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Old 29-11-2014, 05:20 PM   #21
sanusi
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Isn't everything a belief? This entire universe?

If you truly don't believe in anything, then you are already there.

Satori/Nirvana/Enlightenment/Moksha et al.

Hell, even that is a belief.
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I with you up until the highlighted part. "Independent" is mere speculation.

Independent as in not needy of creation. Not dependent on anything aside the Originator's own being to create everything and sustain.
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Old 29-11-2014, 05:25 PM   #22
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One should have wrote a book called it...... my life

My life. -- and it should be a very interesting book. One's life is a book and one writes that book. So, in a way one is the author of one's own destiny.

Was it Atheism that made me reject the living which I found while I was being raised in a community of Mormons? ... ?? No. I wouldn't say so. But by the time I left the community, I just had no interest in those pursuits.. Didn't give it any thought one way or the other.

But I guess I did have enough of the trappings,, and was smart enough to relise this mass market form of religion wasn't going to do it for me. Wasn't for me.

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But the world and it's non-theistic values wasn't for me either. I didn't buy into the idea or beliif.... Get an education, good job, married, children,, retire equels good Full Life. Those pursuits made me sick.

I couldn't get myself to be a part of crime either.-- I was plauged by guilt for every theft, lie and shaddy deal.

So then thru some lucky circumstance,, I embarked on a quest. I didn't even know what I wanted -- but I knew I wanted some quiet and peace to find out what's going on with this world and myself.

Quiet and Peace.. Learn to meditate.-- that took years and visits to many differing communities of people. It still is going on with me.

It seems to me really it is a question of elevating one's consciousness. When someone I know expresses the desire to Retaliate for some harm done to them.. I now see this is an expression of low conscious state. In a higher conscoious state one does not seek revenge.

It's that easy. Elevate one's conscousness and one will BE.. that higher state. So, now when the swirling winds of revenge, hate, anger, rage, whatever manefest themselves.. I know the unreality of it.... while those in low-consciousness state see no other reality but revenge, hate, lust, greed whatever.
Religious cults and brainwashing harm real free belief. They also harm the mind and spirit. But this doesn't make the existence of a Creator fiction.

Besides Mormons believe in an anthropomorphic concept of the Divine. This would make the Originator limited. The Originator I have mentioned does not oppose logic or science.
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Old 29-11-2014, 05:27 PM   #23
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Independent as in not needy of creation. Not dependent on anything aside the Originator's own being to create everything and sustain.
It's still speculative. How do you know that the creator is not the creation and that no separate thing was needed to create it and that the creator's existence may be dependent on the creation?.



.

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Old 29-11-2014, 05:28 PM   #24
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So evidence is not proof, and belief includes faith, and thereby Atheism is a religion.
Atheism is not a religion. Nor is it a belief system,... Atheism is one single belief. That there is no conscious supreme being that created everything.

The common atheist has all sorts of things wrong about reality but they do have the god part figured out...

Not many are capable of discerning the truth IMO. Which is no god, but reincarnation and soul exists.
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Old 29-11-2014, 05:53 PM   #25
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Religious cults and brainwashing harm real free belief. They also harm the mind and spirit. But this doesn't make the existence of a Creator fiction.

Besides Mormons believe in an anthropomorphic concept of the Divine. This would make the Originator limited. The Originator I have mentioned does not oppose logic or science.
Yes.. it is brainwashing.. Like what I experiencded in public school and just about every other avenue in this crazy world. So Logically speaking... they are all suspect. Science, Religion, Government, Education. All forms of brainwashing.

But we, logically speaking, need education. One needs to learn and not be brainwashed. Brainwashing is a crime,, it's torture. And those who are brainwashed go on to torture others.

Spouting off something read from a book -- science or religion --- and to not have the consciousness of the reality,, what one is spouting off as truth. .... indicates one has been brainwashed.

And there are other indicators also. If one gets too intellectual about a philosophy or metaphysics.. indicates brainwashing. Or if one is not really smart enough to be propounding on subjects beyond them... indicates brainwashing.

And there is compassion. I don't hate people for this. This is part of the present World condition. I'm looking at it like a medical doctor would look at a sickness.

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Old 29-11-2014, 05:59 PM   #26
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Independent as in not needy of creation. Not dependent on anything aside the Originator's own being to create everything and sustain.
But that 'being' isn't a personal, independent entity, existing in time and space.

By your own logic, that would make it created, and thus, not the Creator.

The real truth of it is that 'God'/Nirvana/Christ/Divine Love/Spirit et cetera are synonymous. One and the same.

'God' is Love. Or, better, Love is God.

Not a dead guy floating in the sky.
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:02 PM   #27
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'God' is Love. Or, better, Love is God.
Such is an atheistic belief if you didn't realize...

And why would God be love any more than say, joy, or curiosity. Or even negative emotions. What about beings who do not feel or value love(like certain reptilians), what is god to them in your view?
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:06 PM   #28
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Such is an atheistic belief if you didn't realize...

And why would God be love any more than say, joy, or curiosity. Or even negative emotions. What about beings who do not feel or value love(like certain reptilians), what is god to them in your view?
Just go deep into yourself and you will find it.

Everything is God, within God, and going towards God. Everything is love; only the expression can be distorted through the lower frequency bodies, based upon egoic thought and belief.

Even the Reptilians are of God, so to speak. They have just chosen the outer illusion, over the inner real.

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Old 29-11-2014, 06:27 PM   #29
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Just go deep into yourself and you will find it.

Everything is God, within God, and going towards God. Everything is love; only the expression can be distorted through the lower frequency bodies, based upon egoic thought and belief.
Everything is not love. I'd like to see you explain that in a non vague manner how everything is love. Missiles are love too? Bullets are love? Is nuclear radiation love?

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Even the Reptilians are of God, so to speak. They have just chosen the outer illusion, over the inner real.
I'm sure you have many more illusions believed than most reptilians actually. They are alien to you. Some of them do not feel love naturally, and do not value love, in fact they seek to taint love in the universe. They do not have as developed of an emotional matrix as humans do. While love may be #1 to you, it is not #1 to every being in the universe. Your conditions are not universal...

I have felt some of the best love possible, it is powerful. However it does not dominate my life. Everything is definitely not love for me...

I wouldn't be surprised if your ideas came from them(reptile ETs)...
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:36 PM   #30
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Everything is not love. I'd like to see you explain that in a non vague manner how everything is love. Missiles are love too? Bullets are love? Is nuclear radiation love?

I'm sure you have many more illusions believed than most reptilians actually. They are alien to you. Some of them do not feel love naturally, and do not value love, in fact they seek to taint love in the universe. They do not have as developed of an emotional matrix as humans do. While love may be #1 to you, it is not #1 to every being in the universe. Your conditions are not universal...

I have felt some of the best love possible, it is powerful. However it does not dominate my life. Everything is definitely not love for me...

I wouldn't be surprised if your ideas came from them(reptile ETs)...
Even the ether that holds and binds the very molecules and atoms together is Love.

Before anything is, Love is the very background. The source of all consciousness. What else did you think that consciousness itself was?

Indeed, this is the only thing that can be fully realised as truth. All of the rest is a product of appearance and duality, and thus, cannot be claimed as knowledge.

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Old 29-11-2014, 06:40 PM   #31
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Even if that were true. And it's a pleasing enough idea.... That's still no evidence of gods existence.

I will gladly believe in god when the evidence is shown to me. Until then, I'll maintain that god does not exist. Because that's all I see....
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:44 PM   #32
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Even if that were true. And it's a pleasing enough idea.... That's still no evidence of gods existence.

I will gladly believe in god when the evidence is shown to me. Until then, I'll maintain that god does not exist. Because that's all I see....
How can you say that God does not exist, when you don't have any concrete idea of what God is or could be?

To say that a thing doesn't exist, you have to have some idea as to what you are referring to.

'God' is just another idea in the mind. Why not investigate and find out who you are first? After all, your own apparent existence is your only certainty.
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:47 PM   #33
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Even the ether that holds and binds the very molecules and atoms together is Love.

Before anything is, Love is the very background. The source of all consciousness. What else did you think that consciousness itself was?
I don't think so...

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Indeed, this is the only thing that can be fully realised as truth. All of the rest is a product of appearance and duality, and thus, cannot be claimed as knowledge.
Solipsism isn't the way! Love is not the only truth. Such is total nonsense.
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:49 PM   #34
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I concede that an intelligence may have created the universe. But...

A) I'd need to see evidence of that. Until then, I can't just 'believe'

B) even if an intelligence did create the universe. That still doesn't make it god. Does it perform miracles? does it listen prayers? does it punish sinners?
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Old 29-11-2014, 06:50 PM   #35
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I don't think so...

Solipsism isn't the way! Love is not the only truth. Such is total nonsense.
Not solipsism, because the self/ego, as a separate identity, is just another illusion, as is obvious.

A transient thing cannot be the Real. It owes it's very appearance and disappearance to the background of Reality.
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Old 29-11-2014, 07:00 PM   #36
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Even the ether that holds and binds the very molecules and atoms together is Love.
i have long thought the same thing.
the force that holds atoms together and the universe as a whole, the ever moving, ever changing structure, is love.
when john says in his gospel, that "god is love," he was trying to express this.
the "logos," is love, the first created, the whole of the universe.
matthew fox calls this "the cosmic christ."
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Old 29-11-2014, 07:00 PM   #37
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I concede that an intelligence may have created the universe. But...

A) I'd need to see evidence of that. Until then, I can't just 'believe'

B) even if an intelligence did create the universe. That still doesn't make it god. Does it perform miracles? does it listen prayers? does it punish sinners?
You are your only evidence. Your senses can be easily deceived.

As in 'The Matrix', where Morpheus asserts that what we call 'real' is just 'electrical signals interpreted by the brain', we cannot know if the evidence is real or not.

It's all relative, apart from the fact of a presence of some essence, that gives us self-awareness and the ability to see the false.
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Old 29-11-2014, 07:03 PM   #38
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As far as I'm concerned, that makes god less likely. not more....
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Old 29-11-2014, 07:06 PM   #39
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As far as I'm concerned, that makes god less likely. not more....
Might 'God' not just be another word to substitute for the force that drives the entire universe?

There's an esoteric science behind the interrelation of sounds and tonalities, neuroscience, electromagnetism, states of energy, electrical pathways, chakra harmonics, DNA, and more.

Many of these old names for 'God' are just certain pitches conducive to the realisation of the One Creator, One Love, One Life.

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Old 29-11-2014, 07:07 PM   #40
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i have long thought the same thing.
the force that holds atoms together and the universe as a whole, the ever moving, ever changing structure, is love.
when john says in his gospel, that "god is love," he was trying to express this.
the "logos," is love, the first created, the whole of the universe.
matthew fox calls this "the cosmic christ."
Indeed so.

This is the true mystical experience.
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