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Old 23-12-2012, 05:56 PM   #81
deinonychus
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here you contradict yourself.
nailing me with 'creationist...but admitting there are different kinds of creationists.
generally, creationism acknowledges the abrahamic god as creator. (according to your link)
i do not acknowledge your tyrant god.
Yes, different kind of creationists.. but somehow we can't call all of them creationists. /facepalm.

You believe in a 'creative power' and 'souls', the only reason you object is because you don't wish to be associated with Christianity, even though nobody would make that association here. You are like the New Ager saying he has no religious beliefs but does have spiritual beliefs. It's pointless semantics, you believe in a creative spiritual power and that makes you a creationist whether you like it or not.

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Old 23-12-2012, 06:02 PM   #82
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Yes, different kind of creationists.. but somehow we can't call all of them creationists. /facepalm.

You believe in a 'creative power' and 'souls', the only reason you object is because you don't wish to be associated with Christianity, even though nobody would make that association here. You are like the New Ager saying he has no religious beliefs but does have spiritual beliefs. It's pointless semantics, you believe in a creative spiritual power and that makes you a creationist whether you like it or not.
you have not got a clue.
semantics...
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Old 23-12-2012, 06:04 PM   #83
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you have not got a clue.
semantics...
What are the origins of the universe? How did life start and when/how did souls come into existence?
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Old 23-12-2012, 06:12 PM   #84
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If you believe in souls then you believe in creationism, in some way or another you believe that the spiritual created the material.
You don't need to believe in souls to believe in creationism (many racial egalitarians don't.) You just have to have the bizarre belief in human neurological uniformity -- that humans are someone special and miraculous such that evolution does not operate in them from the neck-up, that different human population groups evolving in different environmental conditions and obviously different from each other morphologically and anatomically and physiologically nontheless have the same human "blank slate" brain and no pre-existing cognitive, behavioural or temperament dispositions obtain as they obviously do among all sub-species of every earthly species. It's called liberal creationism.

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Old 23-12-2012, 06:12 PM   #85
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What are the origins of the universe? How did life start and when/how did souls come into existence?
the universe began with the big bang.
i have absolutely no idea about the origin of spirit.

i do not pretend to have the answers.

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Old 23-12-2012, 07:04 PM   #86
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here you contradict yourself.
nailing me with 'creationist...but admitting there are different kinds of creationists.
generally, creationism acknowledges the abrahamic god as creator. (according to your link)

i do not acknowledge your tyrant god.
That's a problem if you believe there is or was a creative 'force' or architect so-to-speak. Or whatever people call it. Divine spark, the source, the force, etc.

Atheists are generally opposed to this. The problem is if you believe in the above (or something related), you are lumped into the same category as a creationist in the Abrahamic sense. And yes I'll agree that creation is generally understood to mean Genesis, but it shouldn't. Neither should being opposed to atheism automatically lump you into the same category as a god-fearing Abrahamist by association which is often the case.

The fact that atheists can be so black or white, so close-minded often to the point of being rude, and so ignorant when they enter a religious debate (unfamiliar with the religion), I very much consider atheism to be a cult if not a religion itself.
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:10 PM   #87
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the universe began with the big bang.
i have absolutely no idea about the origin of spirit.

i do not pretend to have the answers.
Can you give me an example of an explosion that resulted in the creation of an infinitely complex and ordered organism? Explosions seem to me to be generally entropic and destructive forces. Why do we bother to build houses? We could just get piles of bricks, timber and cement, blow them up and see what type of bungalow appears when the smoke clears.

Where did the stuff that exploded come from?

Where did "forces" that caused the explosion come from?
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:18 PM   #88
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The fact that atheists can be so black or white, so close-minded often to the point of being rude, and so ignorant when they enter a religious debate (unfamiliar with the religion), I very much consider atheism to be a cult if not a religion itself.
Right.
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an ignorant, babbling hooligan out to destroy the Christian religion
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:20 PM   #89
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the universe began with the big bang.
i have absolutely no idea about the origin of spirit.

i do not pretend to have the answers.
Big bang is a theory, not a fact. A theory that mainstream science supports even though the very evidence originally given for the theory has been shown to be wrong. The theory was based mostly on redshifts being taken for doppler shifts and as doppler shifts proof of an expanding universe. Redshifts have since been observed as proof that they are not doppler shifts and proof that the universe is not expanding. The big bang theory is dead. Conjecture over the nature of quasars, for example, is used to support the theory when they don't even know what quasars even are. They don't know if they are baby galaxies or ancient galaxy light. They don't know anything other than what we can observe here on Earth which compared to the universe is nothing.

At this point, the big bang theory is religious as far as I'm concerned. A faith-based belief supported by no physical evidence.
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:27 PM   #90
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Big bang is a theory, not a fact. .
so is 'the theory of gravity'.
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #91
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Where did "forces" that caused the explosion come from?
i do not know.
anyone who claims to, is a fool.

i am not an atheist.
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:42 PM   #92
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Big bang is a theory, not a fact.
You didn't seriously just say that... Please define a scientific theory, would you?

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A theory that mainstream science supports even though the very evidence originally given for the theory has been shown to be wrong. The theory was based mostly on redshifts being taken for doppler shifts and as doppler shifts proof of an expanding universe.
Well, the redshift IS the Doppler effect observed in light, the redshift z=(λ(o)-λ(e))/λ(e).

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Redshifts have since been observed as proof that they are not doppler shifts and proof that the universe is not expanding.
Say what?

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The big bang theory is dead. Conjecture over the nature of quasars, for example, is used to support the theory when they don't even know what quasars even are. They don't know if they are baby galaxies or ancient galaxy light. They don't know anything other than what we can observe here on Earth which compared to the universe is nothing.
Of course we know nothing that we can't observe on Earth (or the immediate proximity thereof), so what? It's impossible for us to observe anything that we can't observe on Earth is we can't use what we can observe on Earth in the process. See, we need to do science here on Earth first, then we can maybe get somewhere else.

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At this point, the big bang theory is religious as far as I'm concerned. A faith-based belief supported by no physical evidence.
You like doing that a lot, don't you? Projection is the word of the day. Anyway, why don't you go read some Hawking or something, maybe you'll understand a bit better after.
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an ignorant, babbling hooligan out to destroy the Christian religion
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:47 PM   #93
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The fact that atheists can be so black or white, so close-minded often to the point of being rude, and so ignorant when they enter a religious debate (unfamiliar with the religion), I very much consider atheism to be a cult if not a religion itself.
How's that any different to the black and white-ness of believing the existence of a god, often to the point of going to war or committing acts of terrorism against anyone who has the cheek to disagree with them?
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Old 23-12-2012, 07:53 PM   #94
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The fact that atheists can be so black or white, so close-minded often to the point of being rude, and so ignorant when they enter a religious debate (unfamiliar with the religion).
my irony meter broke.
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Old 23-12-2012, 08:51 PM   #95
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You didn't seriously just say that... Please define a scientific theory, would you?
Yes I seriously said that. Theories are not facts. That's a huge problem we have in this world where unproven theories are taken as facts. Theoretical science is a field of mostly junk science.

A scientific theory is a guess. Usually presented with supporting 'evidence'. The evidence is a claim. Sometimes the evidence fits and is convincing. Theories are not self-evident. Often when one comes up with a theory, they also have confirmation bias clouding their judgement. It's why two identical experiments can have two different sets of results depending on the experimenter.

When you politicize any kind of science, especially theoretical science, then prepare for a barrage of bullshit being dogmatically accepted as irrefutable facts. Radical alternative theories are frowned upon by the group thinkers, even good theories. Information is controlled via the exploitable peer review process. Then you got things like political correctness, credibility, funding, potential psychopaths steering discourse, and what you're left with is not fact. Just junk that cannot be disproven yet cannot be proven either.

Einstein presented his theory of relativity with no supportive evidence.

Just google: redshifts not doppler

A consensus of opinion, especially an 'educated' academic opinion, is still an opinion. The majority can be wrong, especially when knowledge is used as conditioning. Give somebody the most through and prestigious academic education possible and don't ever expect anything against the grain or unorthodox.

How is this kind of mind different than being brainwashed by religion?

If you want to talk about close-mindedness, re-read your entire post. As for your previous sarcastic post, if you were accusing me of thinking black and white and being rude, please explain. Because considering atheism to be a cult or a religion is black and white and closed-minded? Since when is considering belief? If you're trying to call me our on a double standard, please explain. Faith and belief whether in theory or in religion does not make the unknown known. But they do create perceptions that aren't easy to come out of, confining you to a box.
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Old 23-12-2012, 08:55 PM   #96
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Atheism is the replacement religion of thiose who feel better calling a religion and a belief not religion.
Minus a spiritual base they usually lack, since atheists are usually materialists.
Materialism is another cult and religion, just modern, where the god is money and material things.

Expression of Materialism/Atheism religion is the LHC.

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Old 23-12-2012, 09:01 PM   #97
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How's that any different to the black and white-ness of believing the existence of a god, often to the point of going to war or committing acts of terrorism against anyone who has the cheek to disagree with them?
How is that relevant in response to me?

I am not religious. I am not an atheist. There is no justification for people to go to war or commit acts of terror over it.

If you thought I was defending Abrahamic creation, I wasn't. And this is just another example of being lumped in by association.

I think the universe was created by something we cannot understand or comprehend, something that might be intelligent or transcend intelligence. It could even be some sort of simulation. I don't know that it was, nor do I believe that it was. I have no way of knowing other than blind faith which I have none of. This is not the same as black&white belief in genocidal YHWH where those who don't believe get massacred.

Atheists killing others for not agreeing with them has happened before too. The Bolshevik revolution that led to the Soviet union along with the early Soviet leadership (who were Bolsheviks) being a good example of it.

I think I understand this and I think it has nothing to do with belief in a god or whatever. I think it has to do with belief, especially if you can get a large enough group to follow you in belief. Then people argue over what they believe. Some people get violent or kill those opposed to their belief. In anything. A god, a religion, an idea, a model of government, and opinion more often than not.

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Old 23-12-2012, 09:03 PM   #98
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Religion is bullshit. I mean,real bullshit,mind control through fear of the unknown.
Religious ones are the type who believed the Earth was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth. Heretics!
Believing in gods is akin to believing in the tooth fairy,grow up and open your eyes.
Catholic church=paedophile apologists.
Jewish=money adorers
CofE=hand wringing jam makers.
Muslims=bomb making killers.

Get real and take some responsibility for your own lives and actions.
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Old 23-12-2012, 09:36 PM   #99
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A scientific theory is a guess.
No, a scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. I hope that cleared this up for you.

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Usually presented with supporting 'evidence'. The evidence is a claim. Sometimes the evidence fits and is convincing. Theories are not self-evident. Often when one comes up with a theory, they also have confirmation bias clouding their judgement. It's why two identical experiments can have two different sets of results depending on the experimenter.
Which is where peer-review swoops in.

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When you politicize any kind of science, especially theoretical science, then prepare for a barrage of bullshit being dogmatically accepted as irrefutable facts. Radical alternative theories are frowned upon by the group thinkers, even good theories. Information is controlled via the exploitable peer review process. Then you got things like political correctness, credibility, funding, potential psychopaths steering discourse, and what you're left with is not fact. Just junk that cannot be disproven yet cannot be proven either.
Cool story bro. However, you're factually wrong on some key points. I'd suggest looking into the criteria for a scientific theory.

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Einstein presented his theory of relativity with no supportive evidence.
Not empirical, no, but he did device a number of tests for his theory as well as some predictions, all of which have been proven correct.

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Just google: redshifts not doppler
"Google it" isn't exactly rigorous scientific study, especially when the sources available have long since been disproved.

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Originally Posted by believenothing View Post
A consensus of opinion, especially an 'educated' academic opinion, is still an opinion. The majority can be wrong, especially when knowledge is used as conditioning. Give somebody the most through and prestigious academic education possible and don't ever expect anything against the grain or unorthodox.
OK.

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How is this kind of mind different than being brainwashed by religion?
What mind?

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If you want to talk about close-mindedness, re-read your entire post. As for your previous sarcastic post, if you were accusing me of thinking black and white and being rude, please explain. Because considering atheism to be a cult or a religion is black and white and closed-minded? Since when is considering belief? If you're trying to call me our on a double standard, please explain. Faith and belief whether in theory or in religion does not make the unknown known. But they do create perceptions that aren't easy to come out of, confining you to a box.
I'm close-minded, because... I know what the Doppler effect is?

Yes, considering atheism to be a cult or a religion is thinking in black and white, very good. Placing every person who happens to hold a single belief in a single issue in the same homogeneous group is indeed closed-minded and thinking in black and white.
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Old 23-12-2012, 09:39 PM   #100
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Atheism is the replacement religion of thiose who feel better calling a religion and a belief not religion.
Eh?

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Minus a spiritual base they usually lack, since atheists are usually materialists.
So a religion that's not a religion. Brilliant.

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Materialism is another cult and religion, just modern, where the god is money and material things.
Honey, not everything you dislike is a cult, m'kay? Words have meanings.

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Expression of Materialism/Atheism religion is the LHC.
Awesome.
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