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Old 09-03-2010, 04:27 PM   #21
foobar
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Originally Posted by pi3141 View Post
Ford's Hemp powered and produced from Hemp car running on Ethanol produced from Hemp or Potato.
There's nothing controversial about the idea we can make alcohol from vegetable matter, it just takes a lot of land.

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Paper production from Hemp being more efficient and having less environmental impact than traditional paper production.
I don't think there's anything unscientific being said here.

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Salters Duck as a method for producing electricity more efficiently (cost effective) than nuclear.
Salters ducks have been around for a long time, they're not crank science. You need lots of them and be prepared to maintain them (especially after storms). Imagine the power loss you'd suffer after a storm which smashed them all up. The maintenance costs on these things would be substantial.

I'm skeptical that they'd really be that cheap or practical.

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An 'everlasting lightbulb' has been produced (in a variety of ways) with significantly greater life span than normal bulbs resulting in less environmental impact, cheaper product in the long run for the consumer.
Lots of modern products are deliberately built with 'planned redundancy'. This isn't crank science either, but it's not really got anything to do with 'free energy'. If you want to start making super-long life lightbulbs, there's no conspiracy stopping you.

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A car running on water and a small amount of Alluminum
Aluminium does produce hydrogen in water, but I don't believe that story because unless you alloy the Aluminium with Gallium or some other appropriate element, the Aluminium quickly stops reacting after forming an impermeable layer (similar to the dull sheen it gets in air from the thin impermeable layer of oxide). There's a professor at Purdue working with an Aluminium/Gallium compound at the moment, but it's not as efficient as claimed in the article, and the process is not yet as cost-effective as using petrol.

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

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And I have asked if you believe capitalism will ALWAYS result in the best and most efficient products coming to market.
No, but neither is there a conspiracy operating to suppress ideas. They're either workable but not as efficient as the inventors claim, or they simply don't work at all (like MEG and Orbo).

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If somebody found a way of generating energy without fuel.
I've yet to read a story where somebody claims this that wasn't an obvious fraud.

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Are you still researching these suggestions or will you now answer if they are or are not 'bullshit' ideas as you stated most turn out to be.
None of the things I've discussed in this post are free/fuel-less energy ideas, which are the kind of ideas I was talking about. I've various mentioned renewables before in a positive light. I'm talking about perpetual motion/static magnetic fields/'vacuum energy' crank devices like MEG and Orbo when I used the term bullshit.

Last edited by foobar; 09-03-2010 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:18 PM   #22
pi3141
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There's nothing controversial about the idea we can make alcohol from vegetable matter, it just takes a lot of land.
As I have stated, I don't believe if using Hemp it would take so much land to be unworkable. That was really my question. I cited Henry Ford and a webpage with a quote regarding Ethanol from potato.

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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
Salters ducks have been around for a long time, they're not crank science. You need lots of them and be prepared to maintain them (especially after storms). Imagine the power loss you'd suffer after a storm which smashed them all up. The maintenance costs on these things would be substantial.

I'm skeptical that they'd really be that cheap or practical.
Ok, I guess thats where you, me, Prof Salter and the government study differ in opinion

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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
Lots of modern products are deliberately built with 'planned redundancy'. This isn't crank science either, but it's not really got anything to do with 'free energy'. If you want to start making super-long life lightbulbs, there's no conspiracy stopping you.
I wasn't implying it was anything to do with crank science or free energy. I merely imply the idea that a company is not in business for the good of man. If a product comes along which is better than there's or reduces their profit there is a motive to surpress it. I note you state later in the thread that you agree capitalism does not always result in the best product.

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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
Aluminium does produce hydrogen in water, but I don't believe that story because unless you alloy the Aluminium with Gallium or some other appropriate element, the Aluminium quickly stops reacting after forming an impermeable layer (similar to the dull sheen it gets in air from the thin impermeable layer of oxide). There's a professor at Purdue working with an Aluminium/Gallium compound at the moment, but it's not as efficient as claimed in the article, and the process is not yet as cost-effective as using petrol.

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html
Fair enough, thanks for the link. Cars running water and aluminum requires more study and can still be put down to a 'maybe' Not free energy, but I believe they are workable and definitely an improvement on petrol powered cars. IMO

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If somebody found a way of generating energy without fuel.
I don't know where you got that from. I certainly didn't post it.

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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
None of the things I've discussed in this post are free/fuel-less energy ideas, which are the kind of ideas I was talking about. I've various mentioned renewables before in a positive light. I'm talking about perpetual motion/static magnetic fields/'vacuum energy' crank devices like MEG and Orbo when I used the term bullshit.
No, but thats not what we were discussing. I stated -

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And there are many stories of people with good alternative ideas that have been bought off or blocked by them.
To which you responded

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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
I've read a few of these stories, but it always turns out to be from unreliable sources and the few I've followed up turned out to be bullshit. Give me some starting points for the ones that you think are reliable.
Hence I gave a list of alternative ideas that I believe have been surpressed, ignored or blocked in the interests of capitalism and not for the benefit of the public.

Thank you for the response. I will continue to believe the conclusion in my preceeding sentence that alternative ideas have been surpressed, ignored or blocked as I have learnt nothing here to change my opinion or challenge the validity of that opinion.
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:09 AM   #23
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As I have stated, I don't believe if using Hemp it would take so much land to be unworkable. That was really my question. I cited Henry Ford and a webpage with a quote regarding Ethanol from potato.
Henry Ford was talking about one low-mileage vehicle for a hundred years. When you talk about 100 relatively high-mileage vehicles for a single year, that suddenly becomes a lot more land than you were picturing.

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Ok, I guess thats where you, me, Prof Salter and the government study differ in opinion
Yes. Prof Salter isn't exactly the only Professor in the field, and government studies are often full of crap. Switching backwards and forwards between 'official science is all about gatekeeping' and 'ooh, ooh! there's a professor who agrees with me!' is kind of irrational, no ?

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I wasn't implying it was anything to do with crank science or free energy. I merely imply the idea that a company is not in business for the good of man. If a product comes along which is better than there's or reduces their profit there is a motive to surpress it. I note you state later in the thread that you agree capitalism does not always result in the best product.
How are you claiming they suppress it ? Don't you understand that other companies get started all the time, specifically with the purpose of exploiting new ideas that undermine the products of older, larger companies ?

Big corporations don't have secret services that they fund to run around the world killing more effective products just to be nasty. That's a cranky paranoid myth. If it were true, Microsoft would've been killed at birth by IBM.

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Thank you for the response. I will continue to believe the conclusion in my preceeding sentence that alternative ideas have been surpressed, ignored or blocked as I have learnt nothing here to change my opinion or challenge the validity of that opinion.
There's just no evidence for the idea that big corporations have these secret agents roaming the world deliberately subverting good ideas. It doesn't make sense for them to do that from a purely selfish perspective.
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:45 AM   #24
pi3141
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Henry Ford was talking about one low-mileage vehicle for a hundred years. When you talk about 100 relatively high-mileage vehicles for a single year, that suddenly becomes a lot more land than you were picturing.
Foobar do you even read my posts properly? Did you look at this link I provided -

http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/ethanol.htm

I am suggesting using a combination of Ethanol derived from Hemp, Potato and as the referenced webpage suggests Corn Bushels. The man at that page has done the numbers and suggests we could get off Petrol dependancy within 3 years using Corn bushels alone. If you can show me where he's wrong thats great, but otherwise, you haven't answered anything.


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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
Yes. Prof Salter isn't exactly the only Professor in the field, and government studies are often full of crap. Switching backwards and forwards between 'official science is all about gatekeeping' and 'ooh, ooh! there's a professor who agrees with me!' is kind of irrational, no ?
Not really, your making it out to be like that, but I simply take information from all available sources. Are you saying I should decide whether to believe mainstream or fringe and never the twain shall meet? Seems very shortsighted too me. You don't believe in the Big Bang - well isn't that just switching backwards and forwards between 'official' sicence and 'fringe' science - isn't that kind of irrational?

See this really annoys me, you've now managed to drag me down to your level which is totally beneath me.


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How are you claiming they suppress it ? Don't you understand that other companies get started all the time, specifically with the purpose of exploiting new ideas that undermine the products of older, larger companies ?
Yes I understand that. Don't you understand that often these companies then get bpought up and shut down by the larger companies they are competeing with. Thats just business.

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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
Big corporations don't have secret services that they fund to run around the world killing more effective products just to be nasty. That's a cranky paranoid myth. If it were true, Microsoft would've been killed at birth by IBM.
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Originally Posted by foobar View Post
There's just no evidence for the idea that big corporations have these secret agents roaming the world deliberately subverting good ideas. It doesn't make sense for them to do that from a purely selfish perspective.
It makes perfect sense from a capitalist point of view to save their own business - whether it can be shown that they do actually do it would need looking at on a case by case basis. But why have secret services when people may well come knocking directly at your door as Mr Cornish did when he wrote to BMW with that water-aluminum car.

Your suggesting secret agents and blowing this point up to sound ridiculous, this seems to be part of your strategy. In the previous post you suggested by apparently quoting me that I stated 'If someone produces energy without fuel' I did not state that, its quite a ridiculous statement, you have not appologised or corrected the error. It seems you are trying to discredit my arguments by making up statements. To be honest I've had enough, either you debate fairly or don't bother please. Its childish playground tactics which reveals your mentality in my opinion.
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Old 10-03-2010, 12:15 PM   #25
foobar
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Originally Posted by pi3141 View Post
Foobar do you even read my posts properly? Did you look at this link I provided -

http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/ethanol.htm

I am suggesting using a combination of Ethanol derived from Hemp, Potato and as the referenced webpage suggests Corn Bushels. The man at that page has done the numbers and suggests we could get off Petrol dependancy within 3 years using Corn bushels alone. If you can show me where he's wrong thats great, but otherwise, you haven't answered anything.
You did note the vast expansion of corn production he notes would be necessary, right ?

His estimate of 3 years for the infrastructure changes required isn't realistic.

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Not really, your making it out to be like that, but I simply take information from all available sources. Are you saying I should decide whether to believe mainstream or fringe and never the twain shall meet?
You should exercise discrimination. You're treating all sources as equally valid until disproved at present, which is likely to result in you wasting an awful lot of time.


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You don't believe in the Big Bang - well isn't that just switching backwards and forwards between 'official' sicence and 'fringe' science - isn't that kind of irrational?
No, because changes in opinion amongst scientists occur according to more rigorous criteria.

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Yes I understand that. Don't you understand that often these companies then get bpought up and shut down by the larger companies they are competeing with. Thats just business.
This is largely a myth.

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It makes perfect sense from a capitalist point of view to save their own business
Spending money buying a company with a better product, and then instead of getting rich selling the new product, just deliberately destroying it? Sounds nuts to me.

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- whether it can be shown that they do actually do it would need looking at on a case by case basis.
Show me three cases of it happening for real. This 'big corp xxx bought out and that's why you don't see his idea in the stores!' is a very common conspiracy theory employed in this field. It's usually bullshit caused by cognitive dissonance in somebody refusing to accept that the physics the 'invention' was based on was just science fiction.

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But why have secret services when people may well come knocking directly at your door as Mr Cornish did when he wrote to BMW with that water-aluminum car.

Your suggesting secret agents and blowing this point up to sound ridiculous, this seems to be part of your strategy. In the previous post you suggested by apparently quoting me that I stated 'If someone produces energy without fuel' I did not state that, its quite a ridiculous statement, you have not appologised or corrected the error. It seems you are trying to discredit my arguments by making up statements. To be honest I've had enough, either you debate fairly or don't bother please. Its childish playground tactics which reveals your mentality in my opinion.
I'm not interested in 'discrediting you', because you aren't trying to sell anything which I consider bogus. I'm just trying to persuade you to stop wasting your time with crank internet inventions based on junk physics that don't work.
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Old 29-01-2019, 05:43 AM   #26
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