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Old 10-06-2013, 01:58 PM   #1
pali_gap
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Thumbs up Basic Income

The idea is not new, but 'the times' may have changed enough now to enable it, or the conscience of the people have progressed enough to finally accept it as a birth right for every Human.

Basic Income. What does it mean? It means just that, an income that is guaranteed to you whether you work or not, meaning without conditions.

The main debate against it is; "that people wouldn't work if they don't have to".

I personally find an idea that people wouldn't do anything if they are not scared for their survival ridiculous beyond measure. A type of brainwashing that has held our civilization in a tight grip for eons and it goes directly against the very basic human right, a right to live.

I would love to exist in a world that recognizes me an individual that can contribute to the society in its own way and without pressure. Having my basic need met are a sure motivator to get me to dedicate some of my free time on projects that can benefit me further and the society as a whole.

Basic Income, a new Human right

Unconditional Basic Income, a pettition
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:06 PM   #2
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What a beautifully artistic and colorful (and peaceful!) world we'd live in if such a thing was put into place. But that's not why money was invented, in the first place. If it was, money would never have been needed at all, but would have been this extraneous thing to humanity; like an extra limb that would eventually be discarded anyway.

Even still, it sounds like a great idea. And the position you presented about why people wouldnt' accept it (nobody would work, everybody would just loaf around, etc) is accurate: it's false. However that's not even why the elite wouldn't put it to use. The real reason they would never do it is BECAUSE of the positive work that humans would seek to endeavor, and that would counteract the original purpose of money anyway: to enslave.

Money is a curse upon the whole of humanity, and its inventers intended it to be such since it's inception. Almost nobody truly understands this, which is part of the spell. And yes, as occult as it sounds (and is), there is black magick associated with money, which is why perfectly good-natured people get angry when others talk bad about it. There's a spell on our minds. I'm priviledged to be free of that spell, but it also ostracizes me from my fellow man. So be it.The spell will not endure forever.

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Old 10-06-2013, 02:17 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by lionofjudah View Post
What a beautifully artistic and colorful (and peaceful!) world we'd live in if such a thing was put into place. But that's not why money was invented, in the first place. If it was, money would never have been needed at all, but would have been this extraneous thing to humanity; like an extra limb that would eventually be discarded anyway.

Even still, it sounds like a great idea. And the position you presented about why people wouldnt' accept it (nobody would work, everybody would just loaf around, etc) is accurate: it's false. However that's not even why the elite wouldn't put it to use. The real reason they would never do it is BECAUSE of the positive work that humans would seek to endeavor, and that would counteract the original purpose of money anyway: to enslave.

Money is a curse upon the whole of humanity, and its inventers intended it to be such since it's inception. Almost nobody truly understands this, which is part of the spell. And yes, as occult as it sounds (and is), there is black magick associated with money, which is why perfectly good-natured people get angry when others talk bad about it. There's a spell on our minds. I'm priviledged to be free of that spell, but it also ostracizes me from my fellow man. So be it.The spell will not endure forever.
Yep.

As corrupt and disgusting this world is, people can't seem to associate the issues we have to the need for money.

Competition can be healthy and good, but when people are competing for life, the right to have food, the right to exist.. Of course it's going to create a horrible situation for most of the world.

People do not seem to realise or acknowledge that creating mass poverty is very profitable for people at the top. Whether it's banks doing it, corporations, government... whoever, therefore, will always exist in any system that uses money. Expecting any kind of balance whatsoever in a money system is insane.

OP. Something like this would be nice, but it won't happen.. There's no way it will happen because "someone" will be losing. In order to create more income equality someone at the top has to lose a bit... And that's just never going to happen...

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Old 10-06-2013, 03:37 PM   #4
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The way I see it, the biggest obstacle to this are not the Elite but ordinary folks who oppose it under guise that its communistic and against some imaginary its the Human nature bs reason.., (conditioned to think in that way).

People need to wake up now more than ever and take a firm stand. It is gaining momentum, look at all the scandals happening as of late. People don't like intrusions to their privacy and GMO agenda and will take it to the streets. Also austerity is getting alot of people angry and rightfully so. Things are deff getting hot and heavy.

Lets just not lose focus here, this is a war with many battles and its to early to tell the outcome..
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:46 PM   #5
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If basic income, it has to be self-organized.

In the current debt-based system, basic income is an illusion anyway. We're held as collateral for public debt after all, that's why we have to be kept in the hamster wheels.

We're the cattle on the farms and we ought to produce.

Also consider, what the state hands you out, it can also take away from you. Our dependency on it will increase, and we're more likely to support its policies.

So again, if basic income, it has to be self-organized. We must come together in networks were we voluntarily agree to contribute some voluntary work that can create wealth and redistribute some of our income for the weaker ones.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:51 PM   #6
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You're up against human nature though.
Before long resentments arise because some think they are doing more than others.
Utopian communities have been notoriously short lived usually for that very reason.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by grandmasterp View Post
You're up against human nature though.
Before long resentments arise because some think they are doing more than others.
Utopian communities have been notoriously short lived usually for that very reason.
With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.

We do not live in a world in which the amount of work you do is related to how much money you have.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by herzmeister View Post
If basic income, it has to be self-organized.

In the current debt-based system, basic income is an illusion anyway. We're held as collateral for public debt after all, that's why we have to be kept in the hamster wheels.

We're the cattle on the farms and we ought to produce.

Also consider, what the state hands you out, it can also take away from you. Our dependency on it will increase, and we're more likely to support its policies.

So again, if basic income, it has to be self-organized. We must come together in networks were we voluntarily agree to contribute some voluntary work that can create wealth and redistribute some of our income for the weaker ones.
Yeah absolutely right. More people relying on the state is a very scary scenario indeed.

When they really pull the plug..... well.. thats when the storms come.

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Old 10-06-2013, 11:15 PM   #9
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With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about.

We do not live in a world in which the amount of work you do is related to how much money you have.
I completely agree with you.
I was posting about the idea of voluntary contribution of work or resources for the common good.
It's a great idea but it hasn't worked where it's been tried for the reason I posted.
Human nature.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pali_gap View Post
The idea is not new, but 'the times' may have changed enough now to enable it, or the conscience of the people have progressed enough to finally accept it as a birth right for every Human.

Basic Income. What does it mean? It means just that, an income that is guaranteed to you whether you work or not, meaning without conditions.

The main debate against it is; "that people wouldn't work if they don't have to".

I personally find an idea that people wouldn't do anything if they are not scared for their survival ridiculous beyond measure. A type of brainwashing that has held our civilization in a tight grip for eons and it goes directly against the very basic human right, a right to live.

I would love to exist in a world that recognizes me an individual that can contribute to the society in its own way and without pressure. Having my basic need met are a sure motivator to get me to dedicate some of my free time on projects that can benefit me further and the society as a whole.

Basic Income, a new Human right

Unconditional Basic Income, a pettition
'caught up in the sorcery of the queens head endorsing me'
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:23 PM   #11
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"Mincome" experiment:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...xperiment.html
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:57 PM   #12
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Question

Humans seek to exploit everything to ensure their own survival, including each other.



In nature, is that normal ?
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:01 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by grandmasterp View Post
I completely agree with you.
I was posting about the idea of voluntary contribution of work or resources for the common good.
It's a great idea but it hasn't worked where it's been tried for the reason I posted.
Human nature.
Well, it won't work in a monetary system I agree.. The reason is not human nature though.

As for a truly voluntary system without the use of money.. That hasn't been tried on a large scale.. It seems to work well with the communities that have it in place.

There's a community in Russia with a few thousand in a voluntary system.. Seems to work pretty well, although the inhabitants are a little crazy.... They believe a guy who lives there is the reincarnation of Jesus.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:06 AM   #14
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It might work if you were 'born into' a new system. If all you had known was a non-monetary world, then you would not be burdened with the pre-conditioning that we have.

Either that, or maybe our world has to be totally destroyed before we can make a clean break.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pali_gap View Post
The idea is not new, but 'the times' may have changed enough now to enable it, or the conscience of the people have progressed enough to finally accept it as a birth right for every Human.

Basic Income. What does it mean? It means just that, an income that is guaranteed to you whether you work or not, meaning without conditions.

The main debate against it is; "that people wouldn't work if they don't have to".

I personally find an idea that people wouldn't do anything if they are not scared for their survival ridiculous beyond measure. A type of brainwashing that has held our civilization in a tight grip for eons and it goes directly against the very basic human right, a right to live.

I would love to exist in a world that recognizes me an individual that can contribute to the society in its own way and without pressure. Having my basic need met are a sure motivator to get me to dedicate some of my free time on projects that can benefit me further and the society as a whole.

Basic Income, a new Human right

Unconditional Basic Income, a pettition
Wealthy countries are full of people who work, who don't need the money. The idea that most wouldn't work isn't true. Most would.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pali_gap View Post
The idea is not new, but 'the times' may have changed enough now to enable it, or the conscience of the people have progressed enough to finally accept it as a birth right for every Human.

Basic Income. What does it mean? It means just that, an income that is guaranteed to you whether you work or not, meaning without conditions.

The main debate against it is; "that people wouldn't work if they don't have to".

I personally find an idea that people wouldn't do anything if they are not scared for their survival ridiculous beyond measure. A type of brainwashing that has held our civilization in a tight grip for eons and it goes directly against the very basic human right, a right to live.

I would love to exist in a world that recognizes me an individual that can contribute to the society in its own way and without pressure. Having my basic need met are a sure motivator to get me to dedicate some of my free time on projects that can benefit me further and the society as a whole.

Basic Income, a new Human right

Unconditional Basic Income, a pettition
Stealing from others is not a basic right. Nor is it dignified.
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmasterp View Post
You're up against human nature though.
Before long resentments arise because some think they are doing more than others.
Utopian communities have been notoriously short lived usually for that very reason.
Yes, when surrounded by dark energies from looming predators bent on world domination, that seems to historically have been the case. However, calling it "human nature" is erroneous. Human nature can more accurately be viewed through the eyes of children. It's when people have been indoctrinated into the "dog eat dog" mentality that the "pit bull syndrome" comes into play, as demonstrated in society. The fact that it's called "human nature" is designed to keep people from considering viable alternatives, or rather, resorting to their original "game plan" of living the way Creator intends for us.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishin43diqs View Post
Stealing from others is not a basic right. Nor is it dignified.
Excuse me, stealing what exactly? I want to hear this argument. Who are thieves and what is being stolen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinda View Post
Humans seek to exploit everything to ensure their own survival, including each other.


In nature, is that normal ?
Yes in Nature, but Nature is in balance, while we Humans are not in balance with Nature. See what's wrong there? We have the ability to reason and we have the intuition on top. We can bend and stretch and imagine any possible outcome of our actions, to envision and to build whatever we desire. Better, more balance world or dystopian nightmare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herzmeister View Post
If basic income, it has to be self-organized.

In the current debt-based system, basic income is an illusion anyway. We're held as collateral for public debt after all, that's why we have to be kept in the hamster wheels.

We're the cattle on the farms and we ought to produce.

Also consider, what the state hands you out, it can also take away from you. Our dependency on it will increase, and we're more likely to support its policies.

So again, if basic income, it has to be self-organized. We must come together in networks were we voluntarily agree to contribute some voluntary work that can create wealth and redistribute some of our income for the weaker ones.
If we get our Basic Income rights lets say, they are unlikely to go away from us easily. Look at the women's rights, gays, African Americans, the labor rights(to the extent).. We have won those rights and kept them. It really comes down on our willingness to fight for our rights and the ability to not let them be taken away. It is our responsibility. But they want you to feel complacent about it of course. Don't protest, don't do anything, as nothing ever changes Just look at the history and that is easily disproved. But who cares about history nowadays..

And what is dept again? Artificial construct that can be erased if we demand it. Again we have all the power, if we are aware enough and have strong resolve to fight for what we want.

Anybody want to argue that?
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pali_gap View Post
If we get our Basic Income rights lets say, they are unlikely to go away from us easily. Look at the women's rights, gays, African Americans, the labor rights(to the extent).. We have won those rights and kept them. It really comes down on our willingness to fight for our rights and the ability to not let them be taken away. It is our responsibility. But they want you to feel complacent about it of course. Don't protest, don't do anything, as nothing ever changes Just look at the history and that is easily disproved. But who cares about history nowadays..
These were surely important steps that helped to grow the consciousness and awareness of people.

But if I'm cynical I'd say those were Pyrrhic victories. We were engaging with the wrong ally, the state.

As cattle you do not gain freedom by demanding more hay and 2cm bigger barns from the farmer. You gain freedom by breaking away from the farm, by opting out of the system, first by non-compliance, as David Icke says, then by erecting structures outside of it. And if you open your eyes you'll see that this is already happening. That's how you let the system starve.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:38 PM   #20
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If there is some kind of zero point income energy field I'm all for it.
The only other source I can think of is stealing.

Where is this "income" coming from?
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