Go Back   David Icke's Official Forums > Main Forums > General Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 17-03-2014, 06:02 PM   #2001
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanx View Post
So what would you say to, say an alcoholic or drug addict?

"Sorry, lads, but tough luck, that's just the way it is. You are totally powerless to change......so just enjoy it until your terrible death....and then you will be free??
Of course not,

Ridding yourself of the belief in free will frees the path up for change.

It allows you a way out of anger and grief, of hatred and the need for vengeance, the main reasons people become addicts in the first place.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:05 PM   #2002
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
Can I just focus on this for now?

It would seem that you have a very "religious" view of the soul, one person one soul.

Is that correct?
No, the exact opposite ...that's why I hate using that term.

I only use it on this thread because you keep referring to the soul.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:11 PM   #2003
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
Of course not,

Ridding yourself of the belief in free will frees the path up for change.

It allows you a way out of anger and grief, of hatred and the need for vengeance, the main reasons people become addicts in the first place.
But you are telling people they have no free will to change.

So I'm interested in hearing what you would tell an alcoholic or drug addict?

That they will only have freewill to change once they are dead and out of this dimension?

Last edited by seanx; 17-03-2014 at 06:12 PM.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:15 PM   #2004
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanx View Post
No, the exact opposite ...that's why I hate using that term.

I only use it on this thread because you keep referring to the soul.
I don't think I have any ownership over the soul/infinite consciousness, whatever you want to call it.

I think I am a temporary construct, with absolutely no intrinsic importance, apart from letting the soul/infinite consciousness experience itself.

That is my soul purpose.

You appear to me to give yourself importance, as if seanx is the most important aspect, and it is actually you that will live on forever.

You wont, seanx, the ego will die with your body, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:17 PM   #2005
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanx View Post
But you are telling people they have no free will to change.

So I'm interested in hearing what you would tell an alcoholic or drug addict?

That they will only have freewill to change once they are dead and out of this dimension?
I would find out why they had internal anger, what made them become an addict and I would try and convince them that whatever happened to them was never personal, and whoever hurt them was hurting exactly proportional to the hurt they made them feel, because they themselves held onto negative feelings that the person who hurt them could have acted in another way.

I would convince them that they couldn't and they could end the pain, right there, right now.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:43 PM   #2006
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
I don't think I have any ownership over the soul/infinite consciousness, whatever you want to call it.

I think I am a temporary construct, with absolutely no intrinsic importance, apart from letting the soul/infinite consciousness experience itself.

That is my soul purpose.

You appear to me to give yourself importance, as if seanx is the most important aspect, and it is actually you that will live on forever.

You wont, seanx, the ego will die with your body, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
If you want to start personal abuse again, then bring it on......but why not try to debate the issue.

Again, you CREATE A separation between you, this temporary thing and your 'soul'.

And of course this is the cause of all your problems.

Why don't you read my last post about this which you ignored because it doesn't fit in with your theory.

I said WE ARE NOT THIS EGO-SELF ........but the field of CONSCIOUSNESS that observes and expresses itself
through this form.



How many times need this be repeated until you grasp it.

And as..... Consciousness or awareness , we cannot separate from it.....it is US......it is the 'thing' that sees through our eyes, that
hears through our ears, that smells through our nose......

We are it...........there is no separation........

As the famous paradox of mysticism says.....

The thing that you are looking for is the thing that has been looking all along.

Last edited by seanx; 17-03-2014 at 06:44 PM.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:48 PM   #2007
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
I would find out why they had internal anger, what made them become an addict and I would try and convince them that whatever happened to them was never personal, and whoever hurt them was hurting exactly proportional to the hurt they made them feel, because they themselves held onto negative feelings that the person who hurt them could have acted in another way.

I would convince them that they couldn't and they could end the pain, right there, right now.
But why tell them all these things .....when they have no freewill to change. When you believe they have no choice, no freewill in the matter.

Why are you being dishonest to them by not telling them what you really believe ?

Last edited by seanx; 17-03-2014 at 06:50 PM.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:55 PM   #2008
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanx View Post
If you want to start personal abuse again, then bring it on......but why not try to debate the issue.

Again, you CREATE A separation between you, this temporary thing and your 'soul'.

And of course this is the cause of all your problems.

Why don't you read my last post about this which you ignored because it doesn't fit in with your theory.

I said WE ARE NOT THIS EGO-SELF ........but the field of CONSCIOUSNESS that observes and expresses itself
through this form.
Personal abuse? Where?

I am just saying the ego entity, seanx, is temporal and dies with your physical shell, just as mine will. No personal abuse intended nor implied.

I have been saying all through this thread that we aren't this ego self, it is vital to my point of view, how could you have possibly missed it?

Quote:
How many times need this be repeated until you grasp it.
Again, I have made this point from the very beginning, the question should be how have YOU missed it?

Quote:
And as..... Consciousness or awareness , we cannot separate from it.....it is US......it is the 'thing' that sees through our eyes, that
hears through our ears, that smells through our nose......
It experiences through us yes, I have said this also from the very beginning.

Quote:
We are it...........there is no separation........

This is where I disagree, the ego has convinced you that you are it, that seanx is it. You truly believe, that you are the most important thing in this universe.

If you don't, how do you separate your ego from infinite consciousness?

Quote:
As the famous paradox of mysticism says.....

The thing that you are looking for is the thing that has been looking all along
.

The answer definitely lies within.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.

Last edited by sandwarrior; 17-03-2014 at 06:55 PM.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 06:57 PM   #2009
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanx View Post
But why tell them all these things .....when they have no freewill to change. When you believe they have no choice, no freewill in the matter.
Because I can be the cause of their change of perception.

Everyone has to be caused to change.

Quote:
Why are you being dishonest to them by not telling them what you really believe ?
I am telling them 100% what I believe in total honesty.

Why do you see deception everywhere?
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 07:12 PM   #2010
elshaper
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pandæmonium
Posts: 25,965
Likes: 5,575 (3,762 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanx View Post
If you want to start personal abuse again, then bring it on......but why not try to debate the issue.

Again, you CREATE A separation between you, this temporary thing and your 'soul'.
And of course this is the cause of all your problems.

Why don't you read my last post about this which you ignored because it doesn't fit in with your theory.

I said WE ARE NOT THIS EGO-SELF ........but the field of CONSCIOUSNESS that observes and expresses itself
through this form.



How many times need this be repeated until you grasp it.

And as..... Consciousness or awareness , we cannot separate from it.....it is US......it is the 'thing' that sees through our eyes, that
hears through our ears, that smells through our nose......

We are it...........there is no separation........

As the famous paradox of mysticism says.....

The thing that you are looking for is the thing that has been looking all along.
This is what I've been saying too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
I never said you could, I don't believe in separation, remember?

I believe the soul becomes unconscious when it incarnates and will become fully conscious, without a need to incarnate, once it evolves fully through this physical experience.

Are there soulless Humans? Maybe... I am not sure. Is a psychopath a soulless human?



I do, very often.

I class the synchronicity's that run my life as glimpses to the total interconnectedness of everything and glimpses of my higher self, I am sure of it
While sandwarrior says there is no separation, he is separating the soul with the ego conscious. It's not about personal importance, we are only talking about individuals otherwise who else should we talk about? Russell Brand?
Our soul is always with us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
I would find out why they had internal anger, what made them become an addict and I would try and convince them that whatever happened to them was never personal, and whoever hurt them was hurting exactly proportional to the hurt they made them feel, because they themselves held onto negative feelings that the person who hurt them could have acted in another way.

I would convince them that they couldn't and they could end the pain, right there, right now.
This choice 'they could end the pain' is called free will.
According to your fate theory, addicts don't have free will to change their life. Only if their fate permits it. As if it's some kind of god that grant them the permission. That's because you think soul is a separate thing.
If you say to addicts that they could end their pain, you are being deceitful because they can't according to your theory. So which is it!?
elshaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 07:15 PM   #2011
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
This is what I've been saying too.

While sandwarrior says there is no separation, he is separating the soul with the ego conscious. It's not about personal importance, we are only talking about individuals otherwise who else should we talk about? Russell Brand?
Our soul is always with us.
I will ask you the same question:

Do you believe we each only have one soul.


Quote:
This choice 'they could end the pain' is called free will.
According to your fate theory, addicts don't have free will to change their life. Only if their fate permits it. As if it's some kind of god that grant them the permission. That's because you think soul is a separate thing.
If you say to addicts that they could end their pain, you are being deceitful because they can't according to your theory. So which is it!?
You just don't understand the theory, at all.

Put some thought into what I am saying about how nothing can ever be personal if we accept that we don't have free will.
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 07:18 PM   #2012
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elshaper View Post

This is what I've been saying too.
Concerning the accusation over separation, to yourself and seanx.

What happens to your ego entity when your physical shell dies?

Is your soul and your ego entity still one?

If so, how?
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.

Last edited by sandwarrior; 17-03-2014 at 07:21 PM.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 07:21 PM   #2013
takhisis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 756
Likes: 23 (14 Posts)
Default

Nice thread and interesting theory
takhisis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 07:22 PM   #2014
sandwarrior
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The Desert
Posts: 5,650
Likes: 5 (4 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by takhisis View Post
Nice thread and interesting theory
Thank you
__________________
Eating a lamb for the way it tastes is exactly the same as eating a songbird for the way it sounds.

Abhorrent.


Enlightenment is: Absolute co-operation with the inevitable.
sandwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 08:12 PM   #2015
elshaper
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pandæmonium
Posts: 25,965
Likes: 5,575 (3,762 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
Concerning the accusation over separation, to yourself and seanx.

What happens to your ego entity when your physical shell dies?

Is your soul and your ego entity still one?

If so, how?
Soul lives, it's eternal you.
Ego is just a character you acuire for this life. If you believe in reincarnation, you will get another ego, slightly different. But soul will always be the same.

Nothing to do with accusation.
I was merely pointing out your inconsistancy.
elshaper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 10:40 PM   #2016
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062031236]
Quote:





This is where I disagree, the ego has convinced you that you are it, that seanx is it. You truly believe, that you are the most important thing in this universe.

If you don't, how do you separate your ego from infinite consciousness?


.

The answer definitely lies within.
That sentence show me you have NO IDEA what we are really talking about.

I've said before - it's pointless holding these debates with you because you have zero knowledge of these ideas that Icke talks about in his books.

Why not read a few and find out what is meant by Infinite consciousness, the ego i.e , the body/mind suit and how it decodes reality.

I couldn't be assed having to explain them to you.......


Otherwise you'll keep on misrepresenting my position and writing complete bollocks like that I consider ego to be the most important force.

That's an insult considering what has been posted to you so far.

Last edited by seanx; 17-03-2014 at 10:40 PM.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 10:49 PM   #2017
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062031237]
Quote:

Because I can be the cause of their change of perception.

?

But why bother doing that when you believe the person has absolutely no freewill or choice to change.

ARE you saying that if you change their perception, then they will have some freewill or a choice to change???

Otherwise you are being totally dishonest to that person.


Quote:

I am telling them 100% what I believe in total honesty.
But you are not.

You believe the alcoholic has no freewill, no choice to change.

So why are you refusing to tell him that truth.

Again, I asked what would you say to an alcoholic?



Quote:
Why do you see deception everywhere
So why are you refusing to tell the alcoholic the truth of your beliefs?

That, according to you he is de facto powerless and totally at the mercy of other forces - and has no choice in the
matter of whether he can stop drinking or not.

Last edited by seanx; 17-03-2014 at 10:50 PM.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 10:53 PM   #2018
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elshaper View Post
This is what I've been saying too.

While sandwarrior says there is no separation, he is separating the soul with the ego conscious. It's not about personal importance, we are only talking about individuals otherwise who else should we talk about? Russell Brand?
Our soul is always with us.


This choice 'they could end the pain' is called free will.

According to your fate theory, addicts don't have free will to change their life. Only if their fate permits it. As if it's some kind of god that grant them the permission. That's because you think soul is a separate thing.
If you say to addicts that they could end their pain, you are being deceitful because they can't according to your theory. So which is it
!?


That too is how I see mr Sandwarrior 's theory...........it don't make sense to me.

Last edited by seanx; 17-03-2014 at 10:54 PM.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 11:02 PM   #2019
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

[QUOTE=sandwarrior;1062031260]
Quote:

I will ask you the same question:

Do you believe we each only have one soul.




You just don't understand the theory, at all.

Put some thought into what I am saying about how nothing can ever be personal if we accept that we don't have free will.
That's not an answer.........sounds more like you can't explain the conflict here in your ideas.



Quote:
Do you believe we each only have one soul.
Soul???

What is a soul, Mr sandwarrior?

IMP, we are INFINITE CONSCIOUSNES.....and that is all that is.

We ARE that Consciousness now, always have been, and always will be.

And Infinite Consciousness CAN be the one and the many.......the great paradox or mystery of being.

The One is ONE ....yet can express and experience itself as the MANY in an infinity of forms ........for all eternity.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-03-2014, 11:04 PM   #2020
seanx
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 68 (42 Posts)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwarrior View Post
Concerning the accusation over separation, to yourself and seanx.

What happens to your ego entity when your physical shell dies?

Is your soul and your ego entity still one?

If so, how?
my ego entity doesn't exist now.....in any real sense..........so why would it exist after death.

Last edited by seanx; 17-03-2014 at 11:05 PM.
seanx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:00 AM.


Shoutbox provided by vBShout (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.