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Old 21-03-2009, 09:48 PM   #21
lightgiver
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We never got a parade after the 1st gulf war,1 weeks leave and back to work
Firemen get it easy also,and it impossible to join,unless you have family members who get 1st refusal(told from the horses mouth),i applied about 7 times after leaving the forces,never got a sniff,thousands apply for a few vacancy's,so i just give up bothering.

No never been thought of as special, more like put onI have seen immigrants treated with more special preference.
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Old 23-03-2009, 10:08 AM   #22
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Well if I come across any admirers or people who think that my job makes me some sport of special hero or something then I will let you know. If I get invited to the ranks of the social elite then I will post something about those dizzy heights.

Why does Marc Almond not mention being a hospital porter? because its not a glamorous job I guess. Maybe he was embarrased at being one. Who knows.

The fact is that I know plenty of people who have been to war zones and there has been no homecoming parade, no special welcome except by their family and friends. They come from those places, have some leave then go back to work, no press coverage, no hero worship, etc.

Often peoples jobs are mentioned in the news no matter what background they are from.

Talking about the fire strike it was more than the army covering, it was all branches of the forces. I know a number of instances when people were saved from serious injury because of their actions. I had to cover for somebodies sick leave in one of the areas. I think the firemen get a bit too much praise. It takes them months to use a fire engines when it was proven that people could learn to use it a lot faster. It just pissed them off because it made them look inefficient. They used to pass the building and be very nice until they realised that their strike was not working and then they got really nasty, shouting abuse, etc. They want over £30k for getting cats out of trees when there are soldiers risking being blown up every day some of whom are on little over £20k. They knew how much they got paid and what the job entailed when they applied. I think the whole thing was nothing but a scam or distraction.

You can see it as gloficiation if you wish but I am not seeing any coming in my direction. Personally I would not want it. I couldnt give a turd about having a big parade or something. I would rather just go him and chill. I am sure many of the troops feel the same. The reason they are put on parade is because of the negative events that happened in Peterborough. It never used to happen before then.

Your statement about Marc Almond contradicts what you say later on in the post. Hospital Portering is not a glamourous job. Well that's is precisely what I mean about glorification. Why are some jobs glamourous and not others?

You're being unfair to the firemen you know. Yes, people can behave like idiots sometimes, like when they're on strike and someone covers. I remember the way "scabs" were treated during the miner's strike. But they do a hell of a lot more than get cats out of trees. They risk their lives to save others. Yes, they earn more than a soldier does and maybe that is unfair, but a soldier enjoys far more glamour. I'm not saying soldiers should not be paid more; only that firemen do not deserve less just because a few of them get stroppy during the strike. Here's a solution: Why don't the fire brigade donate some of their money to the forces and the forces donate some of their glamour to the fire brigade?
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Old 23-03-2009, 12:21 PM   #23
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Military jobs are not glamourous. Just because they get some press coverage it does not mean there is a cult of hero worship. If it were true then why are recruiting figures falling? why are people not joining if there is all this hype and glamour?

I have no sympathy for striking firemen. I saw many people dropped in deep shit because of their strike, people who were due to go abroad for months being forced to live away from their families before being sent abroad just because a bunch of moaning firemen got greedy. I blame that wanker that started the strike, telling them they were worth £30K+ when he himself was on over £85K and not risking his life!!! forgot his name now. I remember when I was up in Perth most of the fires were caused by kids wanting to see one of those Green Goddess' having to be used. There were very few actual fires, which must show that firemen spend a lot of their time sitting around and not risking their lives. Many infantry troops get paid even less yet they are in far more danger.
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Old 25-03-2009, 11:36 PM   #24
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Military jobs are not glamourous. Just because they get some press coverage it does not mean there is a cult of hero worship.
Yes it does. Have you not seen the newspapers!?

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If it were true then why are recruiting figures falling? why are people not joining if there is all this hype and glamour?
Hype and glamour are not the only reason why people select a career you know. Maybe the current rise in consciousness means that morality and non-Comnformism is now finally becoming a factor. Of course it takes more than merely not joining the forces to be truly free, but it's a very significant symbolic change.


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I have no sympathy for striking firemen. I saw many people dropped in deep shit because of their strike, people who were due to go abroad for months being forced to live away from their families before being sent abroad just because a bunch of moaning firemen got greedy. I blame that wanker that started the strike, telling them they were worth £30K+ when he himself was on over £85K and not risking his life!!! forgot his name now. I remember when I was up in Perth most of the fires were caused by kids wanting to see one of those Green Goddess' having to be used. There were very few actual fires, which must show that firemen spend a lot of their time sitting around and not risking their lives. Many infantry troops get paid even less yet they are in far more danger
Are they? Are you sure? Have you checked out the statisitcs? I know for a fact that oil rig worker, deep sea fisherman and demolition operative are the three most dangerous jobs one can do (2004 American Almanac). How much do those people earn? And do they get the glorification? Where are the headlines in The Sun which go: OUR BRAVE BOYS WHO RISK THEIR LIVES SO WE CAN ENJOY FISH AND CHIPS?
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Old 26-03-2009, 12:26 PM   #25
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Yes it does. Have you not seen the newspapers!?



Are they? Are you sure? Have you checked out the statisitcs? I know for a fact that oil rig worker, deep sea fisherman and demolition operative are the three most dangerous jobs one can do (2004 American Almanac). How much do those people earn? And do they get the glorification? Where are the headlines in The Sun which go: OUR BRAVE BOYS WHO RISK THEIR LIVES SO WE CAN ENJOY FISH AND CHIPS?
Dont you think that this is due to the fact that they do not suffer abuse from the public? the have been many cases of military people being harrassed for being in a public place in uniform. I know of cases where soldiers have been forced to change clothes on the tarmac at an airport just so they dont have to pass through areas where possibly hostile civilians are.

The people in the jobs you mention are well paid, better paid than many soldiers. Dont see them being spat on in public for their jobs as well. Maybe we should have a massive protest when the next helicopter comes in from the north sea, protesting against oil rig workers who are the labourers of the corporations that are making everybodies life a misery.

Just because you perceive a cult of hero worship by reading a tabloid this does not make it factual. Perhaps you should try talking to some soldiers and ask them if they idolised by the public.
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Old 26-03-2009, 02:07 PM   #26
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And what’s more any military action in the War on Terror may be carried out by the Forces, but those Forces are paid for by our taxes. I find it unlikely that these protesters are all tax-rebels; therefore they are hypocrites. Everyone involved in the war has to share in the blame, whether you fight it or fund it.
A taxpayer is coerced to pay taxes under penalty of law. You cannot give consent if you are being coerced, therefore it is not hypocritical for a taxpayer to criticize soldiers who join willingly.
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Old 26-03-2009, 03:00 PM   #27
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I love the irony of the protesters. The extremists who kill women and children in the middle east for not covering their faces is ok but our troops who were ordered there are somehow the evil ones?

Hypocrites.
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Old 26-03-2009, 03:52 PM   #28
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I love the irony of the protesters. The extremists who kill women and children in the middle east for not covering their faces is ok but our troops who were ordered there are somehow the evil ones?

Hypocrites.

Yep, just look at how many honour killings have been carried out by these sort of people. Their choices are stick to the rules or die. They cant even tolerate a cartoon of Mohammed without resorting to violence and threats.
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Old 26-03-2009, 08:24 PM   #29
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Rig oil workers get paid well, and get a lot of time off - i know a lot of people who work with me end up going to the rigs as its a good life, hard work but good pay and half the year off.

deep sea fishing isnt dangerous in itself, it depends on WHERE they fish, and if you go for the crabs in the bearing sea it IS dangerous, however 2 trips can set people up to live for years because of the pay. - again im in the marine industry so i DO know this

demolition operative, not got a clue definately outside my sphere!

What i dislike is that the "army and forces" are constantly slammed by people preaching "peace for all" yes i would LOVE to see that, but since we CANT have it at the moment, how long do you think ANY country would last if they said "right chaps to comply with all this love heals stuff we no longer have any armed forces".

sorry the guys who protect us do a damn fine job, and anyone who slams them, just does not live in the real world in my view!

right ill get off my soap box now
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Old 27-03-2009, 02:55 PM   #30
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how long do you think ANY country would last if they said "right chaps to comply with all this love heals stuff we no longer have any armed forces
It would have to be all soldiers in every country refusing to join. A world wide decision to do what is right for everyone. You may not think it is realistic, but it is people who think like you who make it so.
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Old 27-03-2009, 03:29 PM   #31
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I would quite hapily say that every country should stop all armed assaults on each other, just like i would be happy if ALL armed forces were to say nope no more.

do you think its possible? what makes you honestly believe other countries would do so?? especially when their reigems are based on the threat of violence and the constant show of soldiers?
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Old 27-03-2009, 03:55 PM   #32
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Of course it is possible. It would be an effect of a revolution of consciousness in which it became clear to all humans what the most intelligent course of action is.
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Old 27-03-2009, 04:10 PM   #33
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your absolutely right. however place yourself in any governments position. you are now in charge of the safety of a country and the MILLIONS of citizens.

would YOU be the first country to make a stand by standing down all your armed forces and selling of your weaponry? you would be a much braver man than i!!
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Old 28-03-2009, 03:37 AM   #34
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It would be a new paradigm where virtually all humans "wake up" and take responsibility for what they do. There would be no one to order around.
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Old 28-03-2009, 08:54 AM   #35
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It would be a new paradigm where virtually all humans "wake up" and take responsibility for what they do. There would be no one to order around.
So when do you think that will be?

lets be honest there are a fair few on here that can see the sense in no wars and peaceful discussion of problems,
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Old 28-03-2009, 09:37 AM   #36
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Of course it is possible. It would be an effect of a revolution of consciousness in which it became clear to all humans what the most intelligent course of action is.
I think you are living in lala land. We could argue that anything is possible but how probable is it? do you think that millions of people around the world are just going to wake up one morning and decide they are going to lead good, non-violent lives? the transition from war to peace is not quick and in the meantime you need the safeguard of having a military. To just remove it is asking for trouble.

Back in the cold war the Soviets had infiltrated a number of their female special forces agents into protest groups at Greenham common, etc. The idea was to use such methods to subvert the governments while they themselves were constantly arming and preparing for potential war. By turning people against their nation such agents were used to weaken the public resolve.

Do you see what I am getting at? while many people in the west are going on about how we are bad for having a military other nations are getting ready for war, training, arming, etc. You can discount this as fear mongering if you wish but to deny it is to get caught with your pants down. Do you think this will just suddenly change? it could be argued that the whole peace movement is actually a creation of foreign enemies whos goal is to turn public opinion against nations they wish to attack. You dont seem to see many anti-war, peace protests in their countires do you.

Revolution in consciousness. its easy to make statements like that but I would like to see such a thing happen. Maybe young kids will not turn into chavs when this happens. Can you point to any period in history when there has been such a mass revolution in consciouness that brought everybody together in a good common cause?
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Old 28-03-2009, 02:55 PM   #37
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I'm not really concerned about the odds. If there is a chance I have to take it. Makes sense or no?
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Old 28-03-2009, 05:55 PM   #38
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It would be a new paradigm where virtually all humans "wake up" and take responsibility for what they do. There would be no one to order around.
As if
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Old 28-03-2009, 09:24 PM   #39
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As if
"As if" Could you please go into more detail on that Marpat, to help us fully understand your point of view.
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Old 29-03-2009, 12:48 AM   #40
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Do you know what a house nigger is, Marpat? It's from the time of overt slavery in the US. There were certain slaves who got to work in the house instead of the field because they were more willing to do the bidding of the master. I ain't no house nigger. How 'bout choo?
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