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View Poll Results: Which in your opinion would be beneficial ?
Bitcoin 2 9.09%
Gold/silver 20 90.91%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-05-2013, 01:22 PM   #21
theabbot 7
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Like all things electrical it has an ultimate switch, unless that is we have our own day time solar power and radio comms to keep the dreams alive, as we stand, Iridium control the airways which such digitalisation runs, who is Iridium?.

I will admit it, for my personal energy and wealth I am a true luddite, but for technology I am a supporter if it makes my labour go further for the individual, technology and machinery helps to take the strain away.

In all, the instant payment thing is fine as long as one could assure that the wealth goes directly to those who really deserve it, IE, the ones supplying the labour.
Everyone here knows that this will never happen and electronic labour which is basically what it is, will never be totally fair unless there are seasoned articifers to make the systems electronics run smoothly and fairly in full view.

And remember, where there is great wealth in anonimity, there is nearly always great suffering and huge stagnation of those supplying the labour, skills.

Electro-coining reality is no different than what we have right now, being 95% illusional plastic batton as we stand.

So when your coin no matter what kind has grown in value, that value is false unless your supplied at least 50 % of the labour that went into creating it, I know this, and everyone else should at least strive towards it, and freedom of the body that is connected to the hands driving that energy.
im somewhat the same. but something about the idea of bitcoin sounds effy. for give me if im being old-fashion.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:29 PM   #22
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first, because i dont share your views you choose to hurl insults. SMH,thats not helping either of us.
where did I hurl insults?

Luddism is a neutral term and voluntary choice of some.

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where is the real value of bitcoin?
anything that is useful, limited, and fungible achieves market value. That's economics 101. Heck, people even accept and trade WoW gold.

You could set up a website that does some kind of barter network. You issue "points" in limited amount that people can use as units of accounting. The value of these points (how many points is a piece of cheese) will be determined by supply and demand, which depends on the amount of the points you issue (money supply) and how big and successful the bartering has grown. If you promise to not inflate the amount of your points too much, and if people trust that you won't disappear tomorrow, they will also tend to use them as a value store (savings).

Bitcoin is much like this, except there is no central website or single point of failure required to make it work, it's a peer-to-peer network, just like file-sharing. The bookkeeping is done in a distributed manner by the program every user can download. So it's a thing that runs by itself.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:34 PM   #23
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im just joking when i say you hurling insults bro. folks from uk will use the term luddite but folks simply understand it as being old fashion lol. so let me ask you this: would bitcoining be similar to that of e-betting (like when folks bet on boxing or football) or is it more of a purchase thing?
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:19 PM   #24
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people use bitcoins for both internet and meatspace goods/services, if that is what you mean

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:25 PM   #25
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^so it can be use as actual currency w/o the internet?
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:46 PM   #26
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yup, mostly.

Bitcoins are essentially private keys or secret codes that you're responsible yourself to take care of. You can also store them offline, on USB sticks, or even printed on paper. Some guys even craft physical bitcoins and sell them, but they're essentially just a gimmick, as you'd have to trust them that they didn't keep a copy of the private key. So for proper and secure transactions in meatspace you need the internet, there you'd rather use mobile devices (Android mainly, Apple doesn't like Bitcoin and keeps banning it from their appstore).
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:48 PM   #27
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could you expound on this meatspace?
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:39 PM   #28
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could you expound on this meatspace?
hmmm i guess pictures say more than words, especially if they're moving.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:46 PM   #29
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thanks even though im still skeptical im going to research this more

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Old 02-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #30
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im somewhat the same. but something about the idea of bitcoin sounds effy. for give me if im being old-fashion.
The only time anything real is made is when the hours of labour that brought the things into being, IE the physical goods themselves are created, then and only then used as collateral/savings, it is not just, to magic up any form of token without the sellers having the items physically in stock. This way it completely removes those making up an invisible currency, in other words those creating the physical goods are the money/goods creators, who should never part with their labour to the illusionary.

I would never part with my wares to anything other that I can feel or touch in reality, the buck stops right there, and you had better have something that I need in order of myself giving those something that they need, if I need help I can trade my knowledge for your labour as part payment, see the picture yet?.

The way out of this, but people simply continue to ignore it is, training up those whithout skills to make things for themselves, then the things of life will come to them/you, not a middle man, who wants to hoard your energy for himself.

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Old 04-05-2013, 04:29 PM   #31
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Silver.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:48 PM   #32
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Silver.
Silver in flat stock that you can make things out of is what I would trade for, to make more things.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:32 AM   #33
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one step after the other, the first step would be debt-free money.

if you want to see a world without money, it has to become (largely) redundant because people are able to create abundance among themselves from the bottom-up;

if you want to forbid money top-down, you'd need a dictatorship. And even then, if there is still scarcity, people will form black markets and use barter items as money (mostly cigs) to get the stuff they want.
time is the thing. i dont mind money if its simply a medium of exchange. the redundancy point is good but most people are not close to being ready for that. if your going to force people to go with what is really good for them...forget it. it wont work. the sad truth is people want to improive their position...in comparison to others. the jones thing you know. its a sickness. its also their downfall.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:31 AM   #34
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Just being able to circulate currency outside the banking system is a good thing. I am struggling to find Australian businesses that accept bitcoin.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:48 AM   #35
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hmmm i guess pictures say more than words, especially if they're moving.

Bitcoin: world's fastest growing currency migrates off the internet - YouTube
Bitcoin: just another currency.

i'm not losing any sleep over the mastery of alchemy just yet.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:52 AM   #36
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It seems to me that sadly, the greedy and devious ones have made a wonderful system more complex and difficult than it needs to be.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:25 AM   #37
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gold and silver for sure. you can bury it in your garden then let the government wankers try and confiscate it then.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:09 PM   #38
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the sad truth is people want to improive their position...in comparison to others. the jones thing you know. its a sickness. its also their downfall.
yes, sadly some (most) are like that. I guess that's rooted in nature. The prancing peacock essentially. It's quite a philosophical discourse if we as a human race can or should overcome this. I wouldn't want to send people to reeducation camps and live in an Equilibrium-type dystopia either, mind you. Again, the consciousness would have to grow from the bottom up.

There are also many who do contribute work for the "commons" and have the greater good in mind. The whole free and open software scene is a good example. The most important thing is that there can exist good living standards for everyone to provide for basic needs (by Basic income or Social Dividend or other means), so everyone can live without existential fears, which would easily be possible today with all the technology we have, but doesn't happen of course for obvious reasons. Then it almost wouldn't matter anymore if on top of that there are some people who just satisfy their materialism and get status symbols, i.e. needing money, alongside others who live by different values (arts, self-education, whatever), i.e. doing largely without money.

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It seems to me that sadly, the greedy and devious ones have made a wonderful system more complex and difficult than it needs to be.
When it comes to money, it's never pink unicorns in the sky barfing rainbows.

Whenever something is valuable, the human factor comes into play.

Same greed with gold or silver or any limited and useful commodity really. Bitcoin mimics those properties merely due to technical reasons, because it was the simplest thing to do, as there can't be any bureaucracy or monetary policies.

The code is open source however, so anyone can modify it and set up their own system. For example, the Freicoin fork adds a demurrage fee to discourage hoarding ("greed"). But first it has to gain acceptance in the marketplace all by itself (why should I use money that's losing value), second the law of unintended consequences applies imho: Demurrage is arguably better than inflation, but it's money losing value all the same, and on the large scale we see the negative effects already today: people fleeing into other assets, creating stock market bubbles, rigged insider deals, landgrabbing etc...

Things are never just so easy I guess.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:55 PM   #39
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If one asks anyone this simple question.

What is debt free money actually based upon, and nine out of ten people cannot answer it, who here knows what true debt based exchange is and if it already exists outside of the modern monetary system, and who has it, a form of currency as old as the earth herself.

I doubt anyone really understands how to break free.

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Old 01-06-2013, 03:57 PM   #40
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this is what some people cant seem to grasp
The poll might have said, how much does one do for themselves from the bottom up and why, or why not.

To grasp reality is to create it yourself, not ask another to do it for any less or any other for any forms of token that eventually takes away anothers energy in order of growing in value.

Stability thrives in all energy being shared equally for what we all need, soon as the whole realises this simplest of facts, will the true calendar of man begin to work for itself.

If we are lucky and waken to this new religion, we will be in harmony with the universe and the rest of creation.
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