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Old 25-08-2009, 08:32 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by filinfinland View Post
It is easy to sit behind these screens and pontificate, we will not be wiping the victims off our shoes at the end of our working day. We do not have to see the exit wounds when some one has been given a lesson in RESPEK by a 14yr old with a 9mm.
And do you think that "tasering people into compliance" will put an end to teens carrying guns?

And I as the question again: Has a police officer with a taser any chances against a 14yr old with a 9mm?

Tasers are not there to cut gun crime -after all, you don't carry a knife to a gun fight-, they are there to subdue the rest into compliance by sheer torture.

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Old 25-08-2009, 09:59 PM   #202
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And do you think that "tasering people into compliance" will put an end to teens carrying guns?

And I as the question again: Has a police officer with a taser any chances against a 14yr old with a 9mm?

Tasers are not there to cut gun crime -after all, you don't carry a knife to a gun fight-, they are there to subdue the rest into compliance by sheer torture.
I see your point but let's look at the issue of tazering people into compliance. I saw the news report in england about 3 officers tazering a man and then punching him while he was on the ground.

I have been tazered and i have been cuffed, not at the same time but the memory of both events is still quite clear. The man in question had been tazered twice, had been cuffed (which is excrutiatingly painfull) on one hand and was still resisting arrest.

Any one familiar with restraint and control teqniques would have recognised that the officer in question was then forced to punch the man on the anterior and medial deltoid muscles in order to weaken the mans arm so that the officer could complete the cuffing.

I consider myself pretty tough, for good reason, but, there is no way on this earth that i (or anyone else in their right mind) would have required 2 tazerings in combination with hand cuffs to be forced to comply. The key here is "in their right mind".

It seems to me that an awfull lot of the people who have been "tazered into compliance" have not considered that the officer in question does not know who they are, what they are capable of or what they may or may not be armed with.

I am not defending abuse of authority by any means but i think we need to see things from a broader perspective. As i stated before, the police are on the front line of a war that most people do not even know exists. The people they are fighting do not wear uniforms and so it is impossible for the police to know who is who.

And what is meant by compliance. To comply to what? they are unlikely to tazer you into a political or religious belief structure. Usually they will be tazering you to comply with an arrest order and if you are naive enough to believe that you can talk or fight your way out of that then perhaps the tazering might do you some good.

An officer with a tazer would only stand a chance against a kid or adult with a gun if he tazes them BEFORE they draw the weapon. THEY KNOW THIS, that's why they will draw the tazer first.

You don't take a knife to a gun fight??? you have been watching too many sean connery movies. Untill recently the police were obliged to attend any fight armed with a stick.

I am not trying to defend indefensibly actions, but, let's try to take a broader view. PeaCe out
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Old 26-08-2009, 12:14 PM   #203
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I see your point but let's look at the issue of tazering people into compliance. I saw the news report in england about 3 officers tazering a man and then punching him while he was on the ground.

I have been tazered and i have been cuffed, not at the same time but the memory of both events is still quite clear. The man in question had been tazered twice, had been cuffed (which is excrutiatingly painfull) on one hand and was still resisting arrest.

Any one familiar with restraint and control teqniques would have recognised that the officer in question was then forced to punch the man on the anterior and medial deltoid muscles in order to weaken the mans arm so that the officer could complete the cuffing.

I consider myself pretty tough, for good reason, but, there is no way on this earth that i (or anyone else in their right mind) would have required 2 tazerings in combination with hand cuffs to be forced to comply. The key here is "in their right mind".

It seems to me that an awfull lot of the people who have been "tazered into compliance" have not considered that the officer in question does not know who they are, what they are capable of or what they may or may not be armed with.

I am not defending abuse of authority by any means but i think we need to see things from a broader perspective. As i stated before, the police are on the front line of a war that most people do not even know exists. The people they are fighting do not wear uniforms and so it is impossible for the police to know who is who.

And what is meant by compliance. To comply to what? they are unlikely to tazer you into a political or religious belief structure. Usually they will be tazering you to comply with an arrest order and if you are naive enough to believe that you can talk or fight your way out of that then perhaps the tazering might do you some good.

An officer with a tazer would only stand a chance against a kid or adult with a gun if he tazes them BEFORE they draw the weapon. THEY KNOW THIS, that's why they will draw the tazer first.

You don't take a knife to a gun fight??? you have been watching too many sean connery movies. Untill recently the police were obliged to attend any fight armed with a stick.

I am not trying to defend indefensibly actions, but, let's try to take a broader view. PeaCe out
The Nottingham incident involved 4 officers tasering 3 times a man on the ground that posed absolutely no threat to them, to himself, or to any other member of the public. That man was tasered 3 times for refusing to put his hands on the back. Now tell me, how did 4 officers had detainees put their hands on the back before the use of tasers? Are 4 grown up men not enough to handcuff a supposed "drunken idiot"?

But don't think that everyone that get's tasered is resisting an arrest. And this is the main problem: officers do taser anyone for no more reason than refusing to obey and order; and that's what I mean by "torturing into compliance".

Now, about using tasers to cut gun crime: that's simply ridiculous. You are saying that officers do have a chance against guns because they will draw their tasers before the criminals, which I think is having too much faith that everything will go as planned. Obviously, and for the same reasons, a baton is not enough for this task -reason why the police all around the world don't use either-.

The whole "tasers are non-lethal substitutes to firearms" line is a complete lie to get people to accept them. But the truth is that:
  • Tasers are not safe nor "non-lethal"; 276 people have died already and many more suffer permanent injuries after being tasered.
  • Tasers are not a substitute to firearms, as they are constantly used in cases where a firearm would never be justified
  • Tasers are not a match against a "real" criminal with a firearm
  • Taser's use has been declared "a form of torture" by the UN
  • And tasers are not only carried by highly trained firearms officers

Half of Britain has been mislead to accept tasers -as well as the American public- when in fact a couple of wise guys are earning billions with those lies. All reports regarding the safety of tasers had been developed by Taser International, a company linked or contracted by them. A high ranking police officer is the official distributor of Taser International in the UK, and in the US the plot is linked to mayor Giuliani.

And besides the corruption and lies surrounding tasers, I'm willing to accept them if:
  • A "real" safe model is developed (as advertised)
  • Tasers are only used as a "real" substitute to firearms (as advertised)
  • And tasers are used only by highly trained firearms officers (as advertised)

In the meanwhile, it makes a lot of sense to continue as we were: Taser Free!!!

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Old 26-08-2009, 12:54 PM   #204
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you say resisting arrest, i say trying to defend oneself! how do you know they even arrested him b4 or after? because they told you? did they even bother to claim to be a non physical entity such as 'DA PISS'?
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Old 26-08-2009, 01:10 PM   #205
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Yes, that's another one: I noticed that too ofter people are accused and abused because of "resisting arrest".

Are you refering to this as "resisting arrest":

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Old 26-08-2009, 01:45 PM   #206
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bit of prob viewing vids, but if it's the video i think u referring to one has to wonder exactly how many times this has happened but never comes to light.....several dozen times a week methinks!

bigger story here. how did the video actually get out? somebody working in cctv room with a conscience? daddy or son in the 'conflict zone' and this guy was consequently shown special treatment? funny that nearly always the cctv evidence never reaches court......and the pigyobs word is simply accepted as evidence! when cctv is shown it is only from the point where the victim tries to defend himself.......

i am speaking from personal experience. numerous times! they actually filmed me being gang raped......

read the sig!

and anybody who believes that there was no footage of JC being shot repeatedly in the head obviously have something seriously wrong with them....
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Old 26-08-2009, 01:48 PM   #207
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and another thing, surely it stand's to reason that you can not actually be arrested for resisting arrest?

surely they would have to try and arrest you for something else b4 you could 'resist'?

but if u are successful in defending yourself they just label u a schizo, whack u full of drugs, choose a pretend solicitor for you and then put u on trial for murdering a non physical entity!!! think that is what they have planned for me.....
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Old 26-08-2009, 02:29 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by flyermay View Post

And besides the corruption and lies surrounding tasers, I'm willing to accept them if:
  • A "real" safe model is developed (as advertised)
  • Tasers are only used as a "real" substitute to firearms (as advertised)
  • And tasers are used only by highly trained firearms officers (as advertised)

In the meanwhile, it makes a lot of sense to continue as we were: Taser Free!!!
On the above points we agree. I would simply advise caution against tarring all police with the same brush. As i said before, the police are in a very bad situation and they do not know the solution. Perhaps the more enlightened on this forum could think of the solution and pass it on to the police.

In the meantime we as fellow humans could try to act with love and not expect others to make the first move. Give it a go, you might be surprised by the results. For the sake of all humanity, including the ones in uniforms.
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Old 26-08-2009, 02:51 PM   #209
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If you want to stop police from getting tazers, give them the information, but an alternative to apart from firearms and tazers, because unlike some members on this forum, who don't give a toss if a cop gets hurt or shot, they do themselves, they don't want to get hurt with attacks on officers around 40 000 a year mostly from attending domestic and drunken brawls however, they want to have something else to protect them, keeping in mind only two police services in the world are still unarmed. ours and new zealand, so they will have the attitude "well they can at least give us tazers". Now criticism such as "we have seen what you lot do in the media, so why should we trust you with tazers" is not going to pass, for one in the greater scheme of things, its the same media that tars them with the same brush, is the same one that tars us "conspiracy theorists" with the same brush.
But in their eyes it will be just another arm chair critic who has never had to get his hands dirty, this is in accordance to the abuse they recieve, and some shi* stirring articles, ask me and i can give you an example or two. This means that the police are less likely to listen to the public.

So best way to possibly get round it, is by showing them the effects, websites etc that offer information on how these "non" lethal weapons are in fact lethal.
People on here are making out that cops are spending the majority of their shifts going around zapping people with these tazers unnecesserily, but the majority of the time the tazers are used as the last resort, but funnily enough, times when they are used, aren't published by the media.

I was thinking, what other alternatives can there be ? i was thinking of, possibly slug guns, rubber bullets ? paintball guns ?
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Old 26-08-2009, 02:59 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by filinfinland View Post
On the above points we agree. I would simply advise caution against tarring all police with the same brush. As i said before, the police are in a very bad situation and they do not know the solution. Perhaps the more enlightened on this forum could think of the solution and pass it on to the police.

In the meantime we as fellow humans could try to act with love and not expect others to make the first move. Give it a go, you might be surprised by the results. For the sake of all humanity, including the ones in uniforms.
I agree that not every officer should be judged for the corruption and abuse from some of their colleagues, and that they are in a really bad situation. And the proof is that most senior officers are against junior officers with no firearms training carrying tasers.

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Old 26-08-2009, 03:07 PM   #211
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And I wouldn't be so sure that British officers do use tasers correctly most of the time. These are the official figures of taser use and number of complaints:

Year...........Complaint... Non complaint... Total
2004*............. 3 ................12 .............15
2005 ...............4 ................24............. 28
2006 ...............2 .................5............... 7
2007 ...............5 .................6 ..............11
2008† ............21 ...............10 ..............31
Total .............35 ................57 .............92
(Source: IPCC taser report)

You can clearly see that the number of complaints for misuse or abuse total a third. And they are getting worst each year, with more than two thirds complaining in 2008.

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Old 26-08-2009, 03:31 PM   #212
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I agree that not every officer should be judged for the corruption and abuse from some of their colleagues, and that they are in a really bad situation. And the proof is that most senior officers are against junior officers with no firearms training carrying tasers.
The police operates like alot of organisations, you stay in the low ranks, with the low pay, unless your a freemason that is. we all know why that is.
No one in the police, army, public services, you name it, admire this government, they work in the government for personal reasons, whether they are too help people, pay the bills, whatever. none of them have pictures of gordon brown on their walls or pray homage to new labour. Because of this we can convince them, but its a tricky thing convincign people about tptb.
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Old 26-08-2009, 03:34 PM   #213
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And I wouldn't be so sure that British officers do use tasers correctly most of the time. These are the official figures of taser use and number of complaints:

Year...........Complaint... Non complaint... Total
2004*............. 3 ................12 .............15
2005 ...............4 ................24............. 28
2006 ...............2 .................5............... 7
2007 ...............5 .................6 ..............11
2008† ............21 ...............10 ..............31
Total .............35 ................57 .............92
(Source: IPCC taser report)

You can clearly see that the number of complaints for misuse or abuse total a third. And they are getting worst each year, with more than two thirds complaining in 2008.
As much as i don't want to sound like a sheep, and those accounts of course have to be taken in consideration, but can they be heavily relied upon. If someone has been causing violence or trying to attack officers, they are hardly going to admit fair game to the cops for tazering them. Then again the accounts of the coppers can't always be taken as being 100% reliable, for obvious reasons.
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:29 AM   #214
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I hate these..
Of caurse and they can be lethal!
The electicity that is in your walls and passes through wires might be lethal,which is only 220~240 volts.
And if you think the suffer it puts you in..
Why do they have their globs ?
Those couchouck sticks ?
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:20 AM   #215
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Tazers can be defeated by spoons its a simple fact of physics, you can try it yourself if your brave enough
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Old 10-10-2009, 10:36 AM   #216
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Tazers can be defeated by spoons its a simple fact of physics, you can try it yourself if your brave enough
Do you have a link?
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:45 AM   #217
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

Taser warns against chest shots

By Dan Karpenchuk in Toronto
Posted 12/10/2009
Warning: Canadian police have been told to avoid firing Tasers into suspects' chests



Several Canadian police forces have adopted new directives which urge officers to avoid firing Tasers at people's chests.
The directive, from Taser International, says police officers should not target a suspect's chest if possible. Instead officers should aim at the back, lower abdomen or the legs.
The manufacturer says the risk of affecting an individual's heart is low from a chest shot, but officers will not be able to determine whether the suspect has been taking drugs or has an underlying heart condition that could cause cardiac arrest.
But the directive is not sitting well with some police officers.
Mike Sutherland is the president of the Winnipeg police association.
"It's going to be a difficult shot and in high-stress, high-volatility type scenarios that's not always going to be possible," he said.
Police forces in Winnipeg, Calgary, and Vancouver, as well as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, say they will follow the new directive.
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:43 AM   #218
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

Taser me, says SA Opposition leader

Posted 21/10/2009




Better option: Isobel Redmond says she's willing to be shot with a Taser (ABC News)



South Australian Opposition leader Isobel Redmond has offered to be tasered to prove the worth of the electrical stun guns for police.
The state's police force is currently conducting a review of the devices ahead of a recommendation on their use across the state.
The State Government says if police want Tasers, they will get them.
Ms Redmond says Tasers are much safer than guns, and she has proposed police be provided with 500 of them.
She says she is prepared to be tasered herself if it will help her argument.
"If it'll prove the point yes I will, but you know, if you ask me the same question about would I be prepared to be shot, then no," she said.
"We've got police who are out there confronting people who are in the midst of a psychotic outbreak, the choice between gun shooting or a Taser, I think that's a better option from both sides of the equation."
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Old 21-10-2009, 07:44 AM   #219
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

Liberal leader's Taser offer 'a stunt'

Posted 21/10/2009




The SA Government says if police want Tasers, they will get them



South Australian Premier Mike Rann has dismissed as a publicity stunt an undertaking by the Opposition Leader that she would be prepared to be hit by a Taser.
Isobel Redmond says she would go through with it if it helps her argument to equip the state's police with the electrical stun gun weapon.
The state's police force is currently conducting a review of the devices ahead of a recommendation on their use across the state.
The State Government says if police want Tasers they will get them, but Mr Rann says he wants the use of Tasers kept in perspective.
"Tasers aren't toys and policing isn't a game," he said.
"I think the Liberals should leave policing to the police and they should leave Tasers for dealing with violent criminals."
Earlier, Ms Redmond said Tasers were much safer than guns and has proposed police be provided with 500 of them.
She says she is prepared to be Tasered herself if it will help her argument.
"If it'll prove the point, yes I will. But if you ask me the same question about would I be prepared to be shot, then no," she said.
"We've got police who are out there confronting people who are in the midst of a psychotic outbreak.
"The choice between gun shooting or a Taser - I think that's a better option from both sides of the equation."
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Old 19-11-2009, 11:39 AM   #220
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Taser gun used on 10-year-old girl who 'refused to take shower'
A police officer used a Taser stun gun to subdue a 10-year-old girl in her own home.

By Nick Allen in Los Angeles
Published: 12:12AM GMT 19 Nov 2009

A police officer using a Taser gun Photo: PA
The officer had been called to the girl's home in Ozark, Arkansas, by her mother because she was behaving in an unruly manner and refusing to take a shower.

In a report on the incident the officer, Dustin Bradshaw, said the mother gave him permission to use the Taser.

When he arrived, the girl was curled up on the floor, screaming, and resisting as her mother tried to get her in the shower before bed.

"Her mother told me to take her if I needed to," the officer wrote.

The child was "violently kicking and verbally combative" when he tried to take her into custody and she kicked him in the groin.

He then delivered "a very brief drive stun to her back," the report said.

The girl's father, Anthony Medlock, who is divorced from her mother, said the girl showed signs of emotional problems but did not deserve to be "treated like an animal".

He said: "Ten years old and they shot electricity through her body, and I want to know how the heck in God's green earth can they get away with this.

"If you can't pick the kid up and take her to your car, handcuff her, then I don't think you need to be an officer. She doesn't deserve to be treated like a dog. She's not a tiger." Local Mayor Vernon McDaniel said the FBI should investigate.

He said: "People here feel like that he made a mistake in using a Taser, and maybe he did, but we will not know until we get an impartial investigation." The local Police Chief Jim Noggle said no disciplinary action was taken against Bradshaw.

"We didn't use the Taser to punish the child, just to bring the child under control so she wouldn't hurt herself or somebody else," he said.

He said if the officer tried to forcefully put the girl in handcuffs, he could have accidentally broken her arm or leg.

Mr Noggle said the girl will face disorderly conduct charges as a juvenile.



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