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Old 07-04-2012, 09:24 PM   #1
free_spirit86
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Default Refuse to pay TV Licence advice needed

Hey, im wanting to quit paying for licence as ive seen on their website you only have to pay if you watch 'live broadcast' which i hardly ever do...and will NEVER do when my licence runs out and i quit paying.

I spend alot of time on net....so tv is only used for video games occasionally, catch up on bbc iplayer etc but not LIVE FEED. - so this should be fine right?

Now, has anyone had the experience of NOT paying a tv licence peacefully with the licencing people...or do they give you grief after grief. I heard that if you have a tv but dont use it, you still need a licence!? but their website says you only need it when your receiving a live feed.

Just wondered on your thoughts and how to go about it?

P.s i signed the pertition too against the bbc licence. I was shocked to see recent signatures there :-)
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #2
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as long as it is not tuned in to receive any channels you should be fine
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:45 PM   #3
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'Tuned in' does that basically mean the airreal needs to be thrown out? lol (which would happen anyway) or am i missing something like... i need to manually de-activate it?

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Old 07-04-2012, 10:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by free_spirit86 View Post
Hey, im wanting to quit paying for licence as ive seen on their website you only have to pay if you watch 'live broadcast' which i hardly ever do...and will NEVER do when my licence runs out and i quit paying.

I spend alot of time on net....so tv is only used for video games occasionally, catch up on bbc iplayer etc but not LIVE FEED. - so this should be fine right?

Now, has anyone had the experience of NOT paying a tv licence peacefully with the licencing people...or do they give you grief after grief. I heard that if you have a tv but dont use it, you still need a licence!? but their website says you only need it when your receiving a live feed.

Just wondered on your thoughts and how to go about it?

P.s i signed the pertition too against the bbc licence. I was shocked to see recent signatures there :-)
Hey

I dont pay the TVL (TV License) im not an expert on it but i know a few things so hopefully i can help.

As the post above says and as you commented about their site, you only need to pay the TVL if you watch live tv programmes as they are aired.

First thing you should know is they have no power over you what so ever. You dont need to let them into your house ever no matter what they might try to tell you on the phone or by letter. The only way they could come into your home is if they have a warrant. To get a Warrant they would need proof that you are watching without a license, so if you arent watching live tv then you really have nothing to worry about so dont let their threatening letters worry you please Its very hard for them to get proof anyway as the scary detector van they tried to scare people with has been proved to be fake. They would need to either hear the tv on, see it through a window, or (someone mentioned on another thread) they can try to match the flashing light from a tv (from a window for example) to what is actually being broadcast at the time.

Ok sooo after that waffle, they will keep hassling you unless you put your foot down. (Its a wonder they can get away with it, but they seem to think they have more power than they actually do, and people seem to think they have more power than they actually do too). If you phone them up and tell them you dont need a tvl any more they will try to tell you that you must let one of their agents in to prove that you dont use a tv, this is BS. They have no legal right to enter your property. They may try to tell you that if you dont they'll get a warrant, but they wouldnt be granted a warrant without proof. You could let them in but to be honest i dont know what you would need to prove that you dont use it. Having your aerial unplugged from the tv might not be enough (some people recommend also as well as the above having your channels untuned.)

I chose to not let them in as by law they have the same rights as a carpet door to door sales man, and you dont let him in to prove you have carpet.

Now something that has worked for everyone who tried it (and me) is to take away their 'implied right of access' This means you refuse them the right to come down your path to your door, also it stops them from sending you letters (though they will still send you one letter maybe every year or two). This is your legal right and if they dont abide by it you can take them to court.

Template Letter...

Quote:
Dear Sir,

I have no need of a TV licence & am not breaking the law & yet I have received threatening correspondences from Capita Ltd.

Your visiting officers will not call at my address. This letter denotes prior written & legal warning that any such visit will constitute trespass & harassment. Normally there is an assumed right of entry to the front door of a property. However, this is denied to your employees or subcontractors, since any such act will evidently constitute harassment since warning has been given.

Your company will not send me any threatening correspondences & you will not visit my home. You may, of course, reply to this letter. You will kindly acknowledge in your reply that you have noted & understood the contents of this letter.

I suggest that you use one of your detector vans which you claim can easily detect TV use. This will furnish you with the proof of my innocence that you seem to desire without your company resorting to the illegal & immoral principle of continual harassment to myself.

You have now been informed that any such visit or usual threatening correspondences constitute harassment. You will immediately cease.

Can I take this opportunity to thank you in anticipation of your co-operation in this matter.

I have a perfectly moral & legal right to live without such harassment as a perusal of European law will show you.

Yours faithfully


The Legal Occupant
Quoted from this thread http://forum.davidicke.com/showthrea...=204417&page=3
Above is a template letter that you can send to them. Just putting 'BBC template letter' into google will help you to find a lot of template letters like this. You dont have to use this one as there is many out there. You might also want to look at the thread i posted and maybe also search the DI forum as there are many topics about this

Also the TPUC site http://tpuc.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=39 will be able to answer any questions you have and will be a lot more informative (and probably more brief) than i have been lol They have a whole section about the nasty people from the TVL and are very helpful
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:30 PM   #5
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I haven't paid my tv licence ever and i'm now 42, i get the knock on the door about once a year and every year i say the same thing- after they introduce themselves, i ask "am i obliged to answer any of your questions in law" and then say thankyou and goodbye. They can't take you to court without your name and signature so keep it short and sweet, be polite and close the door.
Good luck
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by loveisthekey View Post
I haven't paid my tv licence ever and i'm now 42, i get the knock on the door about once a year and every year i say the same thing- after they introduce themselves, i ask "am i obliged to answer any of your questions in law" and then say thankyou and goodbye. They can't take you to court without your name and signature so keep it short and sweet, be polite and close the door.
Good luck
That is true, but free_spirit86 has been paying it so they already have his/her name. Also you will still receive regular letters from them. Taking away their implied right of access means you dont have to put up with their threats and harrassment
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:03 PM   #7
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Your right! an implied right of access thing is a good way but i'm just lazy so do as little as possible. As for the letters, they've only got the name of the last person to have a licence, you could've moved on. I got letters addressed to me for the first couple of years but after each was sent back (return to sender), they soon stopped.
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by loveisthekey View Post
Your right! an implied right of access thing is a good way but i'm just lazy so do as little as possible. As for the letters, they've only got the name of the last person to have a licence, you could've moved on. I got letters addressed to me for the first couple of years but after each was sent back (return to sender), they soon stopped.
hehe i dont blame you for doing as little as possible lol.

I dont know how they got my name, but the letters to my house went from having my name, then to 'The Occupier' then back to my name
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:26 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by free_spirit86 View Post
Hey, im wanting to quit paying for licence as ive seen on their website you only have to pay if you watch 'live broadcast' which i hardly ever do...and will NEVER do when my licence runs out and i quit paying.

I spend alot of time on net....so tv is only used for video games occasionally, catch up on bbc iplayer etc but not LIVE FEED. - so this should be fine right?

Now, has anyone had the experience of NOT paying a tv licence peacefully with the licencing people...or do they give you grief after grief. I heard that if you have a tv but dont use it, you still need a licence!? but their website says you only need it when your receiving a live feed.

Just wondered on your thoughts and how to go about it?

P.s i signed the pertition too against the bbc licence. I was shocked to see recent signatures there :-)
If you have a TV set and you tell the licence officer you have one - they won't give a damn what you tell them, they'll want you to pay for a licence and if you don't they'll fine you!

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:38 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by loveisthekey View Post
I haven't paid my tv licence ever and i'm now 42, i get the knock on the door about once a year and every year i say the same thing- after they introduce themselves, i ask "am i obliged to answer any of your questions in law" and then say thankyou and goodbye. They can't take you to court without your name and signature so keep it short and sweet, be polite and close the door.
Good luck
About 5 years ago I was watching TV and there was a knock on the door. I opened it and it was a TV licence officer. He asked if I had a TV? I said "No I don't and you can't come in because it's an infringement of my human rights!" The guy ticked a box on his form and walked away and I never heard anything from them for about 3 years until I got a routine letter asking if I had a TV licence!
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:33 AM   #11
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Wow really good info here, thanks guys!

Only thing is, i am totally baffled now you say the 'vans dont work anyway' because...when i used to live in a 75 bed hostel, my best friend at the time wasn't paying her tv licence. (which we all thought TVL should have been included in the disgusting amount of rent we payed a week but there)
Somehow, the TVL agency managed to sent her a letter WITH HER NAME and ROOM NUMBER! - this is why im sceptical on "they cant prove anything". She even had to take 'a bag' with her to court over it all.
The only other thing is unless, they used satalites to zoom in on her window as it was kinda a high rise flat room thingi.
I mean, the hostel was corrupt as hell! Went under an english church housing group and they 'pretended' to help people but really, they didnt because its MASS PROFIT keeping people there. Luckily i was just homeless, and not had 'problem' to go with it so i had my eyes peeled lol. This hostel had many 'contacts', so maybe they organised it hand in hand with TVL agency? The manager had mass illegal guns and drugs in his home, and his gf was a high ranking copper....says it all. They did drug raids on hostel every 3 months simultaniously, to make it look like 'they were doing something'. They knew deals on average of 30k were going down every day! They were all in on it one way or another.

Very interesting anyway, especially that letter!!! Do you think they'd listen to the letter though, as i dont have money to take anyone to court, although CAB would battle for you wouldn't they? (even though they are off-cuts of the same system lol)

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Old 08-04-2012, 11:51 AM   #12
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Template Letter...Dear Sir,

I have no need of a TV licence & am not breaking the law & yet I have received threatening correspondences from Capita Ltd.

Your visiting officers will not call at my address. This letter denotes prior written & legal warning that any such visit will constitute trespass & harassment. Normally there is an assumed right of entry to the front door of a property. However, this is denied to your employees or subcontractors, since any such act will evidently constitute harassment since warning has been given.

Your company will not send me any threatening correspondences & you will not visit my home. You may, of course, reply to this letter. You will kindly acknowledge in your reply that you have noted & understood the contents of this letter.

I suggest that you use one of your detector vans which you claim can easily detect TV use. This will furnish you with the proof of my innocence that you seem to desire without your company resorting to the illegal & immoral principle of continual harassment to myself.

You have now been informed that any such visit or usual threatening correspondences constitute harassment. You will immediately cease.

Can I take this opportunity to thank you in anticipation of your co-operation in this matter.

I have a perfectly moral & legal right to live without such harassment as a perusal of European law will show you.

Yours faithfully


The Legal Occupant
Good stuff...Letter on it's way..wonder if I can get away with insufficient stamp price

Customer Relations
TV Licensing
Bristol
BS98 1TL
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''Media control is still based in the main on cultural manipulation. It's just so easy to do. When you set up one set of objectives toward the public and you've given them a certain definition for each code word, you hit them with the various code words and they're not going to believe anything if you don't want them to." Bowie

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Old 09-04-2012, 01:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by free_spirit86 View Post
Wow really good info here, thanks guys!

Only thing is, i am totally baffled now you say the 'vans dont work anyway' because...when i used to live in a 75 bed hostel, my best friend at the time wasn't paying her tv licence. (which we all thought TVL should have been included in the disgusting amount of rent we payed a week but there)
Somehow, the TVL agency managed to sent her a letter WITH HER NAME and ROOM NUMBER! - this is why im sceptical on "they cant prove anything".
There are many ways they could get her name/flat number, looking at her mail or/and asking a neighbour for example. Maybe even through the voting register.

People who have worked for TVL have actually come out and said that the vans are empty. Also no one has ever been prosecuted with evidence from a TVL van.

They still have to follow the law. To take someone to court they need good reason. Most of the people who do get taken to court are because they have admitted to watching without a TVL or they have been caught (TVL agents see a tv on or hear it etc).

Quote:
Very interesting anyway, especially that letter!!! Do you think they'd listen to the letter though, as i dont have money to take anyone to court, although CAB would battle for you wouldn't they? (even though they are off-cuts of the same system lol)
As i said it is a legal right of ours to deny them access. They CANNOT say no, or refuse it. It doesnt mean you have to take them to court, but you would be with in the law to do so, and you would win (if they broke the law by going against the 'denied right of access' law.) They dont know they you cant afford to take them to court and i dont think they would take the chance. They would lose the court battle and you wouldnt have to pay a penny. This isnt about taking them to court though, its simply about denying them access to harrass you.

It worked for me, and quite a few other people on the forum. Infact i havent heard it not working for anyone.

CAB would back you up, but again its not really about having to go to court, it wont come to that because the last thing that company needs is a high profile court case showing the public that they broke the law, and also making it common knowledge to even more people that they can legally stop the TVL people from harrassing them.

i hope this helps and please dont be afraid of them, they depend on people being fearful of them and thinking they have more power than they actually do. Some clued up people actually will open the door and laugh in their faces, or record them asking why they are harrassing them etc lol.

Have a look at youtube for people who have recorded them, some of the vids are quite funny
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:58 AM   #14
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Good stuff...Letter on it's way..wonder if I can get away with insufficient stamp price

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hehe

I wouldnt chance it myself cause it might not get delivered or they could actually charge you for the postage lol
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:10 AM   #15
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i've not paid TVL for years, can't remember the last time - i haven't watched tv for ten years or more. i see it occasionally when i go to friends houses etc - don't really miss it tbf.

it was big bother that really turned me off watching the TV. One night i came home from work, and switched it on. Big brother was on and everyone in the house was arguing about something or other, screaming at each other. Some eejit was trying to be 'gangsta' and making a piss poor job of it, and i just sat there and thought 'wtf am i doing giving this shit my energy?' i cut the aerial connection and haven't looked back since. Thanks Victor

i get letters addressed to 'the occupier' from tv licensing, once a month or so, but as no one by that name lives here, i just send em back or bin em. i usually bin em

You don't have to pay the license fee, especially if you aren't using the service they offer.

My tv isn't plugged to any external receiving device, freeview or aerial. i just use it to watch DVD's and play games on.

If you have a tv that is connected to a receiver, then i think the tv licensing people can prosecute if:

A) they actually see you watching it, or

B) you sign a statement / declaration saying that you were watching it without a license.

You don't have to let them into your home if they call. They sometimes knock on doors where a license isn't listed on their system, but you are under no obligation to even talk with them if you don't wish.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #16
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i've not paid TVL for years, can't remember the last time - i haven't watched tv for ten years or more. i see it occasionally when i go to friends houses etc - don't really miss it tbf.

it was big bother that really turned me off watching the TV. One night i came home from work, and switched it on. Big brother was on and everyone in the house was arguing about something or other, screaming at each other. Some eejit was trying to be 'gangsta' and making a piss poor job of it, and i just sat there and thought 'wtf am i doing giving this shit my energy?' i cut the aerial connection and haven't looked back since. Thanks Victor

i get letters addressed to 'the occupier' from tv licensing, once a month or so, but as no one by that name lives here, i just send em back or bin em. i usually bin em

You don't have to pay the license fee, especially if you aren't using the service they offer.

My tv isn't plugged to any external receiving device, freeview or aerial. i just use it to watch DVD's and play games on.

If you have a tv that is connected to a receiver, then i think the tv licensing people can prosecute if:

A) they actually see you watching it, or

B) you sign a statement / declaration saying that you were watching it without a license.

You don't have to let them into your home if they call. They sometimes knock on doors where a license isn't listed on their system, but you are under no obligation to even talk with them if you don't wish.
But surely, they can lie....and their word will be against yours. They can say they "Saw you watching it" (when you actually hadn't) and then you've had your chips, because where im coming from... wouldnt their 'suit' be enough against you!? Like it is with every effing thing atm lol

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Old 10-04-2012, 09:42 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by free_spirit86 View Post
Hey, im wanting to quit paying for licence as ive seen on their website you only have to pay if you watch 'live broadcast' which i hardly ever do...and will NEVER do when my licence runs out and i quit paying.

I spend alot of time on net....so tv is only used for video games occasionally, catch up on bbc iplayer etc but not LIVE FEED. - so this should be fine right?

Now, has anyone had the experience of NOT paying a tv licence peacefully with the licencing people...or do they give you grief after grief. I heard that if you have a tv but dont use it, you still need a licence!? but their website says you only need it when your receiving a live feed.

Just wondered on your thoughts and how to go about it?

P.s i signed the pertition too against the bbc licence. I was shocked to see recent signatures there :-)
I gave up paying my TV license and just watch non-live TV online.

I told an inspector that I had a TV that wasn't in use and he was fine with it or at least he knew he couldn't do anything about it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:43 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by free_spirit86 View Post
But surely, they can lie....and their word will be against yours. They can say they "Saw you watching it" (when you actually hadn't) and then you've had your chips, because where im coming from... wouldnt their 'suit' be enough against you!? Like it is with every effing thing atm lol
I'll have to be honest with you here and say that I know one guy who did have a TV Licensing employee lie about him, pushing some note through the door saying that a TV had been on in his flat when nobody was even in!

However, he never heard anything further about it and that was four years ago.

Two cardinal rules here:

1) Don't sign anything.
2) Don't say anything (apart from things like "You're trespassing on private land, leave now!"). You are under no obligation whatsoever to do anything they tell you and certainly don't let them in!
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by free_spirit86 View Post
But surely, they can lie....and their word will be against yours. They can say they "Saw you watching it" (when you actually hadn't) and then you've had your chips, because where im coming from... wouldnt their 'suit' be enough against you!? Like it is with every effing thing atm lol
Yes, they could lie. But what if you were somewhere else at the time and could prove it? That would prove they lied and they would be sacked.

I never answer the door to anyone unless I am expecting someone and know it is them at the door. That's how I avoided ever having any contact with the census people. No one can ever tell if I am home or if the place is occupied when they knock at the door.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:46 PM   #20
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But surely, they can lie....and their word will be against yours. They can say they "Saw you watching it" (when you actually hadn't) and then you've had your chips, because where im coming from... wouldnt their 'suit' be enough against you!? Like it is with every effing thing atm lol
i think they need more than verbal evidence, not sure though - it wouldn't stand up in court. All you would need to do is say to them 'proove your statement,' and they would need to bring either photographic or video evidence / or detective van special ops stuff
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