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Old 31-03-2009, 02:18 PM   #61
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again, a claim without specifics or evidence? talk to me about one example, and I will look at it.
No. You tell me an atrocity perpetrated by the military. If you can't come up with one, it will tell me a lot about you.
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Old 31-03-2009, 02:20 PM   #62
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No. You tell me an atrocity perpetrated by the military. If you can't come up with one, it will tell me a lot about you.
I'm not making claims that the military commit attrocities - whereas you appear to be doing so. The onus is on you to justify your claims. If you can't do that, ie. if you have not got evidence to back up such claims, then you shouldn't make accusations in the first place should you?
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Old 31-03-2009, 02:22 PM   #63
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Old 31-03-2009, 02:39 PM   #64
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Having a nice cup of shut the fuck up?
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Old 31-03-2009, 03:12 PM   #65
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Default the news is fake

Honestly those photos on the hate for heroes article look staged to me. Look at the one with the big "war criminals" sign and the "british government terrorist government sign". That photo screams fake to me, especially the placement in front of Lloyds TSB, and the facial expressions on the protesters... anyone else feel this way??

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Old 01-04-2009, 10:55 PM   #66
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I totally agree, biblegirl. Everything about it looks like an op. It looks just like phony Iraq protests I have seen pictures of.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:07 AM   #67
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Having a nice cup of shut the fuck up?
Those are Americans, they have different rules!!!!

Can all be judged by a few bad eggs?
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:10 AM   #68
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Honestly those photos on the hate for heroes article look staged to me. Look at the one with the big "war criminals" sign and the "british government terrorist government sign". That photo screams fake to me, especially the placement in front of Lloyds TSB, and the facial expressions on the protesters... anyone else feel this way??
This is only because you want to believe it so that it will fit in nicely with conspiracy beliefs.

It is easy to make such statements but have you got anything to back this up? I would reckon you dont otherwise you would have posted it.

Sometimes I think conspiracy theorists are incapable of looking at the world as it is, they always have to put their own spin on things and claim things are lies, etc. True there are many lies in the world of politics but not everything is fake or manipulated.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:14 AM   #69
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I totally agree, biblegirl. Everything about it looks like an op. It looks just like phony Iraq protests I have seen pictures of.
Yawn, got any proof or is it just a 'feeling'. Feelings are nice arent they, they give you the sensation of belief without requiring one shred of proof. Once people are hooked on the feeling they often claim no proof is required. How convenient.

Can you explain why it looks like an Op? what would an op look like and how would an outsider know? you dont feel that these are people who have been twisted by their clerics into believing all sorts of crap? it seems to happen in plenty of other places. It is my opinion that their clerics use such people for political agendas. Just look at the people who fund them and their schools. Maybe if they dont do as they are told the cash will stop coming in. Money is often more influencial than religion even if it is not obvious.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:25 AM   #70
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so no one responded with any specifics on these 'attrocities' committed by the UK or the US did they?

if it was such a big issue, you could come up with at least one example between you surely.


theres a lot of talk, a lot of generalisations on these threads, and when asked to provide examples and be specific, people suddenly go quiet.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:31 AM   #71
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This is only because you want to believe it so that it will fit in nicely with conspiracy beliefs.

It is easy to make such statements but have you got anything to back this up? I would reckon you dont otherwise you would have posted it.

Sometimes I think conspiracy theorists are incapable of looking at the world as it is, they always have to put their own spin on things and claim things are lies, etc. True there are many lies in the world of politics but not everything is fake or manipulated.
He he, hello there marpat . You don't have to believe the news is fake for it to be fake. How about the same token Muslim guy is posing in both protester photos (green shirt, cheesy smile, you can't miss him), although they are obviously in different locations...how about the last line of the article:

"DO YOU know any of the protesters? Call The Sun on 020 7782 4104, text 63000 or email [email protected]"

LOL!
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:51 AM   #72
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He he, hello there marpat . You don't have to believe the news is fake for it to be fake. How about the same token Muslim guy is posing in both protester photos (green shirt, cheesy smile, you can't miss him), although they are obviously in different locations...how about the last line of the article:

"DO YOU know any of the protesters? Call The Sun on 020 7782 4104, text 63000 or email [email protected]"

LOL!
Well the Sun will put that in so they can interview those people, or at least dig a bit of dirt on them. Typical journalism.

Personally I dont believe the papers, which is why I only tend to read them when I am bored. I have no doubt that those protesters were serious though. The thing is that they get a lot of their push from their clerics, who are funded by foreign countries, which claim to be financially supporting their 'schools'. Some of them are hard line Saudi schools which promote values which are extremely oppresive. Thing is that should they stop pushing such views then that cash will dry up.

To me it means nothing if the same guy went to two protests. People are capable of moving around quickly if they have vehicles, etc. Maybe he pushed himself towards the camera to get some publicity, there are lots of vain people out there. I might consider the photo a fake if it was exactly the same person at two parades and they were at the same time. But what if there were twins trying to get as big a presence as possible? it is possible isnt it.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:10 AM   #73
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so no one responded with any specifics on these 'attrocities' committed by the UK or the US did they?

if it was such a big issue, you could come up with at least one example between you surely.


theres a lot of talk, a lot of generalisations on these threads, and when asked to provide examples and be specific, people suddenly go quiet.
You were having your nice cup, but didn't even know it. I don't know what your deal is, but I can't see how your posts relate to reality at all.
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:09 PM   #74
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Yawn, got any proof or is it just a 'feeling'. Feelings are nice arent they, they give you the sensation of belief without requiring one shred of proof. Once people are hooked on the feeling they often claim no proof is required. How convenient.

Can you explain why it looks like an Op? what would an op look like and how would an outsider know? you dont feel that these are people who have been twisted by their clerics into believing all sorts of crap? it seems to happen in plenty of other places. It is my opinion that their clerics use such people for political agendas. Just look at the people who fund them and their schools. Maybe if they dont do as they are told the cash will stop coming in. Money is often more influencial than religion even if it is not obvious.
It looks like an op because of what I already said. There are obviously phony Iraqi protests I have seen pictures of and the posters are much like the ones in this article, with strangely neat and uniform lettering. The fake Iraqi protest photos also had agents that appeared in several different shots. It's not "proof." I don't know how you can prove an opinion, but it is evidence.

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Old 02-04-2009, 07:59 PM   #75
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It looks like an op because of what I already said. There are obviously phony Iraqi protests I have seen pictures of and the posters are much like the ones in this article, with strangely neat and uniform lettering. The fake Iraqi protest photos also had agents that appeared in several different shots. It's not "proof." I don't know how you can prove an opinion, but it is evidence.
And you dont feel that they could have had things manufactured from a common source, which is why they may look similar?

Dont you think that if it was an op that they would use very different pics to prevent people spotting similarities? do you think they would be caught out by some amateur conspiracy theorist? I think you over-estimate your ability.

Agents in different shots? how would you know who an agent is and can you back up this claim with some pictures.

Why do you wish to deny that fact that those protests happened? is this what a truthseeker does, deny facts and offer false theories? I am glad I dont live inside the mind of somebody like you
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:24 PM   #76
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You go off the rails a lot with statements like "Why do you wish to deny that fact that those protests happened?" What can I do with a question like that? It's a non-sequitor.

It looks like the staged protests against Saddam by Iraqis from when the statue of Saddam was toppled. They made it look like there were throngs of Iraqis going wild, but in reality there were a relative handful of agents and paid citizens. I'm saying that the presentation by the protestors with the signs in this article looks a lot like the presentation in the statue farce.

Why don't you tell me an atrocity by the British military since you aren't interested in American atrocities? I am sure if you try really hard you can come up with one. I can but I think it's a ridiculous turn for the thread to take. It's a waste of time. You have already stated that you don't trust information from the media, so nothing short of a first-hand account is going to satisfy you and I am not playing that game.
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:44 PM   #77
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You go off the rails a lot with statements like "Why do you wish to deny that fact that those protests happened?" What can I do with a question like that? It's a non-sequitor.

It looks like the staged protests against Saddam by Iraqis from when the statue of Saddam was toppled. They made it look like there were throngs of Iraqis going wild, but in reality there were a relative handful of agents and paid citizens. I'm saying that the presentation by the protestors with the signs in this article looks a lot like the presentation in the statue farce.

Why don't you tell me an atrocity by the British military since you aren't interested in American atrocities? I am sure if you try really hard you can come up with one. I can but I think it's a ridiculous turn for the thread to take. It's a waste of time. You have already stated that you don't trust information from the media, so nothing short of a first-hand account is going to satisfy you and I am not playing that game.

Thing is I know people who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet to go there myself. I have never heard anybody tell stories anything like what people go on about in here.

Do you trust the media, or just when they print something you like the look of?

You are trying to compare something that happened in Iraq years ago with something that happened recently in the UK? what are your sources what qualifies you to judge if something is true or false?
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:15 PM   #78
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Dont you think that this is due to the fact that they do not suffer abuse from the public? the have been many cases of military people being harrassed for being in a public place in uniform. I know of cases where soldiers have been forced to change clothes on the tarmac at an airport just so they dont have to pass through areas where possibly hostile civilians are.

The people in the jobs you mention are well paid, better paid than many soldiers. Dont see them being spat on in public for their jobs as well. Maybe we should have a massive protest when the next helicopter comes in from the north sea, protesting against oil rig workers who are the labourers of the corporations that are making everybodies life a misery.

Just because you perceive a cult of hero worship by reading a tabloid this does not make it factual. Perhaps you should try talking to some soldiers and ask them if they idolised by the public.
Funnily you should say that! The latest edition of that intellectual broadsheet The Sun has published an editorial calling on all government workers to take a pay freeze, but stating that the armed forces are an exception and deserve a 2%+ payrise. that is totally unjust! Not that the forces don't deserve a payrise, just that the rest of do too! We're all doing tough high-risk jobs (Howe many healthcare staff lose their lives to their job. Lots! We're in a high-risk group for infection, but also stress and mental illness)

I've spoken to lots of soldiers and opinions on your question appear to be mixed. But then are they in a position to make an informed judgement? One tends to notice social status only when one is deprived of it.

You know very well that I'm opposed to the kind of harrasment the troops sometimes get (see the opening post) and I've told you that nobody in society can claim to be lilly-white. Yes, oil rig workers are working for Big Petro, just like I'm serving big Pharma.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:38 PM   #79
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Thing is I know people who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet to go there myself. I have never heard anybody tell stories anything like what people go on about in here.

Do you trust the media, or just when they print something you like the look of?

You are trying to compare something that happened in Iraq years ago with something that happened recently in the UK? what are your sources what qualifies you to judge if something is true or false?
I'm sure there are many, many stories you will never hear. What you have heard means nothing to me.

I don't trust the media any more than I trust anything. I always use my mind to discern the relative truth.

I'm not trying. I am comparing them. I don't need "sources" to qualify me to judge anything. If I want to judge something I will. Those placards are highly reminiscent of the other ones to me. Why are you trying to have a factual argument about my opinion. I'd rather you don't bother me about trying to "prove" my opinion. It's not possible. You want to see the placards I am referring to, just ask. It doesn't mean I'm going to take the time though.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:39 AM   #80
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Funnily you should say that! The latest edition of that intellectual broadsheet The Sun has published an editorial calling on all government workers to take a pay freeze, but stating that the armed forces are an exception and deserve a 2%+ payrise. that is totally unjust! Not that the forces don't deserve a payrise, just that the rest of do too! We're all doing tough high-risk jobs (Howe many healthcare staff lose their lives to their job. Lots! We're in a high-risk group for infection, but also stress and mental illness)

I've spoken to lots of soldiers and opinions on your question appear to be mixed. But then are they in a position to make an informed judgement? One tends to notice social status only when one is deprived of it.

You know very well that I'm opposed to the kind of harrasment the troops sometimes get (see the opening post) and I've told you that nobody in society can claim to be lilly-white. Yes, oil rig workers are working for Big Petro, just like I'm serving big Pharma.

I think many other people should get pay rises to and the health sector hs been neglected but this in not the fault of the military. My wife is a nurse so I know exactly what risks exist. She was booted in the chest once and the hospital didnt want to acknowledge it.

The government are wankers so its no suprise that they are upsetting people. They did not freeze their own pay either.
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