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Old 22-06-2017, 01:55 AM   #261
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They called out 'this is for allah' so no not the same. That is a terrorist attack as Isis claimed responsibility for it.
Who is claiming responsibility for this guy? No one.
Who did they link him to? No one.
i don't think one needs to belong to a terrorist organisation to carry out an act of terror.

Attacking a person, or a group of people with malicious intent to harm or cause terror is an act of terrorism - these attacks are religious, politically or racially motivated irrespective of whether the perpetrator belongs to a known body or not.

There are too many appologists saying that the Manchester attack or the London attacks by jihadi's were 'horrific events' or 'appauling acts,' they shy away from applying the T word, because they might offend someone - but they're are all to eager to label the Finsbury attack as terrorism.

These same appologists / lefties are keen to point out that the jihadi's acted as disenfranchised lone wolves, refusing to accept that they are the tip of an iceberg of extremism - and yet in the same breath will insist that Darren Osborne is a symbol of a deep undercurrent of anti-islamic feeling that is quietly taking hold and brewing within our society.

What we're failing to recognise is that all these people, Darren Osborne as well as the jihadi extremists, are all very ill people who have been manipulated into a way of thinking and acting - and their actions are those of psychologically damaged individuals trying to take some control back.

These people may attach to ISIS or some other suplimentary ideological group - either ISIS or BNP, EDL, Britain First - and what we then fail to see is that these groups are meer focual points that embody the frustrations and lack of power some individuals feel, the groups themselves embody a resolution and an empowerment that these individuals need - and ultimately the minds of the disenfranchised, frustrated and psychologically damaged persona are rich fertile grounds these organisations cherish.

That Darren Osborne doesn't link to a known or unknown group isn't really that important, the fact that he drove a van into a group of people and then got out of it screaming that he wanted 'to kill Muslims' (allegedly) shows that he has psychological or emotional / mental isuues - and no sane person is going to attack others with knives / vans / cars / bombs....

These people aren't working with a full deck, whether they belong to a group or not, they have issues.

No-one in their right mind is going to join a group of people whose purpose it is to create terror and kill innocents, you really aren't in possesion of a full deck if you think that is going to solve anything.

But also, some people are just frikking nutters - and whereas many nutters will gravitate to a group or body that helps them turn their madness into some sort of sick purpose, there are many who won't, many who will just sit and seathe and let their madness develop on its own till it boils over.

Finsbury Park mosque was home to Abu Hamza, who was an imam there, preaching Islamic fundamentalism and militant Islamism.

Anjem Chaudary is also linked to Finsbury Park mosque

[quote]Al –Muhajiroun

Despite its increasingly outspoken stance, Al-Muhajiroun was largely ignored until after the September 11 attacks on the United States.

While the world condemned the atrocity, Bakri Mohammed helped organise a seminar at the Finsbury Park Mosque entitled: September 11 2001: A Towering Day in History.

Choudary was among those who attended and the hijackers were praised as the “Magnificent 19”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...o-a-string-of/

At the end of the day you have to ask who allowed such extremist views to be perpetrated at Finsbury Park mosque, who stood by while the likes of Choudary and Hamza preached their hate of British culture and British way of life - for it to then later be the focus of an attack in light of the actions of other extremists who were fuelled by the kind of radicalisation being fostered by Hamza and co?

I'm sure that there are thousands of people in the UK who feel agrieved that hate speech such as was promoted at Fisnbury Park mosque under Hamza and Choudary - as well as others - and who don't belong to a political, religious or racially motivated group, but still feel disempowered and on the back foot. And of those thousands of people, i'm sure that a number of them will have a psychological, mental or emotional issue that drives them to do things that a normal rational person would not do.

Lefties would have us believe that Darren Osborne is the manifestation of a deep resentment of anti-islamic feeling, and that the Manchester bomber and London attackers were extremists from relatively isolated pockets, that 'not all muslims are terrorists' but Osborne is the representation of far-right thinking that is gaining ground in British society.

We need some kind of middle ground, some kind of generic pigeon hole to put these people who wish to convey terror but do not represent anything more than a warped, retarded mind-set - whether motivated by political, religious or racial issues - no matter their colour or faith or affiliations.

They're all the same.

And i think politicians should be put into this same group also, just because they wear a suit and are educated doesn't mean that their acts of terror are any different.

We get hung up on names and badges and masks, on whether people fit into this easilly recognised box of what we percive terrorism is - or even what we want to admit terrorism is - because then we can better judge a person.

The name, the badge is really for us, because it helps us understand, helps us catalogue things more neatly.

And, as we catalogue them as 'terrorists' we disasociate what they do with mental illness - whereas if we see it as a mental illness (and it can't really be aything but and extreme mental illness) - we see that a person doesn't have to belong to a group to have done the things that they have done.

But really, we would do better to not recognise these people and what they do as having any worth outside of being mentally unstable / ill. The media glorifies terrorists, once they have done the dreadful things that they do, the media empowers them - when really it should be disempowering them.
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Old 22-06-2017, 02:13 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by kostya View Post
Just mass murder.
But she hated muslims, therefore its politically motivated, ergo terrorism
How can it not be?
Timothy McVeigh

Quote:
The Oklahoma City bombing was a domestic terrorist truck bombing on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, United States on April 19, 1995. Perpetrated by Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, the bombing killed 168 people,[1] injured more than 680 others, and destroyed one-third of the building.[2] The blast destroyed or damaged 324 other buildings within a 16-block radius, shattered glass in 258 nearby buildings, and destroyed or burned 86 cars,[3][4] causing an estimated $652 million worth of damage.[
So you think this was merely mass murder?
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Old 22-06-2017, 02:41 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by the nine View Post
But she hated muslims, therefore its politically motivated, ergo terrorism
How can it not be?
Timothy McVeigh


So you think this was merely mass murder?
Do you honestly think a man in a van could not do far more damage than to run into a crowd, kill none, but a guy that was already in trouble dies at the end of it?

What planet are you on? It makes zero sense, if he wanted to kill people he would have.
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Old 22-06-2017, 02:57 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by kostya View Post
Do you honestly think a man in a van could not do far more damage than to run into a crowd, kill none, but a guy that was already in trouble dies at the end of it?

What planet are you on? It makes zero sense, if he wanted to kill people he would have.
How many people have you run over?
I fortunately have no experience in this nor wish too.

Second guessing the mind of a suicidal man is not something I think I can do.

There could be many scenario but knowing the actual one is not easy to achieve
Maybe you have the mind of a killer and he did not?
Who really knows

As terrorism goes, this domestic terror
Y'know like trying to terrorise a whole group of people across the nation...

Planet earth or aka ERIT in ancient Sumer
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Old 22-06-2017, 07:31 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by the nine View Post
How many people have you run over?
I fortunately have no experience in this nor wish too.

Second guessing the mind of a suicidal man is not something I think I can do.

There could be many scenario but knowing the actual one is not easy to achieve
Maybe you have the mind of a killer and he did not?
Who really knows

As terrorism goes, this domestic terror
Y'know like trying to terrorise a whole group of people across the nation...

Planet earth or aka ERIT in ancient Sumer
You're the one making assumptions. We don't know what actually happened, just media accounts of what happened, and excuse me if I don't view the BBC as being impartial and honest. Within minutes of the incident we were told, as an absolute fact, that this was an act of terrorism by a right wing white nationalist. We were told, as an absolute fact, that at least one person had been killed as a direct result of the attack. This narrative is now falling apart, but the damage is done. The aim, as I see it, is to further clamp down on free speech and to nip in the bud any spontaneous organisation by indigenous Brits to defend themselves against increasing attacks from hostile ethnic groups that our government has allowed to live along side us. That's the priority. It's clear the government doesn't give a fuck about Islamic terrorism, if they did they'd be rounding up the foreigners involved and kicking them out the country as an urgent matter of national security. It seems TBTB welcome and even encourage Islamic extremism. They're happy to allow our children to be raped and murdered as long as it furthers their agenda.
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Old 22-06-2017, 11:07 AM   #266
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I get what you are all saying.
I understand both sides on this.

Because there are organisations that plan events then there are lone wolves.
What they have in common is that the victims (or intended victims) are usually a crowd of non military - ordinary civilians
therefore instilling 'terror' in us.

You could argue that some Muslims are suicidal and unhappy with their faith and as suicide is not accepted in their religion choosing to take others out while dying for a 'cause' is acceptable and they think they go to heaven and become a martyr so that encourages them to do that (that's if God can't tell they were suicidal )..they may not even care for the 'cause' though but they are still labelled a terrorist - lone wolf or not.

Or that someone who is an alcoholic, a racist, had a bad divorce and life is going down the drain watches the news and finds something to blame for his misery ... the van driver was asking the crowd to kill him... so he was also suicidal...maybe he also wanted to be a martyr and remembered for this atrocious act...he is also a terrorist.

But why are the Government so quick to label something an act of 'terror'?

Is it because once you are labelled a terrorist or what you did was an 'act of terror'
you no longer have any rights? They can do what they want with you basically.

Were the motives purely political? Religious? Or are they mentally ill? And does that matter? No. If they attack a crowd of civilians they will be labelled a terrorist.
I get that now.
I thought it meant they were acting for a larger international group they were involved with.

It isn't about the number of casualties - they get arrested often before things happen.
They might be caught with a knife outside parliament for example.
If they are a lone wolf - they will still be called a terrorist.

and of course the word 'terror' will keep the focus on the event (big or small) and not the politicians...

So it's an unclear line - but the message is clear - you can be branded a terrorist and have your rights taken from you for small or big crimes - lone wolf or not.

Will this evolve to hate crimes, racist remarks? who knows.

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Old 22-06-2017, 02:30 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by borsabil View Post
You're the one making assumptions. We don't know what actually happened, just media accounts of what happened, and excuse me if I don't view the BBC as being impartial and honest. Within minutes of the incident we were told, as an absolute fact, that this was an act of terrorism by a right wing white nationalist. We were told, as an absolute fact, that at least one person had been killed as a direct result of the attack. This narrative is now falling apart, but the damage is done. The aim, as I see it, is to further clamp down on free speech and to nip in the bud any spontaneous organisation by indigenous Brits to defend themselves against increasing attacks from hostile ethnic groups that our government has allowed to live along side us. That's the priority. It's clear the government doesn't give a fuck about Islamic terrorism, if they did they'd be rounding up the foreigners involved and kicking them out the country as an urgent matter of national security. It seems TBTB welcome and even encourage Islamic extremism. They're happy to allow our children to be raped and murdered as long as it furthers their agenda.
I was responding to the posters allegations that he could have been a lot more deadly if he wished..
I never tried to verify the BBC's mesage

Have you not heard?
Apparently the more Islamic terrorists we have in the country, the safer we are as long as they promise to live peacefully amongst us and will try to dissuade other disenfranchised muslims from joining terrorist organisations..
So if those reported 33,000 terrorists living here from war zones is accurate..by their reasoning we must live in a very safe country
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Old 22-06-2017, 02:34 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Daisy101 View Post



But why are the Government so quick to label something an act of 'terror'?
Because the definition of terror is..

Quote:
terrorism
n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
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Example:Tesla aimed to give mankind a leap of technology so that we can prosper as a species
What actually happened was he gave the wealthy elite the tools with which to enslave us..
Both psychopaths and sociopaths are devoid of empathy or morals, these are the true enemy of mankind - Elite
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Old 22-06-2017, 05:40 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by the nine View Post
Because the definition of terror is..
Quote:
terrorism
n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Then the entire history of Humanity is one gigantic tome of Terrorism interspersed with footnotes of enlightenment.

*edit* under their very own definition if we had the legal funds we could identify that the very system of governance itself is a Terrorist apparatus and finally prosecute them using their own laws.

the only set back being it would require a cohesive society to do so and then we are in the realms of the Judean Peoples Front again
[brain fart]
Good luck finding a lawyer to do that , perhaps this should be our mission , to crowd fund and send some of our Children to law school with the express intent of creating humanitarian lawyers who will in a couple of generations get to use the law as it was intended to be and protect civilians the world over from oppressive regimes and unlawful acts [/brain fart]
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Old 22-06-2017, 08:26 PM   #270
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I think blowing Muslims up with unmanned drones is more terrifying and cowardly, than someone screaming “Allahu akbar” at soldiers before being killed in a hail of gunfire, like Oussama Zariouh in Brussels.
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Old 22-06-2017, 09:26 PM   #271
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I think blowing Muslims up with unmanned drones is more terrifying and cowardly, than someone screaming “Allahu akbar” at soldiers before being killed in a hail of gunfire, like Oussama Zariouh in Brussels.
Did they blow up civilians? Or were they about to?
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Old 23-06-2017, 12:00 AM   #272
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Did they blow up civilians? Or were they about to?
He blew up his luggage, allegedly.
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Old 23-06-2017, 12:32 AM   #273
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The ideas of the terrorists will never be stamped out, not in our lifetimes anyway. The Russians and Chinese did their best to stamp out religion and just drove it underground where people's beliefs were only strengthened.
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Old 23-06-2017, 09:35 AM   #274
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Finsbury Park Mosque / Muslim Welfare Centre "White Van Man" event : Glasgow Bin Lorry Incident


See DIF thread : Very serious' bin lorry crash in Glasgow


See also DIF post : Glasgow Bin Lorry Incident : Finsbury Park Mosque / Muslim Welfare Centre "White Van Man" event on 19 June 2017



Quote:


From the "Glasgow Bin Lorry incident" on 22 December 2014


to the Finsbury Park "White Van Man" event on 19 June 2017 is :


INClusive =


= 911 days



The Number : 911




Quote:


See also :


The Finsbury Park "White Van Man" event on 19 June 2017 : Pontyclun Van Hire : Margaret Thatcher


Finsbury Park Mosque : The UK's accession to the EC : European Communities Act 1972


The Finsbury Park "White Van Man" event on 19 June 2017 : British National Party


The Finsbury Park "White Van Man" event on 19 June 2017 : US President GW Bush




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Old 23-06-2017, 11:13 AM   #275
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Darren John Osborne charged with murder & attempted murder


On the anniversary of the Brexit vote on 23 June 2016 ...


Met Police

Man charged following the terrorist incident in Seven Sisters Road, Finsbury Park

News • Jun 23, 2017 11:56 BST

Following an investigation by the MPS Counter Terrorism Command, Darren John Osborne, 47, (3.11.69), from Cardiff, was today, Friday 23 June, charged with terrorism related murder and attempted murder.

This was in relation to the terrorist attack in Seven Sisters Road, London N4 in the early hours of Monday 19 June.

He has been remanded in custody to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court this afternoon.



See also : Guardian : Finsbury Park attack victim died of multiple injuries, tests find - Makram Ali





.

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Old 23-06-2017, 11:54 AM   #276
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40381794

Luciferian hand symbol? (Sorry for the link I'm can't upload picture).
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Old 24-06-2017, 11:55 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by princeprospero View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40381794

Luciferian hand symbol? (Sorry for the link I'm can't upload picture).
done it for you..



Im not so sure tbh
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Old 24-06-2017, 12:06 PM   #278
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The ideas of the terrorists will never be stamped out, not in our lifetimes anyway. The Russians and Chinese did their best to stamp out religion and just drove it underground where people's beliefs were only strengthened.
Being religious does not make you a terrorist no matter what David Icke says about religion being a form a madness. The Russian and Chinese atheist state terrorism proves that being religious is not the end of the world. David Icke wants to bring people together but then he divides everyone again by calling people who hold religious beliefs mad. He should just limit himself to calling religious institutions madness but he can't help himself but go further.

Anyway, you are not comparing equivalent things.

Over history, terrorist groups have been stamped out frequently. Terrorism has never been stamped out. That has multiple causes. The stamping out of terrorism can itself cause terrorism as well as being a form of terrorism.
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Old 25-06-2017, 01:23 PM   #279
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Being religious does not make you a terrorist no matter what David Icke says about religion being a form a madness. The Russian and Chinese atheist state terrorism proves that being religious is not the end of the world. David Icke wants to bring people together but then he divides everyone again by calling people who hold religious beliefs mad. He should just limit himself to calling religious institutions madness but he can't help himself but go further.

Anyway, you are not comparing equivalent things.

Over history, terrorist groups have been stamped out frequently. Terrorism has never been stamped out. That has multiple causes. The stamping out of terrorism can itself cause terrorism as well as being a form of terrorism.
So did Tony Bliar not end Irish terrorism with the stroke of a pen in 2001/2?

Terrorism is a tool, its required by governments to manipulate changes the public would oppose
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The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Example:Tesla aimed to give mankind a leap of technology so that we can prosper as a species
What actually happened was he gave the wealthy elite the tools with which to enslave us..
Both psychopaths and sociopaths are devoid of empathy or morals, these are the true enemy of mankind - Elite
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