Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > General Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 20-04-2014, 02:13 PM   #3021
oh_me
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,897
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
Why do you assign any value to being wealthy?


It sounds like you give it the utmost value to me, you keep repeating it like it's a good thing.

Why?
I'm using it as an example. I am one of the ones that have no wealth, and don't relly want any. But nevertheless, it suits as an example to your dodgy theory.

And you managed to not focus on it, and give a sensible answer.
__________________
"If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself. If you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest gift you have to give is that of your own self-transformation." Lao Tzu

Last edited by oh_me; 20-04-2014 at 02:13 PM.
oh_me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:14 PM   #3022
oh_me
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,897
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
If he shot her,

He didn't,

and he was always going to shoot her.
Rubbish. It's the BBC that do repeats, not Life.
__________________
"If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself. If you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest gift you have to give is that of your own self-transformation." Lao Tzu
oh_me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:15 PM   #3023
oh_me
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,897
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post
Ok, so a causal chain including thoughts & events etc leads to a situation where I begin to get angry about something. All of a sudden awareness kicks in, I become aware of my welling anger and abate it. The awareness does not come from thoughts or ego, it is simply awareness and I can see no causal chain for it. It simply is. The awareness is instantaneous and is caused by my spiritual growth in an earlier part of my life, but there is no direct causal chain that I can perceive.

It makes no sense to me for a predetermined situation to arise where I get angry and then dispel that anger through awareness. Why bother causing me to anger in the first place if the outcome was for me to be caused to dispel the anger?. A waste of time surely?. A nil experience.
That's right!
__________________
"If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself. If you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest gift you have to give is that of your own self-transformation." Lao Tzu
oh_me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:17 PM   #3024
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post
Ok, so a causal chain including thoughts & events etc leads to a situation where I begin to get angry about something. All of a sudden awareness kicks in, I become aware of my welling anger and abate it. The awareness does not come from thoughts or ego, it is simply awareness and I can see no causal chain for it. It simply is. The awareness is instantaneous and is caused by my spiritual growth in an earlier part of my life, but there is no direct causal chain that I can perceive.
Of course there is a casual chain.

You even stated what is was.

I have highlighted it for you.

Growth implies a casual chain, does it not?


Quote:
It makes no sense to me for a predetermined situation to arise where I get angry and then dispel that anger through awareness. Why bother causing me to anger in the first place if the outcome was for me to be caused to dispel the anger?. A waste of time surely?. A nil experience.
Its impossible for it to make sense to anybody with a fundamental belief in free will.

You can see no sense in learning through experience?

Which is exactly what you are doing.

You are a sum total of your previous
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:19 PM   #3025
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by oh_me View Post
"Oh, look I've just ripped off humanity....thank you thank you pre-determinism'
Humanity cant be ripped off, it is a closed system.

Quote:
Funny, this would sound like you are promoting ego rather than what you think you are promoting. The ego must love the idea that it can accept its billions with no guilt.
Why do you keep putting money on a pedestal?

Do you realise you are doing it?

Quote:
Thank you Monsanto, Big Pharma and all. Mr big Pharma noticed the synchronicities on his way to his billions, it was meant to be, for me me me.
And again?
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:21 PM   #3026
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh_me View Post
I'm using it as an example. I am one of the ones that have no wealth, and don't relly want any. But nevertheless, it suits as an example to your dodgy theory.

And you managed to not focus on it, and give a sensible answer.
I am giving a sensible answer.

You are saying that 1% of humanity chose to have wealth and it seems unfair that everyone cant choose it.

I am saying that that is nonsense and if anything proves your theory wrong, for if we had free will, no doubt you would choose that wealth for yourself, the fact that you cant proves your theory 100% wrong.

You see it?
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:22 PM   #3027
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh_me View Post
Rubbish. It's the BBC that do repeats, not Life.
There are no repeats, it only happens once.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:25 PM   #3028
oh_me
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,897
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062065598]
Quote:

Humanity cant be ripped off, it is a closed system.



Why do you keep putting money on a pedestal?

Do you realise you are doing it?



And again?
do you realized you are not providing any real discourse here? So what if I've used the imbalance in the way humans run the economy? It just shows that the pre-destination idea is a farce, imo.

The only thing you have said is that humanity can't be ripped off, due to the system being a closed one. But are we closed in with this system?

So you believe in God's book of Life, as it says in the bible? That anyone found not to be in that book is dismissed to hell?

If I believed all this was meant to be before hand, I would not thank God actually. I'd write to him and ask him to pull his finger out of his rear and come up with a proper system.
__________________
"If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself. If you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest gift you have to give is that of your own self-transformation." Lao Tzu
oh_me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:26 PM   #3029
white light
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: B-lighty
Posts: 14,765
Likes: 3,484 (2,438 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062065595]

Quote:
Of course there is a casual chain.

You even stated what is was.

I have highlighted it for you.

Growth implies a casual chain, does it not?
I said "direct" causal chain. As in cause = effect = cause = effect.

I said there was a causal chain that led me to awareness, but the awareness itself doesn't seem to be bound by that.




Quote:
Its impossible for it to make sense to anybody with a fundamental belief in free will.

You can see no sense in learning through experience?

Which is exactly what you are doing.

You are a sum total of your previous
How many times do I have to repeat that I do not have a fundamental belief in free will, and I lived with the 100% percent belief in cause & effect for many years so I understand it well enough. I just feel that I've gone beyond it.
white light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:28 PM   #3030
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oh_me View Post
do you realized you are not providing any real discourse here? So what if I've used the imbalance in the way humans run the economy? It just shows that the pre-destination idea is a farce, imo.

The only thing you have said is that humanity can't be ripped off, due to the system being a closed one. But are we closed in with this system?

So you believe in God's book of Life, as it says in the bible? That anyone found not to be in that book is dismissed to hell?

If I believed all this was meant to be before hand, I would not thank God actually. I'd write to him and ask him to pull his finger out of his rear and come up with a proper system.
The only reason you think the system sucks is because you think the ego is the most important aspect, you see injustice in that 99% aren't wealthy and 1% are.

You are stuck in duality of right wrong, lucky not lucky.

With the perception of the evolution of the soul, that feeling of injustice disappears, once you realise that the system is not about us, our ego.

At all
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:31 PM   #3031
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post

I said "direct" causal chain. As in cause = effect = cause = effect.

I said there was a causal chain that led me to awareness, but the awareness itself doesn't seem to be bound by that.
Why not?

It just seems that you are becoming aware to your surroundings that is all.

You are just being subject to a different level of causes.

Quote:
How many times do I have to repeat that I do not have a fundamental belief in free will, and I lived with the 100% percent belief in cause & effect for many years so I understand it well enough. I just feel that I've gone beyond it.
And I am interested in how you think you have gone beyond it.

All I am seeing are different causes.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:37 PM   #3032
oh_me
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,897
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
I am giving a sensible answer.

You are saying that 1% of humanity chose to have wealth and it seems unfair that everyone cant choose it.

I am saying that that is nonsense and if anything proves your theory wrong, for if we had free will, no doubt you would choose that wealth for yourself, the fact that you cant proves your theory 100% wrong.

You see it?
No, because you are talking rubbish again.

Again, I am not motivated by wealth, but it does highlight the futility in what you are saying. By having free will, one is free to choose between generosity or greed, for example. Once greed becomes the motivation, it allows wealth to be preserved within a small group or bloodline. This bloodline was not pre-destined. It builds itself up and keeps going from the free will inside someone at that time.

People don't have to accept their 'lot', which is what you are saying. And that applies to more than just wealth.

I mean, sure , if one doesn't believe in a Creator, they have no choice but to believe in determinism. And if someone is a religious follower, they too have to believe God already chose them from the beginning.

I'm neither. I believe in a Creator, and also that we are not subject to the elements. We can incarnate here, and not achieve what we may have wished for before coming here. There are no determined guarantees.

so the example about the 1% just shows that your theory ends up becoming nonsense.
__________________
"If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself. If you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest gift you have to give is that of your own self-transformation." Lao Tzu
oh_me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:42 PM   #3033
white light
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: B-lighty
Posts: 14,765
Likes: 3,484 (2,438 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062065614]

Quote:
Why not?

It just seems that you are becoming aware to your surroundings that is all.

You are just being subject to a different level of causes.
Awareness is so much more than just being aware of your surroundings.

Quote:
And I am interested in how you think you have gone beyond it.

All I am seeing are different causes.
Not think, feel. Part intuition, and part living in awareness for 12 or so years now, and I'm not talking about low level synchronicity here. Of course I've used logical analysis of the experience in that time, but that's not enough.
white light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:46 PM   #3034
oh_me
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,897
Likes: 0 (0 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
The only reason you think the system sucks is because you think the ego is the most important aspect, you see injustice in that 99% aren't wealthy and 1% are.

You are stuck in duality of right wrong, lucky not lucky.

With the perception of the evolution of the soul, that feeling of injustice disappears, once you realise that the system is not about us, our ego.

At all
If the soul evolves to feeling that the injustice has disappeared, then you are talking of the ego, not the soul.

You're no different to my late and very Catholic mother. She was stuck in this
'God has sent me all these pains to show my faith for him' etc.

And the ptb would love humanity to accept their place, coz it isn't about the masses right, it's about scraping every dollar, owning every church, and everything else. What an amazing plan God had.

This 'natural evolution' toward the imbalance on this planet was never pre-determined, and hopefully we still have time to bring in more balance here.
__________________
"If you want to awaken all of humanity, then awaken all of yourself. If you want to eliminate the suffering in the world, then eliminate all that is dark and negative in yourself. Truly, the greatest gift you have to give is that of your own self-transformation." Lao Tzu
oh_me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:48 PM   #3035
pepsi78
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 104 (89 Posts)
Default

Sand warrior, you are responsible for manipulation, murderer, abuse and all the heavy stuff. You have to pay for them, once you do you are free to start over or not.

You can only hurt others in self defence if they aggressed you in a phisical manner, the rest you are responsible for.

Everyone will be held accountable.

You didin't think you would get off the hook for serious crimes like manipulation that ended in serious damage did you, or control to gain profit over others by tyranny.

From spirit to human, all got to pay.

What you are excused from is small stuff, you can say what you want, speak your mind, state your opinion and so on, once you have gone over the verbal limit and it's not in self defence or retribution you got to pay.

All is judged from spirit to human flesh.

And the universe spoke.


Big mama is upset, next on her lunch menu is Satan.
No one gets away from big mamma.

Fair, do shit =pay.
__________________
Pfffffffffffffffttttttt
pepsi78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:57 PM   #3036
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by oh_me View Post
No, because you are talking rubbish again.
How can you say I am talking rubbish?

You cannot even give me one example of the thing you have spent so long telling me you have.

Seems rather silly to me.

Quote:
Again, I am not motivated by wealth, but it does highlight the futility in what you are saying. By having free will, one is free to choose between generosity or greed, for example. Once greed becomes the motivation, it allows wealth to be preserved within a small group or bloodline. This bloodline was not pre-destined. It builds itself up and keeps going from the free will inside someone at that time.
No, In your system we are all free to choose what we want,

Free will implies that we can do whatever we want, we cant, we are bound by fundamental laws.

Including your ego.

Quote:
People don't have to accept their 'lot', which is what you are saying. And that applies to more than just wealth.
They do have to accept their lot.


Quote:
I mean, sure , if one doesn't believe in a Creator, they have no choice but to believe in determinism. And if someone is a religious follower, they too have to believe God already chose them from the beginning.
So either way you have to believe in determinism

Quote:
I'm neither. I believe in a Creator, and also that we are not subject to the elements. We can incarnate here, and not achieve what we may have wished for before coming here. There are no determined guarantees.
Sounds totally illogical to me.

And religious, albeit an eastern religion.

Sounds like karma.

Quote:
so the example about the 1% just shows that your theory ends up becoming nonsense.
Quite the opposite.

Under your system it would be directly the opposite 99% wealthy and 1% poor.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 02:59 PM   #3037
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by white light View Post

Awareness is so much more than just being aware of your surroundings.
Depends how you perceive surroundings,

Myself, my surrounding is absolutely everything, not just what my five senses can sense.


Quote:
Not think, feel. Part intuition, and part living in awareness for 12 or so years now, and I'm not talking about low level synchronicity here. Of course I've used logical analysis of the experience in that time, but that's not enough.
Feel, sense, intuition, all caused.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 03:02 PM   #3038
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by oh_me View Post
If the soul evolves to feeling that the injustice has disappeared, then you are talking of the ego, not the soul.
Correct, the ego's feeling of injustice and control disappears.

Quote:
You're no different to my late and very Catholic mother. She was stuck in this
'God has sent me all these pains to show my faith for him' etc.
I am nothing like her.

Quote:
And the ptb would love humanity to accept their place, coz it isn't about the masses right, it's about scraping every dollar, owning every church, and everything else. What an amazing plan God had.
Its even better than that.

TPTB have convinced us that its all our fault.

And they have used the illusion of free will to do it.

Quote:
This 'natural evolution' toward the imbalance on this planet was never pre-determined, and hopefully we still have time to bring in more balance here.
Of course it was,

everything is rhythm and polarity and balance.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 03:03 PM   #3039
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepsi78 View Post
Sand warrior, you are responsible for manipulation, murderer, abuse and all the heavy stuff. You have to pay for them, once you do you are free to start over or not.

You can only hurt others in self defence if they aggressed you in a phisical manner, the rest you are responsible for.

Everyone will be held accountable.

You didin't think you would get off the hook for serious crimes like manipulation that ended in serious damage did you, or control to gain profit over others by tyranny.

From spirit to human, all got to pay.

What you are excused from is small stuff, you can say what you want, speak your mind, state your opinion and so on, once you have gone over the verbal limit and it's not in self defence or retribution you got to pay.

All is judged from spirit to human flesh.

And the universe spoke.


Big mama is upset, next on her lunch menu is Satan.
No one gets away from big mamma.

Fair, do shit =pay.
I don't agree.

Sounds like heaven and hell, guilt and punishment to me,

You have fell for it hook line and sinker.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-04-2014, 03:04 PM   #3040
white light
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: B-lighty
Posts: 14,765
Likes: 3,484 (2,438 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062065662]
Quote:



Feel, sense, intuition, all caused.

Ok yes, I didn't really want to put that, I wanted to put "know". But I don't know anything, so what else could I put. Awareness just is. There are no adjectives available.
white light is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:52 PM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.