Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > Electronic Harassment / Mind Control / Subliminal Programing > The Nature of Matrix Religions and what they mean.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-02-2012, 06:22 PM   #1
merlincove
Premier Subscribers
 
merlincove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28,909
Likes: 425 (247 Posts)
Default Turning water into wine

Turning water into wine:

is this a metaphor, in the same way that alchemy is the spiritual science of turning lead (the base / fundamental earth / physical term) into gold (ether / highest / purest form) within the awakening process and the illuminati ion of spirit?

Was it meant to be a literal act or a lesson / parable describing enlightenment?
__________________
"Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.”
The Buddha
merlincove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 06:59 PM   #2
roman piso
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default


Short Poem by Ovid ( 43 BC – AD 17/18)
http://thanasis.com/store/baucis.htm
(Zeus and Hermes Turn Water into Wine)

...
Once the 'feast' was ready, Philemon pulled up a couple of ancient chairs and invited the guests to fill their bellies. He had a little wine (more like vinegar, it was so lame) saved for a special occasion and promptly brought it out. Philemon watered it down so that it would last a little longer.

The old couple was thrilled to see the late night visitors(Zeus and Hermes) enjoying the food and Philemon kept a vigil on their cups, re-filling them whenever they would empty. After a while, however, they noticed a miraculous thing occurring: no matter how many cups Philemon would pour, the wine pitcher remained filled to the top. Long after the wine should have been consumed, the pitcher still was full.


Jesus Waters the Wine, to make it last longer, Zeus' miracle is better, since he made everlasting wine

Last edited by roman piso; 08-02-2012 at 07:07 PM.
roman piso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:21 PM   #3
jesusistruth
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roman piso View Post
Jesus Waters the Wine, to make it last longer, Zeus' miracle is better, since he made everlasting wine
Then what did they teach, that we should consider it true?
jesusistruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:29 PM   #4
merlincove
Premier Subscribers
 
merlincove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28,909
Likes: 425 (247 Posts)
Default

Hm, two posts in and already derailed.
__________________
"Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.”
The Buddha
merlincove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:33 PM   #5
jesusistruth
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roman piso View Post
You Read same Bible book over and over

This is a Poem, predates Gospels, and has a Moral, wIf you read it, you would know the Moral of the story
http://thanasis.com/store/baucis.htm
The moral of the story is that the teaching of Christ is false, even worse it takes that which is true and makes it false. I could agree to this. If we say that the uncreated, merciful God was adopted and sacrificed to the merciless and created God, then we are sure to go the wrong way.

But at the same time, we can say Jesus laid down his life on his own accord, contrary to the will of the created God, and stole his worship and offering. Thus making the containers of water, containers of wine.

I don't know if we do him justice calling him Christ, though. Might as well, for the sake of the Jews.

Last edited by jesusistruth; 08-02-2012 at 08:39 PM.
jesusistruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:33 PM   #6
merlincove
Premier Subscribers
 
merlincove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 28,909
Likes: 425 (247 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
Hm, two posts in and already derailed.
Please try and stay on topic.
__________________
"Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.”
The Buddha
merlincove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:41 PM   #7
logos880
Senior Member
 
logos880's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 22,376
Likes: 338 (236 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
Turning water into wine:

is this a metaphor, in the same way that alchemy is the spiritual science of turning lead (the base / fundamental earth / physical term) into gold (ether / highest / purest form) within the awakening process and the illuminati ion of spirit?

Was it meant to be a literal act or a lesson / parable describing enlightenment?
Quote:
It is very desirable when there is a marriage, to have Christ own and bless it. Those that would have Christ with them at their marriage, must invite him by prayer, and he will come. While in this world we sometimes find ourselves in straits, even when we think ourselves in fulness. There was want at a marriage feast. Those who are come to care for the things of the world, must look for trouble, and count upon disappointment. In our addresses to Christ, we must humbly spread our case before him, and then refer ourselves to him to do as he pleases. In Christ's reply to his mother there was no disrespect. He used the same word when speaking to her with affection from the cross; yet it is a standing testimony against the idolatry of after-ages, in giving undue honours to his mother. His hour is come when we know not what to do. Delays of mercy are not denials of prayer. Those that expect Christ's favours, must observe his orders with ready obedience. The way of duty is the way to mercy; and Christ's methods must not be objected against. The beginning of Moses' miracles was turning water into blood, Exodus 7:20; the beginning of Christ's miracles was turning water into wine; which may remind us of the difference between the law of Moses and the gospel of Christ. He showed that he improves creature-comforts to all true believers, and make them comforts indeed. And Christ's works are all for use. Has he turned thy water into wine, given thee knowledge and grace? it is to profit withal; therefore draw out now, and use it. It was the best wine. Christ's works commend themselves even to those who know not their Author. What was produced by miracles, always was the best in its kind. Though Christ hereby allows a right use of wine, he does not in the least do away his own caution, which is, that our hearts be not at any time overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness, Luke 21:34. Though we need not scruple to feast with our friends on proper occasions, yet every social interview should be so conducted, that we might invite the Redeemer to join with us, if he were now on earth; and all levity, luxury, and excess offend him.
http://www.christnotes.org/commentar...m=mhc&b=43&c=2

hope this helps.
__________________
for as he thinketh in his heart, so is he
logos880 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:46 PM   #8
jesusistruth
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Note that Christ is the bridegroom. He is not the dinner served at the marriage feast, although some would like us to think so.

Does the marriage happen when we accept him as our husband, the forgiving and merciful God, or when we sacrifice him to the merciless God, even for our mistakes and trespasses?

Quote:
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
It's odd, isn't it, to find such verses in the OT.

Last edited by jesusistruth; 08-02-2012 at 08:53 PM.
jesusistruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:53 PM   #9
roman piso
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

I quoted Ovid, because he was the Originator of the "Water to Wine" parable
that Gospel Author took outright, it is better to go to the Source rather then the copy to understand it better.

Ovid-:
He had a little wine (more like vinegar, it was so lame) saved for a special occasion and promptly brought it out. Philemon watered it down so that it would last a little longer


Wine and Water, Wine symbolizes "Rich", and Water symbolizes "Poor"
the same is with "Iron to Gold" (Poor to Rich), Poor people are more likely to drink Water rather then Wine, or they dilute the Wine with Water, (which I think Jesus did)

I think the metaphor is that, no matter how Poor you are, you have the power to become Great, and Water can become Wine

Ovid' Moral was this
Treat everyone well because you never know when you'll find yourself in the presence of the gods, and infinite riches (Infinite Wine)
can be rewarded

Last edited by roman piso; 08-02-2012 at 08:56 PM.
roman piso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:57 PM   #10
jesusistruth
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roman piso View Post
I quoted Ovid, because he was the Originator of the "Water to Wine" parable
that Gospel Author took outright, it is better to go to the Source rather then the copy to understand it better.
Hehe, right, whenever one uses water and wine in a story, it can only happen through the inspiration of Ovid.
jesusistruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 08:59 PM   #11
jesusistruth
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roman piso View Post
Ovid' Moral was this
Treat everyone well because you never know when you'll find yourself in the presence of the gods, and infinite riches (Infinite Wine)
can be rewarded
That's a pretty poor moral by the way, because when people see you are indeed just a poor man, they will treat you with scorn and kick you out to lie with the dogs.
jesusistruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:08 PM   #12
roman piso
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,835
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusistruth View Post
That's a pretty poor moral by the way, because when people see you are indeed just a poor man, they will treat you with scorn and kick you out to lie with the dogs.
It is the exact same Christian Moral, be good be rich with the gods in heaven.

You will find that the Poor was treated rather well in Ancient Rome, Julius Caesar donated lots of Grain, Bread and Fish to the poor people of Rome, Nero Caesar also gave to the Poor, and rehoused all the people that perished in the fire of Rome, the Roman-Greek authors understood that the Gods are Metaphors, they just used them as Artistic Expressions, entertainment and as Moral guardians

I don't think you understand Metaphors or Morals

Metaphor

A metaphor is a literary figure of speech that uses an image, story or tangible thing to represent a less tangible thing or some intangible quality or idea;

Moral
A moral (from Latin morālis) is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event. The moral may be left to the hearer, reader or viewer to determine for themselves, or may be explicitly encapsulated in a maxim.

Last edited by roman piso; 08-02-2012 at 09:09 PM.
roman piso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:13 PM   #13
jesusistruth
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,022
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roman piso View Post
It is the exact same Christian Moral, be good be rich with the gods in heaven.
Depends on what Christianity you are talking about. Christians are to learn to see that the poor bear the image of God, thus worthy of our respect. Not primarily that we get rich for doing so, but surely it is also a promise.

Quote:
You will find that the Poor was treated rather well in Ancient Rome, Julius Caesar donated lots of Grain, Bread and Fish to the poor people of Rome, Nero Caesar also gave to the Poor, and rehoused all the people that perished in the fire of Rome, the Roman-Greek authors understood that the Gods are Metaphors, they just used them as Artistic Expressions, entertainment and as Moral guardians
Ah, socialism, the surest way to corrupt the morality of a society.

Quote:
I don't think you understand Metaphors or Morals

Metaphor

A metaphor is a literary figure of speech that uses an image, story or tangible thing to represent a less tangible thing or some intangible quality or idea;

Moral
A moral (from Latin morālis) is a message conveyed or a lesson to be learned from a story or event. The moral may be left to the hearer, reader or viewer to determine for themselves, or may be explicitly encapsulated in a maxim.
Well no, I read it as a rule of morality.
jesusistruth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 09:40 PM   #14
hurt4ever1
Inactive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,437
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusistruth View Post
Depends on what Christianity you are talking about. Christians are to learn to see that the poor bear the image of God, thus worthy of our respect. Not primarily that we get rich for doing so, but surely it is also a promise.



Ah, socialism, the surest way to corrupt the morality of a society.



Well no, I read it as a rule of morality.
So tell me, who should rule us? Kings? Lords? Queens? gods?
hurt4ever1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #15
himitsunomiko
Senior Member
 
himitsunomiko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 4,061
Likes: 5 (5 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roman piso View Post
Philemon watered it down so that it would last a little longer.
This is true. The Aristocrats of that time period always watered down their wine, where as the "drunkards", as they were called, drank it straight.
__________________
"Just because someone disagrees with your premise doesn't mean they agree with the antithesis of your premise." -apollo_gnomon-

The real activists standing up for man kind and the planet.
himitsunomiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:11 PM   #16
armoured_amazon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 21,303
Likes: 310 (142 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlincove View Post
Turning water into wine:

is this a metaphor, in the same way that alchemy is the spiritual science of turning lead (the base / fundamental earth / physical term) into gold (ether / highest / purest form) within the awakening process and the illuminati ion of spirit?

Was it meant to be a literal act or a lesson / parable describing enlightenment?
I think the story was a metaphor.
armoured_amazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:15 PM   #17
pinkiepie
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 637
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

I wrote 2 articles on that on my blog. I even posted them here in the health section.
http://www.menrvagames.com/blogs/ros...salt-from-wine
http://www.menrvagames.com/blogs/ros...-stone-of-wine

Yes, i believe it's a real thing. It is possible but probably not the way i did it.
You need to somehow concentrate and create the pure spirit of wine.
And when you put the dust in water it will turn it into wine.
Its kinda how the philosophers stone works.

In fact Jesus may have used such dust, he might have been an alchemist.
Not that i doubt that he cant water into wine with his powers.
Here you go, no more derailing of your thread, disinfo agents gonna be bad (:
i hope you can repay me sometime with a comment ):
pinkiepie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:16 PM   #18
armoured_amazon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 21,303
Likes: 310 (142 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkiepie View Post
I wrote 2 articles on that on my blog. I even posted them here in the health section.
http://www.menrvagames.com/blogs/ros...salt-from-wine
http://www.menrvagames.com/blogs/ros...-stone-of-wine

Yes, i believe it's a real thing. It is possible but probably not the way i did it.
You need to somehow concentrate and create the pure spirit of wine.
And when you put the dust in water it will turn it into wine.
Its kinda how the philosophers stone works.

In fact Jesus may have used such dust, he might have been an alchemist.
Not that i doubt that he cant water into wine with his powers.
Here you go, no more derailing of your thread, disinfo agents gonna be bad (:
i hope you can repay me sometime with a comment ):
I can believe alchemy was at work, but I also think the parables were metaphors, too, in order to be taken at face value by those not ready to hear, and understood by those who were ready to understand.
armoured_amazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:28 PM   #19
pinkiepie
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 637
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

That can't be as i found the recipe on a note with instructions..about wine.
And it was chemistry...
And it's not just one note, there are old books from the medieval times which have recipes concerning wine or mineral chemistry.
And there are far too many chemical words to be considered a metaphor.
"red dragon, white dove" may be a metaphor, Distilling silver with arsenic is not.

Its true Alchemy has a Philosophical Alchemy, Mineral Alchemy and Sexual Alchemy.
But while in Philosophical Alchemy we try to make men turn into gold, in Mineral Alchemy its not a metaphor, its a beautiful truth.
pinkiepie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2012, 10:49 PM   #20
hurt4ever1
Inactive
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,437
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

From what I remember, Dionysus made a whole river turn to wine.


"Dionysus provided mankind with a gift that was as important as Demeter's gift of grain. This was especially true for ancient people for whom alternatives to alcoholic beverages, like most modern recreational drugs and bottled water, were unavailable. Gifts from wine were

Relaxation
Escape
Liquid refreshment that also
Made water potable, and, not least important,
The truth that's found only in vino.

Dionysus' gift of wine had a price. He expected to be worshiped. It was his due. Proud and confident that mortals would realize the value of his gift, he was willing to give humans a second chance, but after repeated rejections, Dionysus took revenge on the mortal members of his family.
Euripides' The Bacchantes tells the most familiar story of the revenge of Dionysus. In it Dionysus is a wild, luxurious god, with flowing locks, who dresses and looks effeminate. The women who worship Dionysus, known as Bacchants or Maenads, leave their homes and husbands to honor the wine god during his festivals. They even abandon their newly born children in order to frolic in the forests. There, if engorged, new mothers suckle wild beasts -- when they aren't hunting and tearing them to shreds. But such revelry is tame compared with the spectacular events involving Pentheus and his mother."...

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/d...a/Dionysus.htm

As for Jesus sayings, I think it was a parable.
hurt4ever1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:35 AM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.