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Old 04-07-2009, 06:52 PM   #21
michael christopher
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Originally Posted by tracker View Post
I see it this way
we only have a few peoples words on it in a book .

same goes for America .

Ihave never seen America .
some say it is a country whilst I have never been out of Britain .

How do I know it exists ?

all the media/books/tv/ maps------------are only someone elses words and pictures ,

this doesnt prove to me it exists ---------however
if someone is willing to dragg the country of America to britain and just park it outside my front door i might believe it exists .

until then
America/Japan/russia/norway/ china and jesus

are not real !
Anyone can prove America is real.

Apparently no one can prove Jesus Christ was real.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:52 PM   #22
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nothing on this thread has proven to me that jesus exists

niether has anything on this thread proven to me that china /america/russia etc exist iether .

none of it exists .

its all someone elses word for it .

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:53 PM   #23
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It could be easily solved by changing the thread title to "Give evidence Jesus lived."
The thread title is fine. What is the difference anyway? There isn't one.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:53 PM   #24
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Anyone can prove America is real.

Apparently no one can prove Jesus Christ was real.
you havent read my post .

how can you prove to me america exists ?

you cant !
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:54 PM   #25
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nothing on this thread has proven to me that jesus exists

niether has anything on this thread proven to me that china /america/russia etc exist iether .

none of it exists .

its all someone elses word for it .
If you can't tell the difference between knowing whether Jesus exists and America exists, then I think you may have problems.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:55 PM   #26
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If you can't tell the difference between knowing whether Jesus exists and America exists, then I think you may have problems.

your ego is very large isnt it .

as said

i have never left england

so prove to me america exists !

go on , proooooooooooove it .

lets see whether your mougth of me having problems and your ego has the ability to prove it .

prove it

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Old 04-07-2009, 06:56 PM   #27
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you havent read my post .

how can you prove to me america exists ?

you cant !
Here's the deal.

Does the word America mean anything? To a degree, yes. It represents in the minds of most people a particular area of land in the world. Of course there is no real difference between this land and another area of land.

Does the word Jesus mean anything? To a degree, yes. It is SUPPOSED to represent in the minds of most people a particular person who literally existed and walked the earth. The difference between Jesus and America is that Jesus was a singular person. If you are making this comparison and being intellectually honest, then you must be saying there is no difference between Jesus and another person, which is missing my point entirely.

Do you believe someone who raised himself from the dead actually lived on this planet, and do you think that the Biblical Judeo-Christianity is his actual word? If so, can you please provide me evidence?

If not, can you stop playing mind games?
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:08 PM   #28
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[QUOTE=michael christopher;1093978]Here's the deal.

Does the word America mean anything? To a degree, yes. It represents in the minds of most people a particular area of land in the world. Of course there is no real difference between this land and another area of land.

QUOTE]

which land ? how can you prove that you aint just a long way from here ?
after all the british isles has many islands , how can you prove to me that you aint on one of them to which you call america ?

[QUOTE=michael christopher;1093978]

Does the word Jesus mean anything? To a degree, yes. It is SUPPOSED to represent in the minds of most people a particular person who literally existed and walked the earth. The difference between Jesus and America is that Jesus was a singular person. If you are making this comparison and being intellectually honest, then you must be saying there is no difference between Jesus and another person, which is missing my point entirely.

QUOTE]


one person ----------?
many people --------?

surely if the majority of people are right , then every one on this forum fighting big brother is wrong , and religion is right because of the majority

seems as though you have learned nothing in your wisdom .

if i have missed your point , then you have missed mine .

[QUOTE=michael christopher;1093978]

Do you believe someone who raised himself from the dead actually lived on this planet, [QUOTE]

yes ----i have died and come back --------nothing new there . many people die and come back ----wake up !
it happens every day .Hospitals do it , people drown /die and then are resusatated .


Quote:
Originally Posted by michael christopher View Post
and do you think that the Biblical Judeo-Christianity is his actual word? If so, can you please provide me evidence?

If not, can you stop playing mind games?
no the bible christianity thing is not his word .
most of his word was recorded by St thomas and isnt a book of the bible , if it was people would see the curches and religions for what they really are .

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Originally Posted by michael christopher View Post
If not, can you stop playing mind games?
criky

playing games ?

who do you think you are ?

let me get this straight , you believe / some how / in that mind of yours / that i have enough time to waist in this tiny time on earth , to give you attention of my time in the form of games ?

looks like you have missed my point .

all baorders are in our minds , one person / amny people / makes no difference to proof or truth .

I thought that some how this might be a thread for the inteligent minded ,

looks like i got this sooooooooooooooo wrong .

playing games waisting my time ,

maybe you are right


I have waisted my time .


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Old 04-07-2009, 07:10 PM   #29
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yes ----i have died and come back --------nothing new there . many people die and come back ----wake up !
it happens every day .Hospitals do it , people drown /die and then are resusatated .
Not after three days.

Enough of this.

Anyone have the actual evidence I have requested?
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:17 PM   #30
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Not after three days.

Enough of this.

Anyone have the actual evidence I have requested?
now 3 days is a bit long for anyone , agree with that stuff straight away .
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:49 AM   #31
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It's no more preposterous than claiming that Jesus did exist. Stop acting as though I have no right to ask such a question when the idea that Jesus was a real figure is jammed down my throat every day by the media and nearly every denizen of the country. I am well within my rights to ask people to provide evidence for their claims, particularly when they also have the arrogance to claim that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation..
What exactly is it that gives you the impression that you have any rights and what entitles you to them? Your basing your own rules for being on something you've been taught to believe is even neccessary when at best its not and at worst is imaginary.Your also asking an unanswerable question that you know fine well cannot be answered, so dont pretend by this point you haven't realised that and yet your still asking.

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You're being facetious. Neither the Bible nor Christians claim that Jesus' life on earth was a subjective experience. It is proclaimed to be an objective truth, hence my desire for evidence. Sorry..
Whether they claimed it or not, both you and I now know that this is the case, so your searching for a wrong answer from the outset.

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Neither am I. I am looking for evidence pertaining to the existence of the Biblical Jesus Christ..
Indeed. Covered above.

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Originally Posted by michael christopher View Post
I never took issue with the teachings of Jesus. I took issue with the idea that he was an actual person and not merely an archetypal symbol, and I also took issue with the thought deriving from this belief that faith in Jesus Christ is the only path to salvation. Such an astonishing claim to make considering no evidence even exists that Jesus Christ was a real person, don't you think? Yes, it's funny you proclaim me arrogant and egotistical for asking this question, but you are the one attacking me for asking it without even providing any sort of real answer..
Hmmm, I didn't proclaim you to be anything actually, both those are a product of your own conclusion. Exactly where did I attack you?

As for Jesus being the "only path to salvation", I dont personally believe that, but why such an intense interest in proving otherwise? Salvation is not enlightenment by the way. "Salvation" refers to realizing the God(or lower bliss state) through unquestionable devotion to something, not the personal effort used achieving it as refered to by Buddha etc. They're two different paths altogether.


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I don't want to be right. I just want someone to give me the tiniest shred of evidence that Jesus Christ was a real person. So far, 17 replies and not one shred of evidence. I bet this will trend well..
You dont want to be right? Why ask a question you know is unanswerable then? I wasn't here to answer you, but I do find it interesting that your counting replies when you claim this is no "wanting to be right" issue.

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Take a look in the mirror, buddy.
I did before I commented, have you even thought about it after having it mentioned?

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Old 05-07-2009, 09:08 AM   #32
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Regarding both your post above to "PD" and the thread question in general though, you may want to look at why you've asked this question in the first place. I could be wrong(as I dont know you personally -which going by your posts in unfortunate), but it very much seems to me that your own ego investment is "wanting to be right" which itself stems from a sense of insecurity.

Be careful, the "ego" by use of the mind can bury almost anything -especially our own motives
.
its pretty obvious thats what is occurring
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:33 PM   #33
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Here is your chance to offer actual evidence as to the existence of Jesus Christ.

The Bible is not evidence of his existence.

Care to get started, anyone?

BTW, I will not respond to fallacious arguments such as "If you weren't alive 2000 years ago, how can you say he didn't exist?"

The burden of proof is not on me. I am not the one making the claim that Jesus existed in spite of virtually no credible evidence.

Provide me actual testimonies of people who lived at the time that can be VERIFIED as AUTHENTIC DOCUMENTS, although I suppose that can be hard in this day and age when the Catholic Church has fabricated so many documents, many of them included in the New Testament. Still, I'll take whatever evidence I can get, as long as it's actual evidence, and not just some BS fallacy designed to trick people into believing in something they really should have no intellectual reason to believe in. So no mind-fucks. No mind-games. I know that's asking for a lot in a post about Jesus, but I'll see what I can get (I expect to be disappointed, I hope I'm wrong).

ever heard of Publius Lentulus? This probably isn't classed as evidence, since scholars don't even agree whether he existed or not. According to wiki, they don't think he ever existed at all.

BUT:
Quote:
by the Roman governor of Judea, Publius Lentulus, in a letter to the Roman Senate:

"Conscript Fathers:

There lives at this time in Judea a man of singular virtue, whose name is Jesus, whom the barbarians esteem as a prophet, but his followers love and adore him as the offspring of the immortal God. He calls back the dead from the graves, and heals all sorts of diseases with a word or touch.

He is a tall man, well-shaped and of amiable and reverend aspect; his hair of a color that can hardly be matched, falling into graceful curls, waving about and very agreeably couching upon his shoulder, parted on the crown of his head, running as a stream to the front after the fashion of the Nazarites.

His forehead high, large and imposing; his cheeks without spot or wrinkle, beautiful with a lovely red; his nose and mouth formed with exquisite symmetry; his beard, and of a color suitable to his hair, reaching below his chin and parted in the middle like a fork; his eyes bright, blue, clear and serene, look innocent, dignified, manly and mature. In proportion of body most perfect and captivating; his arms and hands delectable to behold.

He rebukes with majesty, counsels with mildness, his whole address, whether in word or deed, being eloquent and grave. No man has seen him laugh, yet his manners are exceedingly pleasant, but he has wept frequently in the presence of men. He is temperate, modest and wise.

A man for his extraordinary beauty and divine perfection, surpassing the children of men in every sense." - from an early edition of THE STELLE LETTER.


Whether it was Jesus or Yeshua (Hebrew) I Personally find "The Nazarene" more fitting, so we don't need to argue about silly semantics.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:41 PM   #34
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What exactly is it that gives you the impression that you have any rights and what entitles you to them? Your basing your own rules for being on something you've been taught to believe is even neccessary when at best its not and at worst is imaginary.Your also asking an unanswerable question that you know fine well cannot be answered, so dont pretend by this point you haven't realised that and yet your still asking.
This is just silly at this point. Millions of people all over the country believe Jesus was a real historical figure. Hell, hundreds of people on this board believe that. I am well within my rights to ask for evidence of his existence. If you can't seem to understand that, then I really don't know what to say to you...

I do define my rights, and it is within my rights to ask whatever questions I please. If it upsets you so, then you don't have to read my threads.

Quote:
Whether they claimed it or not, both you and I now know that this is the case, so your searching for a wrong answer from the outset.
I'm not searching for a wrong answer. I want some of these people who claim the Biblical Jesus was a real person to prove it. So there you go.

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Hmmm, I didn't proclaim you to be anything actually, both those are a product of your own conclusion. Exactly where did I attack you?
You certainly did imply that my asking the question was egotistical, which is actually very egotistical on your part. I assume arrogance comes with ego.

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As for Jesus being the "only path to salvation", I dont personally believe that, but why such an intense interest in proving otherwise? Salvation is not enlightenment by the way. "Salvation" refers to realizing the God(or lower bliss state) through unquestionable devotion to something, not the personal effort used achieving it as refered to by Buddha etc. They're two different paths altogether.
What do you mean why is there an intense interest in proving otherwise? This is America in 2009 where millions of people are hypnotized by the lie which is hilariously still in existence despite the fact that there is literally 0 evidence that Jesus ever existed. What don't you understand? It would be easy to understand for most people why this question is such an important once. It seems that for some reason Christians and ex-Christians can't seem to understand why one of the most important questions of all time should be asked... hmmm.

You don't seem to get it. Christians claim Jesus was a real being and their very religion, which they shove down the throats of their children and unwitting others, is a lie. If I find it important to question their lies and make them answer for their bullshit, then that is just something I find important. Cool?

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You dont want to be right? Why ask a question you know is unanswerable then? I wasn't here to answer you, but I do find it interesting that your counting replies when you claim this is no "wanting to be right" issue.
You are still being silly. I can ask the question because Christians still make the claim that Jesus was a real figure with no evidence. If this issue were not about Christ, but something else, you would be on my side completely. For instance, when someone claims say that the Queen Mother is actually a 9 foot tall blood drinking reptile, do you just believe it despite the lack of evidence, or do you go around saying "Well, I can't prove it either way, I guess that means it's not such a crazy thing to believe."

That is just absurd.

You are wasting your time trying to illustrate the futility of my argument here. I know it's futile to ask Christians for evidence that Jesus existed. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT.

They can't prove their dogma yet still force it on others. This is called a demonstration.

Quote:
I did before I commented, have you even thought about it after having it mentioned?
Yeah, I look in the mirror every day.

Seems you didn't look hard enough if you still don't understand why it's absurd of you to imply my making a thread with this particular question is "egotistical" - but that's okay. I know how the mind works. It likes to deflect.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:44 PM   #35
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its pretty obvious thats what is occurring
Yeah, I'm asking for ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that Jesus existed.

So far over 30 replies, most of them attacking my asking of the question, without one person who even has the tiniest shred of evidence to bring forward that Jesus was a real person.

How many Christians does it take to bring forward one shred of evidence that Christianity is not a Satanic perversion of a religion?

Apparently more than have replied to this thread.
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:46 PM   #36
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ever heard of Publius Lentulus? This probably isn't classed as evidence, since scholars don't even agree whether he existed or not. According to wiki, they don't think he ever existed at all.

BUT:




Whether it was Jesus or Yeshua (Hebrew) I Personally find "The Nazarene" more fitting, so we don't need to argue about silly semantics.
Well, there is some slight evidence, even if most people think the guy never existed.

Let me state my opinion for everyone reading this thread who thinks I'm some kind of demonic monster, which of course is what you've been brainwashed to think about people who know Christianity is a Satanic lie.

I believe a person was very real who thought very much like the Christ of the Bible, with a few exceptions of course, and whose thoughts and ideas were stolen by the Roman empire to compile the Bible. His life was embellished with occult symbolism and supernatural feats to make him something that the superstitious Romans would worship.

I actually have endless amounts of evidence pointing in this direction, but it's all over the internet. Christians, stop being irresponsible and research the creation of your own holy text. It was designed to trap your mind.

Now, back on topic.

Anyone have even the tiniest shred of evidence as to the physical existence of water-walker JeZeus Christ?
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:55 PM   #37
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Well, there is some slight evidence, even if most people think the guy never existed.

Let me state my opinion for everyone reading this thread who thinks I'm some kind of demonic monster, which of course is what you've been brainwashed to think about people who know Christianity is a Satanic lie.

I believe a person was very real who thought very much like the Christ of the Bible, with a few exceptions of course, and whose thoughts and ideas were stolen by the Roman empire to compile the Bible. His life was embellished with occult symbolism and supernatural feats to make him something that the superstitious Romans would worship.

I actually have endless amounts of evidence pointing in this direction, but it's all over the internet. Christians, stop being irresponsible and research the creation of your own holy text. It was designed to trap your mind.

Now, back on topic.

Anyone have even the tiniest shred of evidence as to the physical existence of water-walker JeZeus Christ?
In other words, you believe that a teacher walked the earth perhaps in the time of when Jesus of the bible is purported to exist, and he helped to bring light and love to the world. Its just you doubt whether a person by the name of Jesus Christ ever existed?

Bah, that's all that really matters in the end isn't it mate? Not the silly name!
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Old 05-07-2009, 02:57 PM   #38
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In other words, you believe that a teacher walked the earth perhaps in the time of when Jesus of the bible is purported to exist, and he helped to bring light and love to the world. Its just you doubt whether a person by the name of Jesus Christ ever existed?

Bah, that's all that really matters in the end isn't it mate? Not the silly name!
No, the person I believe walked the earth never walked on water, rose from the dead, brought the dead back to life, turned water into wine, or any other supernatural miracles.

There is a difference between the Biblical Jesus Christ and the human being he was based on, and it's extremely important that people realize that difference.

It's also important to realize that the teachings of this person that are in the Bible have been heavily tampered with.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:33 PM   #39
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Michael Christopher -

So you are asking people to prove that their Jesus existed. Fair enough, you're on an endless and futile quest but well within your rights to ask such a question. (In my experience the evidence you seek, and the only type which can be relied upon is that of your own experience but each to their own)

And now you are saying, "No, the person I believe walked the earth never walked on water, rose from the dead, brought the dead back to life, turned water into wine, or any other supernatural miracles."

Perhaps I should ask you to prove to me that the person you believe in existed!

Unless I'm missing something you now appear confused (maybe also slightly hypocritical?) Maybe others are correct in that your ego has buried your ability to scrutinize your own way of thinking.

There is no offense intended in the above or in anything I have written beforehand, there was none taken on my part in the first place.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:29 PM   #40
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Here is your chance to offer actual evidence as to the existence of Jesus Christ.

The Bible is not evidence of his existence.

Care to get started, anyone?

BTW, I will not respond to fallacious arguments such as "If you weren't alive 2000 years ago, how can you say he didn't exist?"

The burden of proof is not on me. I am not the one making the claim that Jesus existed in spite of virtually no credible evidence.

Provide me actual testimonies of people who lived at the time that can be VERIFIED as AUTHENTIC DOCUMENTS, although I suppose that can be hard in this day and age when the Catholic Church has fabricated so many documents, many of them included in the New Testament. Still, I'll take whatever evidence I can get, as long as it's actual evidence, and not just some BS fallacy designed to trick people into believing in something they really should have no intellectual reason to believe in. So no mind-fucks. No mind-games. I know that's asking for a lot in a post about Jesus, but I'll see what I can get (I expect to be disappointed, I hope I'm wrong).
why do we have to prove that jesus exsisted ? Do you honestly expect us to give you some verified facts that he was alive ? Tell me how do you expect us to do this ? We don't have superpowers to go back in time and get you a photo of the great man in action do we ? (unless i'm mistaking)
and do you think it is wrong for people to believe in something like the bible (is that wrong in your eyes if peopl dedicate there lives to god ?) and let me ask you this, why do you need evidence to prove jesus' exsistence are the holy words in the new testament enough for you ? Although judging by the way you speak you are a atheist right ? And one final note that is very important
you've heard of the mark of the beast and how it is coming to effect now what with the microchips and whatnot is that not enough proof to believe in the lord no ?
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christianity, common sense, religious agendas

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