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Old 25-03-2010, 10:57 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by severinwolf View Post
If the footage at the end was added (after the initial Bitey run) then who says anybody was killed by this thing at all? Just a thought...
Good point. The teeth-biting has always been suspicious.

It could have been running to give the cameraman his keys after he had dropped them (kidding)
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Old 25-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #142
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If the footage at the end was added (after the initial Bitey run) then who says anybody was killed by this thing at all? Just a thought...
the other film, gable 2 did. This thing seemed to be aggressive, VERY aggressive no one looking at this film can deny that. Surely the impression one gets from it is that it attacked a person who was filming it. Surely from its size one would assume that a person was killed or mauled beyond belief by said animal.
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Old 25-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #143
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It's all a hoax
- Why do this, especially if you've got WAY above-average movie-making skills? Hollywood would die for originality like this
Apparently not... Mike claims to have tried to promote and sell the footage before resorting to Steve Cook.

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It's a coverup
- Of what?- Bitey?
A cryptozoological animal / shapeshifter / entity outside accepted science. Definitely worth covering up. But with a Monsterquest episode? ... Maybe so.
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Old 25-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #144
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The point is, it's been well over twenty years since I was on a military base, so I can't say how they train now, I don't know whether or not they may have have started to train special forces to fool aircraft and ground units by impersonating bears and dogs - I couldn't say. All that I CAN say is that if this was MIKE / Don / QUINLAN doing this THIS WELL and THIS CONVINCING,
then he was either the top of his class at Ranger school in this kinda thing - or he has some seriously freaky birth defects that he ain't talkin about.
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Old 25-03-2010, 10:58 PM   #145
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Yup, I'm still thinking about motives, but there's an issue of motives on all sides:

It's all a hoax
- Why do this, especially if you've got WAY above-average movie-making skills? Hollywood would die for originality like this

It's a coverup
- Of what?- Bitey? Why hasn't Bitey killed more people (this is a good question which has got me thinking)?

Concerning the lack of Bitey death-count, this could be covered up if he was a federal experiment, and maybe he's only been 'unleashed' on a handful of occasions. Nevertheless, returning to your point, Hudepohl, this is- I am thoroughly aware- an extraordinary claim for which I have only tenuous proof from an unreliable source (when Quinlan referred to a federal coverup in the blurb for GF3).
If Bitey is real I'ld suggest that he eats smaller/docile forest animals as his regular diet and would rarely cross paths with people. Like other large carnivores.

Just a thought about Steve Cook, he's been busy collecting all those Dogman sightings and making people feel ok with coming forward on this. Are average Joe Publics who've seen something strange and disturbing going to trust any website ever again after this? Especially after he said cryptids are nonsense and he never really believe in the Dogman. Way to go Steve.
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Old 25-03-2010, 10:59 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by shankers View Post
Yup, I'm still thinking about motives, but there's an issue of motives on all sides:

It's all a hoax
- Why do this, especially if you've got WAY above-average movie-making skills? Hollywood would die for originality like this

It's a coverup
- Of what?- Bitey? Why hasn't Bitey killed more people (this is a good question which has got me thinking)?

Concerning the lack of Bitey death-count, this could be covered up if he was a federal experiment, and maybe he's only been 'unleashed' on a handful of occasions. Nevertheless, returning to your point, Hudepohl, this is- I am thoroughly aware- an extraordinary claim for which I have only tenuous proof from an unreliable source (when Quinlan referred to a federal coverup in the blurb for GF3).
Fair enough. Good luck for it is that kind of proof that is necessary for the "extraordinary" to make leap to the "ordinary" accepted by science. And until that day arrives, discussions on a forum will be all it ever is.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:02 PM   #147
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It was more the way you put it than what you had to say, with the repeated use of shouty capitals. You've deleted it since. Moreover, it was quite assumptive, i.e.,that the people on this board don't have lives and families. Maybe, as with me, this thread has caught my imagination, especially at such a key time in the story. I realise that my prior comment about it going quiet wasn't probably the most tactful, but I was annoyed at the attitude of "I told you so" coming out over the course of the previous 40 pages. I'm not here to antagonise anybody, so let's all continue the thread as it has been going over the last dozen pages, i.e., working together to figure out what's been going on, one way or another.
I haven't deleted anything. Where have I deleted something? I got tired of the shouting from the moutain tops this is a conspiracy..and the "they are really quiet aye, gathering fake evidence to say I told you so" No one said anything of that nature, the only one's I saw throwing that around was SOL!
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:03 PM   #148
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Raven heard something non-kosher alright, howls and growls in the Manistee forest! I am actually friends with Linda, Adam Davis, Raven Meindel, knew of Steve Cook through the group Unknowncreaturespot but couldnt really call him friend cause he was hardly on there. Never heard of this Mike Argula dude.
I interviewed the likes of Janice Carter Coy of the Bigfoot habituation fiasco, Ken Gerhard, Chad aka Wolf about the Nalusa falaya, Joe Fex of Apexresearch..I am co-host of Crypto four corners radio although our show has been on the hiatus for a few months as our host JC Johnson has been busy lately with a different type of investigation more paranormal than cryptid. I have seen footage of things that I can't explain from some of his investigations and I believe those to be more important than this film.
IF and that's a big IF there is a cover up in this particular film..then where are the other bodies? Surley a creature such as this would have killed more people..once it tasted human blood it would have wanted more I would assume. So where are the other stories about this creature? I believe this to be a hoax because there ARE no other stories about people being killed by this thing..it reminds me of the beast of LBL which ALSO turned out to be a fake. So am I to believe this film that these people made, who HAD the ability to make it? The funds even..I believe that Steve Cook was in this from the get go, I dont believe for a minute that he did not have a hand in the making of this film. I believe he MAY have hired this man to make this, then made up the whole damn story about it being shot on 8mm film, I believe he used layers of different animals to achieve the morphing bits. Thats what I believe.
If JC puts that footage on the net, would you please post it here on icke forum? We would love it!

The werewolves/dogmen in Wisconsin and Michigan have not been reported to hurt humans, like in the France werewolf stories. I think the closest story was the cabin with the scratch marks on it in MQ (someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this). I pointed out before that these dogmens biggest crime seems to be following people or scaring them, not trying to take a bite out of them. So....if this Gable film footage + teeth is real, it shows an exception to this rule. Since Gable 2 is fake, we can feel a little better that someone maybe wasn't eaten in half over this. We already know the DNR is a shady operation and it's totally possible they have an x-files box for all the reports on this creature. I am still very interested that they claimed no animal fatalities within the 70s when we can find Michael Patterson on wikipedia.

Interesting theory on Cook by the way.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:03 PM   #149
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If Bitey is real I'ld suggest that he eats smaller/docile forest animals as his regular diet and would rarely cross paths with people. Like other large carnivores.

Just a thought about Steve Cook, he's been busy collecting all those Dogman sightings and making people feel ok with coming forward on this. Are average Joe Publics who've seen something strange and disturbing going to trust any website ever again after this? Especially after he said cryptids are nonsense and he never really believe in the Dogman. Way to go Steve.
'eats smaller animals'- could be like a bear, i..e., will rarely attack humans

'Just a thought about Steve Cook'- you've spelled out clearly the extent to which he has shot himself in the foot.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:06 PM   #150
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...

Just a thought about Steve Cook, he's been busy collecting all those Dogman sightings and making people feel ok with coming forward on this. Are average Joe Publics who've seen something strange and disturbing going to trust any website ever again after this? Especially after he said cryptids are nonsense and he never really believe in the Dogman. Way to go Steve.
Steve is absolutely aware that he's guilty of bad behavior. Hence his incredible effort to make it seem like some kind of sociological experiment or something...

Total disrespect towards cryptozoology, the very field which made him well known to begin with.

His dogman song succcksss and he had to resort to this footage - so he did. But once Linda and others on the Monsterquest crew found out long before the episode aired that it was a fake, the disgust aimed at him scared him into admitting it (and trying to save face) on the Monsterquest episode! Which was fun to see...

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Alright, for everyone who hasn't seen the Monsterquest yet...

I will summarize.

Part 1:

50 mins into show:

Linda : This video is... spicious...


*Linda sits down with Steve Cook*

Linda : Steve... I know you're a liar. So I'm going to make you admit this to everyone now.




Steve: *gulp* I did not claim authenticity or anything related to this clip... but yes, I am a liar. The film was a fake and it got out of control, please don't hate me world!


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Old 25-03-2010, 11:06 PM   #151
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I think somebody already pointed out that the object near the 'tail' is a branch stump from the tree.

And also, the hump on the back of the animal could be deciphered as more padding under the Ghillie suit. But Mike didn't show anything like that to the MQ crew.
[/I]

I'm not real comfortable with the tree branch/stump theory. I don't know. Playing with the light levels reveals something I think is a little interesting. Maybe I am alone here but I think there would be some sign of a "break" were it something seperate.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:08 PM   #152
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Apparently not... Mike claims to have tried to promote and sell the footage before resorting to Steve Cook.



A cryptozoological animal / shapeshifter / entity outside accepted science. Definitely worth covering up. But with a Monsterquest episode? ... Maybe so.
Yeah, I noticed Mike's claims, too. Didn't quite ring true. Maybe Hollywood would find it TOO original in this age of 'safe' remakes and sequels (although Gable Film had a few!), but even a smaller, perhaps artier, film studio would take a punt on something as amazing as the Gable Film.

As for using MonsterQuest to cover up a cryptid, it's the ultimate way of making people cease asking questions by getting trusted insiders of the scene to do the debunking for you!
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:14 PM   #153
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Think you're probably right there, Metacomet: MQ had Cook between a rock and a hard place, and he had no choice but to come clean. Watcher talked about karma earlier, and it came back to bite Steve in the ass for a) making the dogman song (it does suck a fat wang) and b) being involved in some way with the hoax. I know Steve's been calling it a hoax for a long time, but he should have given us the precise details in depth a long, long time ago.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #154
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Think you're probably right there, Metacomet: MQ had Cook between a rock and a hard place, and he had no choice but to come clean. Watcher talked about karma earlier, and it came back to bite Steve in the ass for a) making the dogman song (it does suck a fat wang) and b) being involved in some way with the hoax. I know Steve's been calling it a hoax for a long time, but he should have given us the precise details in depth a long, long time ago.
So true, instead we had to endure Don and his Gable fable.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #155
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Just a thought about Steve Cook, he's been busy collecting all those Dogman sightings and making people feel ok with coming forward on this. Are average Joe Publics who've seen something strange and disturbing going to trust any website ever again after this? Especially after he said cryptids are nonsense and he never really believe in the Dogman. Way to go Steve.
great post merla

i was really disappointed the way MQ went through the sightings on the dogman site to belittle them, like those casts that the DNR couldn't identify, are just called a normal wolf by the narrator at the end...they didn't expound on how they reached that conclusion! when evidence isn't good enough evidence, it becomes very discouraging...
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:18 PM   #156
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...

I know Steve's been calling it a hoax for a long time, but he should have given us the precise details in depth a long, long time ago.
Before he makes money on it!? Hehe...

Actually, do we know if he made much money on this yet?
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:22 PM   #157
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Before he makes money on it!? Hehe...

Actually, do we know if he made much money on this yet?
Lol! Yeah. It's like Jake Gittes in Chinatown: "If you follow the money you will get to the truth"
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:25 PM   #158
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Was it a hoax? Of course. Was it intended to insult people or motivated by profit? Absolutely not. Neither Mike or I ever made a dime from the Gable Film. He gave the film to me, and I give the profits from the sales of Legend products to charity. Neither FOXNEWS or MonsterQuest paid us for the film or our appearances. So why did we do it? Simple – it was great entertainment; for us, and for the thousands of people who analyzed, debated, and defended their opinions about the film. There hasn’t been this much excitement or controversy in the crypto-creature world in decades.
http://michigan-dogman.com/wordpress/?p=176#comments

LOL.
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:33 PM   #159
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Who would destroy their credibility for no profit?
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Old 25-03-2010, 11:36 PM   #160
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I would say the rationality concerning the belief that Bitey is real is around 50-50.

For
- Bitey would appear to be an unknown animal
- There has been no coherent alternative hypothesis concerning putative evidence of Bitey's existence, i.e., the 'charging' scene of GF1

Against
- We have no reliable corroborating evidence for Bitey's existence
- Bitey is surrounded by a sea of hoaxed evidence

Countering 'Against'
- The unreliable evidence and the lack of corroborating evidence could be a coverup

A rebuttal to the 'counter'
- Extraordinary evidence is required to support the motive for a coverup

Is there a way of moving forward with this case apart from waiting around and hoping something falls into our collective lap?
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