total disgrace right there
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:13 AM   #658
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http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/427...ce-to-a-school

Pedo commits 'suicide' after visiting Christ Church school in Brondesbury, London.


Last night former London mayor Ken Livingstone, who was also at the careers day, told the Sunday Express he did not meet Wood. He said: “There were a couple of other people next to me at the table answering questions from the pupils but none of them was Simon Wood.''

''On his visit to Christ Church, dressed in his pilot’s uniform, he regaled children with stories of flying around the world. He doled out sweets and brought in a model plane with an African-themed tail to show the class.
It was the same ploy authorities say he used to groom children while on charity missions to Africa.''

''Though the careers day came before his arrest this year, the school is facing serious questions over its decision to invite Wood, because he had already been arrested in 2000 for indecently assaulting another schoolgirl when he was a volunteer for Diabetes UK.''

Last edited by chedder; 10-02-2015 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:16 AM   #659
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Originally Posted by waxedsoul View Post
Yes, but I'd say it's been handled very reasonably as it is, on this forum- people are justifiably upset and confused and are looking for answers- mostly, as to why this hasn't been properly investigated by the police!! No one is suggesting a stampede to go and 'burn the dirty paedos', as you seem to be alluding to- I find it rather condescending that you clearly feel in a position to somehow be the 'voice of reason' here??!!

Have the delays meant that evidence could be destroyed? Of course! That's why this case hinges on the unusual identifying characteristics of the alleged abusers- irrespective of even a medical examination for the children, they would have no way of knowing such things unless they'd actually seen the intimate areas for themselves- and if so- just what conclusions can you infer from that, exactly??

Young children making the most horrific accusations and you think it might be a bit embarrassing for the adults concerned to submit to a 5 minute check with a licensed professional?

Who are you?
You think that showing those children's faces all over the world without a thought or naming accused people and putting up their adresses and phone numbers when they may be innocent is reasonable? That is the difference between you and me then.

And yes people are emotionally riled up which is understandable but given the people involved in this case also, maybe that was the intention. You have no idea if you are being played and who better than Tavistock to know how to push people's buttons? Including your increasing dislike of me for simply asking that you stop and think for moment.

Tell me one thing in this case that could be used in a court of law that you can tell me is 100% proven to be true?
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Old 10-02-2015, 11:16 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by mutoh View Post
ive followed it all the way thru,
n from the very start the majority have swallowed this
while completely ignoring any of the objections a few of us have raised.
urself n jonquays doing most of the legwork of course!
not a single question ive raised has ever been answered not one.
seems people wud rather ignore the glaring issues with this.
its like they want it to be true.
No. It's like we want to see this properly investigated and true justice for those children served. Something wrong with that???
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