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Old 22-09-2017, 03:10 PM   #21
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Theresa May will be gone soon.
I thought her speech could've been written by Corbyn's Labour. It sounded very much like their proposals.

I have to say (and it'll probably be unpopular on here), I thought it was a pretty sensible, well-rounded speech. Probably better than shouting about the EU not getting a penny out of us and that no deal was better than a bad deal.
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Old 22-09-2017, 03:22 PM   #22
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But thats the whole point, the government the EU and all the snowflakes wont accept it.
The eu has accepted it.

Its only tony blair, that goes round saying it cannot be so.
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Old 22-09-2017, 03:49 PM   #23
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The eu has accepted it.

Its only tony blair, that goes round saying it cannot be so.
no the EU is stalling the process in order to extort a severance settlement which the press is calling a divorce bill

They are dragging this out to make us continue to pay money into the EU when we should be leaving NOW without paying them a penny
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Old 22-09-2017, 09:58 PM   #24
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I thought the whole EU referendum thing was devised purely to divide people, nothing more nothing less.
I know one Antifa nutter, everyone else I know isn't fussed or wants to leave! That probably isn't the most scientific poll conducted, but it's considerably more accurate than the Independents will ever be!
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Old 22-09-2017, 10:17 PM   #25
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I thought the whole EU referendum thing was devised purely to divide people, nothing more nothing less.
well it gives the globalists a bead on where public opinion is at on this issue

now they know how much of the vote they have to win over, deceive, scare or silence in order to win a future referendum

they are dragging their heels on this perhaps with a view to having another referendum in a year or two once they have softened us up with even more propaganda and project fear
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Old 22-09-2017, 10:33 PM   #26
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I agree the referendum was a victory however what do we do now?
It looks like the ruling class are going to go against the will of the pople who voted out. as far as i can see we have three choices, we can try to put somone in power who will do what the majoraty of the people want. how many times have we tried that only to be disapointed (look at trump in the US and before him obama) We can try passive civil disobediance, we refuse to pay taxes, we block and disrupt (in a non voloent way) government inferstructure. (this could work if enough people in the country commit to it which is sadly unlikely) or and this is the big one, we take the government and its subsiduaries down by force. (this is going to mean loss of life on both sides )

Personaly I favour option two however the ruling class need to know we have option three in reserve just in case.
Do THIS: secure PR: we need to be liberated from the FPTP two party straight jacket so new parties can flower and be effective at gaining MP's and representing new policies:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/why-proportional-14390522

Why Proportional Representation for UK Parliamentary Elections MATTERS: which is why your going to get off your bum and do something to support it! Debate 30th October...

Hello all.

"Petitions can't change anything" people say: "they never listen" they opine. And when people look at it that way, who can be surprised? No secret risk of putting their name on a signature and adding their democratic power, nope, nothing can be done, wasting your time, tucked up safe in bed at night.. apart from the nightmares...

Well enough of that, because sometimes, if the petition is well aimed and well written enough, if people catch onto the cause with enough passion, sometimes a petition CAN go the whole distance, and we get a result.

THAT just happened with THIS petition: 

"To make votes matter, adopt propotional representation for UK General Elections":

https://petition.parliament.co.uk/ar...titions/168657

The Petition reads: 

"The vast majority wants PR. Our FPTP voting system makes Parliament unrepresentative. One party got 37% of the vote and 51% of seats, while 3 parties got 24% of the vote but share 1.5% of seats. FPTP violates the democratic principle of majority rule and causes problems like costly policy reversals. 

The UK has never had a say on PR. As David Cameron himself said, the AV Referendum was on a system that is often less proportional than FPTP, so the rejection of AV could not possibly be a rejection of PR. In fact, so few voters wanted either system on offer that the turnout was just 42%.

There are tried and tested PR systems that keep the constituency link. They would make every vote matter equally, rather than allowing a minority of swing voters in a few marginal seats to pick the government."

The petition ran for six months and 103, 495 verified voters signed it.

NOW:

On 30th October 2017: Parliament WILL debate it!:

Get in! Petition win!  

"Dear John White,
Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – 
“To make votes matter, adopt Proportional Representation for UK General Elections”.

The debate is scheduled for 30 October 2017.
Once the debate has happened, we’ll email you a video and transcript.
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament"

So the question now, you horrible lot, yes you, reading this now: what are you going to do about it? And why should you?

FIRSTLY: we have to establish where we are right now. We just had a General Election 3 months ago, and 15 months before that, and neither have delivered a clear decisive government to take the country forward, indeed, the 2nd election this year has made the confusion and lack of direction worse. In fact its now 4 elections ago, 2005, that First Past the Post (FPTP), our current system, delivered a Government with a working majority for one party. 

This was ALWAY lauded as the systems main benefit: It delivered "Strong" government.

That may have been true, in the days of Tories vs Whigs, or Tories vs Labour throughout the 20th century, but it only works when politics is a binary contest between two ascendant parties.

People don't want monolithic politics in a more complex nuanced world, they want to make politics choices that best expresses them.
But FPTP deliberately repress's this: 

In FPTP, each constituency is its own contest: but only the candidate with the most votes wins. The more candidates there are in the contest, the lower the total number of votes available to the actual winner, and its common for MP's to be elected on LESS than 50% of the votes cast by the electors. 

This year, the Tories won every seat in Cornwall: but 55% of the Cornish did NOT vote for them, and this is repeated across the land.

Proportional Representation (PR) says that EVERY single vote counts, and will be part of the final make up of parliament

FPTP says every vote not cast for winner, counts for nothing: nothing at all.

*****

It has suited the Tory party in particular to hold onto FPTP: whenever in power both parties have "gamed" electoral boundaries to maximise their chances of gaining seats, and the Tories have managed this somewhat better, and for many years, the demographics meant they had the game stacked very well, in those years they couldn't lose.

The simple electoral fact is, if every election since WWII had been by PR, 15 out of 16 Parliaments would have been liberal or left co-alitions, not Tory at all. And of course Tory central office knows this.

BUT:

These are not the 1980's anymore. Something remarkable happened to the Tories this year:

The machine of First Past the Post refused to work!

Its NOT that not enough people voted Tory in 2017:

For it was the largest Tory vote EVER!

But it IS that the demographics have shifted so much, yes because of the mass Immigration the Tories embraced for short term profits, that the Tories have been driven out of urban marginal ("white flight"...) that they can NO LONGER win target seats!

The Tory party has BROKEN first past the post!

Whatever peoples misgivings: we need an electoral system that WORKS
We need an Electoral system where EVERY vote counts.

Where new parties and new ideas have a fair chance to gain support for their arguments and representation for their supporters.

And if that means, politicians have to listen to each other and work together in mutual interest for the common good:

Well that's how it's going to have to be!

This debate is a VITAL and GOLDEN opportunity.

Write now to your MP, tell them it matters to you that they vote FOR PR, for the good of the country, to restore democratic engagement and start a new chapter for Brexit Britain, representing ALL the people, NOT just the flukey few: those who happen to think the "right way" when they live in the "right place" so electoral blind luck happens to have their opinion represented...
Think of the good it would do for this country, to have the potency of our democracy enhanced and empowered so that voting TRULY mattered in people's lives?

Please use "write to them" to find and write to your MP BEFORE this debate, and kindly DO share to help get this message spread. We have a chance to do something, with a few clicks of a mouse. Won't you do your bit?

FIND YOUR MP HERE:

https://www.writetothem.com/

TEXT FOR YOU TO USE, OR WRITE YOUR OWN

Dear ***** ***** Member of Parliament

I write to ask you, please support the vote FOR PR on October 30th. 
We must have free elections and they must also be fair elections, and that means everyone's vote must count!

Please vote FOR PR: for a Better Britain!

Yours Sincerely

*your* *name*, Constituent. 

*****

Regards to all,

John White
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Old 23-09-2017, 04:20 AM   #27
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I alwayse remember in business studies at school we had a day trip to a marketing company in shefield, I think they where called camel marketing but it was over 20 years ago. and the thing that sticks in my mind about the experiance was being told that questionairs could be writen in a way to get the result from the questionair that you disire.

It's nothing new poles and the like have been manipulated for years.
I have only once in my life been asked to participate in a phone survey the subject was politics. I informed the person asking the questions that I consented to answer the questions but reserved the right to stop at any time if I was uncomfortable with the subject matter. Upon hearing the first question I sensed that it was ambiguous and that the answer could be manipulated in any way they wanted . The second question I refused to answer and after being asked the third I informed him that I could see where this was going and that I was stopping the conversation then and there.
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Old 23-09-2017, 10:47 AM   #28
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Theresa May's "Brexit Betrayl":

Now I might suprise people here.

I can tell people are very angry about it, but personally, I'm calm as a Hindu Cow. We are stuck with having to poke the politicians along and they are a feet dragging bunch, belligerent when not incompetent.

I never expected them to sort Brexit out: its quite beyond them!

What I do expect is for actual realpolitic, especially the markets, to grab Brexit with all they've got and MAKE IT work: once the politicians get out of the way!

I dont care one jot what May said today. IF we got a decent trade arraingment, then 20-40 billion against our 6 trillion GDP, we can wear it. As long as the trajectory is irrestistably headed out the door, the politicians are really quite irrelevant.

And another thing:

Nothing May said means a damn thing!

Even assuming the talks continue as a result of her offer, even assuming some sort of deal gets settled as a proposal by the UK and the EU negotiation team, THEN it has to get past the 27 member state Vetos, and win a majority, in the European Parliament, with the frothing nutter Verhofstadt swearing blind he will murder it if no-one else will. And only if it got past all that, would it come to our Parliament: and just as Gina Miller's meddling was designed to give Remain conspiractors a chance to stop Brexit: that vote will ALSO be a chance for Parliament to kill the deal. You see it doesn't matter what they do... We voted to Leave and that's how it is... the gravity of the Demos WILL make Brexit happen...

Talk of "transitional periods" etc are also meaningless: if the deal cannot be approved there can be no transitional period! There can be no divorce payments!

So, sure, I am absolutely NOT going to tell people not to stand up vocally for Brexit with all they have got: that is ALWAYS a good idea!

But I'm not going to overreact to what will probably turn out to be historically irrelvant...

EXCEPT:

For this peice of news:

NIGEL IS COMING BACK!

Game on!

Just KBO and keep calm

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...el-farage-ukip
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Old 23-09-2017, 04:11 PM   #29
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I used to think that the elite was against Brexit and Donald Trump as US President...

That was before I learned that Cambridge Analytica (with the cooporation of Breitbart conspiracy theorist and Trump supporter Steve Bannon) arranged these: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...cked-democracy

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Old 23-09-2017, 04:44 PM   #30
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How to make the EU seem like eutopia? Line it up next to Farages "The migrants are to blame for the squirrels turning grey" Britain.
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Old 23-09-2017, 04:44 PM   #31
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I used to think that the elite was against Brexit and Donald Trump as US President...

That was before I learned that Cambridge Analytica (with the cooporation of Breitbart conspiracy theorist and Trump supporter Steve Bannon) arranged these: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...cked-democracy
"the elite" are not monolithic.

that is the mistake many people make. There are different factions, groups, and interests.

Very often they agree on things, and at times they disagree.

Factions of the elite back both "brexit" and "remain"

In the same way factions of the elites back Trump and some oppose him.

Things are not so black and white.

WHat is important, and you appear to have pointed it out, is that THE SAME elite factions behind Trump are the exact same elites behind Brexit. This is not a theory. It is a fact. It is the far right fascist forces which include the rabid Zionist Netanyahu faction which are anti-EU.

I started a thread, a look at some of the elite factions and interests who are anti EU and pro Brexit.

https://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=318939

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Old 23-09-2017, 06:00 PM   #32
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So , the "elites" who are behind Brexit are now stalling Brexit
because.......

Anywho. Occam says there was a vote and the result was very close.

Tarquin Sebastian and Humphrey voted remain because they are "im all right Jack"

And Dave Winston and Muddassar voted leave cos they are fed up with being shafted

The "left" who claim to support Winston Muddassar but not so much Dave have spat the dummy out however Winston and Muddassar know that the "left" will shaft them sooner or
later, and as such give not one shiny shyte about left wingers peddling their BS politics.

The same snake oil salesmen are now claiming that Claude Juncker has their best interest at large.
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Old 23-09-2017, 09:06 PM   #33
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The EU will get around Brexit by moving closer to the EU super state, the one that Nick Clegg (ex UK deputy PM) said wouldn't ever happen, and was never planned. Of course he is a lying bastard like all politicians.

Project fear has been in full force since the brexit vote, and now the MSM are going into over drive about how great the EU is, and how the world will end if we leave.

Theresa May has given herself 2 more years to sort it out, but she won't be PM in 2 years, and the conservatives won't be in power either.

That's how it works. They will keep on delaying it, and then Labour will get voted in, and they will bin brexit. The conservatives save face, and Labour save the day.

All these politicians are crooks and in it on the same side. People need to remember that and not fall for the red V blue lies.
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Old 23-09-2017, 09:46 PM   #34
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I used to think that the elite was against Brexit and Donald Trump as US President...

That was before I learned that Cambridge Analytica (with the cooporation of Breitbart conspiracy theorist and Trump supporter Steve Bannon) arranged these: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...cked-democracy
$$$, a Tech Firm with innovative software, and a nice little earner. Have no doubt, there will never be a major US election again where psychometric profiling is not used to individually target not just swing states, but swing voters on the 1 to 1 level.

Yes the Guardian is sore that the right innovated to gain advantage, but did they complain in 1992 when Bill Clinton took the Presidency using the new techniques of focus groups to hone policies to connect with peoples concerns? Did they hell!

"oooo those sneaky Russians and oooo those right wingers being all clever, SO UNFAIR!"

Trump might be many things. But did you really think he wouldn't use every edge he could get in this fight? However Trump didn't create that technology, nor was it created for him: change: progress: towards emergence: whether we want it or not!

Sadly, as much as I have a soft spot for Trump, his manifesto won't be nearly adequate against whats coming.

We will be tested as few can even imagine right now... how Trump won the election is the least thing to be worried about: no laws broken here!
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Old 23-09-2017, 10:09 PM   #35
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Do they fuck. They'd be shitbags in that case.

What we have here is a referendum based on a dead cert to stay, see ya Dave. Now we have an opportunist, (Theresa, I was remain cos that was the way to go but now brexit means brexit, but it doesnt cos I'm shitting myself) trying to negotiate a deal that increasingly looks like being in the EU.
The EU (not the people of the EU) are going full on to make this a punishment for trying to leave their corrupt, unnaccountable and seriously failed club (it is just a club isn't it Tony?).
Fuck the EU, fuck Eddie Izzard and all those remain ponces, fuck the Tories for taking us in, fuck the Tories for fucking up the exit, fuck labour and the lib dems for loving the EU, fuck Corbyn for hating it but using it as a power grab, fuck Obama with his opinion (yeah, you're country had it's own problems to sort out), fuck Ryan Air and all those companies with their threats to the UK (Ryan Air, where are you're pilots going on holiday this year?), fuck the central banks, Moodys and Standard and Poors (how many of you cunts are standard or poor?), fuck the socialist pigs running the EU, you think we don't know what you're allegiance was when you were a young, dumb student? And fuck every single person who is scared by the bullshit you're told by the media, especially the "truthers", shame on you especially.
If you need to buy goods, buy them. If you have goods to sell then they should be of a quality to sell. But somehow you need to be a member of some half arsed Union to do it. Fuck that.

And for the road, if you've read this, Fuck you too if you don't agree.
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Old 23-09-2017, 10:14 PM   #36
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I used to think that the elite was against Brexit and Donald Trump as US President...

That was before I learned that Cambridge Analytica (with the cooporation of Breitbart conspiracy theorist and Trump supporter Steve Bannon) arranged these: https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...cked-democracy
sour grapes.

the government and media was incredibly biased to the remainers throughout the campaign.

to make matters worse, incompetents like Boris Johnson were made to head or hijack Vote Leave.

very few people expected Brexit victory.

trying to claim the referendum was undermined now is clutching at bullshit caked straws. should have spoken up at the time.
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Old 24-09-2017, 03:02 PM   #37
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I forgot that all of the highly intelligent members of David Icke Forums are above being fooled by anybody.
I admit that I was fooled into believing that the elite was against the Brexit and Donald Trump for president.

Maybe I should walk around with my cell phone all day, to make it easier for Big Brother to watch me.
Or maybe I should watch the telescreen every day (I threw my TV out more than 10 years ago).
Maybe I'm the only one that's dumb enough to be fooled, but then again I sometimes read the deranged stories on the internet that are even more ridiculous than the fake news of the mainstream media.
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Old 24-09-2017, 03:22 PM   #38
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I forgot that all of the highly intelligent members of David Icke Forums are above being fooled by anybody.
I admit that I was fooled into believing that the elite was against the Brexit and Donald Trump for president.
They were but you don't think that Plan B doesn't exist? What about Plans C, D and E?

The battle of good versus evil is ongoing.

If you are constantly reinterpreting history just because you find the present hasn't turned out quite as you expected then perhaps the problem was not your analysis but your unrealistic expectations.
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Old 24-09-2017, 03:52 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by st jimmy View Post
I forgot that all of the highly intelligent members of David Icke Forums are above being fooled by anybody.
I admit that I was fooled into believing that the elite was against the Brexit and Donald Trump for president.

Maybe I should walk around with my cell phone all day, to make it easier for Big Brother to watch me.
Or maybe I should watch the telescreen every day (I threw my TV out more than 10 years ago).
Maybe I'm the only one that's dumb enough to be fooled, but then again I sometimes read the deranged stories on the internet that are even more ridiculous than the fake news of the mainstream media.
The Great Work Of Ages has had MANY setbacks down through the centuries.

It is the nature of the conspiracy to morph adapt and come at us another way.

It is, ultimately, not that the Illuminated Ones have 1000 ways to win that counts.

It is that NONE of them are capable of conquering Consciousness.

So, both Brexit, and Trump, were resistance against the Agenda, push back, forcing space for debate, forcing issues onto the public stage, and both ARE working in that regard, but neither not being in a trade club or putting one man behind a desk are SOLUTIONS to the worlds problems.

They are steps on the way.

The struggle NEVER ends:

The responsibility of awakening is to put ones shoulder to that task

Every day of our lives....

Or not...

We can disengage. Chill out. Do our own thing.

But if we refuse to shape the world, we can have no complaints of the shape others chose to make of it for us...

As Bill Hicks said:

It's just a choice...
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Old 24-09-2017, 05:12 PM   #40
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Clegg and his party were completely outmanuevred by the Conservatives in the coalition and anything he and the current leader says consequently about Brexit and the EU is designed purely to regaining political presence in Westminster.


If the lady who does body language analysis Youtube videos did one on Vince Cable she'd probably put him in the "not alive" category.
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