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Old 04-02-2013, 07:53 AM   #1
wwu777
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Default Why would anyone join the military and get killed?

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service." - Albert Einstein

Why would anyone join the military and get killed in a war?

I have a vehement question that I don't get. Why would anyone be dumb enough to join the military and go to war, where one has EVERYTHING to lose and NOTHING to gain? Technically, it's akin to committing suicide for no valid reason, especially since American involvement in wars usually have nothing to do with "serving your country" or "defending freedom".

I'm surprised they got anyone to serve in the Iraq War. What if no one agreed to go? Why would anyone go in the first place against all reason and common sense, as well as against their own survival instinct?

Who would risk their life and limb for a war they have nothing to gain from and everything to lose? Technically, it's no different than committing suicide. Further, there are no logical reasons to serve in a war, while there are many logical reasons not to, which I will elaborate on below.

Anti-war sentiment has been mainstream in America for a long time. Back in the 80's, blockbuster movies like "Born on the Fourth of July" with Tom Cruise and "Full Metal Jacket" by Oliver Stone, eloquently portrayed the true horrors of war as unjust and deceitful, without glory or honor.

So even back in the 80's, the American people already knew the truth about the horrors of war, and how there was nothing glorious in it, and how the government deceived young people into the military. The Vietnam War was a prime example, which was ingrained into the minds of the American people.

So how could anyone agree to serve in the Iraq War in 2003? Did they forget all those Oliver Stone films made long ago? Did they forget about the movie "Saving Private Ryan" which should have discouraged anyone from joining the military? Haven't all the poor youngsters who joined the military seen those films? Did they forget about the lessons learned from the Vietnam War?

How could they forget the Vietnam War, which has been etched into American history as a unnecessary tragedy and mistake that cost 60,000 American lives? Isn't that supposed to be common knowledge to Americans? If so, how could the troops in Iraq have forgotten all about it, since it was such an important lesson in history, and agreed to serve in another Vietnam War? It boggles the mind.

By now, everyone knows that the government lies a lot and starts unnecessary wars for profit, or some other nefarious reason (such as an Illuminati sacrifice ritual?). Even movies have taught us that. And conspiracies are all over the internet, in movies and pop culture. People get paranoid easily too. Government distrust is already part of the mainstream culture. So why are there still people who believe everything the government tells them, as if it were some bastion of truth? There is no basis to believe that authority=truth.

Besides, don't all living things have a natural survival instinct? Why would the troops serving in the war override their survival instinct by risking their lives in someone else's war? Why doesn't their survival instinct prevent them from serving in the war? If no one agreed to serve in a war, then the war would never exist. Simple as that, you'd think?

And why are more women serving in the armed forces nowadays? Women hate war the most. They don't even like watching war movies. Have you ever met a woman who was a fan of war movies? I've never met even one. Women are nurturers by instinct, not warriors. They are inclined toward social cohesion, not division. So this is very odd and inexplicable.

What's even more odd is why anyone would actually volunteer to serve in a war? For example, why did NFL star Pat Tillman feel the need to volunteer for the Iraq War so that he could get killed? That was a foolish suicidal move with no basis in logic, like a plothole in a movie. Why did Tillman's football coach describe him as an "intellectual athlete"? Would an intellectual volunteer for a war that anyone could see was a sham from the start? Before the Iraq War, no one wanted it and no one supported it, except the controlled corporate media, who were probably just pretending anyway, because it was their job to.

If you add it all up logically, by joining the military and being sent to war, you have EVERYTHING to lose and NOTHING to gain. The long list of negatives and drawbacks far outweighs any benefits. Thus the decision to serve in a war is totally illogical, foolish and suicidal. Consider the following list of reasons not to join the military or fight in a war:

20 Reasons why joining the military is foolish, suicidal and illogical

Note: If you know anyone planning to join the military or currently serving in it, please forward this list to them.

1. The troops serving in Iraq must all know that they are risking their life and limb for corporate profits, not for freedom, democracy or protection of their country, right? They can't be that dumb. As David Icke said, "When you join the military you are not serving your country. You are serving an evil cabal that wants to enslave you."

So why would they agree to give up their life and limb to serve greedy corrupt corporations? No sane person would do that. Especially since the elites and politicians that sent them to war refuse to send their own sons to fight in it. Don't the troops care about this hypocrisy?

2. Those serving in the war risk losing their body parts or incurring permanent injuries, which would disable them for life and bar them from love, dating, relationships and romance with the opposite sex. They could never get a girlfriend or wife if they became disabled, since women will not love a disabled man. (like Tom Cruise's character in the movie "Born on the Fourth of July") This means that they will become miserable and depressed for the rest of their lives.

3. If the troops who are married, died or became disabled, their spouses and parents would suffer greatly, as well as any children. Why would you want to do that to your mom, who birthed you and fed you and raised you, just so you can be killed in an unnecessary war started by greedy sociopaths with no conscience? WTF?! Wouldn't that be a horrible thing to do to your mom? Do you even care about your mom or love her? Geez.

4. The troops have nothing to gain in a war, and everything to lose. The best they can hope for is to come back in one piece. Thus there is no logical incentive. They are not going to get a share of the billions in oil profits that the Bush family is getting. Don't they know that?

5. Troops often come back with post traumatic stress syndrome, which psychologically haunts them for years, or for life. Why would anyone want that? Many veterans even commit suicide because they can't deal with it. (like Tommy Lee Jones' character did in the movie "Heaven and Earth" by Oliver Stone)

6. In the military, you lose every freedom you have ever known. This starts right from boot camp, where you are treated like property, not like a human being, while you are turned into a killing machine. It's very degrading. (see the boot camp section at the beginning of the movie "Full Metal Jacket")

Why would anyone like that? Why would anyone want to become an expendable pawn? Especially when you know you are giving up your life and freedom for sociopaths who only care about power and conquest, not you.

7. In combat, you may end up killing innocent people, including women and children (as US troops did in Vietnam). Or you may even kill fellow troops in friendly fire. This would haunt you and leave you with guilt for the rest of your life. Why would you want that?

8. The pay in the military is not that great unless you are an officer. You don't get a pension unless you served for many years or you were injured in combat.

9. Veterans are usually treated like shit by the government, who no longer finds them useful. So they have to struggle to get benefits. Why would you want to serve a government who uses and dumps its own like that? It doesn't make any sense!

10. The food in the military reportedly sucks.

11. Boot camp training is strenuous, exhausting and painful.

12. Troops have to spend long indeterminate lengths of time away from their families, all of which is out of their control. They also have no control over where they are deployed.

13. Joining the military or fighting in a war is NOT "serving" your country or the people of your country. Nor is it "protecting or defending freedom". That is a cliche which if you think about, has ZERO basis to support it. So why do all the people in the armed forces believe in it? It's very odd and is a sad testament to how gullible people are to believe in the most baseless things. Has the military pulled off some kind of miraculous mind control trick? Why would so many believe something for no reason other than that they were told it?

Think about it. How does you dying in a war help any of the common people back home? It doesn't. The common people's freedoms have nothing to do with a war foreign country. In fact, most people's freedom has nothing to do with any government. Governments don't really have much power over you except to use scare tactics on you and mind control you through your TV. A government cannot terrorize you with a standing army directly because it does not have enough troops to push everyone around. As long as you don't break any laws, the government won't even bother with you. It has better things to do.

In reality, one's personal freedom is far more directly affected by one's daily obligations to their work, family, employer and bills. All these things directly affect your everyday routine and personal life, far more than any government does. Even your employer has far more control over your "freedom" than the government does, and you are free to quit working for your employer if you want.

Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way. Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom. Besides, isn't it ironic that the military claims to be defending freedom yet there is no freedom within the military itself?

I've never understood why those serving in a war claim that war protesters are being unappreciative of them for defending their freedoms? This is not only bad logic, but false as well, since fighting in wars based on deception to serve elite/industrial nefarious interests has NOTHING to do at all with protecting the freedoms of the American people. It has ZERO relevance. How can people be that stupid? It's very sad and speaks badly about human intelligence.

What does it mean to "serve your country" anyway? A "country" is a social and political construct that doesn't really exist. So how can you "serve" something that doesn't exist? This concept seems like a mind control technique designed to brainwash people into doing whatever they are told by their rulers for the "love of their country". Otherwise, it has no logical basis in reality.

In this context, the idea of "patriotism" makes no sense either, since there is no "country" to be patriotic for - no "country" to love, serve and die for - since a country doesn't truly exist except as a sociological/political construct.

Here are quotes from what great thinkers, writers and intellectuals have said about the folly and danger of "patriotism":

“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.”
- George Bernard Shaw

“Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.”
- Bertrand Russell

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”
- Oscar Wilde

“Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him?”
- Blaise Pascal

“Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, and conscience, and a slavish enthralment to those in power.”
- Leo Tolstoy

"In war, truth is the first casualty"
- Aeschylus

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service."
- Albert Einstein

Likewise, the concept of "doing your duty" by serving in the military when drafted into a war (like the draft in Vietnam) has no logical basis either since the US Constitution says that we are free and that government has no right to force people into a war against their will.

Moreover, wars are started elites and their cabals for nefarious purposes that have nothing to do with justice or freedom. So obviously, you participating in that is not "serving" the common people at all. How do the American people benefit from the rich getting richer? Trickle down economics of the 80's proved to be a sham.

In addition, most wars the US has been involved in have had nothing to do with defending the security or freedoms of the American people. In fact, they have been based on lies and deception.

Finally, the elites that start wars were not even elected by the American people. They were placed there by their secret societies and fraternal orders (Freemasons, Skull and Bones, Illuminati, etc) to serve the agenda of that secret order, not that of the American people. Every researcher and thinker knows that by now. There is no "government by the people" in America. That is a myth that has no basis in reality. People have no real say in their government. There is no democracy and voting does not affect policy. The illusion of democracy has proven to be a sham again and again. Every example in history demonstrates this. How many examples have to occur before the American people realize it?

In fact, a true democracy cannot even work because most people are not wise or rational, but are foolish and easily misled. Mobs are not rational or wise, and therefore mob rule is not a good thing. Intellectuals throughout history, including our Founding Fathers, knew that and wrote about it. Plus, truth is not determined by the majority, but by evidence, logic and reason. So shouldn't evidence-based logic and reason rule a society, rather than the majority?

Even George Washington in his letters said that the Freemasons (which he was a member of) were working to DIVIDE the government from its people so that the people had no real say (only the illusion of it), while the Freemason order ran things in secret. Therefore, if you are serving the interests of elites who were selected by secret fraternal orders rather than the American people, then technically, that is NOT serving your country or its people.

Before leaving office, President Eisenhower warned America in a public speech about the military industrial complex and its corrupt aims for domination, power and control. Obviously, serving a corrupt military industrial complex has nothing to do with serving the American people.

In summary, joining the military is NOT "serving your country" because:

a) A "country" does not really exist. It is a social and political construct artificially created by society and culture.
b) Serving in a war started for profit, conquest and other nefarious motives by the elites and their cabals is obviously not serving the common people of your country, who do not even benefit from it.
c) Most wars the US has been involved in have nothing to do with defending the freedom or security of the American people. Instead, they have been built on lies and deception. This is nothing new.
d) The notion of patriotism is foolish, untrue, delusional and illogical, as evidenced by the quotes above.
e) A government cannot really take away your freedom. It can only scare you from afar through the media. No government has enough troops to push everyone around. Your freedoms are far more directly affected by your daily routine and obligations to work, family, employer and paying bills than by any government. Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way. Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom.
f) The elites that start wars for nefarious purposes were not even elected by the American people, but placed there by secret societies, fraternal orders, and their cabals (e.g. Freemasons, Skull and Bones, Illuminati). Therefore, serving them is not technically serving the American people at all, especially since there is no "government by the people" or true democracy in America.

14. There is no logical reason to serve in someone else's war that they themselves refuse to fight in. If Bush starts a war, then he should have to fight in it too, like Alexander the Great, who fought with his troops, did. There should be a law requiring those who start wars to fight in them. Such a law would essentially end wars. It's not fair or right for those who start wars to make other people die in them. Don't the troops know that? If so, why didn't they call Bush a hypocrite when he visited them for a pep talk? They should have jeered him, not cheered him.

15. Besides, anyone can see that Bush is a liar, demon and con artist. It's written all over his face. His facial features look demonic and evil. He looks like a total con artist and scumbag. Even a dog can see that. He does not even look serious, credible or honest at all. And he talks like a very bad stooge actor who can't even act. He looks like a total joke and insult to the American people, and is not even funny or comical.

No one would even buy a used car from a guy like him, let alone elect him as President. So why would the troops cheer him when he visited them in Iraq? Were they all acting? At least Hitler looked honest and serious, whereas Bush doesn't at all.

Why is it that when a President is much beloved, like Lincoln or Kennedy, they get assassinated. But when everyone hates a fake stooge President, like Bush, who is universally hated, he never gets assassinated? Isn't that so upside down? Shouldn't the collective will of the people have saved Kennedy or taken out Bush, according to the "thoughts create reality" principle of the Law of Attraction?

16. It doesn't make sense to kill people you have no quarrel with, just because their leader has a quarrel with yours. You should let them sort it out themselves, not use you for it. Who would want to be used to settle another's affairs? That's so stupid. It's not any of your business, so why make it your business? It doesn't make any damn sense! The people you kill in a war may be wonderful people that you would have been friends with, outside of the war.

17. America is an oligarchy or corporatocracy, not a democracy or a republic. It is a country ruled by an elite class who operate outside of public scrutiny. Everyone knows that. The American system is set up to benefit the top 1 percent of the elite, who essentially own the country.

That's why the government doesn't use tax dollars to provide national healthcare, like all the other industrialized countries do, so that no one has to go bankrupt from medical bills. Instead, the government prefers to use tax dollars to drop bombs on other countries.

Now is that a system that you really want to serve? Geez. How obvious can it get? And more to the point, why would anyone want to serve such a system?

18. If war is natural, honorable and good, then why do veterans commit suicide so often? Why won't any of the Congressmen send their sons to a war? Instead, they have to recruit boys from the poorest families who can't get jobs to go die in wars. But again, why would anyone agree to do that?

19. If you have an inclination to go out and kill or destroy things, why don't you just play video games or go hunting, or join a sport like boxing, wrestling or martial arts, to unleash your aggression? Why would you need to risk your life and limb in a senseless war serving corrupt people who lie to you? It doesn't make any sense.

20. Your government has a long history of lying and has lied to you many times. So why would you want to serve a liar or give up your life to serve a liar? For example, the US government lied in 1964 about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, because it needed a reason to start the Vietnam War. As a result of this lie and staged event, 60,000 Americans lost their lives unnecessarily. Why have you forgotten that? Yet no one was ever brought to justice for this lie that led to the deaths of so many people during the Vietnam War. Where is the justice in that? Instead, it was just treated as an "honest mistake".

What's odd is that if a friend lied to you about something important and serious, you would no longer trust that friend. Everyone knows that. So why then can the government repeatedly lie to you, yet you still consider it to be a bastion of truth? That doesn't make sense, and only testifies to the level of brainwashing you've received that "authority=truth" and your need to believe that government is a caring parent.

Conclusion

So you see, joining the military and serving in a war is 100 percent illogical, foolish and suicidal. In light of the 20 reasons above, I can't understand or fathom why anyone would join the military and get obligated into serving in a war. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Why would anyone do something that was 100 percent illogical and senseless, knowing that they are serving evil powers that don't care about them, and could come back dead or disabled? I can't fathom that.

Could this be why the US government wants to dumb down people and keep them stupid, or else no one would agree to serve in a war if they knew the truth and could think logically? Do people who join the military tend to have lower IQ's? (no offense intended) or do they just have no job prospects?

If any of you reading this have served in the military before, can you explain why you joined up in light of the reasons above? What were you thinking? Didn't any of the sensible reasons above cross your mind? How could you join something with so many logical reasons against it?

Also, if those currently active in the military read the list of reasons above, do you think they'd drop out?

Note: No disrespect or offense is intended to those who served in the military, but the truth is the truth isn't it? There is no logic in voluntarily dying to serve the interests of a corrupt greedy elite that do not care about you or the American people, all of which has NOTHING to do with "serving your country or people, or defending freedom".

Note: If you know anyone planning to join the military or is currently serving in it, please forward the above list to them. You can forward the link to them, or copy and paste the above to them.

"When you join the military you are not serving your country. You are serving an evil cabal that wants to enslave you." - David Icke

Last edited by wwu777; 04-02-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:34 AM   #2
wwu777
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For those of you who don't understand history, here is a great history lesson posted on Yahoo Answers:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6160718AAMyirc

"Resolved QuestionShow me another »

What did Aeschylus mean by "In war, truth is the first casualty"?

It's That Guy
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

In order to fight a war, to start a war, you have to lie. The aggressor usually says it's only defending itself. Wars of conquest are disguised as 'liberation', and invasion and occupation is usually characterized as being in the interest of the 'victims'. And those who disagree are silenced as unpatriotic or subversive.

This is true of the Roman Empire marching into one territory after another in Europe, and before that the Greeks. It's true of Hitler marching into Czechoslovakia and Poland at the start of WWII. It's been true in almost every war the US has been involved in. For instance, at the end of WWII 'The Department of War' was renamed 'The Department of Defense', even though we haven't fought a true defensive war since 1812-14.

In the first Gulf War, GHW Bush said that Saddam Hussein had plans to invade every other country in the Middle East and that US satellite photos showed Iraqi troops massed on the border of Saudi Arabia. That turned out to be a lie. They trotted out a Kuwaiti girl who told a tearful story of babies taken out of incubators in Kuwaiti hospitals, left on the floor to die so the Iraqis could steal the incubators. That was quickly shown to be a lie. Bush said he was restoring democracy in Kuwait but it had never actually been a democracy before and certainly wasn't afterwards.

In the current Gulf War, GW Bush lied about Saddam's nuclear intentions, his possession of enormous amounts of WMD, his plans and capability to attack the US and England, etc.etc. When one reason for invading Iraq was disproven and discredited, Bush would simply drop it and trot out another. There is a website somewhere that lists 20 of these reasons, ALL lies. He lied about our intention to 'liberate' Iraq and form a truly democratic government. These were just the lies told at the start of the war, in order to bring the American people along with the war. Then for six years he lied about our progress there, said we were constantly, steadily making progress. He lied about torture and rendition, about the cost of the war, etc. All in all he told more lies than he told the truth. And anyone who disagreed with him was smeared as anti-American.

This is nothing new, EVERY war begins this way."
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:08 AM   #3
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Money!!
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:14 AM   #4
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Some good points wwu777. I think apart from the ideologies of a just war, many younger people see joining as gaining a future, purpose, respect or in a funny way it's a search for family that looks after you.

Some are gun nuts in Gun heaven and a small few really are nuts. Some join out of spite for parents, though they probably don't get far. Many join to defend 'freedom' and good in the world whether misguided or not.

I don't think many join just to kill. People are attracted to what the military offers them, either mentally or physically. Few would join to die. Nobody thinks they will die. That's my thoughts on why people join.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:20 AM   #5
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Kids with limited opportunities who have been suckered into the macho bullshit and desensitised to the violence by game consoles.

During the Vietnam war the US military panicked because when it came to one on one kill situation a high percentage of the US soldiers wouldn't actually go through with it even if it jeopardised their own safety After being weaned on Call of duty, not a problem 95% kill rate.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:34 AM   #6
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a lot of these young people have no future in there home towns, high unemployment, poverty living standards etc, they see the military as a way out, at the recruiting offices your head is filled with bullshit like good pay and living conditions, foreign travel and exotic places, and excitment of using dangerous weapons etc! also the crap...its a career!.
at the basic training stages you are mentally and physically broken down, and re-built by the military so that you dont question orders, and have limited thinking abilities, and acheive a reasonable level of fitness.

at no time will they tell you about, block jobs(scrubbing toilets etc) area cleaning(picking up litter) or being abused by sadistic perverted nutters under the guise of discipline! they also wont tell you about having to pay for meals ,accomodation, local council tax, clothing.

being a complete mindless bell-end is encouraged and rewarded with promotion whilst further brainwashing with crap like , your doing an important job! and your saving lives/making a difference! no you are not!!.

unless you are defending this country from a hostile enemy...............you are the hostile enemy!! blowing up mud huts and killing unarmed people doesnt make you brave!! and what do you get at the end of it all(if you live) a few cheap medals and a very shitty pension which will fuck you up for a whole load of other things as you waste away into old age.........but the memories of what you did in the name of peace will haunt you for ever because deep down you know it was wrong!
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:44 AM   #7
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Brave but misguided men and women led by fucking idiotic megalomaniacs sums it up for me.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:42 AM   #8
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Iv always felt the army would be better if used to help out in countries where they have had natural disasters, help with search and rescue and the rebuilding of the country. Some units could be specialised in specific areas, instead of a tank regiment train them in heavy machinery use and have them clear roads/fallen buildings, grunts and infantry can be trained brick layers/sparky's/chippies/plumbers, this will also solve the problem of what they do when they get out, they have a trade that can be used for good instead of becoming some dodgy doorman/police officer or fuck ups.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:45 AM   #9
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Because our family and friends arn't safe because of the "evil terrorists"


In other words..

They're under emotional mind control.
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:47 AM   #10
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i'm off to watch team america world police to laugh it all off
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devorian View Post
Kids with limited opportunities who have been suckered into the macho bullshit and desensitised to the violence by game consoles.

During the Vietnam war the US military panicked because when it came to one on one kill situation a high percentage of the US soldiers wouldn't actually go through with it even if it jeopardised their own safety After being weaned on Call of duty, not a problem 95% kill rate.
I don't think the macho image of the army is a big part of why people sign up. Not in the UK anyway. Several of my mates joined up after we left school and they were the nerdy kids from poor families that just wanted to get a job and avoid more classroom education. One of them attempted suicide and is struggling to come to terms with what he saw in Afghanistan. This recession has been a blessing for the military. Unfortunately, the scummy kids are the ones living off handouts, drinking strong cider on park benches and beating people up. The good natured intelligent ones from poor families are having their legs blown off in the Middle East. Bare in mind, it's other people's kids losing their lives, Tony Blair didn't send his son off to some dusty wasteland to lose his limbs/life/mind/soul.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:52 AM   #12
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Some people join up to get to do things that they wouldn't get away with on Civvy Street. Sick fucks.
And there are those who think it will make them more attractive to women.
Maybe some of them secretly crave death.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:02 PM   #13
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It is sad how things have come to this, as there is in fact incredible valour in a person wanting to defend their kind. A truly brave thing to do, and honourable. Unfortunately todays wars are corporate wars, its not about defence, its about abuse. Money, resources, power greed….

We will always need a military. Even in an ideal world, say in the future (I hope!), where humanity has learned to live together in peace and harmony, and love each other, the world is a wonderful place to be. Now that’s great, but we still need armed forces! We still need a military, technology, soldiers prepared to fight for us.

We would be oh so the fools not to. As whos to say we are alone in this universe? Only a naive and suicidal intelligent species, would not master the art of war as far as it could and excel in it.

We can do killing very well. Fine. I just wish we would stop killing EACH OTHER!
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #14
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I admire your passion on the subject OP but your post is disjointed and crude. Firstly, continuously using War films as 'evidence' of military life is not the best of starts. Your 20 points could be condensed to about 5 as many are the same point in a different guise. Most importantly though you are only looking at one aspect of the military.

I cannot speak for the US Army but for the British Army for every Iraq and Afghanistan i can mention Haiti, Thailand, Belize and numerous other overseas humanitarian relief efforts. In the UK the Army assisted during public sector strikes as well as environmental disasters such as flooding and foot & mouth outbreaks. Here is a link explaining why, worldwide military forces are used in this way:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...manrelief.html

Does this justify illegal wars and civilain casulaties? Of course it doesn't. A 'justified war' is a rare thing and there have been many that have caused the unnecessary suffering of millions. However, your blanket description of those in the military as mindless automatons marching slowly towards their inevitable doom is both fallacious and offensive. Tell the military surgeons who pioneer burn and trauma surgery that they have made a mistake in their choice of career.

For every gung ho grunt you show to me i will show you 10 men and women that would attend the scene of a car accident, corden off the area, provide first aid to the casualties and assist the emergency services before disappearing off afterwards for a drink in a nearby pub not asking for nor expecting any recognition.

It is a sad reflection on the world that someone as keen to see a better world as you clearly are get blinded by a popular portrayal of the military as brainless trained killers. The UK Army will soon be a force of just 82,000. Currently the 99,000 are broken down as follows:

The Household Cavalry/ Royal Armoured Corps 6,000
Royal Regiment of Artillery 7,710

Corps of Royal Engineers 9,660
The Infantry 24,750
Army Air Corps 2,140

Royal Army Chaplains Department 130
Royal Signals 7,600
The Royal Logistics Corps 15,420
Royal Army Medical Corps 3,010
Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers 10,010
Army Legal Service 120
Royal Army Veterinary Corps 350
Small Arms School Corps 160
Royal Army Dental Corps 370
Intelligence Corps 1,530
Army Physical Training Corps 480
Gurkhas 3,600
Queen Alexandra's Royal Army Nursing Corps 900
Adjutant General's Corps (Provost Branch) 1,810
Corps of Army Music 790
Adjutant Generals Corps (Staff and Personnel Support Branch) 3,750
Adjutant Generals Corps (Educational and Training Services Branch) 340
Full-time trained Army (approx) 99,670

After the cuts the number of so-called 'teeth arm' (in red) will be approximately 40000 which is less than half of the Army. The remainder include Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers, Chefs, Nurses, Technicians, Clerks, Musicians etc etc.

You asked at the start why anyone would possibly want to join the Army? You can now see that it is not just so they can walk slowly towards the enemy with babies hanging lifeless from their bayonets. Over half join for the chance of a career. Is it for everyone, no. Is it all sunshine tours and huge paypackets? No.

Is it a life of inevitable heartache and anguish though. NO!
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:23 AM   #15
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When you look at the bullshit propaganda the question the soldiers are asking is why not. They think they are dying for their country, they think they are heroes.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:46 AM   #16
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"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service." - Albert Einstein
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:30 PM   #17
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Because they`re LEMMINGS.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:01 PM   #18
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They copy what their Fathers/Grandfathers/Uncles/Friends etc have done.

They are brainwashed by TPTB that by joining they are going to make a difference for the better.

They have no choice (dependent on what country you live in)

They are released from prison early to do so.

They are uneducated and have nothing else going for them.

Just some exp of people I knew.

Now you have computer games that are showing graphic images of violence, spreading hatred of certain races, falsifying history (at best innacurately explaining the facts). Dumbing down the ability to see right from wrong. All aimed at children! The generations they need.

GTA, Black OPs, Sniper etc... These games are not healthy - time well spent are they?
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:27 PM   #19
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I think it is a way out of doin a 9 to 5 for some people.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:42 PM   #20
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"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service." - Albert Einstein

Why would anyone join the military and get killed in a war?

I have a vehement question that I don't get. Why would anyone be dumb enough to join the military and go to war, where one has EVERYTHING to lose and NOTHING to gain? Technically, it's akin to committing suicide for no valid reason, especially since American involvement in wars usually have nothing to do with "serving your country" or "defending freedom".

I'm surprised they got anyone to serve in the Iraq War. What if no one agreed to go? Why would anyone go in the first place against all reason and common sense, as well as against their own survival instinct?

Who would risk their life and limb for a war they have nothing to gain from and everything to lose? Technically, it's no different than committing suicide. Further, there are no logical reasons to serve in a war, while there are many logical reasons not to, which I will elaborate on below.

Anti-war sentiment has been mainstream in America for a long time. Back in the 80's, blockbuster movies like "Born on the Fourth of July" with Tom Cruise and "Full Metal Jacket" by Oliver Stone, eloquently portrayed the true horrors of war as unjust and deceitful, without glory or honor.

So even back in the 80's, the American people already knew the truth about the horrors of war, and how there was nothing glorious in it, and how the government deceived young people into the military. The Vietnam War was a prime example, which was ingrained into the minds of the American people.

So how could anyone agree to serve in the Iraq War in 2003? Did they forget all those Oliver Stone films made long ago? Did they forget about the movie "Saving Private Ryan" which should have discouraged anyone from joining the military? Haven't all the poor youngsters who joined the military seen those films? Did they forget about the lessons learned from the Vietnam War?

How could they forget the Vietnam War, which has been etched into American history as a unnecessary tragedy and mistake that cost 60,000 American lives? Isn't that supposed to be common knowledge to Americans? If so, how could the troops in Iraq have forgotten all about it, since it was such an important lesson in history, and agreed to serve in another Vietnam War? It boggles the mind.

By now, everyone knows that the government lies a lot and starts unnecessary wars for profit, or some other nefarious reason (such as an Illuminati sacrifice ritual?). Even movies have taught us that. And conspiracies are all over the internet, in movies and pop culture. People get paranoid easily too. Government distrust is already part of the mainstream culture. So why are there still people who believe everything the government tells them, as if it were some bastion of truth? There is no basis to believe that authority=truth.

Besides, don't all living things have a natural survival instinct? Why would the troops serving in the war override their survival instinct by risking their lives in someone else's war? Why doesn't their survival instinct prevent them from serving in the war? If no one agreed to serve in a war, then the war would never exist. Simple as that, you'd think?

And why are more women serving in the armed forces nowadays? Women hate war the most. They don't even like watching war movies. Have you ever met a woman who was a fan of war movies? I've never met even one. Women are nurturers by instinct, not warriors. They are inclined toward social cohesion, not division. So this is very odd and inexplicable.

What's even more odd is why anyone would actually volunteer to serve in a war? For example, why did NFL star Pat Tillman feel the need to volunteer for the Iraq War so that he could get killed? That was a foolish suicidal move with no basis in logic, like a plothole in a movie. Why did Tillman's football coach describe him as an "intellectual athlete"? Would an intellectual volunteer for a war that anyone could see was a sham from the start? Before the Iraq War, no one wanted it and no one supported it, except the controlled corporate media, who were probably just pretending anyway, because it was their job to.

If you add it all up logically, by joining the military and being sent to war, you have EVERYTHING to lose and NOTHING to gain. The long list of negatives and drawbacks far outweighs any benefits. Thus the decision to serve in a war is totally illogical, foolish and suicidal. Consider the following list of reasons not to join the military or fight in a war:

20 Reasons why joining the military is foolish, suicidal and illogical

Note: If you know anyone planning to join the military or currently serving in it, please forward this list to them.

1. The troops serving in Iraq must all know that they are risking their life and limb for corporate profits, not for freedom, democracy or protection of their country, right? They can't be that dumb. As David Icke said, "When you join the military you are not serving your country. You are serving an evil cabal that wants to enslave you."

So why would they agree to give up their life and limb to serve greedy corrupt corporations? No sane person would do that. Especially since the elites and politicians that sent them to war refuse to send their own sons to fight in it. Don't the troops care about this hypocrisy?

2. Those serving in the war risk losing their body parts or incurring permanent injuries, which would disable them for life and bar them from love, dating, relationships and romance with the opposite sex. They could never get a girlfriend or wife if they became disabled, since women will not love a disabled man. (like Tom Cruise's character in the movie "Born on the Fourth of July") This means that they will become miserable and depressed for the rest of their lives.

3. If the troops who are married, died or became disabled, their spouses and parents would suffer greatly, as well as any children. Why would you want to do that to your mom, who birthed you and fed you and raised you, just so you can be killed in an unnecessary war started by greedy sociopaths with no conscience? WTF?! Wouldn't that be a horrible thing to do to your mom? Do you even care about your mom or love her? Geez.

4. The troops have nothing to gain in a war, and everything to lose. The best they can hope for is to come back in one piece. Thus there is no logical incentive. They are not going to get a share of the billions in oil profits that the Bush family is getting. Don't they know that?

5. Troops often come back with post traumatic stress syndrome, which psychologically haunts them for years, or for life. Why would anyone want that? Many veterans even commit suicide because they can't deal with it. (like Tommy Lee Jones' character did in the movie "Heaven and Earth" by Oliver Stone)

6. In the military, you lose every freedom you have ever known. This starts right from boot camp, where you are treated like property, not like a human being, while you are turned into a killing machine. It's very degrading. (see the boot camp section at the beginning of the movie "Full Metal Jacket")

Why would anyone like that? Why would anyone want to become an expendable pawn? Especially when you know you are giving up your life and freedom for sociopaths who only care about power and conquest, not you.

7. In combat, you may end up killing innocent people, including women and children (as US troops did in Vietnam). Or you may even kill fellow troops in friendly fire. This would haunt you and leave you with guilt for the rest of your life. Why would you want that?

8. The pay in the military is not that great unless you are an officer. You don't get a pension unless you served for many years or you were injured in combat.

9. Veterans are usually treated like shit by the government, who no longer finds them useful. So they have to struggle to get benefits. Why would you want to serve a government who uses and dumps its own like that? It doesn't make any sense!

10. The food in the military reportedly sucks.

11. Boot camp training is strenuous, exhausting and painful.

12. Troops have to spend long indeterminate lengths of time away from their families, all of which is out of their control. They also have no control over where they are deployed.

13. Joining the military or fighting in a war is NOT "serving" your country or the people of your country. Nor is it "protecting or defending freedom". That is a cliche which if you think about, has ZERO basis to support it. So why do all the people in the armed forces believe in it? It's very odd and is a sad testament to how gullible people are to believe in the most baseless things. Has the military pulled off some kind of miraculous mind control trick? Why would so many believe something for no reason other than that they were told it?

Think about it. How does you dying in a war help any of the common people back home? It doesn't. The common people's freedoms have nothing to do with a war foreign country. In fact, most people's freedom has nothing to do with any government. Governments don't really have much power over you except to use scare tactics on you and mind control you through your TV. A government cannot terrorize you with a standing army directly because it does not have enough troops to push everyone around. As long as you don't break any laws, the government won't even bother with you. It has better things to do.

In reality, one's personal freedom is far more directly affected by one's daily obligations to their work, family, employer and bills. All these things directly affect your everyday routine and personal life, far more than any government does. Even your employer has far more control over your "freedom" than the government does, and you are free to quit working for your employer if you want.

Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way. Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom. Besides, isn't it ironic that the military claims to be defending freedom yet there is no freedom within the military itself?

I've never understood why those serving in a war claim that war protesters are being unappreciative of them for defending their freedoms? This is not only bad logic, but false as well, since fighting in wars based on deception to serve elite/industrial nefarious interests has NOTHING to do at all with protecting the freedoms of the American people. It has ZERO relevance. How can people be that stupid? It's very sad and speaks badly about human intelligence.

What does it mean to "serve your country" anyway? A "country" is a social and political construct that doesn't really exist. So how can you "serve" something that doesn't exist? This concept seems like a mind control technique designed to brainwash people into doing whatever they are told by their rulers for the "love of their country". Otherwise, it has no logical basis in reality.

In this context, the idea of "patriotism" makes no sense either, since there is no "country" to be patriotic for - no "country" to love, serve and die for - since a country doesn't truly exist except as a sociological/political construct.

Here are quotes from what great thinkers, writers and intellectuals have said about the folly and danger of "patriotism":

“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.”
- George Bernard Shaw

“Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.”
- Bertrand Russell

“Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”
- Oscar Wilde

“Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him?”
- Blaise Pascal

“Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, and conscience, and a slavish enthralment to those in power.”
- Leo Tolstoy

"In war, truth is the first casualty"
- Aeschylus

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service."
- Albert Einstein

Likewise, the concept of "doing your duty" by serving in the military when drafted into a war (like the draft in Vietnam) has no logical basis either since the US Constitution says that we are free and that government has no right to force people into a war against their will.

Moreover, wars are started elites and their cabals for nefarious purposes that have nothing to do with justice or freedom. So obviously, you participating in that is not "serving" the common people at all. How do the American people benefit from the rich getting richer? Trickle down economics of the 80's proved to be a sham.

In addition, most wars the US has been involved in have had nothing to do with defending the security or freedoms of the American people. In fact, they have been based on lies and deception.

Finally, the elites that start wars were not even elected by the American people. They were placed there by their secret societies and fraternal orders (Freemasons, Skull and Bones, Illuminati, etc) to serve the agenda of that secret order, not that of the American people. Every researcher and thinker knows that by now. There is no "government by the people" in America. That is a myth that has no basis in reality. People have no real say in their government. There is no democracy and voting does not affect policy. The illusion of democracy has proven to be a sham again and again. Every example in history demonstrates this. How many examples have to occur before the American people realize it?

In fact, a true democracy cannot even work because most people are not wise or rational, but are foolish and easily misled. Mobs are not rational or wise, and therefore mob rule is not a good thing. Intellectuals throughout history, including our Founding Fathers, knew that and wrote about it. Plus, truth is not determined by the majority, but by evidence, logic and reason. So shouldn't evidence-based logic and reason rule a society, rather than the majority?

Even George Washington in his letters said that the Freemasons (which he was a member of) were working to DIVIDE the government from its people so that the people had no real say (only the illusion of it), while the Freemason order ran things in secret. Therefore, if you are serving the interests of elites who were selected by secret fraternal orders rather than the American people, then technically, that is NOT serving your country or its people.

Before leaving office, President Eisenhower warned America in a public speech about the military industrial complex and its corrupt aims for domination, power and control. Obviously, serving a corrupt military industrial complex has nothing to do with serving the American people.

In summary, joining the military is NOT "serving your country" because:

a) A "country" does not really exist. It is a social and political construct artificially created by society and culture.
b) Serving in a war started for profit, conquest and other nefarious motives by the elites and their cabals is obviously not serving the common people of your country, who do not even benefit from it.
c) Most wars the US has been involved in have nothing to do with defending the freedom or security of the American people. Instead, they have been built on lies and deception. This is nothing new.
d) The notion of patriotism is foolish, untrue, delusional and illogical, as evidenced by the quotes above.
e) A government cannot really take away your freedom. It can only scare you from afar through the media. No government has enough troops to push everyone around. Your freedoms are far more directly affected by your daily routine and obligations to work, family, employer and paying bills than by any government. Therefore, a conflict between governments (yours and another) does not add or take away your freedom in any way. Governments exist to control people anyway, not to give people freedom. So what does it matter whether your government is controlled by domestic corruption or foreign? Thus, your participation in a war does not contribute anything to freedom.
f) The elites that start wars for nefarious purposes were not even elected by the American people, but placed there by secret societies, fraternal orders, and their cabals (e.g. Freemasons, Skull and Bones, Illuminati). Therefore, serving them is not technically serving the American people at all, especially since there is no "government by the people" or true democracy in America.

14. There is no logical reason to serve in someone else's war that they themselves refuse to fight in. If Bush starts a war, then he should have to fight in it too, like Alexander the Great, who fought with his troops, did. There should be a law requiring those who start wars to fight in them. Such a law would essentially end wars. It's not fair or right for those who start wars to make other people die in them. Don't the troops know that? If so, why didn't they call Bush a hypocrite when he visited them for a pep talk? They should have jeered him, not cheered him.

15. Besides, anyone can see that Bush is a liar, demon and con artist. It's written all over his face. His facial features look demonic and evil. He looks like a total con artist and scumbag. Even a dog can see that. He does not even look serious, credible or honest at all. And he talks like a very bad stooge actor who can't even act. He looks like a total joke and insult to the American people, and is not even funny or comical.

No one would even buy a used car from a guy like him, let alone elect him as President. So why would the troops cheer him when he visited them in Iraq? Were they all acting? At least Hitler looked honest and serious, whereas Bush doesn't at all.

Why is it that when a President is much beloved, like Lincoln or Kennedy, they get assassinated. But when everyone hates a fake stooge President, like Bush, who is universally hated, he never gets assassinated? Isn't that so upside down? Shouldn't the collective will of the people have saved Kennedy or taken out Bush, according to the "thoughts create reality" principle of the Law of Attraction?

16. It doesn't make sense to kill people you have no quarrel with, just because their leader has a quarrel with yours. You should let them sort it out themselves, not use you for it. Who would want to be used to settle another's affairs? That's so stupid. It's not any of your business, so why make it your business? It doesn't make any damn sense! The people you kill in a war may be wonderful people that you would have been friends with, outside of the war.

17. America is an oligarchy or corporatocracy, not a democracy or a republic. It is a country ruled by an elite class who operate outside of public scrutiny. Everyone knows that. The American system is set up to benefit the top 1 percent of the elite, who essentially own the country.

That's why the government doesn't use tax dollars to provide national healthcare, like all the other industrialized countries do, so that no one has to go bankrupt from medical bills. Instead, the government prefers to use tax dollars to drop bombs on other countries.

Now is that a system that you really want to serve? Geez. How obvious can it get? And more to the point, why would anyone want to serve such a system?

18. If war is natural, honorable and good, then why do veterans commit suicide so often? Why won't any of the Congressmen send their sons to a war? Instead, they have to recruit boys from the poorest families who can't get jobs to go die in wars. But again, why would anyone agree to do that?

19. If you have an inclination to go out and kill or destroy things, why don't you just play video games or go hunting, or join a sport like boxing, wrestling or martial arts, to unleash your aggression? Why would you need to risk your life and limb in a senseless war serving corrupt people who lie to you? It doesn't make any sense.

20. Your government has a long history of lying and has lied to you many times. So why would you want to serve a liar or give up your life to serve a liar? For example, the US government lied in 1964 about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, because it needed a reason to start the Vietnam War. As a result of this lie and staged event, 60,000 Americans lost their lives unnecessarily. Why have you forgotten that? Yet no one was ever brought to justice for this lie that led to the deaths of so many people during the Vietnam War. Where is the justice in that? Instead, it was just treated as an "honest mistake".

What's odd is that if a friend lied to you about something important and serious, you would no longer trust that friend. Everyone knows that. So why then can the government repeatedly lie to you, yet you still consider it to be a bastion of truth? That doesn't make sense, and only testifies to the level of brainwashing you've received that "authority=truth" and your need to believe that government is a caring parent.

Conclusion

So you see, joining the military and serving in a war is 100 percent illogical, foolish and suicidal. In light of the 20 reasons above, I can't understand or fathom why anyone would join the military and get obligated into serving in a war. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Why would anyone do something that was 100 percent illogical and senseless, knowing that they are serving evil powers that don't care about them, and could come back dead or disabled? I can't fathom that.

Could this be why the US government wants to dumb down people and keep them stupid, or else no one would agree to serve in a war if they knew the truth and could think logically? Do people who join the military tend to have lower IQ's? (no offense intended) or do they just have no job prospects?

If any of you reading this have served in the military before, can you explain why you joined up in light of the reasons above? What were you thinking? Didn't any of the sensible reasons above cross your mind? How could you join something with so many logical reasons against it?

Also, if those currently active in the military read the list of reasons above, do you think they'd drop out?

Note: No disrespect or offense is intended to those who served in the military, but the truth is the truth isn't it? There is no logic in voluntarily dying to serve the interests of a corrupt greedy elite that do not care about you or the American people, all of which has NOTHING to do with "serving your country or people, or defending freedom".

Note: If you know anyone planning to join the military or is currently serving in it, please forward the above list to them. You can forward the link to them, or copy and paste the above to them.

"When you join the military you are not serving your country. You are serving an evil cabal that wants to enslave you." - David Icke
Good post and I totally agree. Ironically most of my cousins are/have been in the Army and Air Force, and they are all brainwashed by the serving your country nonsense. I'm certainly not and never will be. However, if you're one of the lucky ones who don't get dragged into some illegal war, then I guess it does have some positives, such as visiting other countries and it can be a good trade for mechanics, fitters etc.

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