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Old 28-04-2009, 02:48 PM   #181
truthseekeruk
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Originally Posted by hagbard_celine View Post
You too.

I totally agree with your reasons why, but I would hesitiate to put my name on that list. If you reject help from any military service at all then you cannot be saved by the RAF Air-Sea Rescue if your ships sinks at sea. Also if the forces are called in to aid Mountain Rescue, RNLI, local hospitals, ambulance crews and fire brigades, as they often are, then they'll turn away from you. The forces also rescue non-combatant nationals from danger in war zones. Although I'm a Freeman and a Citizen of the World and don't believe British people should be given priority over people from different "countries": these fake and artifical divisions of the Earth's surface, I'd still swallow my pride and gratefully accept a chopper ride out of a besieged embassy if push came to shove.

This statement came about as a response to another post. But I wanted to make my sentiments clear as to the level of distrust I feel towards the powers that be, not towards the average serviceman. Why should I expect to be rescued and my welfare come before another citizen of this earth, as I believe we are all a part of each other and therefore equal? For me this isnt about pride but of not allowing the fear of physical death as a reason to sell out my convictions for temporary physical safety. By accepting help it would place me directly under the control of those I distrust most. We are eternal spiritual beings living a physical existence. I agree with you about the artificial borders that were created to separate men leading to a false sense of nationality. Please view the video below that sums up my sentiments on the whole war in Iraq/Afghanistan and the lies that started it all. This video should be shown to anyone who is thinking of joining the armed forces, and features a great UB40 song, lyrics "Im a British subject and I'm proud of it, though I carry the burden of shame".


Quote:
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."


"The pioneers of a warless world are the young men (and women) who refuse
military service."


"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my
contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the
spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be
done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the
loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate
all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to
shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing
under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

- Albert Einstein

Last edited by truthseekeruk; 28-04-2009 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 29-04-2009, 12:42 PM   #182
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Personally I am against these conflicts as they did not seem to be anything to do with the UK at first and I am sure we got dragged in to save face for the US, to give the impression they are not going it alone. Even at work I have occasionally given my own opinion although that can be a bit risky. I once told an ex-CO that it was an oil war. Lucky for me it was an informal chat otherwise I might have got my ear chewed.

Marpat may I ask then why you stay in the forces if you disagree with the conflict? Doesnt it bother you that this country and the USA invaded Iraq for fictional reasons and yet in Africa people like Mugabi kill thousands of their own people. Why arent 'we' out there protecting them and getting rid of him? I think we all know the answer to that one - I am sure that if Magabi had oil reserves you would find yourself out in Africa in an instant.

I dont view you guys as heroes to be honest - you are doing the job you willingly choose to do and get paid for, end of story. I do however respect your bravery.

I am genuinely interested - not having a go.

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Old 29-04-2009, 02:54 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by truthseekeruk View Post
This statement came about as a response to another post. But I wanted to make my sentiments clear as to the level of distrust I feel towards the powers that be, not towards the average serviceman. Why should I expect to be rescued and my welfare come before another citizen of this earth, as I believe we are all a part of each other and therefore equal? For me this isnt about pride but of not allowing the fear of physical death as a reason to sell out my convictions for temporary physical safety. By accepting help it would place me directly under the control of those I distrust most. We are eternal spiritual beings living a physical existence. I agree with you about the artificial borders that were created to separate men leading to a false sense of nationality. Please view the video below that sums up my sentiments on the whole war in Iraq/Afghanistan and the lies that started it all. This video should be shown to anyone who is thinking of joining the armed forces, and features a great UB40 song, lyrics "Im a British subject and I'm proud of it, though I carry the burden of shame".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70ONd...&feature=email

Yes, brilliant vid! I like the scene where the little boy is playing with toy soldiers and he morphs into Bush. That's pretty much Bush's attitude I think!

In principle you are totally correct. In fact I think it may merely be an academic problem for me since I am no longer a British subject. But it's not just the armed forces who kill and maim people. Big Pharama does too; and it kills and mains in far greater numbers. Nevertheless even knwoing this, you would surely accept the help of a paramedic crew if you were involved in an accident; you'd be happy to be admitted to A&E, be seen by a doctor, be operated on in the trauma theatre? To answer "yes" to that question doesn't make you a supporter of Big Pharma, and in the same way, to accept the service of military operations in your time of need doesn't make you a supporter of the War on Terror.

I love these quotes by Einstein. He's absolutely hit the nail on the head:

Quote:
"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."


"The pioneers of a warless world are the young men (and women) who refuse
military service."


"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my
contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the
spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be
done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the
loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate
all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to
shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing
under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

- Albert Einstein
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Old 30-04-2009, 08:36 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by nightwalker View Post
Marpat may I ask then why you stay in the forces if you disagree with the conflict? Doesnt it bother you that this country and the USA invaded Iraq for fictional reasons and yet in Africa people like Mugabe kill thousands of their own people. Why arent 'we' out there protecting them and getting rid of him? I think we all know the answer to that one - I am sure that if Mugabe had oil reserves you would find yourself out in Africa in an instant.

I dont view you guys as heroes to be honest - you are doing the job you willingly choose to do and get paid for, end of story. I do however respect your bravery.

I am genuinely interested - not having a go.
Yes we all know the answer to that 1
Ever thought that a white faced army of occupation ( I think that would be the term used) would come to the rescue of white Africans( settlers,farmers) even though they would be helping the whole of the population!!

I can c it now , how does the song go free Robert Mugabe, sit ins around the zimbabwean embassy, apartheid rears its ugly head again.

But then again you could b right
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Old 30-04-2009, 08:55 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by hagbard_celine View Post
You too.

I totally agree with your reasons why, but I would hesitiate to put my name on that list. If you reject help from any military service at all then you cannot be saved by the RAF Air-Sea Rescue if your ships sinks at sea. Also if the forces are called in to aid Mountain Rescue, RNLI, local hospitals, ambulance crews and fire brigades, as they often are, then they'll turn away from you. The forces also rescue non-combatant nationals from danger in war zones. Although I'm a Freeman and a Citizen of the World and don't believe British people should be given priority over people from different "countries": these fake and artifical divisions of the Earth's surface, I'd still swallow my pride and gratefully accept a chopper ride out of a besieged embassy if push came to shove.
You fight your corner well hagbard You are honest enuff to say you wouldn't refuse a ride on a chopper if in trouble . You are quite reasonable and Ill let you buy me a few pints at the ave bury meet up and if you buy me enuff m8 I mite even tell you a few terrorist stories ( do they exist )
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:03 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by nightwalker View Post
Marpat may I ask then why you stay in the forces if you disagree with the conflict? Doesnt it bother you that this country and the USA invaded Iraq for fictional reasons and yet in Africa people like Mugabi kill thousands of their own people. Why arent 'we' out there protecting them and getting rid of him? I think we all know the answer to that one - I am sure that if Magabi had oil reserves you would find yourself out in Africa in an instant.

I dont view you guys as heroes to be honest - you are doing the job you willingly choose to do and get paid for, end of story. I do however respect your bravery.

I am genuinely interested - not having a go.

We could ask such question to many people in here. We could ask Hagbard why he works in a hospital when he is against big pharma. We could ask why people work at all when their taxes fund these wars.

To be honest I couldnt give a fuck if people class us as heroes or not. Some people might have a problem with people not caring but I dont. I am not a front line bod anyway so I dont suffer the same sort of problems other people encounter.

There are many countries with problems but you cant go everywhere at once. If we went to Africa people in here would say its a conspiracy to take control of Africa. We stay out and people then think that is wrong and wonder why we are not there. There could be many reasons why we are not there, one of them being a extreme shortage of manpower. Also, can you imagine the extra cost to the tax payer to carry out such missions?

I honestly think we went to Iraq to save the face of America otherwise it would look like a US crusade but maybe Im wrong.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:42 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by entrangermercenary View Post
You fight your corner well hagbard You are honest enuff to say you wouldn't refuse a ride on a chopper if in trouble . You are quite reasonable and Ill let you buy me a few pints at the ave bury meet up and if you buy me enuff m8 I mite even tell you a few terrorist stories ( do they exist )
Cool, I'll look forward to that, EM. I could tell you a few stories myself, but how frank I am will depend on how many pints you buy me!
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Old 24-05-2009, 09:55 AM   #188
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Cool afghan poppys or bucks,

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...
Actually I completely agree that some of the protesters’ slogans and banners were reprehensible. It is unfair to brand a complete stranger as a “baby-killer” just because they’re in the Army, These men and women have just returned from a long deployment during which the majority will have committed no harm at all, at least not compared to anyone else. ...

But the truth is: war crimes involving British troops have taken place. These protesters have a legitimate gripe, if only they’d pursue their gripe in a more productive way, not giving so much smearing ammunition to their opponents.

What disturbs me most about this article is that it never even considers that the allegations made by the protesters could be true. The whole idea is beyond the acceptability of the author’s paradigm. This is what I mean I talk about how respect for the military has become its own brand of fanaticism, a kind of religion.
they are mercs or contractors (low paid end) in the war for pipelines and oil.
they deserve some pay and afghan poppys where they lucked out.

good article commentary there.
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Old 24-05-2009, 01:29 PM   #189
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i love the fact being a soldier is no-more glamorised, they are disgusting.
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Old 24-05-2009, 06:17 PM   #190
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they are mercs or contractors (low paid end) in the war for pipelines and oil.
they deserve some pay and afghan poppys where they lucked out.

good article commentary there.

Cheers, mate. Yes, see todays headlines about Blackwater.

(Is that a rescue submarine in your av?)
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Old 24-05-2009, 08:55 PM   #191
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I find it unlikely that these protesters are all tax-rebels; therefore they are hypocrites.
No you're wrong. Being a tax rebel is impossible in this country, and only results in more taxes being paid, because the penalty for not paying tax is to pay more tax.

As you say, they may have a valid point, but the protest is aimed at the government and not the individual soldiers and should be seen as such.
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Old 28-05-2009, 09:11 AM   #192
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As you say, they may have a valid point, but the protest is aimed at the government and not the individual soldiers and should be seen as such.
ANGLIAN SOLDIERS- GO TO HELL

BUTCHERS OF BASRA


Sounds like an attack on individuals to me!

Quote:
No you're wrong. Being a tax rebel is impossible in this country, and only results in more taxes being paid, because the penalty for not paying tax is to pay more tax.
This is a paradoxical statement. How can I be wrong and at the same time agree that they could not be tax rebels?
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Old 28-05-2009, 11:29 PM   #193
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[B]This is a paradoxical statement. How can I be wrong and at the same time agree that they could not be tax rebels?
You're wrong about them being hypocrites for not being tax rebels. Tax rebellion is effectively impossible. Even Christ paid the tax to the Pharisees, yet still protested their deeds.
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:47 PM   #194
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You're wrong about them being hypocrites for not being tax rebels. Tax rebellion is effectively impossible. Even Christ paid the tax to the Pharisees, yet still protested their deeds.
No, I agreed with you there.

They're hypocrites for condemning the soldiers when they themselves play a part in the war themselves.
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:57 PM   #195
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i love the fact being a soldier is no-more glamorised, they are disgusting.
They deserve compassion and dignity, unless they have been individualy guilty of making warfare even worse than it needs to be.
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Old 08-06-2009, 06:05 PM   #196
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i love the fact being a soldier is no-more glamorised, they are disgusting.
BTW, as a sufferer of multiple personality disorder, I found that some of my dreams involve commiting atrocities as a child soldier whilst I was in a kind of a trance.

Are you saying this would be a bit of a 'deal breaker' in a 'sex in the city' episode?
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