Vegan vs Meat Eating Mega Thread

[butters]

Originally Posted by hadabusa

because it tastes excellent.

enjoy life and all that.

vegans to me are like people who eat tree roots or something.

a tasty steak is the best imagineable food there is.

you sir are a riot

[plam]

Originally Posted by joya

Incorrect.

Ahimsa -- or rather the non-harming of any living creature -- is by no means a "new" concept.

Much of the new-age mumbo-jumbo is based on eastern philosophy.

Are plants not "living creatures"?

[joya]

Originally Posted by plam

Much of the new-age mumbo-jumbo is based on eastern philosophy.

Are plants not "living creatures"?

*shrug*

Life feeds on life.

I'm not here to judge, and I'm not here to argue. Everyone is different. And you are more than welcome to have whatever opinions you have.

A vegan/vegetarian lifestyle-choice is nothing new. That is all.

[vibratingpickle]

Originally Posted by wingedwolfpsion

Come, then. Let's LOOK at what the largest, and longest-lived animals on the planet actually eat. What is the largest animal on the planet?

It's the blue whale. What does the blue whale eat? Primarily krill. What are krill? They are small crustaceans. That sounds like...MEAT!

Krill feed on phytoplankton. Like plants, phytoplankton obtain energy directly from the sun via photosynthesis. Krill are the intermediary step required to convert that energy into a usable form for larger species. The remarkable fact here is the brevity of the food chain: near-microscopic phytoplankton feeds krill; krill, in turn, feed 200-ton whales. This represents one of the most efficient conversions of sunlight to protein on earth.

Chlorophyll is essential for healthy blood and the creation of healthy protein. Just like the in the elephant, the rhinoceros and the gorilla, healthy protein is made from healthy blood which is made from chlorophyll. It is also very anti-fungal.

Sorry, all you are promoting is second hand nutrients. Eating something that ate it for you.

[vibratingpickle]

Originally Posted by plam

Are plants not "living creatures"?

Yes, much like your fingernails and hair.

Most smaller plants are a part of a whole, a different form of consciousness that obviously you are not aware of.

Larger plants like trees are individual consciousness while still connected to a whole. We don't eat trees.

[mandrake]

Originally Posted by elirien

What do you mean with "unnatural"? Does milk and eat come from synthetics labs?

Of course it is natural. Atom bombs are natural.

It's unnatural because we take milk from cows who are kept in a perpetual state of pregnancy so you can drink it. Real natural dude.

[mandrake]

Originally Posted by plam

Much of the new-age mumbo-jumbo is based on eastern philosophy.

Are plants not "living creatures"?

Says the man who said in a post that a 'yin yang' diet was real and veganism was feminising men according to a traditional Chinese diet lolol.

Talk about shooting yourself in foot!

[mandrake]

Originally Posted by plam

So how do YOU explain the pigeon's behavior then?

Veganism is a branch of new-age religion and no wonder so many people here fall for it.

Why is veganism new-age?

And what about Mr Icke's beliefs? Aren't most of his 'new age'?

Why did Mr Icke speak about animal rights in his early days in the Green Party if it was nonsense.

Maybe animals aren't included in your idea of infinite love and oneness?

[plam]

Originally Posted by mandrake

Says the man who said in a post that a 'yin yang' diet was real and veganism was feminising men according to a traditional Chinese diet lolol.

Talk about shooting yourself in foot!

The East has some good ideas, they usually get perverted in the west as it is the case with new-age.

I don't share Icke's ideas about infinite love and oneness.
Love is a dirty word. Most people in history have been killed in the name of love.

Love is division, it requires two - "I love you", "you love me", "if you don't love me", "I won't love you". There can't be oneness with love.

[wingedwolfpsion]

Originally Posted by vibratingpickle

Krill feed on phytoplankton. Like plants, phytoplankton obtain energy directly from the sun via photosynthesis.

Umm...yes...and cows and rabbits feed on grass, which obtains energy directly from the sun via photosynthesis.

Krill are the intermediary step required to convert that energy into a usable form for larger species.

Right. Just as chickens and rabbits are. So, we eat the rabbits. The cows are actually larger than us, granted, but the principle is exactly the same.

The remarkable fact here is the brevity of the food chain: near-microscopic phytoplankton feeds krill; krill, in turn, feed 200-ton whales. This represents one of the most efficient conversions of sunlight to protein on earth.

You know, we can also eat krill.
http://www.conspac.com/recipes.html
Shrimp are awfully tasty. We also eat rabbits, chickens, and cows.
Guess what? Krill is not a vegetable.

Chlorophyll is essential for healthy blood and the creation of healthy protein. Just like the in the elephant, the rhinoceros and the gorilla, healthy protein is made from healthy blood which is made from chlorophyll. It is also very anti-fungal.

So, enjoy your salad? Guess who doesn't eat salad. The blue and bowhead whales. They don't eat plants, other than accidentally.

Sorry, all you are promoting is second hand nutrients. Eating something that ate it for you.

Because when something else eats grass, it is able to extract nutrients from it. I cannot extract nutrients from grass, because I am not an herbivore. Thus, I do in fact rely on other species to turn grass into a form of nutrition that my body is able to utilize--meat.

[wingedwolfpsion]

Originally Posted by vibratingpickle

Yes, much like your fingernails and hair.

Most smaller plants are a part of a whole, a different form of consciousness that obviously you are not aware of.

Larger plants like trees are individual consciousness while still connected to a whole. We don't eat trees.

SOME smaller plants are part of whole...grass seems to have a collective consciousness. Carrots, conversely, do not.
Obviously you are not aware of this. My fingernails and hair are DEAD. They were grown by my body, but they are not alive, much less separate entities. Plants are alive, and yes, most of them are individuals. Even for plants with a collective consciousness, what your saying is like saying an individual bee doesn't count, only the hive matters.

Guess what plants do NOT want you to do?
Eat them.
In fact, they very much want to remain alive, and they discuss among themselves how to prevent animals from eating them. They use chemical warfare to protect themselves, whenever they can.

just because their consciousness is different from animal consciousness, does not mean that they are inferior, that they are 'meant to be eaten', or that it is ethically ok to eat them, any more than it is ethically ok to eat an animal.

We are omnivores. We evolved to eat a mix of plants and animals. Why are you so bent on discarding your nature in favor of a delusional philosophy that involves painting the world as a friendly place where everyone gets along, even as you slaughter countless beings whose lives you hold in little regard simply because they happen to be stationary, and have cell walls?

[indolering]

wolfie, you're a shill for the brutal philosophy and practice of Darwinism, a depressing and delusional philosophy which claims we evolved from a lightning bolt in the mud, where no creative intelligence is necessary or desired, where life is a brutish struggle for survival (kill or be killed), wherein evolution is just a random mutation to who knows where....

Omnivore, indeed.

I can do no better than domathy's excellent post on diet.


[QUOTE]Its funny to see us all arguing about healthiest diet when we all have different definitions of what health means. Judging by many posts on this forum it seems that
Many people value physical strength above the many, many other measures of health.

Someone may be fit – but what is their character like?

Strength? what about health, flexibility, stamina, spirituality, body odor, skin tone, hair quality ie holistic health.

If I had to choose between sexy muscle bound warrior – (testosterone, raw power, adrenaline), or a more subtle physique able to experience finer and more subtle vibrations I would personally chose the latter. The warrior can fight their way out of trouble; the enlightened one doesn’t have to. Do we need more bone head warriors? (Though I don’t deny there is an agenda to castrate males and the world wars were about removing strong males from the gene pool – but meat and milk are a prime vehicle for this agenda due to all the hormones so veganism is not to blame) A warrior operates on the same level as the problem they are fighting against. Sometimes in one meditation session you can receive more insights and learning than from 10 years as a warrior and therefore have a far more productive life. The warrior battles in the physical realm but the meditator fights on other levels.
My personal feeling is that it is good to find a way to have a strong body (unlike Buddhist monks who neglect their body in pursuit of enlightenment) to be able to function (and rebel) and be useful In the physical realm whilst keeping yourself open to subtle vibrations by avoiding the consumption of meat. I personally believe meat suppresses spiritual awakening but the following article explores this subject quite well:

Dear Julia:
I read an article recently about how smoking is damaging to auras and how healers shouldn't smoke. I was wondering what the spiritual view on eating meat is. I love my meat but wonder about the effect it is having on my aura and vibration. Can you please shed some light on this topic?

Urchana

Dear Urchana:

As there is no singular "spiritual view" on any subject, the following is my own perspective, and is not meant to condone or condemn any particular lifestyle. (I spent a number of years as a vegetarian, during which time I learned what an incendiary topic this can be.) Further, I don't believe there is one diet that is right for all people; as with everything else in life, we must consult our own inner guidance to determine what is right and best for us.

Of course, we are also wise to look to nature to determine what will best nourish and sustain us physically, and there are things we must accept in order to live in peace on this planet. One is that death is inevitable; another is that there is a food chain in effect here, and in order to survive, other living beings must die. Even if we eat nothing but grass, the grass must die to feed us.

In order to be healthy, we can't eat nothing but grass, of course, so we are wise to listen to our bodies to determine the best diet for us. If we want to be physically strong and healthy, we must devote ourselves to physical health. We must actively exercise the body and engage the physical realm by eating of the fruits of the earth and interacting with the world around us. This is the archetype of the warrior or hunter who is all physical: he is at home in his body; he eats whatever he can catch without remorse; he takes what he can from the earth; and he grows physically strong and prosperous.

If we have goals beyond physical health and survival, then we may make different choices regarding a lot of things, including what we eat. When we begin to evolve spiritually and desire more than just physical survival, we start to long for higher, more abstract aims such as the development of wisdom and compassion. I assume that this is where you are coming from: you want to be both spiritually and physically "fit."

At the other end of the spectrum from the hunter, there are spiritual seekers like monks and gurus who have little or no interest in physical survival, who long for nothing but communion with the Divine. It is from this end of the spectrum that we get our ideas about eating meat being spiritually detrimental. Naturally, most of us fall somewhere in the middle of this spectrum, in that grey area where it can be hard to reason our way to what is right and best.

As is true of all things in Creation, different foods do have various vibrations, and every interaction affects us to some degree. When we ingest something, it tends to affect us strongly and directly, thus the common saying, You are what you eat. In fact, in some native cultures, certain animals were eaten in order to absorb their traits, and some peoples even consumed their enemies in order to gain their powers.

We all have an innate sense that some food is inherently heavy while other food is light. This goes beyond how it feels in our stomachs, for plant foods are directly synthesized from sunlight. The further we move from this process, the lower in vibration food gets. Thus freshly picked fruits, vegetables and nuts are generally high in vibration, while meat from animals is lower. The closer food is to a living state, the higher its vibration, so it may surprise a lot of vegetarians to know that bread, pasta, and other processed foods are typically of a vibration lower than meat.

If you are longing to leave this world or want to sit in meditation all day in search of nirvana, it would make sense to eat only small amounts of the highest vibration food you can find, the point being to minimize your interaction with the physical planet. Here you turn entirely within and the physical world is ignored. Of course, this is not a lifestyle that promotes physical health and well-being; it is instead devoted to transcending this realm.

None of this is as simple as a mathematical equation, of course, for much depends on the mental, emotional and spiritual energy that surrounds all we do. If the animals we eat are treated inhumanely; if we eat without gratitude or respect for the beings that are feeding us; if we are full of negative emotions when we are eating, then even the sweetest fruits of the earth may not benefit us. By contrast, if the animals we eat are treated humanely; if we prepare our food with love and reverence; if our own vibration is high and aligned with well-being, then whatever we eat should nourish us well.

Many say that when animals are inhumanely treated and slaughtered, their bodies release hormones that are passed on to us, and we all know how powerful hormones can be. So both physically and metaphysically, when we eat an animal that lived with constant pain and anxiety and was terrified when it was slaughtered, we may ingest its fear, which would be a heavy anchor on our vibration. Though it sounds incredible, it's possible that plants have a similar but subtler reaction when we pick them. (For a fascinating read, I recommend one of my favorite books of all time, The Secret Life of Plants.)

Since we must eat other beings in order to survive, the degree to which our choices affect us depends on how well we listen to our conscience and our bodies regarding what we eat. The more we infuse all we do with respect and reverence for life, the higher our vibration and the higher our course of experience. No doubt this is one reason why so many religions teach us to pray over our food, to give thanks for it and bless it that it may nourish us well.

Of course, eating high vibration food does encourage a high vibration. That doesn't mean that we can't set our own tone and have a high vibration while eating low vibration foods; it just means that it will take more conscious effort and energy to overcome the low vibrations we ingest. This is also true of all influences, of course: if we surround ourselves with spiritual people and peaceful circumstances, we will naturally grow more spiritual and peaceful. This doesn't mean we can't be spiritual and peaceful in chaotic, disharmonious situations, but doing so will take more conscious effort on our part.

In summary, while eating whole, fresh plant foods encourages a high vibration, good health also supports a high vibration, so we are wise to listen to our bodies and feed them accordingly. While meat has a lower vibration than fresh plant foods, we are still better off eating humanely raised and slaughtered meat than the processed, dead energy of refined carbohydrates that form the bulk of the modern diet.

Above all, we must listen to our inner knowing regarding all we do. Life is a personal, individual journey, so there is no one right answer for all people. There are certain habits and attitudes that tend to support and nourish us regardless of the individual choices we make. If we act with love, take good care of ourselves, and give thanks for all our blessings, we naturally align with a high vibration, personal power, and a high level of experience.

Julia

How humans are not physically created to eat meat

Although some historians and anthropologists say that man is historically omnivorous, our anatomical equipment ¬ teeth, jaws, and digestive system favors a fleshless diet. The American Dietetic Association notes that "most of mankind for most of human history has lived on vegetarian or near-vegetarian diets."

And much of the world still lives that way. Even on most industrialized countries, the love affair with meat is less than a hundred years old. It started with the refrigerator car and the twentieth-century consumer society. But even with the twentieth century, man's body hasn't adapted to eating meat. The prominent Swedish scientist Karl von Linne states, "Man's structure, external and internal, compared with that of the other animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his natural food." The chart below compares the anatomy of man with that of carnivorous and herbivorous animals.

When you look at the comparison between herbivores and humans, we compare much more closely to herbivores than meat eating animals. Humans are clearly not designed to digest and ingest meat.

Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws

Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores

Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding

Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.

Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater

Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits

Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Based on a chart by A.D. Andrews, Fit Food for Men, (Chicago: American Hygiene Society, 1970)


Clearly if humans were meant to eat meat we wouldn't have so many crucial ingestive/digestive similarities with animals that are herbivores.

Many people ask me, "If we weren't supposed to eat meat than why do we?". It is because we are conditioned to eat meat. Also, the ADA (American Dietetic Association) tells us that "most of mankind for most of human history has lived on a vegetarian or Lacto-ovo vegetarian diet."

A popular statement that meat eaters say is; "In the wild, animals kill other animals for food. It's a part of nature." First of all, we are not in the wild. Secondly, we can easily live without eating meat and killing. We all would be healthier this way. Finally, as I have already shown, we weren't meant to eat meat. Meat putrefies within 4 hours after consumption and the remnants cling to the walls of the intestines for 14-21 days. If a person is suffering from constipation the rotting meat can stay in the intestines for months or years. Furthermore, the saliva in humans is more alkaline, whereas in the case of flesh-eating or preying animals, it is clearly acidic. The alkaline saliva does not act properly on meat.

The final point I would like to make on how we as humans were not meant to eat meat is this; all omnivorous and carnivorous animals eat their meat raw. When a lion kills an herbivore for food, it tears right into the stomach area to eat the organs that are filled with blood (nutrients). While eating the stomach, liver, intestine, etc., the lion laps the blood in the process of eating the dead animal's flesh. Even bears that are omnivores eat salmon raw. However, eating raw bloody meat disgust us as humans. This is why we must cook it and season it to buffer the taste of the flesh.

If a deer is burned in a forest fire a carnivorous animal will NOT eat its flesh. Even circus lions have to be feed raw meat so that they will not starve to death. If humans were truly meant to eat meat then we would eat all of our meat raw and bloody. The thought of eating such meat makes one’s stomach turn. This is my point on how we as humans are conditioned to believe that animal flesh is good for us and that we were meant to consume it for survival and health purposes. If we are true carnivores or omnivores we would eat animal flesh raw and bloody. Cooking our meat and seasoning it with salt, ketchup, mayo, mustard or tabasco sauce disguise the awful taste of flesh. This is the only way we as humans would eat meat because we refuse to eat it raw and bloody like real carnivores.

Overall advantages of vegetarianism
You can reap a lot of benefits by being a vegetarian and people have become more aware of the health benefits of being a vegetarian. Animal rights issues is only one of the reasons why people decide to go on a vegetarian diet. People are beginning to care more about the environment. However, the main reason why most people go on vegetarian diet is due to the health benefits.

Meat is not good for you as it clogs your thinking. This is especially true if you eat red meat; white meat has less fat compared to red meat. Excessive intake of fats into your body can result in having a high level of cholesterol. If you think that not eating meat is going to make you look scrawny or unhealthy please think again. Just imagine that cows, goats, gorillas, elephants, rhinoceroses and so on are all vegetarians (herbivores) but look at how tough these animals are. They also have a longer life span compared to the carnivores (meat eating animals).

If you look at the chicken and vulture (carnivores), these animals eat just about everything and notice how unhealthy these animals look. The Chinese believe that the chi or life force in your body is less when you consume meat and so do the Indians with their ancient yogic principles [their life force was called prana].

The great Tai Chi masters of China were adept at preserving their chi. Even though some of the masters were not vegetarians they still had a balanced diet. It has now been scientifically proven that a balanced vegetarian diet is better compared to a diet that is taken with meat.

There are a lot of misconceptions about being a vegetarian; protein is one of the main topics of debate as a lot of people think that you can only get protein from meat. Vegetarians get a lot of protein when they eat a variety of fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes. What vegetarians don't get is the excess protein of the traditional American diet. This type of diet leads to liver toxicity, kidney overload and mineral deficiency diseases.

A lot of people also think that a vegetarian diet is not a balanced diet. Vegetarian diets have a proportion of three macro nutrients which are complex carbohydrates, protein and fat. Vegetarian food sources (plants) tend to be higher sources of most micro nutrients. Another myth that needs to be clarified is the so-called lack of calcium among vegetarians. Many vegetables especially green leafy ones have a good supply of calcium. The truth is that vegetarians suffer less from osteoporosis (a deficiency of calcium that leads to weak bones).

It is not my intention to force people to become vegetarians. However, vegetarianism is my answer to complete health and wellness. The three issues to consider in regard to vegetarianism are: spiritual, mental and physical (nutritional).

The spiritually aspiring person attempts to work on his/her self. The purpose of spiritual growth is to move away from the animal nature into the more human nature that God intended for us to have. Meat eating inhibits this. The same science that attempts to ignore the existence of a force higher than man also proved that aggression levels are much higher in meat eaters than non-meat eaters! The animal instincts become more powerful every time you eat meat. Another spiritual aspect of being a meat eater is when one must question the necessity and method of killing animals. However, everyone has their own morals to which they must determine for themselves. It is not the purpose of my dissertation to force a specific moral behavior on anyone. Most spiritual people believe in auras. Kirilian photography shows us that a force field still remains around dead or amputated flesh. You adopt that animal aura when you eat it's dead flesh. Fruits and vegetables have a higher vibration al aura than animal products.

“You are what you eat”, is a slogan that I love to use to show the mental aspect of vegetarianism. When animals are slaughtered, fear and aggression enzymes are shot into their muscle tissue. They remain in the meat until the consumer ingests the flesh and adapts the same emotions. Fruits and vegetables do not have emotions; therefore, when they are picked they do not release any emotional cells prior to digestion. The enzymes within fruits and vegetables supply the body with sufficient nutrients that will always uphold a healthy state of mind.

Fruits and vegetables are high in nutrients; the very thing the body needs to live a long disease and pain free life. The same cannot be said for meat. Nutritionally, the alkaline-based digestive system of humans will not properly break down substantial acid substances of meat.

Colon cancer is rampant! This is caused by the slow evacuation and putrefaction of meat in the colon. Lifelong vegetarians never suffer from such an illness. Many meat eaters believe that meat is the sole source of protein. However, the quality of this protein is so poor that little of it can ever be utilized by humans. This is due to its incomplete combination of amino acids [the building blocks of protein]. Studies show that the average American gets five times the amount of protein needed. It is a common medical fact that excess protein is dangerous. The prime danger of excess meat consumption is uric acid (the waste product produced in the process of digesting protein). Uric acid attacks the kidneys and breaks down the kidney cells called nephrons. This condition is called nephritis; the prime cause of it is overburdening the kidneys. More usable protein is found in one tablespoon of tofu or soybeans than the average serving of meat!

Have you ever seen what happens to a piece of meat that stays in the sun for three days? Meat can stay in the warmth of the intestine for at least four to five days until it is digested. It does nothing but wait for passage. Often, it usually stays there for much longer. Medical doctors have found traces of undigested meat remaining in the colon for up to several months. Colonic therapists always see meat passing through people who have been vegetarians for several years, thus indicating that meat remains undigested there for a long time. Occasionally this has been documented in twenty-year vegetarians!

Some vegetarians claim they are more satisfied after they eat. The reason for this is that there are fewer ketones (protein-digestive substances) formed when vegetable protein is digested. For many, ketones cause a trace amount of nausea which one normally interprets as a decreased desire for food due to this uncomfortable and slight degree of queasiness. Although the body calls for more food, the taste buds tolerate less. This is the danger of the popular high-protein diet substances on the market. This abnormally high level of ketones is called ketosis and refers to the state of starvation that the body incurs due to the inability of the appetite to call for nutrition. Most Americans who eat the wrong type of carbohydrates never recognize the high amount of complex carbohydrates required to overthrow this condition. Keep in mind that when the blood ketone level are too high it results in abnormally acidic blood called acidosis.

Tigers or lions who eat meat have an acid-based digestive systems. Our Hydrochloric Acid isn’t strong enough to fully digest meat. Also, their intestines measures about five feet long, not twisted and turned, layer over layer, compacted into a small area like the human intestine [which is twenty feet long].

Meats are frozen for a long period of times. Some meats (especially poultry) are frozen up to two years. Cold temperatures do not kill all species of bacteria. Worse than this, as it is shipped and stored, most frozen meat is thawed and refrozen many times. This is almost unavoidable.

Meat eaters suffer more frequently from various types of food poisoning than vegetarian. Statistics show that every American has had food poisoning at least once. When you've felt ill, had diarrhea or were just a little sick to your stomach, no doubt you had not the slightest idea that you had been poisoned by scavengers living off the dead carcass you just ate.

Meat is costly and it is the most wasteful source of resources. When one removes meat from his or her diet a whole new world of eating opens up. Cooking and preparing vegetarian style is no more time consuming than cooking meat. It costs less than half as much to eat vegetarian as it does to eat meat. There are excellent, nutritious, and easy to prepare vegetarian dishes that are Italian, Chinese, Indian, Mid-Eastern, French, Spanish, etc.

Additionally, one can enjoy many other foods that he or she has never tasted because of the meat craze. Most consumers have eaten no more than five or six varieties of beans and legumes. This is less than 10% of what is available.

In my opinion, there are far more benefits to becoming a vegetarian then there are staying a meat eater. Due to the fact that I was raised on meat, I have experienced both worlds. As a meat eater I was constantly sick, tired, and overweight. As a vegetarian, I am healthy, full of energy and maintaining a perfect weight. I love being a vegetarian and it shows. Because I wish the best for myself, it’s just second nature to want the best for others. From my past experience and research, going vegetarian is the best thing anyone can do for their mind, body and spirit.
Last edited by domathy; 25-09-2011 at 03:00 AM./QUOTE]

[plam]

That post of indolering is so full of false claims that it's pointless to go through it one by one. Here's just one

Originally Posted by indolering

Colon cancer is rampant! This is caused by the slow evacuation and putrefaction of meat in the colon. Lifelong vegetarians never suffer from such an illness.

Cancer incidence in vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford)

Conclusions: The overall cancer incidence rates of both the vegetarians and the nonvegetarians in this study are low compared with national rates. Within the study, the incidence of all cancers combined was lower among vegetarians than among meat eaters, but the incidence of colorectal cancer was higher in vegetarians than in meat eaters.

[indolering]

Originally Posted by plam

That post of indolering is so full of false claims that it's pointless to go through it one by one. Here's just one



Cancer incidence in vegetarians: results from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC-Oxford)

Conclusions: The overall cancer incidence rates of both the vegetarians and the nonvegetarians in this study are low compared with national rates. Within the study, the incidence of all cancers combined was lower among vegetarians than among meat eaters, but the incidence of colorectal cancer was higher in vegetarians than in meat eaters.

I'm not going to examine your study - perhaps it's accurate or maybe it's not really representative of the general meat-eating populations.

I stand by most everything domathy posted. Cancer is a recent disease among humans and corresponds closely with the sudden increase in meat consumption. It's a fact that meats are far more prone to the growth and spread of harmful bacteria, etc. than are plants.

p.s. quote: That post of indolering is so full of false claims that it's pointless to go through it one by one

Yes, let's not go through that long post one by one...I don't have the stomach for it.

[plam]

Originally Posted by indolering

I'm not going to examine your study - perhaps it's accurate or maybe it's not really representative of the general meat-eating populations.

The study is in fact quite representative

This was a prospective study of 63,550 men and women recruited throughout the United Kingdom in the 1990s. Cancer incidence was followed through nationwide cancer registries.

Originally Posted by indolering

Yes, let's not go through that long post one by one...I don't have the stomach for it.

Change your diet!

[henrynorth]

Has anyone here looked at the Weston A Price foundation? and his brilliant book

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration?

[mtex]

Originally Posted by zarah

So I'm now vegan

And thus, you count yourself amongst these people:

[wingedwolfpsion]

Cancer is a recent disease because people did not generally live past age 40, and cancers usually develop in people who are over 40.

That huge long post was indeed full of a lot of garbage and misinformation.

My favorite was the part that tries to compare 'meat eaters' to 'herbivores' and humans.
It does no such thing, of course, it's actually comparing different Orders of animals to one another.
For example, Carnivora--they do have claws, it's true. And cows do not. Humans have fingernails...this is a trait that they have in common with other PRIMATES...most of which are OMNIVORES, not herbivores, and a few of which are insectivorous (insects are not vegetables).
You know what else doesn't have claws? Pigs.
You know what else DOES have claws? Sloths.

As for Darwin...he was mostly right, there were a few details that we now know he didn't quite get, but that's to be expected.
If you cannot perceive the wonder in the Universe AS IT IS, I feel most sorry for you. There is nothing depressing about the world, and nothing wrong with competition. The world is beautiful. Every part of it.

Religions that focus on the afterlife are invariably the ones that make life HERE hell for other people. I have no real respect for them.

You know what 'Darwinists' have never done? Tortured and killed other people for the 'crime' of not sharing their beliefs. They have also never tried to tell you that you cannot be a vegan. They've only told you it's kind of dumb.

As a trained, experienced psion (psychic) of over 20 years, the idea that not eating meat aids psychic development is bullcrap. All but one of the best psis I know eat meat--one is a vegetarian (not a vegan).

You will probably say that this is different from 'spiritual enlightenment', and I would largely agree, but 'spiritual enlightenment' is a subjective thing, and for you claim you have it, and those who eat meat do not, is the purest proof that you don't have it at all.

[henrynorth]

If we were meant to eat leaves etc we would have the digestive system of a gorilla with a long caecum to ferment those leaves into fatty acids, much like the four stomachs of a ruminant. ( this is incidentally why cows fall ill on grain based foods because they ferment it into alcohol, rather than essential fatty acids of the Omega 3 variety)

We have a carnivores digestive system, We only started farming 10000 years ago. Before that we were all hunter gatherers. Anyone who didn't eat meat back then probably died in infancy.

Some meat is raised in awful conditions and is not worth eating, but happy grass fed meat that has been slaughtered humanely is one of the best foods you can eat, because it is chock full of good fats.

The one mistake that most vegans do is not to take enough fats/ collagen proteins as part of their diet leading to them having dry and brittle bones, nails etc

Collagen needs Gelatine Gelatine is one of the best sources of hydroxyproline and lysine. You want to avoid looking wrinkly eat gelatin at least once a week.

[plam]

Originally Posted by henrynorth

If we were meant to eat leaves etc we would have the digestive system of a gorilla with a long caecum to ferment those leaves into fatty acids, much like the four stomachs of a ruminant. ( this is incidentally why cows fall ill on grain based foods because they ferment it into alcohol, rather than essential fatty acids of the Omega 3 variety)

We have a carnivores digestive system, We only started farming 10000 years ago. Before that we were all hunter gatherers. Anyone who didn't eat meat back then probably died in infancy.

Some meat is raised in awful conditions and is not worth eating, but happy grass fed meat that has been slaughtered humanely is one of the best foods you can eat, because it is chock full of good fats.

The one mistake that most vegans do is not to take enough fats/ collagen proteins as part of their diet leading to them having dry and brittle bones, nails etc

Collagen needs Gelatine Gelatine is one of the best sources of hydroxyproline and lysine. You want to avoid looking wrinkly eat gelatin at least once a week.

Sush, don't tell the secret about gelatin! Vegans will hate you for that.